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Help solve husband and wife debate...

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by bengoria, Aug 28, 2007.

    Aug 28, 2007
  1. bengoria

    bengoria Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Financial aid at a college
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    My husband and I have enjoyed playing at the Microgaming casinos but have an ongoing debate. Are the bonus features preprogrammed or are they based on how you pick? We were playing Moonshine for $1 at First Web casino on Sunday and hit the following bonuses within just a few spins:

    16x4 $162.56
    6x1 $3.12
    8x4 $37.44
    11x4 $369.96
    14x3 $49.68
    4x1 $14.00
    9x3 $7.20
    3x1 $4.52

    Total $648.48

    My husband insists that it was his brilliant picking strategy and I say it was all preprogrammed and it didn't matter which squares he picked he would have hit the same amounts.

    Any thoughts on the matter to resolve this debate?
     
  2. Aug 28, 2007
  3. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Give Microgaming a ring & ask them! :p

    Unfortunately this is just one of many things which no-one outside of the MG company itself can be sure of.
    My personal opinion is - it doesn't matter either way!

    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Aug 28, 2007
  5. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    KK is right.

    But it would be interesting to know how many of the games are pre-determined if since we know the VP double predetermined feature.

    It is not only at MG, I have strong evidence WagerWorks Enchanted Unicorn feature is also predetermined etc.

    However it does matter if the predetermined picks are uniformly random, but it is a waste of your time though.

    Zoozie
     
  6. Aug 28, 2007
  7. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I used to think it was pre-programmed....until I played Hitman, where the amount you win has different minimum and maximum win boundaries depending on the person you pick in the "calculator" bonus round.

    I say that because it can't know which person you will pick, so if it pre-determined the highest possible prize, and you picked a person with a lower "maximum bondary", it wouldn't work.

    It may vary of course, game to game.

    As an aside, this thread might help in future "husband vs wife" debates ;)
     
  8. Aug 28, 2007
  9. me_and_ed

    me_and_ed Ueber Meister CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Selling out
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I learned a long time ago that my wife is always right!!:D
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Aug 28, 2007
  11. GaryWatson

    GaryWatson Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Marketing Consultant
    Location:
    Europe
    Haha, stay on the safe side:lolup:
     
  12. Aug 28, 2007
  13. babs7262

    babs7262 Banned User

    Occupation:
    On Disability,p/t online slots reviewer
    Location:
    PA
    what a coincidence

    Last night Rich and I were watching a slot machine documentary. The programmers for the Vegas casinos said EVERYTHING is predetermined. He went as far to say that the only reason why they have reels with stuff like fruit , sevens, characters etc is to give someone something to look at while gambling

    He also said the second you put your money in, the computer chip is activated to either win or lose. It makes no difference what kind of game it is.

    Even if there is a bonus round. There is no strategy for most. The outcome is predetermined before you pick your choice.

    Now what I find very very interesting is Alladdin. Do you remember seeing all of my WS this weekend from that game. I didnt even post all of the 25 free spin WS, it would of taken up 2 pages. This is the exception to the rule. Im kind of leary of saying anything because I dont wanna jinx it or have an RTG person see it. This cant be a coincidence because Ive been testing this for months because I never get the free spins lamp......Until Now.......

    Let's say you get the bonus and you have to choose 3 lamps. Do not use both sides, by that I mean either click 3 from the left side or 3 from the right side. If you dont get the free spins, go to the other side next time. I know it sounds crazy but it worked for me every single time when in the past, I use to mix it up. The only iffy thing is the lamp in front. For the most part, 99.999, it took turns between sides

    Other than that, this documentary swears up and down that it's predetermined. I use the same strategy from alladdin on MG's like cashalot and stars and stripes and it doesnt work. It just works on Alladdin.

    I have too much time on my hands. Just try it and if it doesnt work, by all means laugh at me!
     
  14. Aug 28, 2007
  15. GaryWatson

    GaryWatson Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Marketing Consultant
    Location:
    Europe
    yes, I will go with predetermined.

    Example : Roulette Machines in UK Bookies

    My friend is hooked on them. As soon as it starts spinning he can tell me with 80% certainty what number it is going to land on. It doesnt really help as his bet is already on
     
  16. Aug 28, 2007
  17. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    But "Hitman" can't be pre-determined - it's impossible as it can't know what the prize range is until the player picks a person out in the bonus round.
     
  18. Aug 28, 2007
  19. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    It can. The software selects a coin denomination with a +/- variation of x coins. The multiplier feature then matches as closely as possible to the pre-determined amount +/- the allowed 'variation'. The day someone posts a top coin value with a top multiplier - I eat my hat, and everyone elses :D Alternatively, and here's one for the REAL conspiracy lot - if it meant to give you a load of coins, and you picked the lowest possible - it makes up for it shortly afterwards on the reels or with subsequent features.

    Hobobiker's experience of Cleopatra in UK B&M's has confirmed my theory that 'free spin' bonuses are pre-determined, which is a real bummer... particularly on Cleopatra which out of the lot I rated as the 'fairest'... Ho hum.
     
  20. Aug 28, 2007
  21. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    I just thought - there's a simple way to get a feel for this... Just play it in 'fun mode' and keep selecting the low end characters. I'll put my shirt on you always getting up towards the top end in coin value, and good multipliers!!... Giving you, ooooooh, more or less a low end/medium hig character win with a 2x multiplier... Hmmm...
     
  22. Aug 28, 2007
  23. oldtrvlagt

    oldtrvlagt Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Self Employed Travel Agent
    Location:
    Iowa
    On somewhat the same note....I have a dumb question. If you are playing at an RTG casino and the random jackpot is ready to pay...will it pay no matter what the size of the bet you make? In other words does anyone know if it would pay you if you were paying $.01? Even if there are 20 lines? Just my active imagination at work..and I'm bored!!!;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2007
  24. Aug 28, 2007
  25. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    I'm just going to do a quick Excel thing to work out the potential coins for Hitman...

    EDIT: It definitely works, only the lowest 'target' at maximum multiplier fails to meet the minimum required for the highest characters minimum win. Therefore, all the other characters would work - with the exception of the two very top prizes of 300,000 and 360,000 coins (all the rest are interchangeable). So by not picking the HIGHEST target, you may miss out on the jackpot - but it's more than likely the same whichever one you go for. Damn damn damn.... The more I read this forum - the less I like slots :D :D


    Note to self: Change name to Pokester...




    Note to self: New name sounds rude... Change name to Black Jackster














    Note to self: New new name sounds rude - give up gambling.
     
  26. Aug 28, 2007
  27. Kaynos72

    Kaynos72 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    My job sucks
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    So let me get this straight. You guys are saying that at the moment someone hit the spin button, the winning amount (if any) is determined and the spinning of the reels are just for show ?

    Sorry but i don't believe that. I tought the winning percentage was determined by how much the reels are weighted and how many amount of symbols there is per reels.

    If the winning amount is predetermined before the spin, what's the point of having weighted reels ? We made a huge thread about cracking the slots with all the probablity of payout and found out that they are indeed paying what they claim they are, around 95%.

    What's the point of having slots with 25 symbol on reel 1, 30 on the 2nd, 40 on the 3rd and so on if it's just for show ?
     
  28. Aug 29, 2007
  29. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    Talking about features mainly I think... Of course, the slot reels are pre-determined as well, but by the RNG... and indeed the 'symbols' are just 'for show'. But yes, features mainly I think.
     
  30. Aug 29, 2007
  31. babs7262

    babs7262 Banned User

    Occupation:
    On Disability,p/t online slots reviewer
    Location:
    PA
    That's what he said

    He said "the only reason why they have symbols is to give you something to look at" This guy has been a programmer for years. It's on the travel channel called "busting vegas" and "Vegas sucker bets"

    The ONLY exception is Video Poker, that is the only game that cannot be predetermined because they all use one 52 card deck and you get to change your cards by holding or not. On slots, you push a button and really have nothing to think about.

    BUT..When in the Trop one time, I had a conversation with a VP slot attendant and he told me that on the "Jacks or Better" slots, if you play the first 3 hands without changing a thing(even if you want to hold something, dont), it does something that makes you win and gives you better hands from that point on. I doubt it will work online but Im gonna try it in fun mode and come back to tell you if it worked.
     
  32. Aug 29, 2007
  33. GaryWatson

    GaryWatson Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Marketing Consultant
    Location:
    Europe
    My friend had a theory that on a real fruit machine we just keep playing, hold nothing, collect nothing and eventually we will win the 30 jackpot. Sure enough, eventually every 2nd hand we were getting some sort of win but we were gambling for the jackpot. That theory cost us 20 each haha:D
     
  34. Aug 29, 2007
  35. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Yeah but, no but, yeah but....

    Lets say it "pre-determines" you win 100 coins, but the maximum win on the smallest bonus option is 80 coins, and you pick it. You can't possibly win 100 coins. So what does it do? It cant pay you the 100 coins so it has no choice but to redetermine what you win, surely?!

    Actually, the "slot reels mapping" thread may have the answer...the guys in there can trap the incoming data, so they could probably spot packets of data coming in during the bonus round.
     
  36. Aug 29, 2007
  37. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    This is not correct! Cleopatra is a perfect example of how 5-reel slots should be.
    Every spin (also in feature mode) is uniformly random over each reel. I even got the ITG internal lab papers on it specifying how it works and a mathematical description of how to calculate win from the bonus game in a similar way I do.
    The papers proved IGT knows exactly knowns what they are doing and they have been doing it for many years before MG figured out how to make
    fair non-weighted 5-reel slots.

    Zoozie
     
    2 people like this.
  38. Aug 29, 2007
  39. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    In Vegas, maybe... Maybe even online. There's no possible way though that a UK B&M slot can pay out more than 500 on a single spin/feature. So it either must cap the winnings at 500 - or pre-determine the amount.
     

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