Has this occured to anyone on here yet?

spiderman

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Location
Milky Way Galazy
In real life AP (Advantage Players) do exist albeit a purported less then 1 percent. So are there any AP players winning with any RNG software? In order to prove the legitimacy of the software, like in real life, AP players must exist as well albeit in the very low pct. Whether it's RNG produced or shuffled, there is a trend to beat. This would be a good indicator whether all or most software are rigged or not. I very much can prove if the software will actually keep up with the normal probabilities with about million plays in about a month hypothetically if I were commissioned to do the painstaking task and put to rest the debate.

I digress, I really do think there should be some AP players out there one way or another, and if so I would like to know there experiences.

One other thing, B & R Casinos can be laborious but software based games you can whiz by the plays and win a lot in a short amount of time (just imagine what an AP player can do), how do 'honest' software based casinos deal with that then? Rhetorical question though, since I really don't think they can/are willing to put up with paying out consistent winners. I hope I am wrong.
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
From what I've read, and seen, and experienced, the only way to be an advantage player is to use promos -- bonuses, free play, competitions, etc.

Comps in B&Ms -- in the online world 'comp' points are nearly worthless and can indeed be a negative -- food, meals, entertainment, etc. must all be factored into any 'advantage' play. Mathheads with systematic controlled play can sometimes... not nearly as much these days as in the past ... come out ahead.

If you read the video poker boards, you'll see moaning about the lack of 'good' games and promos at B&Ms.

The casino's advantage is built into the games. Advantage play is a numbers game, and I've never personally been able to cypher out whether a promo is 'good' or bad, and an advantage player must be able to do this.

There should be no 'trends' in gambling software, and have no bearing on a serious 'advantage' player and his play.

If an online player wins too often using bonuses (our only 'advantage') then the casino cuts off the bonuses... or bans the player outright. (Not playing in the spirit, blah, blah, blah....)
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
In real life AP (Advantage Players) do exist albeit a purported less then 1 percent. So are there any AP players winning with any RNG software? In order to prove the legitimacy of the software, like in real life, AP players must exist as well albeit in the very low pct. Whether it's RNG produced or shuffled, there is a trend to beat. This would be a good indicator whether all or most software are rigged or not. I very much can prove if the software will actually keep up with the normal probabilities with about million plays in about a month hypothetically if I were commissioned to do the painstaking task and put to rest the debate.

I digress, I really do think there should be some AP players out there one way or another, and if so I would like to know there experiences.
Well I guess I am an advantage player, but by my own admission, not a terribly good one :oops: (there are LOADS of people who play a LOT more than me and have made a LOT more money than me!)
However, I have made profit most months, and every single year since 2001 - all with RNG software:

2010 total: Something over +$6,000 (Not finished correlating all data yet)
2009 total: +$8,464
2008 total: +$12,313
2007 total: +$8,427
2006 total: +$4,399
2005 total: +$5,008
2004 total: +$1,705
2003 total: +$4,059
2002 total: +$5,174
2001 total: +$576

You can view my month by month reports of how & where I did this, going right back to May 2001 starting from this page:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


I know there are a few posters on this site who think online casinos are rigged. Personally I do not; if I did think that I wouldn't promote them and I certainly wouldn't play them!

KK
 

spiderman

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Location
Milky Way Galazy
Great input, KasinoKing. What are your withdrawal habits. Is consistently withdrawing moderate amounts at a time, versus accumulating a big "noticeable" bank before withdrawing, a safer and less conspicuous method or do they take "note" of any withdrawals small or large?
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Great input, KasinoKing. What are your withdrawal habits. Is consistently withdrawing moderate amounts at a time, versus accumulating a big "noticeable" bank before withdrawing, a safer and less conspicuous method or do they take "note" of any withdrawals small or large?
In the vast majority of cases I withdraw everything once I have met the WR -0%/+10%.

Like I said above - I don't believe casinos are rigged, so how much I withdraw at a time is irrelevant. I do sometimes split large withdrawals into smaller chunks; not because I am worried they might throw the "switch", but in the hope they wont ask for ID info. I'm OK with giving this info, but only if it's 100% necessary.

KK
 

Lucky Loser

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Location
Planet Earth
I have been playing pokies mostly land based and losing horribly for the last 25 years but it has been great fun so I cannot complain too much.

I have been playing online for the last 18 months and have lost alot but have learned quite a bit at the same time. You can consistently win if you have discipline. Saying this I am often up quite a bit but get too greedy and don't cashout but those days are getting fewer and fewer. In the last 2 weeks I have squandered 2 big pays of $1700 at both 3dice and Spin Palace by being stupid and upping my bets until its all gone.

Anyway, for the first time in my life I am consistently making real money by playing slots online and am having a great time. I am up $26K since 1 December 2010. No really big hits just lots and lots of $400 to $3k collects at various casinos.

The trick seems to be:

  1. set a gambling budget and be generous;
  2. always play with bonuses;
  3. if you deposit $50 and get 100% bonus play at least $2.50 per spin;
  4. only take decent bonuses;
  5. if taking a bonus only deposit small amounts unless you get 100%+ with good terms;
  6. MG bonuses are the best because they are easy to clear;
  7. CWC casinos and Inetbet have the best RTG bonus terms;
  8. only play at Playtech casinos if you get a great bonus (too hard to win otherwise);
  9. Dont reverse cashouts.
I now treat playing bonuses as a game that I try to beat. It seems to make a big difference. Once I meet playthrough I allow myself $100 to keep playing just in case I am on a big roll and cash out the rest.

Good luck. Hope these tips also work for others.
 

spiderman

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Location
Milky Way Galazy
In the vast majority of cases I withdraw everything once I have met the WR -0%/+10%.

Like I said above - I don't believe casinos are rigged, so how much I withdraw at a time is irrelevant. I do sometimes split large withdrawals into smaller chunks; not because I am worried they might throw the "switch", but in the hope they wont ask for ID info. I'm OK with giving this info, but only if it's 100% necessary.

KK

No dice, my friend. 7's comes in groups of two's, three's and once four's when ever a bet is in play more so than single 7's (which is my trigger). It's blatantly obvious, it's not even funny (I picked a random casino off your recommended page of your site for testing). Slots are programmed to give out wins but table games can't afford to give A. players the right math. 4/10, 5/9, 6/8 eerily comes out in pairs seemingly as well to make sure it doesn't 7 out. If this were real life, the table would be considered scorching hot for either Pass or Don't Pass players, one or the other (where usually it's always leveled out with no hot streaks either way). Whatever side I play, the other side will be scorching the table since it hits the opposite of my play on cue. They aren't willing to put up with volume play racking up small a pct from the get go and having the software keeping you in check is the least confrontational way to go. No need for diversion tactics person to person. The only way to get ahead is to license one for yourself.

*Update* I went on to Random.org and played the dice setting just right now and won 7 pretend units off the bat and I didn't even bother waiting for my trigger to kill the odds a little. The tell is that the 7 out does materialise on proper terms when it is expected and the consecutive 7's don't come out uncannily in droves as it should not. Hmmm, funny when there is no vested interest or money to lose - or gain - depending which side you are on, the math works out just fine.
 

spiderman

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Location
Milky Way Galazy
*Update* {Craps} I rolled another 4 in a row of 7's {1 in 1,296} interspersed with a few single 7's here and there. So for every 20+ or so single 7's that show up a 4 in a row of 7 should be due if their software is running to their "liking." Not to mention the plethora of 3 in a rows {1 in 216} thrown in there as well in just less than an hour of play. The industry is crooked, the lot of them.
 

Seventh777

RIP Roy
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
IMHO there is only one way to really clean up being an AP and that is MGS tournaments that pay real cash and not bonus cash (as shown recently by our beloved VWM), a big gamble sure (around 3.5k dollars iirc), but a nice profit of 1.5k, if you have a good bank roll, copious amounts of amphetamines, and more patience than the Pope on rohypnol, then this is the way for you ;).

P.S.

I`m not saying that VWM takes speed, but fck, does this guy ever sleep lol? :eek:
 

hittingpoints

Registered User
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Location
Philly and Surrounding
*Update* {Craps} I rolled another 4 in a row of 7's {1 in 1,296} interspersed with a few single 7's here and there. So for every 20+ or so single 7's that show up a 4 in a row of 7 should be due if their software is running to their "liking." Not to mention the plethora of 3 in a rows {1 in 216} thrown in there as well in just less than an hour of play. The industry is crooked, the lot of them.

As a professional craps player, I couldnt imagine trusting an online craps game. Especially since I operate in a circle of players that practice "dice control", which isnt what it sounds like, but does lower the house edge.

Plus, craps is a game that is popular and fun because of the excitement of the table, which isn't apparent online at all.
 

Vegasbum

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Location
Ontario
There are no 100% return Video poker games on MG platform. On RTG they have 10/7 double bonus and that comes in at 100.17%. The problem online is exactly what "Mousey" wrote in his reply..comps.

When I play at RTG I get a bonus and some lousy comps for free play. The bonus has strings attatched. I can go to Vegas and play 10?7 double bonus at Sams Town and get free booze, free rooms and free food. That is much better than what online will give me.

So to answer you question most AP players would play in a BM casino and at least they know they are getting a fair game. Online they have to wait for their money sometimes get hasseled and "hope" they get paid. In a land casino they are paid instantly and have many more perks.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
IMHO there is only one way to really clean up being an AP and that is MGS tournaments that pay real cash and not bonus cash (as shown recently by our beloved VWM), a big gamble sure (around 3.5k dollars iirc), but a nice profit of 1.5k, if you have a good bank roll, copious amounts of amphetamines, and more patience than the Pope on rohypnol, then this is the way for you ;).

P.S.

I`m not saying that VWM takes speed, but fck, does this guy ever sleep lol? :eek:

I didn't actually spend that much TIME playing that tournament.

What I DID do though, was to think through my strategy, and possible options, as well as the likelihood of success BEFORE I bought my first continue.

It was actually alot CLOSER than it looked. I nearly "cocked it up" at the end, and I was in danger of coming second if my adversary had one of those great bonus rounds so close to the end that I didn't have enough time to make up the ground.

The problem was not just winning, but doing so at a PROFIT. This involved using as FEW continues as I could get away with, rather than piling in to guarantee victory, but making an overall loss.

Being a cash prize, the maths was fairly easy. Bonus prizes are harder, because unless you beat WR, NOTHING has actually been won in the end.

I may not have the luxury of repeating the same strategy, because on the last day my rival COPIED it, probably hoping to throw me off balance. I believe he/she has now discovered the how & why of my strategy, and may already have figured out how they are going to get their revenge next time 32Red run a similar tournament.

The tournaments can be good for Advantage players because you are not playing the house, but other players. When playing against the house, advantage players really need to look at bonuses and competitions, rather than consistently beating the games with their own money.

KK's approach is seeking out the best bonuses, and beating enough of them to come out ahead overall through disciplined betting and bankroll management.

One reason advantage players don't win HUGE amounts is that the casinos are quick to show them the door, so an advantage player quickly runs out of decent casinos, and has to start taking chances with the rogues to carry on winning. This results in all these non-payment issues we see in complaints, where the complainant has run into trouble with a casino they shouldn't have played at in the first place.

I am sure KK could "win more" if he played his game at the rogue end of the market, but he would probably have trouble getting PAID.

I have found that where I get bonus banned are also mostly where I am ahead overall. I am far less likely to get bonus banned where I am losing. The ONLY group that I know for CERTAIN bonus banned me when I was down was Grand Prive. There are a small number of others where I think I MIGHT be bonus banned, yet am down overall at.

The only way an advantage player can win long term is to win at virtually EVERY casino, but the fact that most will then ban them from further bonuses puts a limit on the overall profit made. Now that casinos freely share information about "clever players" with each other (they deny it of course:rolleyes:), advantage players will find it even harder in the future.

The other way to make a quick profit is to find a glitch in the software, and hammer it before it gets noticed. This is the MAIN way that FRuit Machine players make profits, but it has become almost impossible now. I know of one or two profitable glitches that have ocurred online, but this has been AFTER it was hammered, and then fixed. Unless you discover something yourself, or are with "the inner circle", even the average advantage player will only hear about it when it is too late.
Glitches that favour the CASINO are more common, and get more exposure because players will complain. This impression may be distorted because some player favouring glitches NEVER get revealed, even when they are over. The casinos rarely admit to a glitch unless they are "called out" on a forum about it, and unless the advantage players feel like bragging about it, the rank & file will not find out.

I bet there ARE a few "exploits" live right now, not so much "glitches", but "unintended consequences", where clever interplay between standard and special promotions can provide a +EV opportunity for a while.

An example might be where a casino offers 50% back on losses at Blackjack, but where their standard comps and bonus offers will mean that whilst losing their bankroll, the player can recover MORE than the other 50% through their comps and bonuses.
I have not seen a casino make this mistake with an obvious game like Blackjack, but it HAS happened in more subtle forms.
The casino still has the option to renege on the money after the fact, as amply demonstrated by Betfair:p
 
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