Has betat's terms changed ?

[homerbert]

One of the most interesting forum members come here, CEO of best online casinos currently by my opinion
Well, would be nice to read your posts Igor, would be also very nice too see more posts like you did after so long break
And come on, tell us what new you guys create.

 

[homerbert]

And i want to not agree here(with Igor post) Partly.

after all the services we offer and free deposits (check - even for methods that cost us 10% per deposit by the way) and free withdrawals (check)

Why you use this like something special for betat? Shityscammersidiots.com can offer same, but still be idiots. Even with 10% fee for each deposit - you earn money on each deposit using such payment option. Deposits/withdrawals SHOULD be free, any casino which take % for deposits is not understand what it doing.
And really Igor why you doing this again? Short answer to everyone - betat is not charity organization. It is pretty short answer. It is easy to understand that you can't give 100% with 10x WR, because tommorow players destroy you. Simple and short, and also simple that players will still asking for more, more, more. Nature of every player i guess.

I believe betat strongest points is not free deposits/withdrawals, or your promos. Promos good, but nothing else.
Betat is top online casino because of relationships with players. Believe or not Igor, but Jay(betat) is awesome guy, and he is a guy who already built for your casino awesome reputation. Awesome example that even one guy from casino at forums could make casino reputation on top level. Shame that others not understand this.
And betat is one of the best casinos because you guys run honest bussiness. Really honest one. I never saw any shitty promo from your casino. Never anything like 'Hey, today is awesome day, deposit 100$, get 10FS on starburst'. All offers generous, and this is why you much more stronger that a lot of others. From all others casinos(why not?). In very short - you earning money on everyone of us, but at least you are ready to give us a much more chances, and earn a bit less then others.
And yes, this guys is top 1 now. Anyone want to prove me wrong?

 

[refre]

The rep was kind enough to credit the missing part of my free lunch

I should add I cashed out 6 times my deposit on the 50% match.

I decided to forfeit the bonus, as I had not touched it, and I didn't want to risk my win.

Thanks Betat


Freddy

 

[Captain Chaos]

It's precisely why I've chosen to play with you guys now over 32red. I still love them. I still play with them. But as a whole I think you guys have got the right package. For me at least anyway.

Welcome back BTW! Great reintroduction. The place hasn't been the same without you Igor.

 

[homerbert]

The rep was kind enough to credit the missing part of my free lunch

I should add I cashed out 6 times my deposit on the 50% match.

I decided to forfeit the bonus, as I had not touched it, and didn't want to risk my win.

Thanks Betat


Freddy

wait, what?
I LOST ON STUPID TS II MY DEPOSIT AND BONUS? WHAT IS THE HELL IGOR!!!11111
I want 200$ NDB for this, with x 3 WR. Or my experience with betat will be awful
Sorry, i can't stay away and not make joke like this...Not funny jokes master!

 

[BETAT]

Kind words and I'm humbled/flattered. But honestly, I couldn't do a tenth of what I do without the unsung heroes behind the scenes - CS and other BETAT staff. (crediting your bonuses, helping with your accts, following up concerns and tirelessly answering my Qs). But sorry, no $200 NDB.

Also, anyone who sent me a pm has been credited (or sent for crediting). Good luck!

 

[paul7388]

Its a great team and sure everyone thanks you all for your hard work and great jobs you are doing.

But Its a Saturday night you should all be enjoying it not still working since you all seem to be here tonight.

 

[Igor82]

EDIT: i replied with quote before reading till the end - hey man, thanks so much! Jay's quality has not been ignored. I'm very proud of the team that surrounds us and i remain hghly particual over who we bring into the circle. These boys and girls are everything that is this business and trust me, i could not find a better bunch if i tried

Thank you, thank you :notworthy

Even with 10% fee for each deposit - you earn money on each deposit using such payment option. Deposits/withdrawals SHOULD be free, any casino which take % for deposits is not understand what it doing.

Nope , we earn money on every bet lost, my friend. You can deposit and withdraw again and again and all we would do is pay suppliers - no money earned

Or to give you a more realistic example:

Imagine you like "securing" your win after only a little - you don't chase that 2-3-5-10 times ( 6 times!! yaaay for refre lol) your deposit win, you are happy with just going over the deposit amount before you withdraw.

Deposit 100, withdraw 120.
Redeposit 50, lose
Redeposit another 50, lose
Redeposit a 100, lose
Redeposit 100, withdraw 150
redeposit 50, withdraw 70
redeposit 100, lose
redeposit 50, withdraw 140.

Seems like a semi-average lifetime kinda thing? (i know i know, many have had a 5-deposit or more loss streak - don't jump on my throat - lets just pretend)

So this imaginary player used an expensive "10% per deposit cost" payment method to deposit and cheap bank withdrawal option. Lets say 0.5% each withdrawal.


600 deposit in total, 480 withdrawn total - casino profit: 120. Player sees loss of 120 of course!

Transaction cost? 60 on deposits and 2.4 on withdrawals = 62.4

To earn 120, we paid some other supplier over 50% (!!) - and we still give bonnies like it should be done (and then pay Netent and MG on those too)

Keep in mind here, that all the Bonnie cost is being taken away from the 60 that's left, not 120 now... plus the game providers take their fair share of all monies lost on games (bonus or real)

Trust me, free transactions are a perk - and a perk that might not last for too long!

Ig

 

[homerbert]

I know that you pay for deposits, pay for withdrawals, pay to suppliers! Plus you pay employers. Yes,yes, yes.
Still, you earn on every deposit. I lose with every deposit, because i am play with my deposit. No matter win or lose, on long term each my deposit earn money to casino.
BUT I FIND A SYSTEM. I will made 50$ deposit, and then withdraw 50$ back. And 100 times same. You will pay fees for my transactions and lost money. Just joke, since it is not allowed to do things like this.

 

[paul7388]

Even with 10% fee for each deposit - you earn money on each deposit using such payment option. Deposits/withdrawals SHOULD be free, any casino which take % for deposits is not understand what it doing.

Nope , we earn money on every bet lost, my friend. You can deposit and withdraw again and again and all we would do is pay suppliers - no money earned

Or to give you more realistic example:

Imagine you like "securing" you win after only a little - you don't chase that 2-3-5-10 times your deposit win, you are happy with just going over the deposit amount before you withdraw.

Deposit 100, withdraw 120.
Redeposit 50, lose
Redeposit another 50, lose
Redeposit a 100, lose
Redeposit 100, withdraw 150
redeposit 50, withdraw 70
redeposit 100, lose
redeposit 50, withdraw 140.

Seems like a semi-average lifetime kinda thing? (i know i know, many have had a 5-deposit or more loss streak - don't jump on my throat - lets just pretend)

So this imaginary player used a expensive 10% per deposit cost payment method to deposit and chat bank withdrawal option. Lets say 0.5% each withdrawal.


600 deposit in total, 480 withdrawn total - casino profit: 120.

Transaction cost? 60 on deposits and 2.4 on withdrawals = 62.4

To earn 120, we paid some other supplier over 50% (!!) - and we still give bonnies like it should be done (and then pay Netent and MG on those too)

Trust me, free transactions are a perk - and a perk that might not last for too long!

Ig[/QUOTE]

I don't normally go into things like this but thanks for posting that as to be honest ive never thought about it.

If I deposit somewhere I just deposit and if I win I withdraw. Ive never actually thought it costs a casino so much.

Does that apply to all deposits even for instance neteller or UKASH etc. I just always presumed if I deposited in a casino they got all the money never knew it cost them so much.

Sorry if I sound stupid but is that the same in all casinos or just some.

 

[homerbert]

you thought neteller/skrill/ukash will give their services for free? They earn a lot of money on our transcations, probably even more than casinos itself. Payment system is a perfect business

 

[paul7388]

you thought neteller/skrill/ukash will give their services for free? They earn a lot of money on our transcations, probably even more than casinos itself. Payment system is a perfect business

No I never thought they gave services free. But if I put money in my neteller account it costs me the fee. So I presumed that if I then deposit it into a casino the casino would not get charged.

I presumed neteller made enough with the money they make for all the deposits into accounts and charges for withdrawing from ATMs etc.

 

[homerbert]

No I never thought they gave services free. But if I put money in my neteller account it costs me the fee. So I presumed that if I then deposit it into a casino the casino would not get charged.

I presumed neteller made enough with the money they make for all the deposits into accounts and charges for withdrawing from ATMs etc.

Well, they have absolutely different opinion
Let's try to play math.
Some player from Belarus made 100$ deposit in betat, no bonus(to made math easier).
If casino lucky enough, i made deposit with skrill or neteller. So we take about 2% fee from it. Then i lost my 100$ playing netent games. Let's made supplier fee 15%(average amount i think, some operator have it less, some higher, not sure).
So, 100-2-15=83$ left.
From this 83$ casino will pay to my affiliate. Let it be 30%. 83-25= 58$ goes to casino. Add there some payments for workers, plus casino should pay taxes i believe. I think there will be left something like 30-40$ in the end. Still very profitable business, but you need to work a lot and of course should be good in this business, it is not so easy.

 

[Igor82]

I don't normally go into things like this but thanks for posting that as to be honest ive never thought about it.

If I deposit somewhere I just deposit and if I win I withdraw. Ive never actually thought it costs a casino so much.

Does that apply to all deposits even for instance neteller or UKASH etc. I just always presumed if I deposited in a casino they got all the money never knew it cost them so much.

Sorry if I sound stupid but is that the same in all casinos or just some.

Not stupid at all.

All casinos pay. bigger casinos pay less because they have more transactions so payment providers charge them less (think of it like wholesale price). Transactions cost money but not every type costs the same.

Cards are the cheapest, then come the wallets, then the vouchers as most expensive - just an FYI

 

[Igor82]

From this 83$ casino will pay to my affiliate. Let it be 30%. 83-25= 58$ goes to casino. Add there some payments for workers, plus casino should pay taxes i believe. I think there will be left something like 30-40$ in the end. Still very profitable business, but you need to work a lot and of course should be good in this business, it is not so easy.

not quite - bonus campaigns will see 25% of every 100 back to players, on average. 75$ left, then 10-15% payment methods (remember, some lose, some win but we pay on every transaction), 60$ left, then 30$ to affiliate, 30 left,

By now i paid for cost to get the player, cost to give them games and cost to collect their money. And 30 is a bit low, but realistically - around 40-50% will be left

Now there are: taxes (on 100), licence fees, bandwidth costs, servers, security, insurance, bank fees, mailing software fees, affilaite software, CS software, char software.. all cost - then finally salaries and overheads.

haha.. it IS profitable business, just not as much as you would think

 

[spintee]

Guys, can we stop the WR tirade?

WR is there for a reason - its always B+D, ALWAYS and it will never be less than 25. It doesn't matter if its 20%, 50% or 500% bonus. I'm not going to go into the deep maths of it, but given that real money is never locked in, while being given that real money contributes to WR it means that every bonus, ever is going to have minimum of 20xB+D or higher.

For the no maths players out there, 50% at 25 B+D means that with a balance of (100 dep + 50 bonus) 150 you need to wager 3750. Now, some slots are at 96%, some are even at 97% - we always take a 3.5% margin average. 3.5% multiplied by volume means that you should expect to lose 130 from your 150, which means you get a 20% cashback on losses of a 100 (that is to say, if you lose - if you win, you have no ties! need to stress that again, kinda), or it means that you get longer game play by 50% that you wouldnt have otherwise had (while keeping your deposit risk free), or it means that you get

wait for it...

FREE STUFF. No strings attached. Again

And seriously, if ... after all the services we offer and free deposits (check - even for methods that cost us 10% per deposit by the way) and free withdrawals (check) and a PLETHORA of bonuses weekly (check), and PLETHORA of free spins weekly (check), and Wagering based promotions (check), achievement bonuses (check), special CM only promos (check), fast 24/7 withdrawals (check) ... i have to come back from my long slumber away from the forum to find spintee going on about the same old tirade for few 100's of wagering up or down, that is to say in the same place where i left it off...

Well then, you are either really spoilt for choice among operators today - which as a consumer its a great thing to see and i'm glad the industry went in a positive direction,

or, you have an insatiable thirst to get a free lunch every time. There are no free lunches. Well, sometimes, perhaps. Not every time.

In sort, we're not in the business of creating wildly positive +EV marketing campaigns, because then we'd be out of business and all those nice services up there cant be given at all because we'd be gone.

BETAT bonuses will always be the very minimum of 25 B+D and its a good deal. I'm sure there are better deals out there, but with everything else we offer - this one is ours. And we're happy with it.



Btw, i'm back lol. Came back to write some new updates and things that we've been doing for the casinos and the industry over the last few months. It's quite exciting.

Good to see/read you all

Ig

First of the thread was not a complaint about bonus or wanting anythink for nothing, I mearly pointed out was the wager changed as could not remember, As others also pointed out they also thought it was lower,

It was really about the free spins on deposit, 20 or 25?

 

[Jory]

I excluded from BETAT around 3 months ago and as always, I regretted it soon after.

You don't realise how good a casino they are until you no longer have the option to play there.

It's like shooting yourself in the foot just because you had a bad streak. Oh well, at least I can play at goldenluckymagic bullshit casino.

 

[Igor82]

I excluded from BETAT around 3 months ago and as always, I regretted it soon after.

You don't realise how good a casino they are until you no longer have the option to play there.

It's like shooting yourself in the foot just because you had a bad streak. Oh well, at least I can play at goldenluckymagic bullshit casino.

Sorry to hear that mate. If it wasn't for gambling reasons, the guys can help - you know that, right?

We don't touch gambling problems - those are a permanent lifetime ban. But cool-offs are manageable.

Just FYI

 

[homerbert]

Probably year or more ago i ask Daniel from betat live chat to give me joke, he give. And most times he appear in chat for me, sometimes he give me jokes(not often). Now i won 20 FS at another betat topic, and Jay just pass me joke that Daniel give for me... Is this not the best service and is this just not perfect relationship between player - casino ?
Joke itself:
3 drunk guys enterd a taxi. The taxi driver knew that they were drunk so he started the engine & turned it off again. Then said, "We have reached your destination". The 1st guy gave him money & the 2nd guy said "Thank you". The 3rd guy slapped the driver. The driver was shocked thinking the 3rd drunk knew what he did. But then he asked "What was that for?". The 3rd guy replied, "Control your speed next time, you nearly killed us!"
I laughed.
Also i understand it, yeah i know english!!!111

 

[Jory]

I remember the best joke Daniel ever told me. He said he was a Liverpool fan.

 

[refre]

I never realized vouchers is the most expensive option...
They are just so damn convenient!

It's not long ago I paid 5% on every deposit through a virtual card. Plus 2% currency exchange fee...

I'm not supposed to use my cards directly with casinos, even if the casino accepts it.
It's part of my contract.
In fact, it's part of everyones contracts here...

Also, vouchers keep the transaction footprint to a minimum.
You get it with gas, or at the supermarket.


Freddy