Help! Cashout problem.. Emailing sensitive documents..

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
BubbleG said:
Look at this way, if, for security of course the casino or the police in the street asked you to jump up and down and touch you left testicle would this too be acceptable? Because it would serve the same purpose. None. I also take it you have never been the victim of any kind of Id fraud, I can tell u its not nice! I hope it doesn't but if it ever does happen to you, you will look back and wonder why and for what purposes all those NON Governmental very commercial COMPANIES wanted with such sensitive personal information and in the wrong hands almost dangerous documents. This kind of thing can occur from the most innocent of requests.

At the end of the day if you give your credit/debit card to pay for a meal at a restaurant you could therefore potentially become a victim of ID Fraud, as the waiting staff have access to your card details.

I hear what you are saying, but rightly or wrongly this is how it is with most online casinos. Even the big UK Online Casinos also request photo ID in the shape of a copy of your passport or ID Card and also will require copies of your cards you use at the casino to protect themselves against money laundering. I certainly know Ladbrokes Casino does this!

If you are unhappy to provide this information, then use neteller as your payment portal. But then, you will have to provide Neteller with copies of your ID.
 

BubbleG

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Earth, man!
Webzcas said:
At the end of the day if you give your credit/debit card to pay for a meal at a restaurant you could therefore potentially become a victim of ID Fraud, as the waiting staff have access to your card details.

Does the restaurant Ever ask for photo ID to acompany the payment? No. Thats not to say the person using the card isnt using it fraudulently. With the card details you can cetainly create a clone card, however, accompanied with passport or other such document a whole new world of fraud becomes possible.


Webzcas said:
I hear what you are saying, but rightly or wrongly this is how it is with most online casinos. Even the big UK Online Casinos also request photo ID in the shape of a copy of your passport or ID Card and also will require copies of your cards you use at the casino to protect themselves against money laundering. I certainly know Ladbrokes Casino does this!

If you are unhappy to provide this information, then use neteller as your payment portal. But then, you will have to provide Neteller with copies of your ID.s.

Although I have an acc I dont know about Laddies, they never asked for a copy of my card when I last deposited. Willhill certainly doesn't, I cashed out 70K in the blink of an eye. I do believe though if I had requested a neteller cashout I would have had to provide ID but I requested the money be paid directly to the debit card used to deposit making a secondary security check uneseccary and they just paid the money. Fantastic!! There is a small write up about the event on willhill.com but they never requested a photo for any purpose.

Referring to the problem. I also requested that neteller be the secondary payment method, selecting neteller certified or not would have had no bearing on the fact the Casino want the information. Having said that I would have much less of a problem providing Neteller with these details because in the UK they are strictly regulated by the FSA as a Banking Institute and will have strict data protection systems in place.

I'm all for security but why should it affect us lowely players? I'd imagine with todays technology the antics of money laundering and evil play should flag up quite quickly. I just wish the security implemented was proportional to what they are securing along with some very common sense on the part of the casino's.
 

Macgyver

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Location
North Carolina
BubbleG said:
Willhill certainly doesn't, I cashed out £70K in the blink of an eye. I do believe though if I had requested a neteller cashout I would have had to provide ID but I requested the money be paid directly to the debit card used to deposit making a secondary security check uneseccary and they just paid the money. Fantastic!! There is a small write up about the event on willhill.com but they never requested a photo for any purpose.

As far as WillHill and NETeller goes, I've never had to provide any type of documentation (photo ID, utility bill, whatever) to WillHill and all of my deposits/withdrawals there have been using NETeller.

Mind you, I prefer not having to provide the documentation, but those casinos who don't ask for it are few and far between. I do agree with other posters that documentation is the norm (at least for right now) and a hoop that just has to be jumped through depending on where you choose to play.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Missing the point.

The point is being missed, the player could not provide a photo ID due to not actually having a legal ID document in a photo form due to legislation not making one necessary. If it is possible to bank, work, enter government premises etc with the paper based stuff, it should be OK for use with a company merely providing ENTERTAINMENT - as they are at great pains to point out in the terms that prohibit play "as a professional player". If they really want a photo, they must be prepared for the player to be able to make one up and have it countersigned in the same way that the original Photo is prepared for a drivers licence. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the US and UK population have NO photo ID due to no requirement for one for their everyday lives. Are casinos saying there is NO OTHER WAY to resolve this other than such persons to refrain from patronising reputable online gaming sites unless/until they are able to come into possession of a photo ID.
As for casinos using the photos?, example here!

"6.10 It is a condition of registration and competition that all winning participants consent to the publication of their first name and initial of last name, State, Country, and further information in reference to the type of competition and how they won in various forms of media as requested by The Casino."
There is at least an indication that a silhouette can replace the photo, but I don't know whether this is default or whether a player must specify that the photo should not be used. Faxes would not be good enough, however casinos would rather have a Jpeg, and often fuss over "illegible" faxes till the player gives up and sends the Jpeg. Paranoid? Maybe, but there is nothing to stop a photo being used if available, and little a player can do if a casino goes ahead and uses one when the player asks them to use a model or silhouette (less reputable, or carelessly administered, casinos may do this). There ARE players who do not want to be seen to be gambling online by someone accidentally coming upon the photo, which along with country, town and first name, would easily be enough to personally identify someone to family, a friend, boss, etc without being able to claim "coincidence".

[Incidentally, "10.7 Winnings paid back via check will not incur a processing fee, however checks sent by courier will incur a fee. For further details on these fees please contact support." - so all those shafted by the $8 check fee should ask for it back:D ]
 

Slotmachine

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
US
Casinomeister said:
Germany is the same thing - if you don't have a picture ID with you, they'll either take you down to the police station or take you home to where you left your wallet :D

Goood heavens. I like Germany, but that sounds absurd, like a police state! There is definitely no such requirement in Finland. That would be outrageous.

:eek:

Cheers,
SM
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
As far as WillHill and NETeller goes, I've never had to provide any type of documentation (photo ID, utility bill, whatever) to WillHill and all of my deposits/withdrawals there have been using NETeller.

Ok let me go into a bit more detail here. When opening an account at Ladbrokes Casino for example, an automated security check is done on the customer - This is to ensure the casino doesn't get hit by chargebacks down the road. Now if a flag is raised during any single one of the many checks, the Security Team then manually email the customer to ask the customer to send in photocopies of their card used for the account and also a form of photopgraphic ID. This is the norm with most Online Casinos.

If however you don't use a card, but a payment wallet such as Neteller, the onus is then on Neteller, Firepay whoever to ensure you are bona fida as it were. Hence on withdrawals back to your neteller account it is very unlikely you will be asked by a casino for additional documents.

Secondly onto Neteller. If you wish to upgrade your account, you do have to supply them with a scan or fax of your passport and also your card.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Slotmachine said:
Goood heavens. I like Germany, but that sounds absurd, like a police state! There is definitely no such requirement in Finland. That would be outrageous.

:eek:

Cheers,
SM
But everybody has one...and we like it :D
 

Slotmachine

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
US
vinylweatherman said:
As for casinos using the photos?, example here!

:lolup: If that's the quality of UK photo ID's, no wonder they'd rather make do without:D

Cheers,
SM
 

BubbleG

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Earth, man!
Webzcas said:
Secondly onto Neteller. If you wish to upgrade your account, you do have to supply them with a scan or fax of your passport and also your card.

I spoke with Neteller yesterday on the phone, the neteller acc is verified using the drivers number provided when opening the account. They have never asked for any further ID. To further enhance the account they security check you by making a small deposit in your bank acc this ammount then needs verifying by you.
 

suzecat

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 18, 2004
Location
California
BubbleG said:
I spoke with Neteller yesterday on the phone, the neteller acc is verified using the drivers number provided when opening the account. They have never asked for any further ID. To further enhance the account they security check you by making a small deposit in your bank acc this ammount then needs verifying by you.

I have a verified Neteller account and have never supplied them with scans of anything. It is as BubbleG said, they make a small deposit to your bank account and you verify ownership/access to the bank account by being able to give Neteller this exact amount. Once verified, you are on your way and no docs are ever needed to be sent.

As far as photo ID, my bank ATM/debit card has my photo on it and I find this reassuring. NO ONE can use this card except me (unless they look like me and write like me). My DL has my photo because that is how they are made in California, even state ID cards have photos. And your photo image is good for at least 10 years as it is stored in their computer and used to reissue your ID should you lose or misplace it.

All this aside and the OP has made legitimate points IMHO, does he want his money or his principles? Now while I might enjoy watching him jump on a street corner touching his left testicle, I do not believe it is unreasonable to require a photo ID to perform a cash transaction. Does all this drama made necessary by crooks and cons just suck? You bet it does. However, it is a part of the world as it now exists and the drama is how the world has dealt with it. Big Brother may want to implant a chip in me someday to verify my identity..........let's just hope it's a $500 one! Until gambling becomes a MANDATORY ACTIVITY, I will continue to jump through a few hoops. It's my choice to play at a casino. It's the casino's choice to have terms, rules and conditions.
 

BubbleG

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Earth, man!
Now resolved! Lesson learned!

Ok the situation is now resolved and I hold no annomosity towards the casino in question, they have resolved my issue. I will just not be returning to any within the group. That said, this is a reputable group yet has some serious communications issues behind closed doors and from a customer service stand point, the Casinomeister knows who it is and I believe it is up to him to decide if these issues need any follow up for the good of all players.

The final laugh was when I logged into neteller earlier today to find the funds had been deposited on the 10th of this month. I actually wrote them a friendly email on the 16th requesting the details of the cashout and they replied with the standard copy paste blurb a few hours later (Yes, really a few hours) saying the money would hit my account in 3 to 5 working days, after calling the bank today I was about to fire off an email when I had the brainwave to check neteller and presto! I dont use neteller very often c and it was only listed as a secondary cashout option. Now, why couldn't the support person have just told me that in the first place?

The lesson learned. Do your own research!! I certainly will be looking deeper into any T & C before opening any new accounts in the future! Dont get sucked in by the flashy banners, bonus offers and other peoples experiences. All the links on this site may take you to reputable casino's but that doesn't mean the first link you click is the best place to play for you personally.

Thanks to PAB, CM and anyone else who advised me through this situation.
 

managra

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Location
USA
Two suggestions, BubbleG:
When depositing at a new casino, use Neteller. Reason being is that if there is a cashout delay because of ID documentation issues, you can request Neteller's Public Relations dept to step in and mediate if you have reached an impasse with the casino. Neteller has done a social security check on you when you opened an account. This mediation process might take a couple of days, not more. Their email address is PR@Neteller.com. I was told this by Neteller's Security Dept the other day when i called them on a potential ID issue. For those not residing in the US, you might want to check with Neteller what Gov't ID/info they checked for you to verify your ID.

If you don't want to use Neteller with a new casino and you have an inkling they might request ID for a (large) cashout, send the ID before making any deposit. Tell them you await their approval of the ID before you make a deposit. You're likely to get a fast reply!
 

suzecat

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 18, 2004
Location
California
BubbleG: glad to hear you are the happy owner of YOUR cash! Kudos to you for confirming that Neteller is the way to go (if you are eligible for an account) instead of jumping through hoops (or street corners) with credit cards/photo IDs/scanned docs/identity chips, etc. etc.

The reality of online gaming is as CM has said many times before: do your research BEFORE you deposit your money. Don't be disappointed or fooled.

Happy gaming! :thumbsup:
 
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