Resolved Help with Jonny Jackpot bonus rules.

[JohnSnow]

Dear casinomeister members,

I would like to know if what has happened today is according to law of UKGC and Malta or what exactly the definition of a parashute casino bonus is?

Earlier this week I signed up at Jonnyjackpot casino. I deeposited 80 euro and got a bonus of 80 euro. Started to playing slots with bets from 60 cents up to max 2 euro per spin. After a while (I believe some hours), my balance was up to about 400 euro.

I stopped for a while and went to see how much more I had to wager in my account. To my surprise the wager was still at 0%. This is where I knew for a fact that this was a parashute bonus which would mean that the real balance and bonus money are not tied together at all unless you lose your real balance first and start playing with your bonus balance where effectively the wagering starts.

So my entire bonus balance stayed the same for the whole time (80 euros). Never touched it and went to play black jack on higher stakes and finally I made a withdrawal of 805 euro and some pennies where the bonus of 80 euro that once again I have never ever played with was removed automatically.

Three full days and nights went by and I got confirmation of account verification. In the meantime I got another exclusive 100% bonus while withdrawal was pending and deposited again 80 euro but this time lost everything, and waited for my previous withdrawal untill I got this today, one day later:

Dear *****,

Your account has been found to be in breach of clause 7 of the Promotional Terms associated with the welcome offer:

Clause 7 - The maximum bet allowed while the Welcome Bonus is in play is €5. Should You bet higher than this while the Welcome bonus is in play, the Casino reserves the right to confiscate all winnings.

Therefore, your withdrawal has been cancelled, your winnings have been confiscated and your deposit of €160 has been returned to your gaming account.

Regards
Accounts Team


Jonny Jackpot

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Email: accounts@jonnyjackpot.com
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Is there anything I can do now in order to get my winnings? This doesn't seem fair.

They have now also banned me for 5 years across the whole group just now on live chat because I said that when I gamble with money I can afford to lose this helps me to forget about my daily pain because of my chronic illness (for just moments). I specifically said with money I can afford to lose and she said that we have determined you are a problem gambler. I said I can prove that I am not and that she was bashing and insulting me based on my disease. I do think that it's very good they are sharp about problem gamblers however I can prove I am not one because I came to term years ago that the more you deposit the more you lose. She should have said this 6 years ago. Anyway i am now banned with 160 euro in my account and my winnings have been taken from me. What a day.

Our full writeup on Johnny Jackpot Casino here.

 

[Scott1baird]

As far as I am aware reading everything everyone has ever said about bonuses in this forum is that you can wager whatever amount you want up until the second you hit bonus money, as long as you didn't go into to bonus money once then they are wrong.

 

[JohnSnow]

As far as I am aware reading everything everyone has ever said about bonuses in this forum is that you can wager whatever amount you want up until the second you hit bonus money, as long as you didn't go into to bonus money once then they are wrong.

I never ever touched the bonus. It was 80 euro the whole time with 0% wagered.

 

[Scott1baird]

Then as far as I am aware you did nothing wrong.

 

[johnnymcc1966]

These lot are a absolute bunch of clowns. I lost all my WHG promotions with these. I had joined through a casino streamer affiliate link and had lost my first 4 or 5 deposits of £20 each which were bonus promotions which they target emailed me about. I then deposited another £20 taking advantage of another targeted offer and managed to withdraw around £400. Next day I get an email saying I am banned right across the board from WHG promotions and I have about a dozen of their accounts. Ridiculous behaviour.
Is there a WHG/Caddell rep on here you could speak to?

 

[Jono777]

No rep, not an active one anyway, never any real interest in CM from this lot and probably the Kings of the "bonus ban"

Unsure if this applies theses days, T&C's updated all the time but when I played there, the max bet limit applied whether you'd dipped into the bonus or not, the rule was based on the fact that you'd TAKEN the bonus whether you'd used it or not and were hence bound by the bonus TERMS. This is how I feel they will wriggle out this time also.

Believe it or not however they are subject to backing down, happened to me 2 or 3 times and also read about it on here a handful of times too.

Maybe an email rather than live chat directed to management, live help may not provide contact details but look around online, google searches and I'm sure you'll find an email for "management@WHG" to allow you to start the ball rolling..............

 

[JohnSnow]

No rep, not an active one anyway, never any real interest in CM from this lot and probably the Kings of the "bonus ban"

Unsure if this applies theses days, T&C's updated all the time but when I played there, the max bet limit applied whether you'd dipped into the bonus or not, the rule was based on the fact that you'd TAKEN the bonus whether you'd used it or not and were hence bound by the bonus TERMS. This is how I feel they will wriggle out this time also.

Believe it or not however they are subject to backing down, happened to me 2 or 3 times and also read about it on here a handful of times too.

Maybe an email rather than live chat directed to management, live help may not provide contact details but look around online, google searches and I'm sure you'll find an email for "management@WHG" to allow you to start the ball rolling..............

This can't be right? I have played at Temple Nile and 21prive where this is in fact the case. It's relatively simple. When you want to enforce rules on bonus funds with max bet violation the bonus and real money balance has to be tied together.

Here is the difference.

When you deposit for example on templenile with 100 euro and get 100 euro bonus, you get 100 euro real balance and 100 euro bonus balance HOWEVER, when you start placing bets from the get go the wagering starts!! In this case the casino is in its right to confiscate winnings anything placed above 5 euro bets.

In case with Jonnyjackpot you have almost the same principal. So when you deposit 100 euro you get 100 euro real balance and 100 euro bonus balance. Here is the difference: on Jonnyjackpot your wagering WON'T start unless you dip into the bonus. This means that the bonus is not in play while playing with real balance and you can cash out anytime you like!

You can also note this difference trying to cash out on templenile while you have an active bonus. It won't let you even if you have not dipped into the bonus funds. Jonnyjackpot does let you withdraw when you have not touched the bonus funds. So how can they enforce bonus rulings over real money balance play? This doesn't make sense at all.

 

[jjqj1982]

what games did u play?were they the ones they do not caunt into wagering like extra chilli or white rabbit?

 

[johnnymcc1966]

In my expereince of WHG sites wagering does not start until you lose your real cash,and this applies to all their sites I have used including Jonny Jackpot.

 

[JohnSnow]

what games did u play?were they the ones they do not caunt into wagering like extra chilli or white rabbit?

I played legacy of Egypt, twin spin, tumble dwarf and danger high voltage. All contribute to wagering.
Jonnyjackpot is basically enforcing illegals rules.

I never touched the bonus, progress bar was 0% whole time and I could cash out without problems where the 80 euro bonus funds automatically got forfeited.

I just don't know what to do here. You can't enforce bonus rules on real balance wager. If you do enforce bonus rules you have to play with bonus, meaning the wagering of bonus funds (progress) should start right away. What they are doing here is just criminal in my opinion. They gave me the run-around with verification eventually told me that I had to wait till Monday before my withdrawal gets processed and bombard me with shitty news about my withdrawal on a Saturday.

Honestly they have ruined my weekend. If all of this wasn't enough they even unlawfully banned me with 160 euro in my account. I have send them an email and was told that the matter has escalated to the relevant departement. I have heard this sentence so many times. They have treated me like absolute garbage especially when I opened up in a vulnerable moment about my Lyme disease on live chat. They used this as an excuses to ban my account for video years across the whole network. I mean.. wtf.

 

[Jono777]

I think you missed my point mate.

I understand how the wagering structure works differently, you explained it well and yes, I have come across that set up numerous times across the board.

What I meant earlier.... You accepted a bonus upon making the deposit, whether you used it. dipped into it etc is irrelevant, you took a bonus at the deposit stage, accepted it and agreed to the associated terms. The bonus is now active on your account and they can now 'legally' apply all the necessary bonus terms they see fit.

They will look at it this way and as much as I do not agree with what they have done, I have come across this so, so many times over the years and its 9/10 a case of 'casino wins', sadly! The only way the cash only approach would apply/work is if the bonus had not been taken/declined at the deposit stage.

Cashing out never a problem, its the exceeding of the max bet rule.

All this been said, as I said earlier they are very, VERY trigger happy to impose these confiscations and bans and sometimes its happened without looking at the whole picture, hence my mention of them back tracking on occasion........

 

[JohnSnow]

I think you missed my point mate.

I understand how the wagering structure works differently, you explained it well and yes, I have come across that set up numerous times across the board.

What I meant earlier.... You accepted a bonus upon making the deposit, whether you used it. dipped into it etc is irrelevant, you took a bonus at the deposit stage, accepted it and agreed to the associated terms. The bonus is now active on your account and they can now 'legally' apply all the necessary bonus terms they see fit.

They will look at it this way and as much as I do not agree with what they have done, I have come across this so, so many times over the years and its 9/10 a case of 'casino wins', sadly! The only way the cash only approach would apply/work is if the bonus had not been taken/declined at the deposit stage.

Cashing out never a problem, its the exceeding of the max bet rule.

All this been said, as I said earlier they are very, VERY trigger happy to impose these confiscations and bans and sometimes its happened without looking at the whole picture, hence my mention of them back tracking on occasion........

My point is that they can't apply this rule with their UKGC license. When bonus is taken you have to accept the bonus rules. The rules are "when in play with bonus money". This means that there must be a structure where this bonus is somehow connected to the wagers you place on games (FROM THE START). So like I said earlier, either the wagering starts right away and you are full in your rights enforcing max bet rules or you offer a parashute bonus structure where it only comes in play when you actually start playing with your "second chance" funds. I also understand what you are trying to say. But with a UKGC and MGA license you can't bend the rules on these bonus structures. It's either a part of the real balance in some way (like templenile where bonus wagering starts right away) and in which case Jonnyjackpot would be right or it's a parashute bonus when you don't count wagers as you don't dip into the bonus funds. Bending this rule is rogue one jazz Curaçao license level.

 

[Jono777]

UKGC states nowadays for UK players they must be able to withdraw their cash funds/own money at any time, which you can.

Bonus terms totally change this, their bonus money, their terms, their rules, they can do what they want.

The max bet term when a bonus is active on the account (whether dipped into or not) is their chosing of rules and not the UKGC, they are meeting what the UKGC requires by allowing cash balance to be withdrawn at any time.

FWIW, I am not defending them nor their actions in this case, just trying (and seemingly failing) to explain what has happened here.

 

[JohnSnow]

So there is 0 chance to get back my winnings? Good to know. I'll just ask them to reopen my account and play with the 160 I have got. And then I'm done with the hole group. I know for fact I have done this before on 21 casino and no problem whatsoever, but you know what... Whatever....

 

[Scott1baird]

Gotta say no, ukgc doesnt allow real funds to be tied to a bonus despite what that casino says. Its law. You can bet what you want up until the second you dip into bonus funds. IE. I deposit £100 with £100 bonus. I can bet the whole £100 on on spin and its should not effect the bonus money or terms.

 

[Jono777]

So there is 0 chance to get back my winnings? Good to know. I'll just ask them to reopen my account and play with the 160 I have got. And then I'm done with the hole group. I know for fact I have done this before on 21 casino and no problem whatsoever, but you know what... Whatever....

Jesus Christ read my post, especially the one I initially made.

I never said that at any point.............

*I never Blaspheme, but there are none so deaf as those that will not listen

 

[SpinUk]

Jesus Christ read my post, especially the one I initially made.

I never said that at any point.............

*I never Blaspheme, but there are none so deaf as those that will not listen

Normally agree with the majority your views on stuff but UKGC say they you should be able to play with the cash unencumbered and freely. They cannot override this rule with a new contract rules that apply to a bonus. In other words they cannot automatically cancel out the UkGc rules just by saying - “well here is a bonus - you can forget about the UKGC cash play rules that all UKGC casinos must adhere as our rules now forfeit those rules if you take this bonus”. Particularly if they have (rightly) clearly segragated cash and bonus funds.

 

[JohnSnow]

I already went to live chat and told them to open my account and play with the 160 euro I have still left untill it's gone. Told them I don't care anymore. They said you will still receive feedback via email, whatever this means. Looks like they need this 800 euro withdrawal of mine harder than I do. I know I'm being impulsive here, I don't want to share every single conversation I had with them but they really made me feel like a piece of shit that doesn't have any rights.

 

[goatwack]

I always thought it made no sense to have my Real Cash tie into the unused Bonus back in those rare times I'd ever used one, as it clearly puts me at an advantage from the outset.

The way cash and bonus funds are segregated from one another actually makes more sense if anything

 

[SpinUk]

Why dont you challenge it? Did you sent them link to ukgc rules/handbook? Raise it to their ADR etc

 

[thr0b]

Isn’t the UKGC rulebook irrelevant in this case? You’re playing in Euro, so I assume you’re not in Great Britain, and will come under the MGA jurisdiction instead.

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for customers in Great Britain; (ii) the Malta Gaming Authority under licence number

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(issued 01/08/2018) for all other customers.

 

[SpinUk]

Isn’t the UKGC rulebook irrelevant in this case? You’re playing in Euro, so I assume you’re not in Great Britain, and will come under the MGA jurisdiction instead.

I only know its the case for UKGC - if Malta good luck

 

[JohnSnow]

Isn’t the UKGC rulebook irrelevant in this case? You’re playing in Euro, so I assume you’re not in Great Britain, and will come under the MGA jurisdiction instead.

Yes I am from the Netherlands. So this basically means I am fucked either way. I'm exhausted. They can shove the 800 euro where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[paul7388]

Why dont you challenge it? Did you sent them link to ukgc rules/handbook? Raise it to their ADR etc

Why does everyone keep quoting UKGC. From what i see he is in Netherlands so UKGC have nothing to do with him.

Lol was sleeping see that was already posted

 

[Jono777]

Normally agree with the majority your views on stuff but UKGC say they you should be able to play with the cash unencumbered and freely. They cannot override this rule with a new contract rules that apply to a bonus. In other words they cannot automatically cancel out the UkGc rules just by saying - “well here is a bonus - you can forget about the UKGC cash play rules that all UKGC casinos must adhere as our rules now forfeit those rules if you take this bonus”. Particularly if they have (rightly) clearly segragated cash and bonus funds.

Maybe I misunderstood things then, unsure?

The way I understood new UKGC on this matter was yes, separate balances and cash can be withdrawn at any time.

What I have been trying to say is that as far as Caddell / WHG are concerned is they can apply their bonus terms as the player has taken one, whether used or not.

Looking further if indeed UKGC states no restrictions can be placed if bonus not touched, then this brings me to my points regarding their "trigger happy" bans which they do so without digesting all the full in's and out's of the particular scenario/situation (This is what I feel has happened here and have been trying to explain to OP)

This is by no means dead in the water and as I mention this group will back down if its proven they were in the wrong. They will not however back down if the player in question does nothing or gives up at the first hurdle and will quietly smile and sweep it under the carpet.