Casino Complaint Help please advice needed re complaint against 32 Red

[Deepest Despair]

Hi

First time poster and have been reading this forum for a few weeks now. During this time I have had an ongoing complaint with 32 RED. I have an email chain of at least 20 back and forths between myself and the company. I've contacted privately the REP on this site and I've also reached out to IBAS and am now posting here for some advice.

Its a really long story but I'll try and make it as succinct as possible.

I am an addict. Not just a gambling addict but an addict in general. I had a real hard time many years ago gambling more than I could afford. I worked in the gambling industry for a leading company managing the contact centre so was always surrounded by gambling.

Anyway a beautiful miracle happened to me. I met the love of my life and she saved me from myself and my addiction. For the last 3 years whilst I'd placed the odd football accumulator and grand national bet I had control and my addiction seemed gone.

Earlier this year my wife and I found out some devastating news coupled with me being made redundant. My self esteem was at an all time low whilst she went out to work and I sat at home with time on my hands, money in the bank and nothing to do with my spare time.

I started to gamble and place bets. Mostly in casinos playing blackjack and I begun to lose more than I could afford and it spiralled out of control. Trying to rectify the damage I contacted PlayTech and asked to be excluded from all their operators. I started speaking to GA and contacted GamCare.

During my email with 32RED they advised that I had an account with them in 2012 which they closed for "worrying and concerning comments I had made early in the hours of the morning back in 2012"
This was during my addiction and I had no recollection of this at all. I asked what the comments were and why the account had been closed and they refused to share that info instead saying I had to submit a subject access form for £10 and wait 40 days.

During this time I reached out to a national newspaper, explaining the turn of events that my wife and I were going through and that I had an addiction. I felt that an operator I had gambled with acted irresponsibly and I wanted to share this story. I didn't for a moment think they would be interested but I was contacted within an hour by a journalist who was planning to write an article on addiction, drugs, alcohol and my gambling addiction.
I was scared about speaking with them in case I had to disclose my identity but through sharing some of the details I was advised I would be paid for my story.

During this time the email replies from 32RED were becoming more aggressive and made some assumptions about me "threatening them". One manager in particular was really aggressive and it seemed personal on his part.

Yesterday the journalist contacted 32RED and was told the request for their side of the story would be passed on to higher management and they would contact me as their customer as they could not share details with anyone else due to data protection.

The newspaper is now setting me a fast approaching deadline to meet with them face to face to get my story. I have also been promised £5000 when it is published.
I do not want to go down this route but need the money to cover my losses. pay my mortgage and get out of this game once and for good.
Yesterday 32 RED agreed to share with me all correspondence I had asked for, without charging me £10 and no longer any need for a subject access form. I was confused why this change in stance had happened and thought it was related to the press enquiry.

Anyway as I expected the original livechat between myself and them in 2012 was really damning. I copy it below for your perusal. In short my contention is that 32RED knew i was a problem gambler, had taken the unusual decision to exclude my account on responsible gambling grounds themselves as they believed I had a gambling problem. They sent me gambling advice and told me not to gamble with them anymore.

I opened an account with them last month ( against their rules of 1 account per customer) allowed me to gamble and lose money. When i emailed and told them this story and I was an addict they allowed me to keep my account open, sent me bonus and promotion emails and I continued to deposit and gamble more money.

Chasing my losses like the addict I am I tried to log on and deposit more but found they had closed my account. When I asked why they told me they felt i had a gambling problem.

They insisted I filled in the self exclusion form for weeks but once I had lost thousands more pounds during the email chain they then suddenly closed the account themselves.

I said I'd try and be succinct, obviously failed there.

ADVICE

Do I try and resolve between myself and 32RED one last time? Ask for my losses back and sign a non disclosure if they decide to offer this as a resolution?
Do I give my story to the paper on Monday and take the money from them? Covers my losses but I'm worried friends and family will read it unless I am anonymous.
Have 32RED acted irresponsibly and broken any rules or licensing agreement?

LIVECHAT TRANSCRIPT

26/02/2012 01:04:09

Ben : Hi ####, how can I help?

Player : please self exclude my account

Player : ban me from being able to play

Player : permanent

Ben : In order to exclude from 32Red you will need to read the exclusion policy online here;

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

where you will find detailed explanation of the exclusion process and in addition how to request your 32Red account be close via the exclusion policy

Player : ok so u will not close my account per my request on here

Player : so its 59 mins past midnite and i have asked to exclude

Ben : You will need to read through and request exclusion as per the sites terms of use

Player : i have made u aware of my problem

Player : any money i may lose now i hope i dont

Ben : once you request exclusion in the correct manor your account will be closed

Player : ok

Ben : I have advised you how to exclude

Ben : so we are not liable for any further deposits you make

Player : i will try and win some money back forst

Player : im out of contorol



Thanks in advance

 

[dunover]

Hi

First time poster and have been reading this forum for a few weeks now. During this time I have had an ongoing complaint with 32 RED. I have an email chain of at least 20 back and forths between myself and the company. I've contacted privately the REP on this site and I've also reached out to IBAS and am now posting here for some advice.

Its a really long story but I'll try and make it as succinct as possible.

I am an addict. Not just a gambling addict but an addict in general. I had a real hard time many years ago gambling more than I could afford. I worked in the gambling industry for a leading company managing the contact centre so was always surrounded by gambling.

Anyway a beautiful miracle happened to me. I met the love of my life and she saved me from myself and my addiction. For the last 3 years whilst I'd placed the odd football accumulator and grand national bet I had control and my addiction seemed gone.

Earlier this year my wife and I found out some devastating news coupled with me being made redundant. My self esteem was at an all time low whilst she went out to work and I sat at home with time on my hands, money in the bank and nothing to do with my spare time.

I started to gamble and place bets. Mostly in casinos playing blackjack and I begun to lose more than I could afford and it spiralled out of control. Trying to rectify the damage I contacted PlayTech and asked to be excluded from all their operators. I started speaking to GA and contacted GamCare.

During my email with 32RED they advised that I had an account with them in 2012 which they closed for "worrying and concerning comments I had made early in the hours of the morning back in 2012"
This was during my addiction and I had no recollection of this at all. I asked what the comments were and why the account had been closed and they refused to share that info instead saying I had to submit a subject access form for £10 and wait 40 days.

During this time I reached out to a national newspaper, explaining the turn of events that my wife and I were going through and that I had an addiction. I felt that an operator I had gambled with acted irresponsibly and I wanted to share this story. I didn't for a moment think they would be interested but I was contacted within an hour by a journalist who was planning to write an article on addiction, drugs, alcohol and my gambling addiction.
I was scared about speaking with them in case I had to disclose my identity but through sharing some of the details I was advised I would be paid for my story.

During this time the email replies from 32RED were becoming more aggressive and made some assumptions about me "threatening them". One manager in particular was really aggressive and it seemed personal on his part.

Yesterday the journalist contacted 32RED and was told the request for their side of the story would be passed on to higher management and they would contact me as their customer as they could not share details with anyone else due to data protection.

The newspaper is now setting me a fast approaching deadline to meet with them face to face to get my story. I have also been promised £5000 when it is published.
I do not want to go down this route but need the money to cover my losses. pay my mortgage and get out of this game once and for good.
Yesterday 32 RED agreed to share with me all correspondence I had asked for, without charging me £10 and no longer any need for a subject access form. I was confused why this change in stance had happened and thought it was related to the press enquiry.

Anyway as I expected the original livechat between myself and them in 2012 was really damning. I copy it below for your perusal. In short my contention is that 32RED knew i was a problem gambler, had taken the unusual decision to exclude my account on responsible gambling grounds themselves as they believed I had a gambling problem. They sent me gambling advice and told me not to gamble with them anymore.

I opened an account with them last month ( against their rules of 1 account per customer) allowed me to gamble and lose money. When i emailed and told them this story and I was an addict they allowed me to keep my account open, sent me bonus and promotion emails and I continued to deposit and gamble more money.

Chasing my losses like the addict I am I tried to log on and deposit more but found they had closed my account. When I asked why they told me they felt i had a gambling problem.

They insisted I filled in the self exclusion form for weeks but once I had lost thousands more pounds during the email chain they then suddenly closed the account themselves.

I said I'd try and be succinct, obviously failed there.

ADVICE

Do I try and resolve between myself and 32RED one last time? Ask for my losses back and sign a non disclosure if they decide to offer this as a resolution?
Do I give my story to the paper on Monday and take the money from them? Covers my losses but I'm worried friends and family will read it unless I am anonymous.
Have 32RED acted irresponsibly and broken any rules or licensing agreement?

LIVECHAT TRANSCRIPT

26/02/2012 01:04:09

Ben : Hi ####, how can I help?

Player : please self exclude my account

Player : ban me from being able to play

Player : permanent

Ben : In order to exclude from 32Red you will need to read the exclusion policy online here;

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

where you will find detailed explanation of the exclusion process and in addition how to request your 32Red account be close via the exclusion policy

Player : ok so u will not close my account per my request on here

Player : so its 59 mins past midnite and i have asked to exclude

Ben : You will need to read through and request exclusion as per the sites terms of use

Player : i have made u aware of my problem

Player : any money i may lose now i hope i dont

Ben : once you request exclusion in the correct manor your account will be closed

Player : ok

Ben : I have advised you how to exclude

Ben : so we are not liable for any further deposits you make

Player : i will try and win some money back forst

Player : im out of contorol



Thanks in advance

Perhaps you weren't living in the right 'manor' when you asked to exclude!

Seriously though I believe this may be due to the fact that a maximum SE usually lasts for 5 years? It seems that 5 years had passed since your SE in which it has to be said 32Red did act responsibly and exclude you.

Now there have been numerous comments on here about 32Red's slow and convoluted e-mail exclusion process which is not what you need when in the 'panic zone' like you were recently and wanted the account excluded immediately which on 95% of sites you can do yourself and instantly. So there's no dispute about your story there and the problems it caused you, like I said we've had this one before and it's disgusting frankly things are still like that.

The crux of this may be that you weren't actually excluded at the time of your gambling, so were able to play again, and once they became aware of this they shut your account which is correct. Now if you had definitely opened another account and played while excluded, your bets should have been voided and deposits returned along with the account being shut, but then again had you won you would have expected to be paid surely, on the grounds that your last SE had expired?

IF you had e-mailed through the official 32Red SE process and were then allowed to continue to gamble then yes, you have a very valid beef but I'm not sure you did by reading the OP.

It's not helped your case by going to the press instead of using official procedures first but you could try and raise a PAB with Max here to investigate this and see were the confusion occurred. I will say again that the delayed SE is very bad, as in the time it takes for it to be actioned the problem gambler could go from in trouble with losses, to the point of personal crisis and hardship. Given recent press articles about the amount of revenue casinos take from problem gamblers it does make me wonder about any sites that don't have instant self-set SE.

I would recommend you try and resolve this matter amicably via PAB - flogging your story for 5k doesn't make your case any more valid and could lead to allegations the 5k is more important to you than the truth and a meaningful resolution and establishment of the facts.

https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

 

[colinsunderland]

Player : i will try and win some money back forst

Player : im out of contorol

The account should have been blocked before that part of the chat, but at that point the live chat rep 100% should have stopped any further deposits.

32Reds RG policy is shit, and that live chat is disgusting when you consider the account was clearly left open at that point. If someone contacts a casino clearly stating they have a problem and are out of control, my view is no further wagering should be allowed, full stop.

OP go to the paper and take the money, it won't hurt your case in anything else you do, and if you need it then you will get it much quicker than waiting for a casino to maybe give you some money back.

When you did the SAR, how long did it should the self exclusion was for? When you signed up for a new account were all (or at least the main) details the same?

 

[Dinahnana]

While I congratulate you on dealing with your addiction head on OP I think your approach of blackmailing the casino into giving your money back is wrong. Lets face it telling a casino to "give me my money back or I will go to the papers" is blackmail plain and simple. I would suggest you either do what Dunover suggested or just go to the papers and have your addiction story told. It could help others, if the paper is a good one and not a tabloid that is. Anyway I agree with Dunover about 32Red archaic SE policies and that there are official ways to handle this matter and resolving it in an amicable way.

32 Red is in the wrong by not closing your account when you first contacted them and unless you put false data on your account when you opened a new one they shouldn't have allowed that or at least returned your deposits as soon as they figured it out.

As an addict you must know that you are responsible for your own actions and not put all the blame on the casino. You knowingly opened a new account so some responsibility has to lie with you.

Again I am not bashing you and do think 32Red's SE policies need to be drastically overhauled and be brought into the 21'st century, I just think you are going about getting your money back in a distasteful manner. If you had just gone to the paper to have your story told that would have been okay but you are holding that impending article over the casinos head and that is wrong in my opinion. You should get your money back and if you do as Dunover says you ought to.

 

[Casinomeister]

Deepest Despair - sorry to hear of your problems - but I hope you are not being economical with the truth. I hope we can either help or find answers for you.

@ the rest of you lot, please don't make rash judgements when you are seeing what may be only a piece of the situation. Especially you senior members who should know better.

 

[Dinahnana]

Deepest Despair - sorry to hear of your problems - but I hope you are not being economical with the truth. I hope we can either help or find answers for you.

@ the rest of you lot, please don't make rash judgements when you are seeing what may be only a piece of the situation. Especially you senior members who should know better.

Sorry Bryan didn't mean to come off as being judgemental just offering my personal opinion based on what the op posted.

 

[Casinomeister]

Sorry Bryan didn't mean to come off as being judgemental just offering my personal opinion based on what the op posted.

No worries 'bout dat. Just so you take everything with a grain of salt until the fat lady sings.

Hi

First time poster and have been reading this forum for a few weeks now. During this time I have had an ongoing complaint with 32 RED. I have an email chain of at least 20 back and forths between myself and the company. I've contacted privately the REP on this site and I've also reached out to IBAS and am now posting here for some advice....

Actually, I would encourage you to submit a PAB so that we can present this case to the casino and find out what exactly happened and what can be done.

 

[Steviedoo]

why is it...that when someone contacts 32red chat services and says...i have a gambling problem....i need to self exclude...why cant they immediately block the account for a couple of days until he does fill out the paperwork of SE? they block accounts left, right and center when they suspect fraud and for lesser infractions and stupidities.......why can't they do it immediately?

i find it irresponsible of 32red regardless if the OP is right or wrong.....when going to chat services and saying...i have a gambling problem and want to self exclude...it should immediately be treated like they do fraud cases...and suspend/block the account...and wait for the SE paperwork....this makes no sense to me.

and if he goes to the papers and gets 5k for the story...what damage will this do to 32red? probably none....but it might change the way 32 red treat these cases when presented with problem gamblers at the level of chat services...

 

[Dinahnana]

why is it...that when someone contacts 32red chat services and says...i have a gambling problem....i need to self exclude...why cant they immediately block the account for a couple of days until he does fill out the paperwork of SE? they block accounts left, right and center when they suspect fraud and for lesser infractions and stupidities.......why can't they do it immediately?

i find it irresponsible of 32red regardless if the OP is right or wrong.....when going to chat services and saying...i have a gambling problem and want to self exclude...it should immediately be treated like they do fraud cases...and suspend/block the account...and wait for the SE paperwork....this makes no sense to me.

and if he goes to the papers and gets 5k for the story...what damage will this do to 32red? probably none....but it might change the way 32 red treat these cases when presented with problem gamblers at the level of chat services...

Totally agree with your points with regards to the SE issue your logic cannot be faulted. Accounts ought to be locked immediately when a player admits they have a gambling problem and then sort out the paperwork.

 

[Adam Randall]

I am an addict myself not gambling so much although I probably need to keep an eye on things there, mainly drugs & also water zumba

I am good with it and do not intend to give them up, it is part of my life but I use them to get through the day which makes me an addict

I know deep down that it is up to me and nobody else to stop, I can if I want to or have the right reason, maybe that may happen at some point or maybe it will not but it is my responsibility for being where I am in life

Being honest about it, you used that form as an excuse to try and deflect responsibility for your actions, its a bit like the drink spiking myth, you get smashed drinking too much and run down the street naked and have sex with a goat & you are made to feel great shame within yourself but if someone shoved something in your drink then you get a free pass on being responsible for it

It might be harsh & unfair but at any time you can say no if you want, any moment of the day, the fact you don't is your choice & not a single other person on the planet or organisation is even partially responsible for where you are

I can understand going after them for some cash as a strategy & if its a big casino that makes a lot of money then I do not really have much issue with it, they operate with the knowledge their product creates quite a bit of misery in the community, my issue is with the deep down understanding that you are the only person responsible for where you are in life

Some of the most successful people on the planet would love nothing more than to give control away and become a hopeless gambling crack addict but they use discipline to stay focused and not slide, there are no level playing fields, some will have a tougher time than others but maybe the person that does not give in to temptation is practicing 5 times the will power you are to stay on the right track, who really knows

 

[dunover]

I am an addict myself not gambling so much although I probably need to keep an eye on things there, mainly drugs & also water zumba

I am good with it and do not intend to give them up, it is part of my life but I use them to get through the day which makes me an addict

I know deep down that it is up to me and nobody else to stop, I can if I want to or have the right reason, maybe that may happen at some point or maybe it will not but it is my responsibility for being where I am in life

Being honest about it, you used that form as an excuse to try and deflect responsibility for your actions, its a bit like the drink spiking myth, you get smashed drinking too much and run down the street naked and have sex with a goat & you are made to feel great shame within yourself but if someone shoved something in your drink then you get a free pass on being responsible for it

It might be harsh & unfair but at any time you can say no if you want, any moment of the day, the fact you don't is your choice & not a single other person on the planet or organisation is even partially responsible for where you are

I can understand going after them for some cash as a strategy & if its a big casino that makes a lot of money then I do not really have much issue with it, they operate with the knowledge their product creates quite a bit of misery in the community, my issue is with the deep down understanding that you are the only person responsible for where you are in life

Some of the most successful people on the planet would love nothing more than to give control away and become a hopeless gambling crack addict but they use discipline to stay focused and not slide, there are no level playing fields, some will have a tougher time than others but maybe the person that does not give in to temptation is practicing 5 times the will power you are to stay on the right track, who really knows

I ahem, am asking you kindly if you can delete that bit of CCTV footage. I promise not to drink Stella ever again.

 

[Deepest Despair]

STRUGGLING SO MUCH THIS MORNING
PLEASE HELP
CAN SOMEONE SEND ME LINK FOR PAB SO I CAN TRY

 

[KasinoKing]

STRUGGLING SO MUCH THIS MORNING
PLEASE HELP
CAN SOMEONE SEND ME LINK FOR PAB SO I CAN TRY

To submit your PAB, click here: Player Arbitration
Be sure to read ALL the terms for submitting a PAB, including the Frequently Asked Questions here: PAB FAQs

It's at the very top of the form - the tab marked "Casino Complaints".

Good luck
KK

 

[maxd]

PAB was received but was incomplete and needed additional input from the OP. We've asked for that info twice now, no response yet received.

 

[petro]

I read OPs post and I think what's happened:
32Red has a different self-exclusion process than OP expected. I think most players here are familiar with 32Red's process.
The only argument I think OP has against 32Red is that in his opinion (and in my opinion) 32Red's self-exclusion process should be improved.

Is that a justification to give back all the guy's losses? Probably not, but I would urge 32Red to improve their SE process before more of this happens.

Also, there is the question; is just telling live chat you have a gambling addiction enough indication? I'm pretty confident it is, maybe some additional details are needed to confirm the identity.

 

[Deepest Despair]

Have responded regarding the PAB
Just been so low and struggling in a dark place.
What dealing with 32Red has cost me everything.
Hard to find a reason.

 

[maxd]

Have responded regarding the PAB ...

I think you are mistaken. We've had one reply from you since we asked and that was empty, just a quote of our message to you.

In any case I've discussed the matter in detail with the casino people and will be sending you my conclusions shortly.

Suffice it to say that regardless of your troubles you do still have the responsibility to follow the procedures given to you by the casino. If you refuse the responsibility falls on you, not the casino.