GVC - Coral and Galacasino showing the wrong RTP to players, possible breach of license

[EkJR]

Just been advised that Wildz casino(MGA) also

None of these responses confirm an official complaint. They are in the forms of discussion and advice.

No emails I have seen either state 'i would like to make an official complaint'.

Until you are going through the complaints procedure you are just seen as having a casual chat regardless of the severity.

I have not deposited so do not think I have grounds for complaining. If I was I would state this -

'I am writing to make a formal complaint. Please reply confirming receipt and outlining the details of your complaints procedure. I believe that under UKGC guidelines you have 8 weeks from today's date.'

There is no need to go into too much detail until you are speaking with an appropriate complaints handler.

If they go silent then 8 weeks later I believe the next step would be an ADR which I believe CM may be able to help with.

In any case, if anybody reaches the 8 weeks I will know by then the next course of action.

It's all been sent to the complaints email now who appears to be UK based. Will update in due course.

 

[colinsunderland]

None of these responses confirm an official complaint. They are in the forms of discussion and advice.

No emails I have seen either state 'i would like to make an official complaint'.

Until you are going through the complaints procedure you are just seen as having a casual chat regardless of the severity.

I have not deposited so do not think I have grounds for complaining. If I was I would state this -

'I am writing to make a formal complaint. Please reply confirming receipt and outlining the details of your complaints procedure. I believe that under UKGC guidelines you have 8 weeks from today's date.'

There is no need to go into too much detail until you are speaking with an appropriate complaints handler.

If they go silent then 8 weeks later I believe the next step would be an ADR which I believe CM may be able to help with.

In any case, if anybody reaches the 8 weeks I will know by then the next course of action.

Mine did, and have an official complaints handler, to which I posted his response during the week. The fact he stated very clearly all customers would be getting an email this week, shows his trustworthyness.

I know why it hasn't been sent, but don't promise what you can't deliver.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Mine did, and have an official complaints handler, to which I posted his response during the week. The fact he stated very clearly all customers would be getting an email this week, shows his trustworthyness.

I know why it hasn't been sent, but don't promise what you can't deliver.

Absolutely, it seems fobbing off is the employed tactic at the minute.

Also, request for your data usually costs about £10. Companies do tend to listen when you do this but their refusal to handle the complaint will carry more than enough weight for now with the UKGC.

All in all though thanks again boys. A wrong has been corrected and all thanks to your tenacity. Although without punishment or some form of reimbursement......even an apology....I do not think the balance has been corrected.

My posts are not meant to anger, criticise or infuriate, more guide if wanted.

 

[thr0b]

They're not allowed to charge you for a copy of your data since the GDPR laws came in.

 

[mack341]

It all seems to be quiet from the ukgc, anyone have an idea if they're investigating what went on here?

I think it might be a better idea to write to the ukgc rather than be fobbed off by Coral's customer service team, millions of pounds have been played through popular games which advertised incorrect rtp information, that's got to be an issue for ukgc to investigate and then inform coral what they need to do re their customers/players...

edit: I wonder how much was played through the games, do coral/gala offer their product (in this case slots) to non-uk players as well?

 

[bamberfishcake]

They're not allowed to charge you for a copy of your data since the GDPR laws came in.

Nice! I know they used to. Well if it's free I say go for it.

Made £50 from a free £5 on BGO last week!

Well actually £130 but conversion limit and charge for withdrawal took to £47.50

 

[EkJR]

It all seems to be quiet from the ukgc, anyone have an idea if they're investigating what went on here?

I think it might be a better idea to write to the ukgc rather than be fobbed off by Coral's customer service team, millions of pounds have been played through popular games which advertised incorrect rtp information, that's got to be an issue for ukgc to investigate and then inform coral what they need to do re their customers/players...

edit: I wonder how much was played through the games, do coral/gala offer their product (in this case slots) to non-uk players as well?

I have raised it with them and I'm sure Colin has as well. Would urge others to do the same though.

 

[SpinUk]

None of these responses confirm an official complaint. They are in the forms of discussion and advice.

No emails I have seen either state 'i would like to make an official complaint'.

Until you are going through the complaints procedure you are just seen as having a casual chat regardless of the severity.

I have not deposited so do not think I have grounds for complaining. If I was I would state this -

'I am writing to make a formal complaint. Please reply confirming receipt and outlining the details of your complaints procedure. I believe that under UKGC guidelines you have 8 weeks from today's date.'

There is no need to go into too much detail until you are speaking with an appropriate complaints handler.

If they go silent then 8 weeks later I believe the next step would be an ADR which I believe CM may be able to help with.

In any case, if anybody reaches the 8 weeks I will know by then the next course of action.

You don’t need to signify it as a “official complaint” to make it a formal complaint. All complaints in writing will (should) be treated as formal and treated as such.

You could do a companies house search to find the directors and direct it all of them. This then becomes a “executive” complaint and will be taken more seriously. Of course the directors will unlikely even look at it but it will be taken more seriously and be dealt with for a company that size a separate team. I have done this twice with Hermes and Currys PC world and got a 24hr response

Although in this case the CS responses are puzzling, as we know the reps and therefore superiors are award of it. And they don’t seem concerned. At all. I do have personal view of why this might be I wouldn’t like to publicly speculate.

 

[shadow123]

Think the silence from UKGC is a pretty positive sign,they must considering the gravity of the case
and the appropriate sanctions,if it was just going to be a slap on the wrist i think we would have heard
something by now, seems to me that every day that is passing Coral are digging a deeper and deeper
hole,churning out total BS to any players asking what they are doing to address and resolve the situation.

 

[EkJR]

Think the silence from UKGC is a pretty positive sign,they must considering the gravity of the case
and the appropriate sanctions,if it was just going to be a slap on the wrist i think we would have heard
something by now, seems to me that every day that is passing Coral are digging a deeper and deeper
hole,churning out total BS to any players asking what they are doing to address and resolve the situation.

UKGC wont go back to anyone on things like this. They will just put a judgement out at some point in the coming weeks.

 

[SpinUk]

UKGC wont go back to anyone on things like this. They will just put a judgement out at some point in the coming weeks.

Agree but managment would normally be sending a blanket holding response - which they are not. Weird.

 

[EkJR]

Another response

Hello Thank you for contacting Customer Service. We understand that you have concern on RTP. We always ensure that our customers are treated fairly with a Fair Gaming Policy in place. We have many players that enjoy our Slots and Scratch cards in particular, and over the millions of bets that have been placed I can confirm that our return to player percentage is in line with the industry as a whole. We are reviewed and certified by TST (Technical Systems Testing Inc) who are an independent company that generate reports into the randomness of the RNG and ensure that this is running correctly. All of our customers whether they win or lose, are important to us. As well as this we have a strong brand that stands for integrity and would not risk damaging this reputation by providing our customers with unfair games. All casino slot games has a different RTP. You may check this link to see further details: You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[Jasminebed]

This really needs to be mainstream press. Is there a consumer watchdog TV show in the UK.
Are class action suits a thing in the UK? Millions of spins by thousands of players.

They should be issuing refunds to all players, based on bets placed, not the outcomes, and an additional sum to the consumers as a "Sincere apology and gesture of goodwill for this regrettable mistake". This wording is mine, but please feel free to use it Coral/Gala.

Geez, I miss Pinababy. I am sure she would have had some choice words on this issue.

 

[colinsunderland]

Another response

​

​ Hello Thank you for contacting Customer Service. We understand that you have concern on RTP. We always ensure that our customers are treated fairly with a Fair Gaming Policy in place. We have many players that enjoy our Slots and Scratch cards in particular, and over the millions of bets that have been placed I can confirm that our return to player percentage is in line with the industry as a whole. We are reviewed and certified by TST (Technical Systems Testing Inc) who are an independent company that generate reports into the randomness of the RNG and ensure that this is running correctly. All of our customers whether they win or lose, are important to us. As well as this we have a strong brand that stands for integrity and would not risk damaging this reputation by providing our customers with unfair games. All casino slot games has a different RTP. You may check this link to see further details: You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I've had that before in chat too. This is what I was meaning previously saying email is wasting time, everything you have had back so far, I've had on a single chat session, saving days of back and forwards.
The support based in Manila are absolutely useless, they are rude, they don't listen, they just copy and paste replies, and have absolutely no idea what they are talking about most the time. Why any company dealing with the public think this is a good idea is beyond me. This isn't just on this matter, ask them anything not likely to be in the script to see how bad they are. Ask them how the price returned on a forecast is arrived at, or the difference between a tricast and a trifecta, see what copy & paste answer you get!

 

[bamberfishcake]

You don’t need to signify it as a “official complaint” to make it a formal complaint. All complaints in writing will (should) be treated as formal and treated as such.

You could do a companies house search to find the directors and direct it all of them. This then becomes a “executive” complaint and will be taken more seriously. Of course the directors will unlikely even look at it but it will be taken more seriously and be dealt with for a company that size a separate team. I have done this twice with Hermes and Currys PC world and got a 24hr response

Although in this case the CS responses are puzzling, as we know the reps and therefore superiors are award of it. And they don’t seem concerned. At all. I do have personal view of why this might be I wouldn’t like to publicly speculate.

In banking in the UK, customer services can do what is called a 'first touch response' to a complaint. This allows them to solve any grievance without going through the formal complaint process.

I just wondered if it was similar for the UKGC and the majority of responses from CS I have seen would suggest no complaint has been recorded and the complaints process certainly not started.

I could'nt see anything in the guidelines regarding live chat, only email or telephone. But its still on my reading list.

In any case, they must confirm receipt of a complaint and then must attempt a satisfactory resolution before 8 weeks. I think if you mention complaint in your initial contact there is no grey area.

I hope there are some Coral players who have asked for refunds. Those generic fobs to look at their literature are most annoying and ive not deposited. Their arrogance and ignorant stance is not pretty and does not flatter a genuine mistake.

The fact remains they advertised a different return than the version being run. Should refund to correct and apologise, simple.

Reminds me a little of PPI adverts.........

Were you mis-sold RTP in the past?

Have you paid out for more than what you needed?

Corals are paying back their customers millions in refunds for mis-selling RTP. Dont miss out!

Call RTP Refunds on 0800 000 0000 now!

 

[pinnit2014]

In banking in the UK, customer services can do what is called a 'first touch response' to a complaint. This allows them to solve any grievance without going through the formal complaint process.

I just wondered if it was similar for the UKGC and the majority of responses from CS I have seen would suggest no complaint has been recorded and the complaints process certainly not started.

I could'nt see anything in the guidelines regarding live chat, only email or telephone. But its still on my reading list.

In any case, they must confirm receipt of a complaint and then must attempt a satisfactory resolution before 8 weeks. I think if you mention complaint in your initial contact there is no grey area.

I hope there are some Coral players who have asked for refunds. Those generic fobs to look at their literature are most annoying and ive not deposited. Their arrogance and ignorant stance is not pretty and does not flatter a genuine mistake.

The fact remains they advertised a different return than the version being run. Should refund to correct and apologise, simple.

Reminds me a little of PPI adverts.........

Were you mis-sold RTP in the past?

Have you paid out for more than what you needed?

Corals are paying back their customers millions in refunds for mis-selling RTP. Dont miss out!

Call RTP Refunds on 0800 000 0000 now!

Certainly in the public sector if you complain they have what's known as 'front stage' resolution where, in many cases it's resolved there and then (Oi, you aint lifted my bin - ok, we'll be out in an hour) - you still needed to record it as a complaint but very few do so as tricky to keep tabs on. But you then needed to say if you wanted it to go to the formal complaints setting if still not happy.

Many moons ago i used to occupy my working day reading some belters - there was one where someone complained the work they were getting done led to the death of their fish due to the noise, and that hey should have been quieter during the kitchen refit.

 

[colinsunderland]

Regarding the UKGC, I'm going to speak to them again this week. The auto response says they will respond within 20 working days, but also that they do not become involved in individual consumer complaints, and I was told on the phone I won't get any feedback or told what the outcome is, unless it requires regulatory action, in which case it will be published on their website when completed.

I don't think thats right in this case, so will be speaking to them midweek to see what they say, if nothing else, to find out if they want more information.

I haven't heard anything back from Coral complaints apart from the email I posted earlier in the thread.

The new Ladbrokes Coral rep who joined, said he wanted to improve the reputation of Ladbrokes and Coral, and would post on the thread when he got a few more answers. Hasn't been seen since Tuesday. Also hasn't responded to my last couple of PM's.

Another senior member of staff who is a member on here also contacted me, after Adam disappeared, and has said he won't be commenting on the thread, so therefore I think thats not going to happen. He cited his lack of response on here on a few things, one being that they are not accredited, which was something they didn't want, but this was the reason why they were removed (Bryan's words)

They told me that this was not a priority - and that if their non-responsiveness was reason enough to remove them from the accredited section, then they quote: "will review whether we want any further dealings with your site."

So not really anyone's fault except their own. Having said that I do understand other reasons why he won't comment on this thread, but that doesn't mean I think it's right, especially after the other rep stated he would be.

There are other things I have discussed with them both but as it was by PM I don't really want to get into that at this point, and none of it really affects whats happening at the moment. Obviously they have removed all the PnG games at Coral which at least is a step in the right direction, and most are still missing from Galacasino, Book of Dead now displays the correct RTP. Galaspins have at least one that is showing the incorrect RTP but that is like the one posted earlier, showing 94.00% rather than the correct 94.xx value. The loss limit is working ok on the 2 gala sites, but I know there was problems fixing it at Coral, which is probably why all the games are missing.

And thats about it so far.

 

[Siohmy]

My personal take on this is that their actions since the issue has come to light are more reprehensible than the error itself.

I’m somewhat cynical but am ok to believe that the original problem was an error. I would like to think if I were running a regulated casino and changed the platform of my slots that I’d check all the details for said slots were still valid, especially the most significant one, but maybe that’s just me.

What is not acceptable though is that they have been made aware of this from shortly after the change but have chosen to do nothing about it. In addition to this they appear to be determined to respond with stock answers which both avoid the issue and imply the player does not understand RTP as if that actually has any bearing in what has happened.

Fundamentally, as has been mentioned, they have effectively mis-sold a range of slots. They can stock answer all they like about how their slots meet industry averages, if their slots ran for a billion spins with this error they would come out 2% less to the player than what they are advertising, and some significant amount better off financially for the casino.

 

[Lemon]

.

 

[shadow123]

My thoughts exactly,they are treating players like idiots who dare to ask questions they dont like and
dont intend answering,I can believe it was a genuine mistake but cannot for the life of me understand
how it has not been dealt with

 

[nufc 1892]

having sent yet another email saying i was making a formal complaint about this matter and that they had to reply this was the response

 

[EkJR]

having sent yet another email saying i was making a formal complaint about this matter and that they had to reply this was the response

Standard response now. Pushed the other one to a complaint so will see what happens now but think it's now time to get the ADR involved.

 

[bamberfishcake]

having sent yet another email saying i was making a formal complaint about this matter and that they had to reply this was the response

If you complaint states that you played a different RTP version than what was stated in the help files and you feel this had a negative impact i.e. loss of money, then they have clearly avoided the issue of your complaint.

If you wish to take it further I would write back, maybe include some proof you have, saying your unhappy with them avoiding the issue and the response. As a result you will be taking it further if a satisfactory response addressing the issue is not received within the 8 week period.

Thats how i see it within the guidelines for complaints with the UKGC.

Edit: Missed your response @EkJR yes, ADR would be the next step.

2nd Edit: Unsure if there actually needs to be a negative impact to complain i.e. you could have won but there is an argument to say you could have won more i guess. Maybe somebody else might know more about this but no harm pushing for now to get a satisfactory resolution.

 

[colinsunderland]

2nd Edit: Unsure if there actually needs to be a negative impact to complain i.e. you could have won but there is an argument to say you could have won more i guess. Maybe somebody else might know more about this but no harm pushing for now to get a satisfactory resolution.

Yes, I mentioned that earlier in the thread.

Complaints procedure - I'm not sure 18.4 is very legal, would love to see that argued in court!
So the third email should be escalated to the Customer Service Manager



18.4 During the resolution process You must agree not to reveal the existence or detail of any enquiry, Complaints or Disputes to any third party, which could include discussions in chat rooms or equivalent forums and shall be deemed Confidential Information. In the event of unauthorised disclosure of confidential information, then the resolution process will be put on hold. In these circumstances we will also have the ability to freeze and potentially close Your account.
Complaints Procedure

18.5 The complaints procedure is as follows:

Stage 1
You should initially contact our Customer Support Team and an advisor (the Agent) will investigate the enquiry and respond to it. The Agent will log the call/message and make notes on their response.

Stage 2
Should your enquiry not be resolved at this stage, the matter will be referred to the Agent's Team/ Line Manager. The Team/ Line Manager will review the matter and communicate their decision to you.

Stage 3
If you still remain dissatisfied, the matter may be escalated to the Customer Support Manager, at which time your enquiry will be either recorded as a Complaint, or, where the matter relates to a betting or gaming transaction, a Dispute.

Complaints and Disputes Resolution Policy

18.6 The Complaints and Disputes resolution policy is as follows:
Upon receipt of an escalated enquiry, the Customer Support Manager will obtain a report from the nominated Agent and Line/Team Manager as appropriate and carry out any further necessary investigation and respond to you. The response of the Customer Support Manager represents the final stage of the Internal Complaints and Disputes procedure.
Should you remain dissatisfied in relation to a Dispute, you do have the option to escalate the matter externally via an Alternative Dispute Resolution provider. Please see below for more information.

 

[bamberfishcake]

then the resolution process will be put on hold.

This is interesting. It does not state how long it can or will be put on hold for anywhere you have seen?

Could be a point or angle they wish to try and use to their benefit and the mention of sharing sensitive information with 3rd parties is another which is open to interpretation.

In any case, complaints handling, contracts and t&c's cannot breach the guidelines set by the jurisdiction within which they operate.

Hopefully justice is served for those affected and a lesson in compliance taught/learnt when it comes to making sure your games are what they say they are.

It would also make sense for a new system or procedure to be written internally to ensure this doesnt happen in the future.

Couldnt agree more with slots having the rtp stated on the loading screen. Makes perfect sense and avoids any risk for this kind of error.