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Help! Cashout problem.. Emailing sensitive documents..

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by BubbleG, Feb 5, 2006.

    Feb 5, 2006
  1. BubbleG

    BubbleG Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    spark
    Location:
    Earth, man!
    Hi all

    I'm currently having a problem cashing out of a casino due to the fact I have no photo ID, I have provided copies of a utility bill and drivers licence but so far they are not accepting the licence even though the drivers number and all other details are perfectly legable and correllate to those on the utility bill and those already provided at registration.

    Here's a brief outline of the situation so far.

    I played at X casino last weekend depositing apr $1200 i finally cashed out sunday evening apr $1205. After the 24hr reverse period is over and my cashout is in process. NO. 48hrs later I get an email from support saying

    "When we performed a routine security check, we noticed that the information registered for your account is incomplete. In order to verify these details and to comply with banking and fraud control rules, we need you to fax us the following documents as soon as possible.

    Full Name
    Residential Address
    Telephone Number
    Copy of a recent Utility Bill, not older than 3 months
    A copy of your drivers license"

    Incomplete information, what BS. They had enough information for it to not be a problem making a deposit!

    Anyway I provided the documents they asked for. Great, cashout is now in process. NO. Another 48hrs later I get an email from support telling me my ID was not acceptable and it should have been a photo ID. WTF I just want my money, so I re check the original email and as thought no where is it mentioned Photo ID just utility bill and drivers licence. Because of the ridiculous reply times I decide to call them, by the end of the call I was almost shouting at the idiot at the other end of the phone and of course there was no one around in the financial department who could speak to me. He re assured me however as soon as possible someone would be intouch. 24hrs passed with no email or nothing from the financial depatment so I emailed again expressing my concerns and to say I the only other piece of official ID I can provide is a copy of my birth certifcate. Another 36 hrs later I get an email from support telling me they are still awaitng response from the financial department and a load of bull telling me they are members of Ecorga blah blah blah and I should see the terms for why I am required to supply these documents.

    A week has now passed and i'm here, the casino in question is on the accredited list (for the life of me with this level of customer service I dont know how) but it is.

    Ive been playng online poker and casino for over 5 years, ive deposited and cashed out well over 20K at inter without ever a hint of a problem, I recently cashed out $118,000 after only my 4th visit to another casino and all the money was in my bank 5 days later. Only once in my life have I been asked to provide documents and this was to due to cashing out over 5k in a month.

    With all this in mind I cant understand what is going on with X casino and was hoping someone might be able to explain. I can understand the issues with regard to money laundering and security but A) This is $1200 not $12,000,000 B) At my request the cashout is going to whence it came, its not like 5k of the visa then cash it straight back out to neteller so the need for extra security is at best negligable imho.

    Thanks for reading, will update as I here from support. I'd also be interested to hear how you feel about emailing sensitive documents to the casinos. Unless there is massive money involved why does it matter, what difference does photo id make to them are they going to make us personal avatars? because knowing what we look like certainly changes nothing with regard to security. Personally I dont feel comfortable providing this information, the banks put in place most of the security required as you would not be able to deposit if name address details etc do not match, also if the funds are going back to same card that deposited them there is simply no need for any extra security.

    Thanks
     
  2. Feb 5, 2006
  3. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Hi BubbleG...I have no idea which casino you are dealing with, but if they are a CM accredited casino, chances are that they may have a rep on the board here. Here is a link to the casino reps who are members here...if you find the one you are looking for, it would be worthwhile to send them a private message. It's a start anyway.

    http://www.casinomeister.com/operators.html
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Feb 5, 2006
  5. mgibson99

    mgibson99 Dormant account

    Location:
    Washington DC
    I'm sure this must be a typo (or some mighty big hype). Unless you had already provided all the documentation previously, I can't imagine any online casino would allow a relatively new player such as yourself to cash out over $100k without verifying your identity and without doing an extremely thorough security check. I'm sorry, this just defies credibility.

    Concerning the issue of providing sensitive information.....we see these posts periodically from people who are upset that a casino would ask for "ID" the first time they go to cashout. Unfortunately, right or wrong, that is just the reality of the online casino world. Many (not all, and maybe not even most) casinos do this. I will never forget my first foray into online gambling. I guess I had beginner's luck, and I hit Golden Palace for $10k right out of the chute. I had to jump through hoops with the documentation, and it took a couple of weeks (actually 6 as I recall), but I got paid. Other casinos I have played at have also had similar requirements for relatively new players. It is such a common requirement, that I have scanned the documents that are usually requested, and have them ready to go via e-mail if I ever play at a new casino and they ask for them on a cashout. Would I prefer not to share this information? Yes. Will I share it if I have to, to get paid? Yes. Will I refuse to play at a casino that asks for documentation the first time I cash out? No.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2006
  6. Feb 5, 2006
  7. BubbleG

    BubbleG Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    spark
    Location:
    Earth, man!
    Thanks Pinababy69, looks like they have a rep so if dont here anything tomorrow via email I will certainly follow your advice..

    mgibson99 see here You must register/login in order to see the link., not so much as congratulation email let alone a security check!!!! $118,000, just under 70,000 UK 's in the bank within 5 days. This is real service!!! I believe it to be a simple case of becuase all the funds went to the account that made the deposit the security check is simply not necessary had I requested a check or neteller then sure I would have expected nothing less.

    As I originally stated im a very experienced online gamer, the problem is I dont have any photo ID. I have no passport and my drivers licence is still the old paper type. In all the years I have been gambling only once have documents been requested, the same copy of the drivers licence was perfectly acceptable then.

    If these casinos are going to request such documentation then they should do it before allowing a deposit, to me this is just another scam, a reason for them to hold the funds back. Also if this is the norm then the automated system should prompt you to forward these documents not some support person 72hrs after the initial withdraw and they should be clearer about what exact documents they want. The casino in question got exactly what they asked for, it then took them a further 48hrs to tell me to tell me they hadnt accepted one of the documents. :what: lol GG.
     
  8. Feb 5, 2006
  9. Daffy

    Daffy Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    middle management
    Location:
    Dallas,TX
    Might expedite matters to go get a passport (w/photo)...

    I know it's an inconvenience...but so is waiting on your cashin...

    I predict you are not going to enjoy "no ID" cashins much longer...all the casinos/sportsbooks/poker rooms seem to be adopting this policy...

    Good Luck,

    the dUck
     
  10. Feb 5, 2006
  11. gcrown

    gcrown Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self
    Location:
    usa
    I am going through big problems with the same stuff after playing for a couple years at the same casino, it will get worse than that they will start asking for more stuff down the road also when you try to cash out larger payouts, plain and simple they will make as hard as possible to get your money back and its just a way to harrass their customers and hold your money owed as ransom to get any info in the world they may ask for you. Good luck and be prepared for more documentation in the future.
     
  12. Feb 5, 2006
  13. occ123

    occ123 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    IT professional
    Location:
    USA
    Maybe I missed something, but doesn't or shouldn't your drivers license have your photo? :confused:
     
  14. Feb 5, 2006
  15. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    No. Very old UK licenses do not have a photo.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Feb 5, 2006
  17. managra

    managra Dormant account

    Occupation:
    finance
    Location:
    USA
    But it shouldn't be. And if such a policy would become the norm, casinos should be able to give assurance that id-theft is not possible (they won't be able to do so). If this would become the norm, there will be very few casinos i will continue to play.

    When you open an account with Neteller, they thoroughly check you out. I would have no objection to making it possible for a casino to verify with neteller your age and any other pertinent (but nothing else!) info. That should suffice the casino. But the main reason for this request of id (typically requested in an email a looong time after you try to withdraw) is just to delay payment.
     
  18. Feb 6, 2006
  19. BubbleG

    BubbleG Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    spark
    Location:
    Earth, man!
    I guess as with most things these days big brother is watchin.........

    I can say with confidence these so called security measures serve no real purpose other than to earn the casino more money :mad: and make things much more difficult than they need to be. They certainly dont stop the evil ones in their quest to destroy the few good things left in this world :mad:
     
  20. Feb 6, 2006
  21. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    How can you not have an ID?

    Sorry you feel that casinos are out to screw you over just because they require you to provide a copy of your ID. It would probably make your life a lot simpler to get a passport or other official ID. It's beyond me how anyone could not have something like this. In most countries, it's required by law.

    As I mention in the "Accredited Casinos" section:

    Before opening an account, make sure you have a copy of your passport/drivers license handy as a jpg. Also, scan a recent copy of a utility bill that includes your address as well as a scanned copy of your credit card (if a credit card is being used). Have these documents saved as JPG files, so you can simply attach them to an e-mail. No need for international faxes and "unclear" documents.

    If you don't have these documents, then there is no one to blame but yourself. FYI, casinos that fall under eCOGRA's wing are required to request these documents. Even I "the Casinomeister" have to provide these documents periodically, and I have no qualms in doing so.

    As for the comments that casinos don't ask for IDs upon depositing, well this has been hashed out here a number of times. To do so would be suicidal for the casino since players want to play NOW and not next week. Players would pass these ID requiring casinos up and play at the casinos that didn't ask for this.
     
  22. Feb 6, 2006
  23. BubbleG

    BubbleG Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    spark
    Location:
    Earth, man!
    Sorry CM, I respect you very much but that is not what I mean. You cant deny however a side effect of these measures earns the casino money pure and simple. Please explain to me as i'm surely missing something here. But how do these measures make life better and more secure for us law abiding players including yourself. All these measures would be great if they actually stopped the real problems but they dont. Any real terrorist, money launderer, gangster, fraudster, evil player, everyone the casino and big brother really want to keep out more than likely already have all the fake documents they need to carry on their business unhindered.

    And whats the deal with photo ID. I'm not coming through passport control! I'm playing a casino. What difference does having a photo make? I thought I had all the "official" ID I needed, its enuff for life here in the UK just not enuff to cash out of a casino. LOOOOOOOOOOL. Also as an AC casino would you not expect a better customer service than taking up wards of 48hrs to respond to an email, 72 hrs to request the documnets, 48 hrs to tell me they not accepted, 72 hrs have now passed and still no reply on my request as to whether a birth certificate is acceptable..... If this is acceptable for an AC casino sorry but it doesn't do much for the integrity of list :(
     
  24. Feb 6, 2006
  25. Slotmachine

    Slotmachine Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Management
    Location:
    US
    I don't get it either. Next thing you know they'll be demanding a digital photo of you showing your photo ID:rolleyes:

    I personally dislike e-mailing or faxing sensitive documents for fear of mistakes or identity theft. Some casinos do not require them. Especially if you don't deposit with a credit card. If I deposit via Neteller or bank transfer, there is no reason for the casino to request such documentation, other than to stall payments.

    I agree with BubbleG that it's unacceptable for the casino to delay their responses to bona fide attempts to provide the requested documents. I don't get it - what's the point in making life hard for the winners? Generates bad publicity (case in point) and alienates players. If I were to operate a casino I'd make sure the winners are paid pronto. This way they would sing the casino's praises on the forums and eventually they'd return to lose it all back.

    A week of waiting for documents to clear is wholly unacceptable IMO. I would not touch such a casino with a stick, so name the casino please BubbleG.

    I really like William Hill's method. No BS, just money in the bank:thumbsup: That's all you need, right?

    Cheers,
    SM
     
  26. Feb 6, 2006
  27. BubbleG

    BubbleG Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    spark
    Location:
    Earth, man!
    Too right!! If one can do it why cant the rest.

    Seriously I would have absolutely no problem in providing such documents if these measures solved the problems they are supposed to such as money laundering but there are lots of circumstances where fraud or foul play is obviously and simply not the case.

    CasinoMeister I would just like to ask you, all my personal issues aside what time frame you consider to be swift and acceptable? I quote "They must be able to take care of any player issue swiftly and professionally" Do you really consider 72hrs to make the document request, a further 48hrs to reply and tell me they havent accepted WHAT THEY ORIGINALLY ASKED FOR (I will forward you the original email, no mention of photo ID), 48hrs to reply to a request to accept a birth certificate only to tell me they are still awaiting a reply from there own financial people, we are now at 72hrs after the last email and still not a yes or no. For these reasons alone this casino should never had made the list!!

    Just one final point with regard to the photo and what difference it makes. Driving licences aswell as passports are certifiable by the numbers NOT the photo. The fact that you can scan and send them an image makes a mockery of the whole security issue as you dont need to be no DTP expert to fire up photoshop and change whatever details u want including putting a whole new face on the documents. None of this changes the fact you cant fake the numbers if you did one check and your busted.
     
  28. Feb 7, 2006
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Jumping the Gun

    This is a case of regulation "Jumping the Gun". The Photo ID is a standard introduced by eCogra for it's members to follow. The problem is the failure to address the few countries that are dragging their heels at introducing a Photo ID for all citizens. The UK are debating an ID card that will fill this role, but in the meantime we are left in limbo. If we get a passport now, we will have to get the new ID/Passport combo all over again in the next couple of years when the new ID card is introduced. Currently, the Photo Drivers licence is only made available to drivers who move house or change the classes of vehicle they drive. To roll it out for all at once would overwhelm them. This creates an underclass of citizen who have no formal photo ID because they are waiting for the cogs of government to turn and introduce the new standards. The debate is further slowing this down, with the US wanting the new European passport to incorporate biometrics as well as a photo.
    I do not see how the addition of a photo makes it easier to spot money laundering and fraud in an ONLINE environment, as it is the data that is used for checking the transactions. I would challenge a rep to state exactly how lack of a photo makes a difference if all the other information is provided.
    There are a small group of people who are unable to drive or travel for medical reasons, this would make them totally unable to get a drivers licence or to need a passport; and would mean they might as well forget about playing online for the next couple of years.
    Had I myself not been medically assessed for driving, I would also have the old paper licence, and have had difficulty playing online for the next couple of years till the UK fall into line and introduce a proper photo ID. We have strict money laundering laws here for banking, but a full suite of documents is enough for this without a photo licence if only a paper one is available - checking is done on the data provided with credit reference agencies, electoral rolls etc.

    There is ONE thing a photo is needed for, that is to put your picture up when you win big. There is a term in most casino T & C that allow them permission to use an image of you, and forcing you to provide a photo is one way of getting one.
     
  30. Feb 7, 2006
  31. managra

    managra Dormant account

    Occupation:
    finance
    Location:
    USA
    I am with you on this one. If a casino requests ID at some point, they should state so in their T&C. And if they end up requesting it and it's sent to them, they should not sit on it only to tell the player eventually that it is not an acceptable form of ID.

    To the extent i can, i will avoid casinos that request ID as i have a concern about ID theft. It's a valid concern imho. I have played at lots of pokerrooms over time and never had to submit ID. I can think of one that requested it as part of a bonus promotion and i just happily passed up on their promo.

    If the trend is really moving towards casinos wanting more validation about who a player is, they should make arrangements with the netellers and the firepays to request confirmation from them that your age and current address (and i really don't see what else a casino needs to know) agrees with what neteller has on record. As a neteller account holder i would happily allow neteller to make such confirmation. So, there are really more simple ways for the casinos to get more pertinent info about players without exposing them to id theft.
     
  32. Feb 7, 2006
  33. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I knew there was a recent thread that dealt with all of this. The sending copies of passports, IDs, etc., is pretty much hashed out here:
    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casinos/10614-send-documentation-what-5.html


    It depends on the situation. Of course standard common support issues should be taken care of immediately i.e. within a couple of hours via email. Anything beyond the standard reply may take longer since the CSR may need to confer with management, and management may need to go higher. There is normally a manager in the office and they work in shifts. But administrators may not be available 24 hrs a day - seven days a week. Most are gone during the weekends. So simply put, if you have a a problem that requires an administrative review, it may take longer than a few hours - and it may be a couple of days if it happens on a weekend.

    If you are having crappy customer service from any of the casinos listed here. I need to know who, what, and when. Thanks!

    End note - casinos that may require ID submissions ought to have this in their T&Cs so that players can mentally prepare themselves for this - this goes for all eCOGRA casinos, and possibly any which are publicly owned.
     
  34. Feb 7, 2006
  35. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    In many countries it is not required, these countries include the US, the UK, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Ireland, France, Sweden. British banks have lists of documents that can be used to prove name and address when you open an account, and they are able to deal with people who don't have a photo ID and still satisfy all anti-moneylaundering rules, casinos should be able to do the same.

    Your passport will remain valid.

    I think you are getting a bit paranoid. Can you give an example where this happened? A faxed copy of a passport photo would not make a good enough quality picture to put on a website.This player won $118000 before and was able to withdraw without having to provide documents.
     
  36. Feb 7, 2006
  37. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I'm not so sure about that. In California for example, everyone 18 and over is required to carry a picture ID with them at all times - I'm pretty sure about this. Passports are not required, but ID is (DL, state ID, etc.). But this would be state by state. Germany is the same thing - if you don't have a picture ID with you, they'll either take you down to the police station or take you home to where you left your wallet :D

    And correct me if I'm wrong, in the UK you must provide a photo ID when entering a casino.
     
  38. Feb 7, 2006
  39. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming!

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    I have no problem providing copies of my ID when required. Neteller for instance required a copy of my passport and my card registered with my neteller account when I opened it.

    Same goes for online casinos, also an affiliate program requested a copy of my passport. It is no big deal.

    Fact is, once you have sent the ID, you don't need to send it again. I don't see what the big problem is myself
     

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