Casino Complaint Help from experienced members required concerning Guts/Rizk

taximania123

Experienced Member
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Jul 2, 2013
Location
uk
Hi All , i hope i am in the correct place to ask for some advice and that you can take a few minutes to post a reply .

I had accounts at Rizk and Guts .
I started playing at guts in the afternoon depositing somewhere in the region of £600 , as per usual the deposits slowly drained away after 6 hours or so.
I left my computer and went for a coffee , when i returned i had been logged out , when i attempted to log back in it said 'user is self excluded '
I went on to chat and they said i was self excluded from Rizk and because of that i could not play at any of the company sites .
I argued that i was cooling off and not self excluded but the chat rep was adamant and informed me that all accounts were now locked ...at this point i simply said well in that case you may as well close them permanently as i have been playing the same game for 6 hours and now i have no chance to recover any of those funds.
.............
The next day i sent a message to both reps ...both replied saying that cooling off and self excluded are dealt with in the same manner but the captain did stress that he would 'sort this to my satisfaction ' and ask what outcome would be suitable to me ........after 3 days and no email i asked again today and received the reply to the effect off ...this isnt my problem please deal with Guts ( fair enough)
...................
So my question is :

As they considered me to be self excluded i would not have been entitled to any winnings ....if that is correct then surely they should return the deposits as there was never any upside for me ?

It may well be that i am wrong (but it seems logical as the casino cant have it both ways ) , i would accept that i am wrong if the consensus on here is that i have misread the situation ....please let me know your thoughts .

One final point ...guts initial response was very succinct and to the point without offering any real solution or advice . the Captains emails were very helpful and full of promise and left me in no doubt that this would be resolved , however todays reply was more or less 'not my problem ' ...its easy to promise action but to be exceptional you need to deliver !

Finally :
I have asked the question ...If i had won would you have paid me ...i have not received a reply , the question was ignored .

Thanks
copy of my latest message to gut is CC below ( i will not paste PM's to me unless i am allowed to do so).
 

taximania123

Experienced Member
MM
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Location
uk
my final pm

Hi , i have heard back from the captain and i believe he is going to to email you , he has passed the situation on to you and feels its not an issue he can deal with .
Here is where i stand and i would like a final summary of your position by return please .
In the previous correspondence i was advised that self exclusion and cooling off are treated in exactly the same way
As i understand it my account was closed after the casino received 6/7 deposits from me and then discovered i was cooling off /self excluded at Rizk , at this point i was told via chat that this would apply to all group sites and i told the rep that if that was the case he may as well go ahead and close all of my accounts .
It would appear that if at that time i had been holding a large profit i would not have been entitled to payment and the casino would have simply returned my deposits , in that case the deposits i had made up to the point of access being removed would seem to be null and void as there was never any possibility of my winning any money ?
Under those circumstances i would like to request the return of my funds as it would seem unfair that the casino can void any winnings but also keep any deposits made .
Perhaps you would be good enough to look into this and give me a definitive decision ?
Finally i would just like to remind you that we have been discussing this for many days now and the promise to 'make things good ' has not been honoured.
Rgds
C Fellows
 

Jono777

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Tirilej

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It's silly if they are calling it a cooling off period if it's in fact are short self exclusion. They have to name it for what it is.

I can't say much more because I suspect that I don't have the same rules as you have, since I'm not in the uk.
Is it mention that there are three casinos and that if you SE from one you are also SE'd from the others? If not I do hope they are fast with fixing that.
 

Jono777

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Personally I think these are 2 of the finest run casinos that exist so am very surprised that you find yourself in this situation.

They would (IMO) have pulled out all the stops to find an amicable solution to your problem.

Only thing left to do is PAB (which I hate recommending against well run casinos)

Please read the PAB FAQ before doing so if you do take this route.
 

taximania123

Experienced Member
MM
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Location
uk
Personally I think these are 2 of the finest run casinos that exist so am very surprised that you find yourself in this situation.

They would (IMO) have pulled out all the stops to find an amicable solution to your problem.

Only thing left to do is PAB (which I hate recommending against well run casinos)

Please read the PAB FAQ before doing so if you do take this route.


Thanks ...i do have that final message pending so it would seem churlish to pab at this stage ...its possible that they may resolve it and we can all go home happy but after receiving the Captains message today im a little less hopeful As you say these are respectable people and i would hope for an outcome . A little concerning tho that the question 'would you have paid my winnings ' has been ignored ...more or less an answer in itself :)
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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account closure should not be any problem . it should be straight forward you shouldn't even have to supply a reason , just because you want your account closed does not mean that you have a gambling problem , there are many reasons & ive closed a fair amount of accounts over the years. self excluded from 4 in all , nothing to do with a gambling problem mainly to do with feeling shafted by lack of loyalty . crap promos if any & really poor play , im not sure why the casinos always seem to think all players have a gambling problem & always pretty much assume this is the reason , cooling down period clearly isn't a gambling problem in fact it shows your aware that you've indulged far to much.

A heads up for all the casinos online.
 

dunover

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It's silly if they are calling it a cooling off period if it's in fact are short self exclusion. They have to name it for what it is.

I can't say much more because I suspect that I don't have the same rules as you have, since I'm not in the uk.
Is it mention that there are three casinos and that if you SE from one you are also SE'd from the others? If not I do hope they are fast with fixing that.

Yes. The UK differentiates between SE and cooling-off. The former prevents gambling under that license (or should do if the licensees exercise due diligence!!) while the latter is a break from play not necessarily for gambling reasons and does not affect the depositor's ability to play and withdraw at another site under that license.

Of course the same old shit is occurring.

Casinos don't know the difference, some players don't and the biggest problem by far seems to be occurring now at Guts' license as well as the EM license - the total lack of will to put a simple checking mechanism in place (which most reputable licensees have, and have done so for years) which will prevent sign-ups by SE players.

It is high time the UKGC forced licensees to have this in place so players do not get as far as opening an account, let alone depositing and God forbid winning then being told to whistle for their winnings and grudgingly pay deposits back if asked. I reckon the UKGC assumes licensees do this, because the majority do. Obviously EM and Guts don't.

This situation is pathetic now. I'm sick of it. It's so easy to resolve, but I guess money talks louder.

P.S. On a personal level, I have tried logging into Guts occasionally for months only to be given the 'player self-excluded' message. Apparently though, I have NOT been SE'd since October 4!!! I was allowed to open an account at Rizk despite getting this message at Guts at the same time! The Rizk CS agent then opened my Guts account back up for me as he claimed there was an error on Guts' part.

I have had enough of this nonsense. This time I WILL SE from the lot of them. I won't play at any licensee's casino that is pulling the EM stunt. IMO this is unworthy behaviour of any accredited casino.
 

taximania123

Experienced Member
MM
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Location
uk
account closure should not be any problem . it should be straight forward you shouldn't even have to supply a reason , just because you want your account closed does not mean that you have a gambling problem , there are many reasons & ive closed a fair amount of accounts over the years. self excluded from 4 in all , nothing to do with a gambling problem mainly to do with feeling shafted by lack of loyalty . crap promos if any & really poor play , im not sure why the casinos always seem to think all players have a gambling problem & always pretty much assume this is the reason , cooling down period clearly isn't a gambling problem in fact it shows your aware that you've indulged far to much.

A heads up for all the casinos online.

Thanks ...any thoughts ....would they have paid the winnings automatically (without a complaint forcing them to) or just returned funds ? If its just a return of funds am i being unreasonable to expect it to work both ways ?
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
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Thanks ...any thoughts ....would they have paid the winnings automatically (without a complaint forcing them to) or just returned funds ? If its just a return of funds am i being unreasonable to expect it to work both ways ?

Did you use the cool off for 7 days or did you self exclude?
 

taximania123

Experienced Member
MM
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Location
uk
Yes. The UK differentiates between SE and cooling-off. The former prevents gambling under that license (or should do if the licensees exercise due diligence!!) while the latter is a break from play not necessarily for gambling reasons and does not affect the depositor's ability to play and withdraw at another site under that license.

Of course the same old shit is occurring.

Casinos don't know the difference, some players don't and the biggest problem by far seems to be occurring now at Guts' license as well as the EM license - the total lack of will to put a simple checking mechanism in place (which most reputable licensees have, and have done so for years) which will prevent sign-ups by SE players.

It is high time the UKGC forced licensees to have this in place so players do not get as far as opening an account, let alone depositing and God forbid winning then being told to whistle for their winnings and grudgingly pay deposits back if asked. I reckon the UKGC assumes licensees do this, because the majority do. Obviously EM and Guts don't.

This situation is pathetic now. I'm sick of it. It's so easy to resolve, but I guess money talks louder.




P.S. On a personal level, I have tried logging into Guts occasionally for months only to be given the 'player self-excluded' message. Apparently though, I have NOT been SE'd since October 4!!! I was allowed to open an account at Rizk despite getting this message at Guts at the same time! The Rizk CS agent then opened my Guts account back up for me as he claimed there was an error on Guts' part.

I have had enough of this nonsense. This time I WILL SE from the lot of them. I won't play at any licensee's casino that is pulling the EM stunt. IMO this is unworthy behaviour of any accredited casino.


Thanks ...am i being unreasonable though ?
ps message from casino (i will delete if its not allowed )


however in terms of the regulations they should both be treated the same way - by which i mean you ban yourself from one then you ban yourself from all related casino's until the period of the first "cooling off" period expires at which point you should be allowed access to them all again
 

dunover

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Thanks ...any thoughts ....would they have paid the winnings automatically (without a complaint forcing them to) or just returned funds ? If its just a return of funds am i being unreasonable to expect it to work both ways ?

Nope. That you even get close to a situation where it "can work both ways" is down to the lack of due diligence by the licensee. By rights you should simply get deposits returned, win or lose, no more no less. All your bets are technically void as are all money transactions. Parity should be restored and your account shut.
 

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
Thanks ...any thoughts ....would they have paid the winnings automatically (without a complaint forcing them to) or just returned funds ? If its just a return of funds am i being unreasonable to expect it to work both ways ?

Not sure as i'm not a operator , i will say though guts is a good casino & do believe there fair , rizk although run by same i couldn't say as i've only just started playing there , yet to see a withdrawal etc etc.

I hope you would see your deposits back if it was the case , just await the reps to see the outcome , i'm sure either way they would do the right thing. all the best with it keep us updated )
 

taximania123

Experienced Member
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Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Location
uk
Did you use the cool off for 7 days or did you self exclude?

As far as i was concerned i was cooling off a far as they were concerned that is the same as SE ...even now they are all showing as self excluded in response to my 'well if thats the case just close my accounts' it was only when it was brought to my attention that winnings would never have been paid that i thought that was a little unfair ...any thoughts ?

message from casino :
however in terms of the regulations they should both be treated the same way - by which i mean you ban yourself from one then you ban yourself from all related casino's until the period of the first "cooling off" period expires at which point you should be allowed access to them all again
 

RichyJ75

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Ok, interesting reading this. I have a Guts account currently in SE mode - I used the SE option as I (incorrectly) thought Guts were related to another casino which I was SE at, so closed Guts down to be on the safe side as didn't want any issues on withdrawals.

If Rizk are operating on the same licence/group, I opened an account here and lost a few hundred pound while Guts account was SE. I was not aware of them being linked, etc, so would my winnings have been confiscated as well? If so, why was my account allowed to be opened and deposits made? Haven't been informed of any potential issues.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Harry_BKK

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WTF is going on? :what: :mad:

We have now nearly more threads with SE mess than other stuff, which at least would be interesting to read.

I am getting sick and tired of casinos letting people register, deposit, play and then after days or when it comes to a withdrawal - "whooops, you are SE'ed at XYZ, we keep your deposits and void the winnings!!!"

Put this in front of a court and it will never stand!!! Period!!!

No matter how good the standing of Guts/Rizk/Betspin here at CM is, but this is becoming a second EM nightmare. Why on earth can't they crosscheck records when an account is opened. Only takes a split of a second with today's technology - one blip to the database and one blip back telling the "new player" - "sorry but your are SE'ed at XYZ, you can't register with us" - simple and effective. :rolleyes:

As i have said now many times this must be very profitable for casino operators as not many players will come to CM or AG or ThePogg and complain. They will take it on the chin that the money is gone.

PURE GREED FROM THE CASINOS!!! :mad:

I was told that many players are abusing the system by doing a SE on one casino and then play with no risk at the other. Well, do your crosscheck at registration and NOBODY can abuse it!!!! :rolleyes: :eek:
 

taximania123

Experienced Member
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Joined
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Location
uk
casinos view on a refund

Nope. That you even get close to a situation where it "can work both ways" is down to the lack of due diligence by the licensee. By rights you should simply get deposits returned, win or lose, no more no less. All your bets are technically void as are all money transactions. Parity should be restored and your account shut.

From guts
refunds, though, can only be issues if there was a long technical delay that allowed you to play when you shouldn't have been able to - as far as i know at least.
 

taximania123

Experienced Member
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Location
uk
Its not my thread KK

Why have you started this SECOND thread about the exact same subject? :confused:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/guts-casino-complaint.72112/?t=72112

You could have just carried on in your original thread.

KK

KK - That not my thread although i concede it covers a similar subject , i could maybe have posted my issue on there but im not sure that would get as many responses as most people have already commented .
I appologise if im clogging up the airways i just assumed it was ok for me to ask my own question rather than simply ask on someone elses thread ?
i see that several people have had similar problems and the the original poster received a refund so i guess as i deposited a much larger amount maybe they are reluctant to respond to my request in the same way ?


From Guts :
refunds, though, can only be issues if there was a long technical delay that allowed you to play when you shouldn't have been able to - as far as i know at least.
 

taximania123

Experienced Member
MM
Joined
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Location
uk
WTF is going on? :what: :mad:

We have now nearly more threads with SE mess than other stuff, which at least would be interesting to read.

I am getting sick and tired of casinos letting people register, deposit, play and then after days or when it comes to a withdrawal - "whooops, you are SE'ed at XYZ, we keep your deposits and void the winnings!!!"

Put this in front of a court and it will never stand!!! Period!!!

No matter how good the standing of Guts/Rizk/Betspin here at CM is, but this is becoming a second EM nightmare. Why on earth can't they crosscheck records when an account is opened. Only takes a split of a second with today's technology - one blip to the database and one blip back telling the "new player" - "sorry but your are SE'ed at XYZ, you can't register with us" - simple and effective. :rolleyes:

As i have said now many times this must be very profitable for casino operators as not many players will come to CM or AG or ThePogg and complain. They will take it on the chin that the money is gone.

PURE GREED FROM THE CASINOS!!! :mad:

I was told that many players are abusing the system by doing a SE on one casino and then play with no risk at the other. Well, do your crosscheck at registration and NOBODY can abuse it!!!! :rolleyes: :eek:


thanks for the input ....i am not really sure i should have been excluded anyway but having excepted the explaination from them that both cooling and SE are treated as the same thing i figured it does not really matter ...just looks like a case of win win for the casino . If i could print the all the messages that have gone between us it would show that there was a significant change in the helpful attitude ...but im still optimistic :)
 

KasinoKing

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KK - That not my thread although i concede it covers a similar subject , i could maybe have posted my issue on there but im not sure that would get as many responses as most people have already commented.
Ooops sorry - my bad! :oops:
It seemed virtually identical and I obviously missed that it was a different OP.
Most haste, less speed! :eek2:

KK
 

dunover

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thanks for the input ....i am not really sure i should have been excluded anyway but having excepted the explaination from them that both cooling and SE are treated as the same thing i figured it does not really matter ...just looks like a case of win win for the casino . If i could print the all the messages that have gone between us it would show that there was a significant change in the helpful attitude ...but im still optimistic :)

Yes, it is. The bigger licensees/bookies will stop these registrations. They have the tools and don't need the revenue. It tends to be the smaller offshore licensees that run the SE scam. Perhaps their smaller size means the benefits of it matter more to their turnover. Who knows for sure?

I am rapidly starting to believe that the SE scam is on par with excessive pending periods for withdrawals as a tool to help a casino's balance sheet.

Dress it up how you like - 'business decision' or whatever. It's BS.
 
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