Guts, Rizk, & the rest, randomly listing players as SE

petro

Dormant account, per user request
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Here's the whole story.

I closed my Guts and Rizk account because they refused to compensate me correctly for their error. You can find that here: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casinos/71168-rizk-casino-10.html

When I closed my accounts they did not ask me why, given this indication I enquired why they didn't ask and I double checked that they were not self excluding me.
And they told me "No, we have not listed you as self-excluding, this is just a regular closed account."
There's even some documentation of that on CM somewhere.

Later here's what happened:

I went to Trada Casino and strangely the name of the casino in live chat was "Guts Casino."
Trada told me that the support is shared with Trada and Guts.
(Note: if my memory serves it was Trada. This was some weeks ago.)

Since there's a relationship between the two I didn't want to play there and I told them that.

Just today, I went to Cashmio Casino and signed up. No problems except I couldn't log on.
Support told me that they are a "sister" casino to Guts and that I had self excluded from Rizk, therefore I cannot play.


I can draw two conclusions from this:

There are at least 2 casinos (probably more) on the accredited list which are either run by or have a strong relationship to Guts Casino. Although, there's no information on the site informing members of this. This is important because if you have had a problem at one of their casinos you wouldn't want to play at one of their other casinos with a different skin.

Guts are adding people to the self exclusion list for no reason.


As per forum rules I have alerted a rep to this thread.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
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MM
No they don't list all other casinos that are sharing license, but they do have in their T&C's that if you self exclude it will effect all casinos under the same license. That's more than most others have.

The fact that you couldn't log in for that reason of being self excluded was great, because that mean that people who have self excluded can't sign up and play at the other casinos who share license, which they shouldn't either.

I don't know really how many they are now but Guts, Rizk, Betspin, Instacasino, Cashmio, CasinoPop, Ikubo and Dunder. I don't remember the rest.
Thrills and SuperLenny is owned by the same as Guts, Rizk and Betspin, and are on the same platform but they have their own licens so shouldn't be affected. The other casinos just run on the platform and use their license but are not owned by them.

Maybe they just listed you wrong at Rizk and can correct that. Not such a big del.

It can't have been Trada. They have nothing to do with Guts.
 

Mouche12

Kitty Lover
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No they don't list all other casinos that are sharing license, but they do have in their T&C's that if you self exclude it will effect all casinos under the same license. That's more than most others have.

The fact that you couldn't log in for that reason of being self excluded was great, because that mean that people who have self excluded can't sign up and play at the other casinos who share license, which they shouldn't either.

I don't know really how many they are now but Guts, Rizk, Betspin, Instacasino, Cashmio, CasinoPop, Ikubo and Dunder. I don't remember the rest.
Thrills and SuperLenny is owned by the same as Guts, Rizk and Betspin, and are on the same platform but they have their own licens so shouldn't be affected. The other casinos just run on the platform and use their license but are not owned by them.

Maybe they just listed you wrong at Rizk and can correct that. Not such a big del.

It can't have been Trada. They have nothing to do with Guts.
Frankly, I think it's quite a big deal. What if the OP had opened an account (was accepted), played, won big and his winnings were subsequently confiscated? Of course, he would have been able to prove afterward that he was not SE and that the casinos in question had made a mistake. Still, a lot of aggrevation for a mistake that should never have been made. SE is a serious matter and is very different from simply closing one's account for the above-mentioned reasons.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Frankly, I think it's quite a big deal. What if the OP had opened an account (was accepted), played, won big and his winnings were subsequently confiscated? Of course, he would have been able to prove afterward that he was not SE and that the casinos in question had made a mistake. Still, a lot of aggrevation for a mistake that should never have been made. SE is a serious matter and is very different from simply closing one's account for the above-mentioned reasons.
No, he wouldn't been able to do that since he couldn't sign up. I thought we knew these guys pretty well in this forum. They would never confiscate or do anything that wasn't ok, and they have fought hard to fix all of these problems that have popped up with people having self excuded, or being listed as that by mistake.
It's humans working there and it is possible to talk to them.

This could be some easy mistake that Petro just as well could have asked them about.
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
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No, he wouldn't been able to do that since he couldn't sign up. I thought we knew these guys pretty well in this forum. They would never confiscate or do anything that wasn't ok, and they have fought hard to fix all of these problems that have popped up with people having self excuded, or being listed as that by mistake.
It's humans working there and it is possible to talk to them.

This could be some easy mistake that Petro just as well could have asked them about.
I never did get any explanation of why when on Rizk chat my Guts a/c was suddenly reopened as we chatted yet the rep at Guts denied it could be done by the Rizk chat. I never got an answer as to what happened. The other day I noticed on my old Guts a/c I had a notice to submit docs when I tried to log-in which I did only to receive an e-mail back saying I'm excluded somewhere else and couldn't play anyway!

It's all over the place at and has been for a while.

And I'm sorry they HAVEN'T fought hard because like the EMSEB issue they have failed to spend 10 minutes updating registration forms/terms with a listing of sister sites under the same license to:

A. Stop players wasting time registering when it's pointless.
B. Prevent EMSEB-type incidences of players winning then not being paid.

The onus is on the licensee/casino to advertise fairly and have inclusive, fair and comprehensive T&C's in accordance with consumer laws. That includes listing vital points such as sister sites. I say the same to any player at any casino group - IF you sign-up and don't get paid due to something NOT in the terms (and that includes a list of sister sites as it's not a fair or complete term just to say 'other casinos in our group' and expect the player to research this outside the terms!!!!) then issue a County Court Summons and you will be paid for the reasons above.

I say this not just to GUTS but ALL casino groups - if you're happy enough to have multiple properties/White Labels to increase revenue and profits under your license but are unwilling to meet basic Consumer Laws with your terms and are unwilling to take responsibility for players being misled and not being informed, then you deserve every CCJ you get - the EveryMatrix Court Judgement will just be the start, and good too.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
A. Stop players wasting time registering when it's pointless.
B. Prevent EMSEB-type incidences of players winning then not being paid.
I will just comment these.
A.Self excluded players shouldn't try and sign up, but if they try they can't.
B.That shouldn't happen now either since as soon as anyone self exclude from one site the other accounts in the group is closed too.

Then I'll stay out of this thread because i suspect another hunt will start, over a complaint that could and should have been solved easy, and I believe the reps will respond in a more knowledgeble way.
 

petro

Dormant account, per user request
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It can't have been Trada. They have nothing to do with Guts.
Yes, you are right. I suspect I'm thinking of SuperLenny. One of those casinos had shared support...

The onus is on the licensee/casino to advertise fairly and have inclusive, fair and comprehensive T&C's in accordance with consumer laws. That includes listing vital points such as sister sites.
You make a good point there. They should more freely disclose what other sites they own.
 

dunover

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Staff member
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I will just comment these.
A.Self excluded players shouldn't try and sign up, but if they try they can't.
B.That shouldn't happen now either since as soon as anyone self exclude from one site the other accounts in the group is closed too.

Then I'll stay out of this thread because i suspect another hunt will start, over a complaint that could and should have been solved easy, and I believe the reps will respond in a more knowledgeble way.
A. Why shouldn't they try and sign up? Remember at the sign-up stage they have no idea it will affect THIS new casino have they, because there is NO mention of the sister sites, is there?

B. That's pretty normal, Redbet/Whitebet and others do that, nothing special but simply following license rules.

It is GOOD however if the group that GUTS is in are spotting excluded details at the sign-up stage if somebody tries to join a sister site. This is what EM should be doing. :thumbsup:

But going back to my original point, if ALL casinos followed basic consumer regulations this whole scenario wouldn't exist would it? Casinos have a huge reluctance to disclose, despite consumer regulations, sister casinos and until the useless UKGC finally pulls its head out of the sand they will continue to provide incomplete and unfair terms, because they are all getting away with it - hopefully for not much longer as the incidence of CCJ's grows.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
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MM
A. Why shouldn't they try and sign up? Remember at the sign-up stage they have no idea it will affect THIS new casino have they, because there is NO mention of the sister sites, is there?

B. That's pretty normal, Redbet/Whitebet and others do that, nothing special but simply following license rules.

It is GOOD however if the group that GUTS is in are spotting excluded details at the sign-up stage if somebody tries to join a sister site. This is what EM should be doing. :thumbsup:

But going back to my original point, if ALL casinos followed basic consumer regulations this whole scenario wouldn't exist would it? Casinos have a huge reluctance to disclose, despite consumer regulations, sister casinos and until the useless UKGC finally pulls its head out of the sand they will continue to provide incomplete and unfair terms, because they are all getting away with it - hopefully for not much longer as the incidence of CCJ's grows.
So 5 minutes of filling a form to find out that you can't open an account. That's not the whole world is it dunover?:)

I would love it if they list all other sites, but for the one who self exclude it shouldn't matter because that person shouldn't gamble.
We need to be stricter these days and really tell people to never self exclude anywhere if they have plans to keep on playing.
I really hope you have stopped doing that now dunover. It didn't cause the same problem before but now it does. Never self exclude if you don't have a problem!!

I also understand perfectly why they don't list other sites. No need to discuss that. I don't like it but I understand.
 

jjezebel37

Meister Member
mm1
I never did get any explanation of why when on Rizk chat my Guts a/c was suddenly reopened as we chatted yet the rep at Guts denied it could be done by the Rizk chat. I never got an answer as to what happened. The other day I noticed on my old Guts a/c I had a notice to submit docs when I tried to log-in which I did only to receive an e-mail back saying I'm excluded somewhere else and couldn't play anyway!

It's all over the place at and has been for a while.

And I'm sorry they HAVEN'T fought hard because like the EMSEB issue they have failed to spend 10 minutes updating registration forms/terms with a listing of sister sites under the same license to:

A. Stop players wasting time registering when it's pointless.
B. Prevent EMSEB-type incidences of players winning then not being paid.

The onus is on the licensee/casino to advertise fairly and have inclusive, fair and comprehensive T&C's in accordance with consumer laws. That includes listing vital points such as sister sites. I say the same to any player at any casino group - IF you sign-up and don't get paid due to something NOT in the terms (and that includes a list of sister sites as it's not a fair or complete term just to say 'other casinos in our group' and expect the player to research this outside the terms!!!!) then issue a County Court Summons and you will be paid for the reasons above.

I say this not just to GUTS but ALL casino groups - if you're happy enough to have multiple properties/White Labels to increase revenue and profits under your license but are unwilling to meet basic Consumer Laws with your terms and are unwilling to take responsibility for players being misled and not being informed, then you deserve every CCJ you get - the EveryMatrix Court Judgement will just be the start, and good too.
The same has happened with me at Guts.

I have mailed the rep a fortnight ago with no answer as I was already verified there.

I'm not reopening my account or sending docs until I know the reason why.
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
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So 5 minutes of filling a form to find out that you can't open an account. That's not the whole world is it dunover?:)

I would love it if they list all other sites, but for the one who self exclude it shouldn't matter because that person shouldn't gamble.
We need to be stricter these days and really tell people to never self exclude anywhere if they have plans to keep on playing.
I really hope you have stopped doing that now dunover. It didn't cause the same problem before but now it does. Never self exclude if you don't have a problem!!

I also understand perfectly why they don't list other sites. No need to discuss that. I don't like it but I understand.
So if you queued at the petrol pump for 5 minutes, only to find it had run out and nobody had put a sign on it, it wouldn't piss you off?

Unnecessary waste of life. :mad:
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
So if you queued at the petrol pump for 5 minutes, only to find it had run out and nobody had put a sign on it, it wouldn't piss you off?

Unnecessary waste of life. :mad:
It's not the whole world though :)

Besides, if you think a bit further then in that case the list of casinos who share the same licens should be in the email a player recieve when he self exclude.
That way he already know. No need to wast his time. If it's new he can check the license but I would preffer if he didn't play at all since he have self excluded!!!!
Also when you read the rules for self exclusion it clearly says that all casinos who share the same license is effected.
 

Captain Rizk

Experienced Member
Hi Petro, thanks for alerting me to the thread via PM can you also pm me your email address so that I can look into this.

If I understand your post correctly you believe your guys and rizk accounts should have been closed at your own request but now it appears that you are self excluded.

For the record there is no compnay/group/licence link whatsoever to Trade casino
 

1366613

Senior Member
Here's the whole story.

I closed my Guts and Rizk account because they refused to compensate me correctly for their error. You can find that here: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casinos/71168-rizk-casino-10.html

When I closed my accounts they did not ask me why, given this indication I enquired why they didn't ask and I double checked that they were not self excluding me.
And they told me "No, we have not listed you as self-excluding, this is just a regular closed account."
There's even some documentation of that on CM somewhere.

Later here's what happened:

I went to Trada Casino and strangely the name of the casino in live chat was "Guts Casino."
Trada told me that the support is shared with Trada and Guts.
(Note: if my memory serves it was Trada. This was some weeks ago.)

Since there's a relationship between the two I didn't want to play there and I told them that.

Just today, I went to Cashmio Casino and signed up. No problems except I couldn't log on.
Support told me that they are a "sister" casino to Guts and that I had self excluded from Rizk, therefore I cannot play.


I can draw two conclusions from this:

There are at least 2 casinos (probably more) on the accredited list which are either run by or have a strong relationship to Guts Casino. Although, there's no information on the site informing members of this. This is important because if you have had a problem at one of their casinos you wouldn't want to play at one of their other casinos with a different skin.

Guts are adding people to the self exclusion list for no reason.


As per forum rules I have alerted a rep to this thread.
I have the same problem with guts, they refused to compensate me correctly for their error. So I closed my account, and they closed it as selfexclude.... dindt know that untill I cant loging to rizk, where they closed my account, so contacted guts support and they change that self exclude to just close, but Rizk refuse to open my account when guts did that mistake. Have the same with chancehill but they understand and let me continue playing.
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
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It's not the whole world though :)

Besides, if you think a bit further then in that case the list of casinos who share the same licens should be in the email a player recieve when he self exclude.
That way he already know. No need to wast his time. If it's new he can check the license but I would preffer if he didn't play at all since he have self excluded!!!!
Also when you read the rules for self exclusion it clearly says that all casinos who share the same license is effected.
But how on earth is the poor player supposed to know WHICH casinos share the license when they're not in the rules??????? That's my whole point and this is where the limp-wristed UKGC needs to act.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
But how on earth is the poor player supposed to know WHICH casinos share the license when they're not in the rules??????? That's my whole point and this is where the limp-wristed UKGC needs to act.
Why do the poor player need to know? They can simply be told through an email when they have self excluded.

When they have self excluded they shouldn't play at all, but then they at least know.


This thread was about someone that have been self excluded even though he'd been assured that that wasn't the case when he closed his account.
That needs to be checked and solved, and the other two with similar experiences. This thread shouldn't have been started though since we are suppose to try and solve issues with the reps first. In this case that wasn't done.

I guess we all are just as tired on these SE issues.
 

Mouche12

Kitty Lover
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Yes, but GUTS' casino rep Yits has not replied to any messages and that causes people to post their experiences...
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
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MM
Yes, but GUTS' casino rep Yits has not replied to any messages and that causes people to post their experiences...
I thought the rules here said that we should try and solve issues through the casinos and the reps first before posting complaints.
This is a complain posted in that section. They were not asked to solve anything before it was posted.
 

miksaxxx

Senior Member
Yes, but GUTS' casino rep Yits has not replied to any messages and that causes people to post their experiences...
I sended him yesterday email and linked this thread , usually he write back in Office hours. So maybe he comes, today evening to clarify thinks.

maybe he also need to :Read: first this thread.
 
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