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Hey Guys, what do you think?

Discussion in 'North American Land Based Casinos' started by babs7262, Sep 25, 2008.

    Sep 25, 2008
  1. babs7262

    babs7262 Banned User

    Occupation:
    On Disability,p/t online slots reviewer
    Location:
    PA
    A few people have emailed me regarding trips to the Tropicana. I was thinking, maybe we could get one B&M rep in here for them just like we have reps from online casinos. this way, if someone wants to visit a B&M maybe you can get a host and get some comps there? There woudnt be any motive on my part because they already treat me well and Im a lowroller lol. Im still confused as to why they are so nice. I didnt mean that in a mean why, Im just impressed that they are soo good to me when I dont spend "big" money there. It might be because Im loyal to them. Sometimes its just not about the money. Ive been going for over 20 years

    Anyway, Ive built a nice relationship with them and ive been asking questions for other members and thought maybe someone can come in here once a week or so to answer questions so I dont have to keep going back and fourth?

    Maybe if others play at other hotels, they can bring reps from there so there is more of a choice as to where to gamble:)
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Sep 25, 2008
  3. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I've looked into getting hooked up with a host with the Harrah's group, and if the Trop or another any casino/group is anything like Harrah's, then you have no chance unless you're a really high roller. Basically Harrah's told me "Don't call us, we'll call you."

    This is pretty shitty considering the fact that I play there almost exclusively. I couldn't even begin to imagine how much action I've given them over the years in Indiana, AC and Vegas. :rolleyes:
     
    3 people like this.
  4. Sep 25, 2008
  5. suzecat

    suzecat Dormant account CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    California
    Ah Win.......that stinks big time! :eek2: But don't let that get you down.........we appreciate the hell out of you!:D

    @babs............1819 has an interesting comment on B&M managers........maybe he will share.:)
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Sep 25, 2008
  7. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    While we are at it can we get one of these from Macau please?:D:D
     
  8. Sep 27, 2008
  9. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    Babs, this may sound cynical to you but trust me, it is ALWAYS about the money with big business, and land based casinos are certainly big business, all you have to do is look at their lobbying effort and tax revenues generated by them to see that they are big business and the number 1 rule of big business is the bottom line...

    So don't kid yourself into believing that they are your friend or its just not about the money...all they want from you is your action in their casino and that is the reason that they appear to be so nice to you as you say...of course it is about your loyalty to them as they also factor in your visits to them each year as they do thousands of other returning regulars also, they project your anticipated future play with them at least six months to a year in advance when they are forecasting their sustained growth and profitability for the next year..

    You may consider your play with them to be small fish type play but when they factor in the thousands of others with the same type of action then your demographic group is definitely worth a few good comps for them to keep you coming back !!
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2008
    4 people like this.
  10. Sep 28, 2008
  11. Richtree7

    Richtree7 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Retired but still working
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Resorts in A.C. has treated me well

    I get a post card every month from Resorts Hotel & Casino offering me free room stays for 2 nights (not on Friday or Saturday night). I am not a high roller but also have no trouble when asking the pit boss for buffet comp's.
    I visit many other casinos in A.C. while I am there and have never received a free room offer from any of the others.

    Living in Massachusetts the casinos I visit most are Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods in Connecticut and have never recieved the free offer from them either.
    I do have a question though.
    As often as I have gone to the Mohegan I still have not gotten the special card they issue for the 'elite parking pass'. I have a friend that visits less often than I do and he plays nothing but $5.00 video poker, 1 token at a time. He uses his card in slot machines of $5.00 min. or more only. He does have the special parking pass and regularly receives free room offers and free tickets to events. The irony of this is he bets less overall and loses much less money per month at the Mohegan than I do. I play quarter, half dollar and dollar slots...also craps for $5.00 to $50.00 minimum tables.
    I just don't understand the casino policy and how the casino determines who should get the perks?
     
  12. Sep 28, 2008
  13. babs7262

    babs7262 Banned User

    Occupation:
    On Disability,p/t online slots reviewer
    Location:
    PA
    Ive been meaning to ask that too Richard because we have a Harrahs casino in PA about 1/2 hour from my home. Ive been there over 10 ten times with my husband and I havnt even received a card for a free drink! Yet, my friend has received all of this stuff and she only went once. I dont get it either.

    As for the Trop, Thats the only casino Ive ever gotten a free room offer from. I use to go to hilton and caesars until I realized it wasnt worth not playing at the Trop and build up more comps. And again, I had a friend who went to Hilton once and got a free room yet I was going over there everytime I stayed at the Trop (until about 4 yrs ago).

    I wonder how they determine who gets what


    Oh Rob: I agree with your post, I really do BUT...even my family says they cant believe how they treat me for what I gamble and my best friend who goes there and spends way more money than me isnt treated as well. Ive gotten personal phone calls at home from the GM, I get calls from the Host, One time they gave me a suite on their top floor on a Friday night (even had a doorbell and our own room person). They give me a regular suite when its a special occasion. I honestly dont think they do that for everybody who low rolls like me. I dont think Ive ever gambled more than a grand at one stay and some of them are 4 days long
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Sep 28, 2008
  15. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    Babs, What you're not understanding here is the fact that it makes no difference how much money you spend there dollar wise...it all depends on how much action you show them with a combination of your play and dollars...you say you think you have never gambled more that a grand at one stay...ok, lets break that down then and look at it this way...if you managed to stay for 4 days and you did not spend no more than a grand then you were most likely winning some money from the machines and tables you were playing, just like those pictures that you recently posted from AC...you could have taken your original grand and actually ran $10 grand thru the machines with your wins and playback...

    So you have to factor all of that in also as part of your overall action that you show the casino...casinos call this your "Theoretical Win", which basically means the amount of action and also the amount of play time per day that you will put your money at risk in their establishment...another words...your overall action, this is the way casinos rate your play and the amount of comps that you will be eligible for, there is no other way for them to do this...do you really think they gave you a suite on their top floor especially on a Friday night (even had a doorbell and our own room person)..."a butlers suite" at that, just because they like you so much...

    What they like is your action in their casino, bottom line, as they should... you are getting the comps based on your play there babs...your Theoretical Win" history with them...;)

    Most casinos like to see at least 4-5 hours play time a day in order for you to receive RFB from them...This is how the casino determines who gets what as you asked...
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2008
    4 people like this.
  16. Sep 28, 2008
  17. NASHVEGAS

    NASHVEGAS Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,

    Occupation:
    LOL
    Location:
    MERS
    In theory and general actuality, you are correct Rob on how they determine....still sometimes there is just no logical ryhme or reason to why this or that.

    Why so? That can vary all the way from idiot hosts, market conditions, reverse pyschology with PITA customers (ya know like moi), the property (i.e. where would one rather work, at the Wynn where tips average~$275/day or just down the street at the Stratosphere where tips average~$75/day point being prolly have a better chance of better perks at Strat. than the Wynn), slot play ratings may be more accurate but many times the Venetian, the HS and I assume all casinos at least on table games often do not come close to being accurate on avg. bet, hours played, and win/loss. For most that would be an eff up---kinda of bad when they have you down for a $500 average bet when you played all night and never made a bet below $1000 or the less likely flipside where one may receive a incorrect higher rating you never made a bet over $100 but were in the computer with $500 average bet. Could keep going but hopefully the drift is apparent.

    As good as Harrah's database and marketing reputation is supposed to be, I still have not figured why from the same property I may get a cruise invite worth at least $10K and a month later get an invite for 2 free nights with a $100 meal comp. Please do not take this last statement out of context but for some always full RFB and more, the latter is junk mail. In addition, the contrasting invites is actually chronic but though a nuisance, it is kinda like opening a box of chocolates per Mr. Gump.:D

    A good personal host and local rep. are you best bets rather than just a player's card program regardless, if possible. The offers,invites,comps,whatever will supercede any player's card program and most standard marketing offers assuming they get the ryhmes and reasons correct and no they are not my friends but we can pretend;)!!
     
    3 people like this.
  18. Sep 28, 2008
  19. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    Yea, I too absolutely agree with you there, it is always about who you know in every industry and the relationship you maintain over time with that particular person or host...I've had hosts move onto other properties/separate companies in the past...one went from Harrah's to the Mirage and I had never even played at the Mirage previous to her move there, but she called me up one day back a few years ago and told me about her move and said she would set me up with the full package RF&B, Butler Suite, Limo, Airfare anytime I wanted to come for the weekend, because she was familiar with my play/action...most hosts moving to another property usually will try to also get their clientle to move with them too though...

    Here's the way one of my close casino contacts at Harrah's explained the "Theo" to me in the past per an email...

    The industry norm is for casinos to return 20%-30% of their theoretical win on your play in the form of rooms, food, cashback, and promotions.

    For 99%+ ER games, casinos will rarely accord play anything stronger than 6% (a 4% max is more prevalent). At many, a game such as 9/6 Jacks will see a 2%-3% "theo" assigned -- I'd expect Borgata is no more than 2%.

    If you can believe it, at one time Sands assigned a 1% theo to the game, with relatively negligible food comps (hosts could, and often do, provide much stronger discretionary comps -- including RFB on decent $1 play).

    Your actual theo is generally unavailable from the slot desk, but many hosts will disclose it for a given trip.

    For $10K of play, you might see a theo of $200-$400. That would suggest a comp rate of no more than $40-$120 (.4%-1.2%). Typically (just winging some numbers, you can adjust based upon your particular experience) you might see a mix of comp components that looks something like .3% food, .3% cb, .5% room and .1% promos ($30/$30/$50/$10). Stronger values might be available during some promotions, such as "x" RC or cb ones or free/discounted buffets.

    Actual experience at any given casino will vary. But they should give you a fair indication whether your particular experience is reasonable and/or competitive with other AC casinos.

    Some Harrah's history too: Harrah's introduced a series of loyalty cards called Total Rewards, which were used for "comps" and other free stuff. For the games folks out there, notice that you can "level up" as a member from Gold, Platinum, Diamond, Seven Stars, and for one member - Harrah's "best" customer - there's a Chairman's Club card. They go so far as to fly you around, give you free hotel and accomodations, and other great perks.

    This loyalty card gave them the underlying data which they could now use to drive the other parts of their data strategy.

    LTV on a per-user basis. The next step once they had all this data was to create models against the lifetime value (LTV) of their customers. This was done in two ways - first, you can imagine a visit to a casino, where a customer comes in, plays cards/slots/whatever, and then leaves. Based on their actions, a "theoretical win $" is calculated, which is an expression of what the casino should expect to get from that person. Combining this number and other services consumed and comps, you end up with a net profit calculation. You can imagine that this number is a rolled up view of:

    How much money that person brought with them, What games they played, in what mix, How long did they play for, What other services did they consume etc.

    Once you can value an individual session, then you can also chain together multiple visits to calculate an aggregate value. This means that you can now tell the approximate difference between a rich customer that visits every July 4th, once a year, versus someone who plays frequently but also spends less money.

    Edit: One last one from a Las Vegas article grab:

    With a $25-a-hand blackjack player who plays 50 hands per hour for four hours. This player puts $5,000 into action ($25 x 50 x 4). The casino figures it has a 2% edge overall in blackjack, so $5,000 x .02 = $100, which is the expected casino win. Since this casino is on the Strip and faces stiff competition, it has a 40% comp rebate. So .4 x $100 = $40, the amount the player is entitled to in comps.

    This formula works the same way for slot and video poker players, but all machines are not created equal and savvy machine players need to understand the meaning of the word "theoretical" usually called theo, the god worshipped by casino executives.
     
    4 people like this.
  20. Sep 28, 2008
  21. NASHVEGAS

    NASHVEGAS Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,

    Occupation:
    LOL
    Location:
    MERS
    Good read and it does vary as I have seen the industry return norm mentioned as high as 40% but your source would prolly be more reliable than mine.

    Also, I think the point should be made for all it never hurts to politely ask although I usually do not until I am well aware I am being taken advantage of based on play or discretionary policy. I am not advocate of expecting something for nothing but it is a known fact even with a good host they do not necessarily volunteer all they can do.

    Sometimes that so called good friend ,not, aka good host will deny you what may be entitled to. The Venetian's discount of marker's policy document somehow got leaked on the Net. Until I read, I never even knew they had a discount of marker's policy or worse I would have qualified for a discount.

    So eventually with my pocket Aces locked in my lock box, I would sit down with my long time host for one of those come to Jes-s meetings. He manned up and fabricated a different discount of marker's policy. Then, he was busted without me ever needing my pocket aces as the most ironic thing would occur just after our meeting.

    He walked with me to the back cage as I needed something and we were walking past. I swear I never had heard the word "discount" mentioned in all the time I had spent at the Venetian. Then while at the back cage which had only 3 windows as I waited for whatever with my host, another host with a player walked in and instructed for that player's marker to be discounted exactly per the real policy I was aware of. We both heard the total amount of marker owed and amount to be discounted (the keys and consistent with the actual policy). Unbelieveable timing!! Yet, my host would still claim what occured was on account of the other player being an international player. Not sure why, though I heard the non-sense reasons, but they will actually discount an international player's marker based on a lower total amount owed than a domestic player. However, international or domestic policy was not applicable to my situation and my host/friend's fabrication.:rolleyes::rolleyes: The moral, well eff that!

    That said, I never had a problem once I asked with any BS on having a marker discounted at THE SHOE (you probably need a six figure credit line but I dunno their policy for sure and it is always discretionary). Moral, if I did not know to ask, it would never have been mentioned or offered by THE SHOE period. I do remember that when I did my thing the first time, you could tell they do not expect most (that may meet the criteria for a discounted maker) to have a clue of the possibility of having markers discounted!!

    EDIT:Just saw your edit Rob, so I guess we both nailed the 40% as I had no idea of your edit and I was not disagreeing anyway just mentioning the figure I was aware of,fwiw!:thumbsup:
     
    2 people like this.
  22. Sep 28, 2008
  23. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    True, very true Nash...and the funny thing is most folks don't realize that if your play does warrant it there is literally nothing that a good host won't do for you or get for you..;)...of course with I'm sure some illegal substance or something along those lines but other than that they are like...your wish is my command !! :D
     
  24. Sep 28, 2008
  25. anniemac

    anniemac Ueber Meister MM PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Texas, USA
    This from someone who was a Diamond member at Harrah's for a while, when you quit playing your "set amount" you lose your perks. Even though you have one of their elite cards, if you don't spend as much as often as you use to, you won't get the comps associated with the card.

    These B&M casinos are no more your best friend than the online ones are. The bottom line is how much you play not how much they personally like you.
     
    3 people like this.
  26. Sep 28, 2008
  27. NASHVEGAS

    NASHVEGAS Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,

    Occupation:
    LOL
    Location:
    MERS
    Annie,
    You are correct and there are some threads that Rob,Winbig and I go into the exact deadlines of losing your Rewards Credits which is different than Tier Points/Scores which determine status. We got a few things confused but then nail it. You can search trying Harrah's Total Rewards if you wish.

    I have to leave for football in a few minutes but will try quickly to summarize.

    Total Reward Points or comps require a visit every six months to any Harrah's property with one point being earned or you lose them. There may be some other ways to keep but can not remember. Rob knew the caveats better than I but I think the caveats were status related.

    Tier Scores which determine Status (marketing gimmick as a bell curve with way more than the majority being Diamond) are reset the first of every year to zero. Your status determined from the preceding year via Tier Score remains the same or will not be lowered til March 31st of the following year or a minimum of 15 months even if you never set foot in the door. Of course, your status can always be upgraded in the current year and remain in effect the entire following year and the first 3 months of the next year.Did quickly and can not proof. Rob knows the program well and hopefully he reads and if I got something wrong, corrects plus he or others may go into a little more detail:thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Sep 28, 2008
  29. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    Yep, you purdy much nailed it there Nash...:thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Sep 29, 2008
  31. babs7262

    babs7262 Banned User

    Occupation:
    On Disability,p/t online slots reviewer
    Location:
    PA
    OMG my head hurts!!!

    I understand much better now. Maybe I just assumed Im a low roller when maybe I actually do wager more than I thought. I mean, I know if we play "their ' money it counted toward my comp points but I didnt realize that it counted towards spending money to gamble. In other words, I won $1000 and I gambled it for 4 days and it happen to add up to over $5K in wagering because I happen to win the very first night and first morning. I didnt spend any of MY money so I figured they would see that and not count it. So what Im reading, if I am correct...it does count even though its their money?

    That totally changes everything for me then. I gamble way more than 4-5 hours a day. Not only that, but I eat at their restaurants, get their room service so I guess giving me what I want as far as a nice room IS worth it to them. Thanks for the explanatioin. I never claimed to be a brainiac at even trying to figure out the numbers or "theo" as you call it. I just know I like to gamble, play at the same place and get treated well. BUT...I do have to say one thing...I still believe Loyalty plays a part. My host even told me some stuff too. She said I would get better comps if I stuck with slots rather than tables . Even though the tables are costly she said people end up spending more money on slots. I do like let it ride but only do 5 hands. Once I run out of white bonus chips, I quit lol. THats my little system telling me Im not gonna win. I last as long as my white chips

    Thank you Nash, Robwin, and Annie. I have one of those total rewards but after going about 10 times in about 4 months time and not even receiving one cocktail, I stopped giving them my business
     
  32. Sep 29, 2008
  33. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    :thumbsup: You 've got it now babs, and your slot host was right about the slots letting you earn more comps because the house edge is quite a bit more for slots verses the other casino games...
     
  34. Sep 29, 2008
  35. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    Mine expire in March, but after this weekend's play, I'm able to stay at Platinum for another year until March 2010. :D I added over 1200 points to my tier score and around $100 in comps in < 24 hours, with about 5 hours straight play in the high limit room ($100+/hand blackjack.) I wonder if that would qualify me immediately for Diamond status? I heard that you can jump to that level with X amount of tier credits in a short amount of time.
     
  36. Sep 29, 2008
  37. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    Win, you should check with them and see...most of the Harrah's properties require you to earn 2000 tier credits per 24 hour period in order to move up to diamond status or 10000 for the year, the Rio in vegas used to only require 1600 points per 24 hour period but I'm not sure what it is now but I am purdy sure most of the properties still require 2000 per day though...:cool:
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. Sep 29, 2008
  39. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Whoa, wait.

    I miscalculated.

    I was in the low 3,000 range and now I'm at 5308.

    I'll give them a call tomorrow. :thumbsup:

    edit: Jeezes......I just called, and they tell me it's 3,000 points. :rolleyes:

    Also:

    Ahh, I found the daily requirements on their site. It's 2,000 daily points for Platinum and 3,000 for Diamond.

     
    2 people like this.

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