High Variance - Understanding it - Loving it.

[hippo925]

hi all,

because of some banking issues, i haven't been able to deposit at 3dice for a week (prepaid visa problem.) been stuck playing at villento, got tired of 500+ spins without bonuses over and over again(shouldn't that be statistically rare on slots like avalon? i know, i know, beating a dead horse) so i closed my account. i only have open accounts at 3dice and Inet now(only deposited once for signup bonus, rtg slots still tight, i see).

so enzo gives me a no wr bonus gift without a deposit for being patient(didn't expect that) and i built it up to $450 !!! will i cash out? maybe a little later just to see how long checks take, but right now it's way too much fun = )

so i don't get it.... 3dice has "high variance" which at first seemed hard to me, but now when comparing to mg, i actually get more bonuses that pay much, much better (supersuits is way fun, if you can get retriggers) i only got one bonus that was less than 60x, most are 100x or much more.

i think the biggest difference with the slots at 3dice is that over time you will lose just like anywhere else, but at anytime you can win more than you started with. with mg, you start with 200, it goes down to 150, you get a bonus that pushes you to 250, than down to 120, than a bonus that pays 10x, than 500 spins without a bonus until you're done.

as i'm typing this, just got two bonuses on supersuits within 20 spins paying 140x and 80x. low betting of course = ) did not have nearly the same fun playing avalon at villento.

anyway, just my take. i think i'm beginning to appreciate the whole high variance thing. just waiting for the new games !!!

 

[saladfingers]

Hippo - you're not alone - I've had exactly the same experience. Totally fed up with MG/RTG software now and their bonus rounds - and at least with 3dice, even if you lose, it feels somehow fairer...

 

[hippo925]

saladfingers,

thanks, at least im not alone. it always kinda ruins it for me when i am able to predict how a session will go. you know, thinking the whole time "well, there's no way i won't get a bonus in X number of more spins..etc because that would be impossible !!! but "impossible" happens way too much, lol

all i know is im having a blast right now on Friday afternoon after a long week of work. i don't have to bet $2.00 anymore to win $100. i can try it now with 30 cents, lol.

good luck everyone and have a great weekend.

 

[tim5ny]

These are definitely high variance slots, and the downside can be as great, if not greater than the upside alot of the time. I've seen both ends of the spectrum, so don't everyone go to 3Dice thinking that they're just giving away the house to every player that comes along.

A good majority of the machine payouts on the big three (King Tut, Happy Valley, and Supersuits) relies on bonus rounds. You cannot survive on these slots without an occassional bonus round... and if one or two bonus rounds happen to be shitty along the way.. like a $5.00 bonus round on .25cents on King Tut (and it happens more than you'd think).. then you're on your way to $0.00 if another bonus round doesn't come in soon and save you. I have lost an $80.00 balance on King Tut more than once at .25cent spins without seeing a bonus round.. or getting one or two VERY bad ones along the way.

On the other hand, the upside is the possibility of HUGE bonus rounds on a very small wager, like my $642.00 bonus round on Happy Valley with a .75cent spin. Others can vouch for the fact that over 100 times wager bonus rounds are pretty much routine on these slots.. and 300X and up are not uncommon.

I happen to like the high variance aspect of these slots, and you may have to get used to how they work before you learn to love them. If you play them enough you can pretty much sense when the next bonus round is due.. and I'd say that maybe 75% of the time my intuition is right. It's hard to explain, but alot of times there's very bad dry spell followed by alot of 2-scatter hits just before the bonus round comes in. And many times when you've had a long dry spell without any bonus rounds.. and your credits have dropped substantially, then you might get 3 or 4 bonus rounds close together and end up way ahead in the credits. These slots take alot of patience sometimes. They're not the kind that I just hit-n-run on like I do at MG or RTG.

The best part is dealing with Enzo and the 3Dice team. Always a pleasure! Got my check in record time. No documents asked for and no hoops to jump through. And to add a personal touch, a hand written note of congratulations along with the check. A class act that will surely make an impact in online gambling. While the "Prima Donna" casinos sit back and act as though we're lucky to be able to give them our cash and play on their casinos, these guys know what it means to appreciate and please their customers.

 

[lojo]

Thanks for the well thought out post. I like these variance discussions, variance is how I stay entertained with slots (some people think they are a dummy's game, drop coin, spin, that's all there is) but they're dead wrong.

I've been adjusting lines wagered and bet size (creating my own variance) since I started playing slots, it was just intuitive to me (tho I didn't have a word for it). At the B&M's my girlfriend would always bet all lines and sometimes increase her bet per line and she could never figure out how I usually came up broke in a hurry or flush for a few days when we would be betting roughly the same amount per spin.

A painless excercise to venture into this: Even if you are rolling .20 or .40 on RTG come up with a number, say .75 so every time your balance is $xx.75 you're going to go high variance with that dangler. Say 3 lines @.25. If you're a higher roller or really bux-up, make it dollar danglers... $355 balance, why not go five lines @ $1 each or if you're feeling brave 11 lines @$5?

Of course you don't want to get carried away and blow your wad, it takes preplanning, self-will and discipline but it can add a hell of a lot of fun to a session. Yesterday I was $50 over my target on an RTG and decided 'all or nothing' with this excess profit so I bet $5 line on ten lines... I got three times my bet. But I would have definitely stopped if it didn't pan out. As luck would have it a couple of spins later I got all five 'schools of angel fish' with a wild on line #8 in crystal waters but I had reduced to .40x20lines That would have paid $12,500 and the wager was 'excess profit'... more than my target, 'free' money.

HV, Tut, SS on 3Dice are already high variance, as we know- and you can't increase the size of your coins (penny, nickle, dime etc.) but you could increase max bet to max on the 'gear' menu - click on the number 3 or 5 on the side of the reels and click the coins to max on those lines without risking 450 or 600 a roll. You've increased the variance by 3x or 5x but also the potential return has increased 3x or 5x (I wouldn't really suggest this method on 3Dice slots as many have noted, the big returns usually come from bonus rounds and you really want all lines bet for free spins)
So, because the slots are so 'bonus-centric' and I can't increase my coin size, I won't do this on 3Dice slots.

MG - Some slots will let you click the line# instead of clicking up or down, and some actually label the line while others show how many coins are bet per line, it's a mixed bag. But I'll usually start with one coin all lines and just increase the size of coin (quicker and easier that way).

I will bet a percentage of my bankroll higher variance whether I'm at a profit or not (but prefer to do it with profits). Why should it be any different than an investment portfolio, mostly low risk, some medium, and a smalll percentage high risk.
{also if I've just won a feature and I'm up 20% it isn't likely I'm going to hit another one right away (stranger things have happened) So I might roll low and medium for 15-20% of my current bankroll, then go high risk for two or three spurts equal to what I was ahead before returning to a steady-ish low-medium risk}

Take a game like Prime Property, Dolphin Tale, or Loaded, be betting 1/5 of your regular wager per line on five lines or 1/3 on three lines, hit the feature, choose the fewest spins for the highest multiplier and if you get lucky SHWIANG!!!!Kaching! On dolphin Tale you've just increased your variance by 8x (40lines/5 you bet) times 20x (highest multiplier in free spins...that's 160 times, or 266x if you bet three lines)

OF COURSE if you think the wins are few and far between now increasing your variance will just make them fewer and farther between (but oh so sweet when they come )

Again: I would only do this with danglers (as RTG example above) or profits, or a small percentage of my original bankroll and I certainly wouldn't play with more than I could afford to lose i.e. still be smiling if I go bust.


bla bla bla... your eyes bleeding yet

Good luck

 

[hippo925]

3dice, now my wife even understands "high variance" = )

so i turned a generous, no wager bonus into over $575 by getting some crazy bonuses betting usually .50, .25, and .30 depending on the game. my wife is impressed. over the weekend, my wife notices that bonuses are kinda hard to get, so i tell her to wait, sometimes they are really exciting.

anyway, my balance falls to under $200 and my wife thinks the games are too hard. she asks me why i play at 3dice and i explain to her that, well, i usually lose no matter where i play anyway, but at 3dice you really have a chance to hit some exciting wins. also, i've been having the most fun i've ever had in long time!!

so last night, my balance falls to under $50 and my wife says "i bet you'll never play 3dice again now.... but i tell her that i plan to only play at 3dice from now on and explain the whole customer service and player raves, etc.

at that point, i hit a crazy bonus on tut, and some more, now i'm at $475 again, lol

i actually had a string of 500 spins without a bonus but i have been conditioned to expect things like that playing mg and rtg slots, lol. don't forget, enzo actually gave us the odds on hitting the bonuses. (lets see, i've gone well over 500 on mg slots, and over 1000spins on rtg slots, and 3dice slots are high variance?)

i've never had a problem losing, it's a part of loving slots. but you want to feel that games are fair and that you ALWAYS have a chance. if i do cash out, i want to know there will be no problems.

by the way, i was going to post that i had a great time playing this weekend even after i lost my bankroll, but that didn't happen. = )

still playing as i type. enjoy the rest of your weekend everyone.

 

[Avatar73]

hmmm...... I'm almost convinced to have a go at 3dice now! Only problem is... I don't play slots anymore! I never did much and now (for various reasons) I simply don't.

ah, and the bonus system is "intelligent" at least! Just seems rather unlikely that I'll end up with anything at all left over after completeing with the games I like! ah well, seems to be keeping many people here happy!

Edit: "Until the wagering requirement is cleared, table limits are set to 50 ($, , €) "

Wow, looks like someone actually reads here, and has taken steps to ban the "big bet"! Top marks for being clearer than clear here... ..... even if i don't think its worth even trying!

 

[lojo]

hmmm...... I'm almost convinced to have a go at 3dice now! Only problem is... I don't play slots anymore! I never did much and now (for various reasons) I simply don't.

ah, and the bonus system is "intelligent" at least! Just seems rather unlikely that I'll end up with anything at all left over after completeing with the games I like! ah well, seems to be keeping many people here happy!

Edit: "Until the wagering requirement is cleared, table limits are set to 50 ($, , ) "

Wow, looks like someone actually reads here, and has taken steps to ban the "big bet"! Top marks for being clearer than clear here... ..... even if i don't think its worth even trying!

Heck you could always skip the bonus on your first deposit and pit your skill and luck against the house edge, then, you know, quit when you're ahead

 

[Avatar73]

Heck you could always skip the bonus on your first deposit and pit your skill and luck against the house edge, then, you know, quit when you're ahead

haha! good point. I guess I'm just not feeling too lucky atm! Also, why is 3 dice not in the accredited section? Or did I miss something?! Seems to be so much good press here that it seems like they should be!

 

[lojo]

haha! good point. I guess I'm just not feeling too lucky atm! Also, why is 3 dice not in the accredited section? Or did I miss something?! Seems to be so much good press here that it seems like they should be!

They're pretty new to online... might not be accredited but they aren't rogue either

 

[KasinoKing]

hmmm...... I'm almost convinced to have a go at 3dice now! Only problem is... I don't play slots anymore! I never did much and now (for various reasons) I simply don't.

ah, and the bonus system is "intelligent" at least! Just seems rather unlikely that I'll end up with anything at all left over after completing with the games I like! ah well, seems to be keeping many people here happy!

Edit: "Until the wagering requirement is cleared, table limits are set to 50 ($, , ) "

Wow, looks like someone actually reads here, and has taken steps to ban the "big bet"! Top marks for being clearer than clear here... ..... even if i don't think its worth even trying!

My personal view?
The 3-Dice SUB sux donkey dick (American Pie - The Wedding) - don't bother with it!
I deposited 50 bucks to try them out last month - had a pretty good features on Super Suits & Happy Valley, then played Tutankhamun until my balance dropped to $100 & cashed out. (100% profit).
The money was instantly in my Neteller account - literally instantly!
Why bother tying yourself into their ridiculous WR? Just give their slots a bash; if you lose - so what? If you win - cash out instantly, no hassles, no worries.
It was a breath of fresh air to me!

 

[kakata]

My personal view?
The 3-Dice SUB sux donkey dick (American Pie - The Wedding) - don't bother with it!
I deposited 50 bucks to try them out last month - had a pretty good features on Super Suits & Happy Valley, then played Tutankhamun until my balance dropped to $100 & cashed out. (100% profit).
The money was instantly in my Neteller account - literally instantly!
Why bother tying yourself into their ridiculous WR? Just give their slots a bash; if you lose - so what? If you win - cash out instantly, no hassles, no worries.
It was a breath of fresh air to me!

Im glad you pointed that $100 withdraw was a 100% profit of your 50 bux deposit.......you saved me a night of calculationing.........lol
Do you already have em as sponsor ? Just curiosity.........

 

[Avatar73]

Well KK, if I lose, then I've just chucked 50 USD or so down the drain, that's the so what!

but good point, if i ever feel like blatting something at slots, I might give 3 dice a look in!

 

[hippo925]

anyone good at math?

first of all, i've had a good time playing at 3dice and i think a lot of casinos can learn from their customer service and payout procedures.

my question is purely out of curiosity since my wife asked me and i suck at math. i had been having good luck playing .25 and .30 cents, but for the last 3 days my luck has been terrible ever since i upped my wagers a little and redeposited. so today, playing supersuits, i went WELL over 1000 spins without a bonus ($540 to $0, betting .45 (most spins) and .75 until the last $100 where i threw some $1.50's and 3.00's)with my wife over my shoulder laughing "no way..." ( i count the number of spins by money lost, so betting .45 = $45 lost = 100 spins, i don't even count the spins from money won so that's how i know it's well over a 1000)

can someone help me and use Enzo'a numbers to calculate the odds on at least 1000 spins without a bonus?

please note, i have had great fun and some great hits that made it entertaining regardless of money lost. in no way should anyone take this as a reason not to play at 3dice because i'm sure the losing streaks are made up for in big hits. this really is just out of curiousity.

my wife (also a slot lover at our indian casinos) won't let me play at 3dice anymore, lol (i make the money, but she's the boss :notworthy ). i told her that it has happened to me at rtg's too, but she thinks things like that should be impossible. i just want to quantify it so i can explain to her that it's not impossible, maybe just improbable ?

also, if someone has the info, what are the odds of not hitting a bonus in 1000 spins on other games, like cleoptra's gold for example. these numbers would be interesting if only to say, "hey, i just did something that happens once in xxx times or did something that has only a xxx% chance of occuring.

anyway, i know some of you are math geniuses so help me out if you can.

also, good luck to you all and hope 3dice keeps up the great work with their customer service and innovative games (impossibly hard at times, but sometimes sooo fun !!)

 

[lojo]

Yip, you lose.

 

[microgamingmug]

first of all, i've had a good time playing at 3dice and i think a lot of casinos can learn from their customer service and payout procedures.

my question is purely out of curiosity since my wife asked me and i suck at math. i had been having good luck playing .25 and .30 cents, but for the last 3 days my luck has been terrible ever since i upped my wagers a little and redeposited. so today, playing supersuits, i went WELL over 1000 spins without a bonus ($540 to $0, betting .45 (most spins) and .75 until the last $100 where i threw some $1.50's and 3.00's)with my wife over my shoulder laughing "no way..." ( i count the number of spins by money lost, so betting .45 = $45 lost = 100 spins, i don't even count the spins from money won so that's how i know it's well over a 1000)

can someone help me and use Enzo'a numbers to calculate the odds on at least 1000 spins without a bonus?

please note, i have had great fun and some great hits that made it entertaining regardless of money lost. in no way should anyone take this as a reason not to play at 3dice because i'm sure the losing streaks are made up for in big hits. this really is just out of curiousity.

my wife (also a slot lover at our indian casinos) won't let me play at 3dice anymore, lol (i make the money, but she's the boss :notworthy ). i told her that it has happened to me at rtg's too, but she thinks things like that should be impossible. i just want to quantify it so i can explain to her that it's not impossible, maybe just improbable ?

also, if someone has the info, what are the odds of not hitting a bonus in 1000 spins on other games, like cleoptra's gold for example. these numbers would be interesting if only to say, "hey, i just did something that happens once in xxx times or did something that has only a xxx% chance of occuring.

anyway, i know some of you are math geniuses so help me out if you can.

also, good luck to you all and hope 3dice keeps up the great work with their customer service and innovative games (impossibly hard at times, but sometimes sooo fun !!)

hippo925 - I lost $2000 on supersuits yesterday and got 1 bonus, which was 3xscatters and gave a return of $200 (playing at $6 stake so about 30x)

Thinking exactly along the same lines as you really, I left MG due to slots going 500+ spins and not hitting even one feature. To be fair 3dice has been pretty good so far, I've had some good wins and big losses there now too.

Last night I considered closing my account as was really p*ssed at supersuits, I went onto squirrel pike and somehow managed to get back up to $1600 with 2 lots of 4xscatters within say 10 spins so put this one down to a bad streak.

At the end of the day nothing is impossible, I know the frustration as the problem is with supersuits is the wins are rubbish off the normal reels so without the feature you can easily take a big hit on there.

 

[Zoozie]

can someone help me and use Enzo'a numbers to calculate the odds on at least 1000 spins without a bonus?

You can read how to do it in this thread:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/scattered-odds.16965/?highlight=geometric

But you this was for thunderstruck, you just have to use the number Enzo
provided for the slot in question. However this is the general curve and it will not be much different.

 

[devils17]

3dice tuts

after reading the 3dice threads over here i thought i would give it a try

ive played super suits and had the bonus twice in around 200 spins which is great but ive sank around 1000 soins in the tuts slot at 1 and the biggest win i have had is 16 and no bonus at all

 

[hippo925]

thank you zoozie

well, it sucks being the only asian who can't do math but the link zoozie sent gives a general idea of what to expect. interestingly, the odds of hitting the bonus on supersuits and king tut are pretty similar to thunderstruck. ( .065% versus .07%) or (1/155 versus 1/143) i don't play thunderstruck, but from the winner screenshots i know a lot of you do

so if you play thunderstruck, supersuits and king tut should hit bonuses about the same frequency.

so it looks like not getting a bonus on supersuits in 1000 spins is about a 1 in 1000 shot, not getting one in 1300 spins should be about a 1 in 10,000 shot. Enzo said the odds of no bonus in 400 spins is around 8%, 500 spins is 4%, or a 1 in 25.

definitely not impossible. i think i've had hits and runs that were just as statistically improbable (for example, once i got 6 retriggers on tut)

so it looks like i just had a very, very bad and improbable session

but i think it helps to keep things in perspective. so now we know that we should have 500 spins without a bonus only 1 in 25 times. you should go 300 spins without a bonus only 1 in 7 times.

knowing the numbers now, i am sure this is a statistically isolated case and my wife laughing over my shoulder gave me bad luck

 

[hippo925]

snuck in another deposit (my wife said ok, lol) , still losing but much more fun. i think there is so much psychology involved in slots. hit 3 bonuses on supersuits rather quickly for small amounts, but that has to be rare too, doesn't it? i wonder what the odds are on hitting 3 or 4 bonuses quickly, i bet it's just as rare as the 1000 spins without a bonus...

i swear i think that is what makes the 3dice slots so fun and frustrating at the same time...you just can't predict what will happen.

anyway, hopefully i can make my balance last over the weekend, but already got a few bonuses so i'm happy.

i wonder what is the most spins ever spun without a bonus on any slot?

or the most bonuses ever hit in 100 spins?

anyway, have a great weekend everyone.

 

[KasinoKing]

snuck in another deposit (my wife said ok, lol) , still losing but much more fun. i think there is so much psychology involved in slots. hit 3 bonuses on supersuits rather quickly for small amounts, but that has to be rare too, doesn't it? i wonder what the odds are on hitting 3 or 4 bonuses quickly, i bet it's just as rare as the 1000 spins without a bonus...

That exactly hits the nail on the head!
If you hit 3 bonus rounds in say 50 spins you could say that you have used up 465 spins worth of bonuses.
This is the pleasure or pain of high variance slots where most of your winnings come from getting the bonus features & not from the regular reel wins; Hit a few good ones in close succession & you're quids in, hit a dry patch & it's like pulling teeth! With high variance you can't have it both ways.

Hope you hit a biggie next time!