has online gaming gone to the dogs?

Are you being served better or worse by online casinos now compared to when you started?

  • More or less the same. I see no significant change.

    Votes: 12 7.0%
  • I'd say better. Maybe you need a vacation.

    Votes: 4 2.3%
  • A bit worse maybe but not a big deal IMO.

    Votes: 30 17.5%
  • Worse, much worse. Maybe we both need vacations.

    Votes: 117 68.4%
  • "Online Casino"?!? I thought this was a pizza delivery service.

    Votes: 8 4.7%

  • Total voters
    171

Flyingslotsman

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Location
Scotland
Ok... and i agree its bad for players - however i dont think this is the slot providers fault. In any business you give what the customer asks for. In their case - the casinos were asking for a lower RTP maths model - so they provided one. Very difficult for them to take the moral high ground and turn down custom. Given that at some horrendous casinos Play N Go run at 90%..
I can easily see the casino saying no to play n go - not the other way around. Unless i'm mistaken some of the bigger providers - like Yggdrasil and Novamatic ARENT available at every casino - even big reputable accredited casinos.
Sky Vegas does not have Play N Go for that matter.
Casino: "we want a lower rtp model of that game“

BTG/Relax gaming etc: "Don't have one so tough" OK we'll still take it, it makes us money anyway.

If the industry standard was set (at 96% as an example) then either casinos would obide or not host games, casinos that did host games would be flooded with players. It's the unsuspecting players that don't know I worry for, we're a small community of millions of players who understand the RTP consequences.

I understand it's a business decision at the end of the day, but like I've said if the standard was to change then everyone would have to obide, why can't the ukgc flex it's muscles in this manner rather than the inevitable pitfall of it's upcoming, we'll get auto play removed.
 

Masquerade67

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Location
South
But the casinos *can* change the RTP by stating a maximum win and the games-provider simply re-selecting from the RNG should this eventuality be reached. e.g. from game server to Goonies game client......

<GameSettings minStake=“0.10” maxStake=“500.00” maxWinnings=“250000.00” totalStakeIncrements=“0.10|0.20|0.40|0.60|0.80|1.00|2.00|4.00|5.00|10.00|20.00|50.00|100.00|200.00” defaultStake=“1.00” autoPlay=“1” betHistoryViewer=“0” />

In a non-compensated world, this would decrease the RTP should there be possible winnings above the maxWinnings param ???
 

Mouse75

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Location
Southport
Casino: "we want a lower rtp model of that game“

BTG/Relax gaming etc: "Don't have one so tough" OK we'll still take it, it makes us money anyway.

If the industry standard was set (at 96% as an example) then either casinos would obide or not host games, casinos that did host games would be flooded with players. It's the unsuspecting players that don't know I worry for, we're a small community of millions of players who understand the RTP consequences.

I understand it's a business decision at the end of the day, but like I've said if the standard was to change then everyone would have to obide, why can't the ukgc flex it's muscles in this manner rather than the inevitable pitfall of it's upcoming, we'll get auto play removed.

Maybe it not all the casinos though - do we know how slot providers are paid? Do they get a cut of the profit - in which case lower RTP's across the board ar GOOD for them??

Maybe our ire should be at the providers as much as the casinos.
 

SuperSeven

Newbie member
Joined
Sep 27, 2020
Location
London
I have lost interest in spending my entertainment time, on a customer support chat for the evening. The player is the one who needs to diagnose the technical issues, who gets an overwhelming number of requests in order to satisfy the KYC process, all quite predictable unfortunately. I have yet to ever see a casino provide the resolution to a game issue, whether you inappropriately lost money, or not, concluded to resolution of an outcome. Additionally, the gaming experience does not provide the excitement it once did, I think that another area, such as player tracking has contributed to this.
I think that your first sentence here has that the nail on the head and the challenge for online gaming providers.

The biggest challenge for Operators in the next 5 years is not each other as it used to be, but the battle or a slice of peoples entertainment time. It is this highly valuable element that has become more and more limited for people as opposed to a share of wallet. Regulation has not helped the operator by putting more and more overheads on them that mean that 99.5% of players who are totally innocent have to jump through hoops which makes it far less appealing way of spending their entertainment time. Far easier to sign up and watch Netflix, or add a HBO subscription or even - pay for Sky sports each month if that is your bag!
 

SuperSeven

Newbie member
Joined
Sep 27, 2020
Location
London
Maybe it not all the casinos though - do we know how slot providers are paid? Do they get a cut of the profit - in which case lower RTP's across the board ar GOOD for them??

Maybe our ire should be at the providers as much as the casinos.
Yeah, they get a share of the Gross Gaming Revenue, but the flip side of that is that if players don't like the lower RTP's then the operator won't retain players and therefore don't grow and hence the overall GGR doesn't grow as fast s it could do and therefore they don't do themselves any favours in the long run...
 

Balky

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Location
Croatia
I started to gamble online about 15 years ago. In all those years I never had any bigger issue with any casino, mostly because of playing as a lowroller in accredited casinos only, and mainly sticking to accredited sites.

But what does online gambling look like today? Drastically lowered RTP, various country restrictions, SOW requests, tech issues, lagging problems, bonus and cashback offers going down the drain, deposit methods constantly changing etc, favorite slot games being taken out of the offer, just to name a few of the desastrous changes.

Sadly the „good ole days“ are obviously gone for good, and thats why I more and more often prefer to play settlers of Catan or Scrabble instead of a slot session.

Cheers

Balky
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Well this has been an interesting one, to say the least. Almost 90% of poll respondents said that things have either gotten worse or much worse since they started. That certainly reflects the general feeling I get from the people that come to us via our Complaints (PAB) Service. Doesn't say good things about the industry though does it?

Anyway, thanks to all for participating. I'm going to un-pin this but feel free to post and/or update here as you see fit.
 

philderby1

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Location
derby
I closed the only remaining two uk sites I played at permanently a few weeks ago. All this sow rubbish makes me scared to deposit. Started a new hobby in January and its a hell of a lot cheaper than gambling. honestly I dont miss it when I read about all the crap with videoslots and other places giving players the run around
 

philderby1

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Location
derby
I started to gamble online about 15 years ago. In all those years I never had any bigger issue with any casino, mostly because of playing as a lowroller in accredited casinos only, and mainly sticking to accredited sites.

But what does online gambling look like today? Drastically lowered RTP, various country restrictions, SOW requests, tech issues, lagging problems, bonus and cashback offers going down the drain, deposit methods constantly changing etc, favorite slot games being taken out of the offer, just to name a few of the desastrous changes.

Sadly the „good ole days“ are obviously gone for good, and thats why I more and more often prefer to play settlers of Catan or Scrabble instead of a slot session.

Cheers

Balky
Im actually enjoying not playing any more. No more hangovers wondering whats left of my dole money for the month, The new hobby I've got costs me between £45 - £60 a month and that lasts a whole month. £40 playing slots would last me 15 minutes if I was lucky!
 

EkJR

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Location
Glasgow
Yeah I am not missing it at all. Stopped watching streamers as well although would still watch the Bandit if he posts something up. Games are just too high variance now, balances are going faster than ever. Then you have all the other shit. SOW and AML. Some casinos are using this to delay withdrawals as well which the UKGC seemed to specifically say was not to happen. However, when confronted they will back the operator saying "the operator has to comply with various checks blah blah blah". Its really shit now and doubt I'll ever go back.
 

Najasaki

Keep It Simple, Stupid.
PABinit
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Your Happy Place
Wow... years ago I used to envy U.K players for their plethora of online casino selections and freedom. It seemed like their government
were on top of things and knew what they were doing. Fast forward to 2021, after reading about all of these verification issues, INVASIVE SoW inquires, (unbelievable) removal of bonus buys, removal of fast play, bet size limits, ridiculously low RTP settings and upcoming shorty, disabling auto spins.. I'm just in disbelief. The U.K. market is becoming a wasteland for online gambling. It's completely crashing and burning before my eyes.

I swear, I must of seen like 50+ SoW threads in the past year.
 

Najasaki

Keep It Simple, Stupid.
PABinit
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Your Happy Place
Kudos to the U.K players for putting up with these godawful rules set forth.. I, personally, wouldn't accept the requests for some pencil-neck unknown dipshit at some online casino requesting my personal banking data to see how much money is in my savings/checking account, what my paychecks look like, what I spend my money on and then have the nerve to ask questions about my transactions.. all while they hold winnings that are rightfully owed to me. Fuck that... I would completely quit online gambling and take up carpentry as a hobby.
 

6HellsBells6

Full Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2020
Location
Ireland
There might be one or more good online casino's nowadays. But the majority treat their customers like this..




That's what it feels like anyway.
 

EkJR

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Location
Glasgow
There might be one or more good online casino's nowadays. But the majority treat their customers like this..




That's what it feels like anyway.
100%. Particulary with these doc requests. I'm still unsure as to how the UKGC are taking no action against some operators who are clearly using these requests to delay withdrawals. Allowed to deposit as much as possible but the second it comes to a withdrawal its documents galore in a load of places before they pay out. This was against all guidance from the governing body...but yet they get away with it.
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Because they're only interested if it can be accompanied with a press release.

Pretty sure they get loads of folk emailing them telling them such and, given the responses i've seen personally, little wonder casino's chance their arm when it's clear the UKGC are totally disinterested in those types of things.
 

EkJR

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Location
Glasgow
Because they're only interested if it can be accompanied with a press release.

Pretty sure they get loads of folk emailing them telling them such and, given the responses i've seen personally, little wonder casino's chance their arm when it's clear the UKGC are totally disinterested in those types of things.
It's a bit like HMRC their bark is worse than their bite. They seem to want to take a "tough stance" with some of their legislation and LCCP provisions but in reality they will not do the follow up work.
 

razor8

Potty mouthed Troll
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Location
At home
It's way worse now. I've actually stopped playing online, because instead of it being a fun hobby it's become a chore. Now when you win something big your first thought is will I get paid and will it take for ever to get all of it.

I mean I used to play a lot at Guts back in the day. My biggest win of 40k€ was paid to my bank account in about 12 hours. No hassle. Now they'd probably keep it as hostage and ask for pay slips and my grandmothers birth certificate because she once put a tenner into my account in the 90's. :D
 

andym1985

Newbie member
Joined
May 19, 2018
Location
australia
Ok, I'll admit that's a bit of a click-bait title, but the intention behind it is genuine. Allow me to explain.

In my work in Complaints I find that I'm dealing with a lot more pissed off players than I used to. They often don't get much satisfaction from the casinos they frequent. More and more these players -- and me too when I'm trying to help them -- are hitting brick walls when they seek to have an issue resolved. And that brick wall often seems to be some form of corporate BS.

Perhaps the casino has farmed out their Customer Service to a call center in Mumbai and players are forced to run a seemingly endless gauntlet of CS reps who don't know anything and can't make the decisions necessary to get things resolved. Result? Pissed off customer.

Or the casino has implemented ridiculous KYC rules that have nothing to do with customer safety or satisfaction and everything to do with the casino making the withdrawal process as painful as possible in the hopes that Joe/Jane Average Player will get so frustrated that they just reverse the withdrawal and end up playing their winnings away. Result? Pissed off and poorer customer.

Or the casino's legal department has jumped the shark and forced the CS people to claim that they can't talk to anybody but the player because of "data protection laws". See here for how much bull-crap that is: Casino Industry Myths: The General Data Protection Regulation ("GDPR") - Casinomeister - Forum Result? Player pissed off and issue unresolved.

Or the casino has set up an "internal complaints department" that is supposed to handle all player complaints. This is the old "self regulating" shell game that has been repeatedly proven to be exactly what it is: BS. If there is money on the table at Casino X and a person employed by Casino X is in charge of deciding what happens to that money then the end of that process is fairly predictable: a pissed off customer because most times, one way or another, that money will end up flowing back to Casino X. To the surprise of absolutely no one.

I could go on but I think I've made my point: as the casino industry has become more and more "industrialized" -- as our fearless leader puts it -- the customer has simply become a revenue stream. With few exceptions the personal touch is long gone, the mantra of "customer care" is chanted ad nauseum when the opposite is the norm, and the vast majority of the online casino business has just become a big fat money hoover for anonymous casino group owners and shareholders.

Or maybe that's just my jaded view after 13 years of processing player complaints. Is it? See the poll above and let us know what you think. And feel free to comment below.
Bottom line is especially for Australians do not bother wasting your money or time at any online casino they are all at best licenced with a dodgy curico ( unregulated ) licence and they are all out to rip off and scam Aussie players.
I find it funny how easy is to deposit and then to take the money out your account but to make a withdrawal there that many terms and conditions and excuses and bullshitt let's involved with trying to get money from them, all part of the scam.
They are all in one way or another linked either through data shared on a network or they are partnering with each other.
I would never ever waste any more money on ne curico licenced casino online.
God I miss the microgaming days and malta licenced casinos.
But I guess those days are gone for good
 
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