Guts.com Dont like 'Lucky' Customers

[mickyf]

Been playing at guts.com for quite some time and today had my account restricted? I contacted their support and here is there response.
Basically they don't like customers who withdraw more than they deposit and take advantage of the promotions that they offer!!???!!!

Hello again Michael,
I have gone over your account details again. Looking over your deposit history, in the last 2 months a vast majority of your deposits have come in on days where we offered either free spins or deposit bonuses, with no indication of any regular play on days where we might not be offering a bonus or extras. While we understand that our offers are very popular and shouldn't be missed, regular game play usually also includes deposits when no bonus may be offered.

Please find your statistics for the last 6 months below, outlining further reasoning behind the decision:

total deposits: £1393.00 (€1935.00)
total withdrawals: £3043.74 (€4192.92)
return to player: 115.48 %

total bonus cost: £460.00 (€637.00)

Looking at these statistics, it looks like you have very high bonus percentage on your overall deposits and withdrawals, which unfortunately does limit us in the our capacity in offering further bonuses. Please understand that while we enjoy giving out the many offers and extras we have on offer, these are mainly geared toward the users who are not doing so well and may have lost.
The statistics above however indicate that you have been very lucky on our website, which we are happy to see as we do of course want our customers to also win. On the other hand, it is reason for us to restrict your account with regards to bonuses for the future, as your total bonus cost (which on average is between 5-10% of net deposits) is unusually high.
You have our full understanding that this may come as a disappointment to you, however we do hope that the reasons outlined above explain the decision making within the management group better to you. We are of course very happy to have you continue playing at Guts, and we hope that you continue having such good luck on our casino, however the decision must in this case unfortunately rest.
Thank you for your understanding and have a nice day.
Kind regards,
--
Nisar


Hi Michael,


Thank you for contacting us.

To clarify the situation, the account has been restricted by management on the basis that deposits are made only to claim a promotional offer, without any indication of regular play as you also mention and confirm as correct. As we want to continue to offer good offers for our new and old players that are also having regular game play, we need to restrict these accounts, whereof yours is included unfortunately.

I am very sorry to hear about the disappointment expressed in this decision. We have also had a closer look into the account and based on the factors we review, and while we appreciate you taking the time to contact us - the decision which has been originally communicated will need to stand and the account will remain with its restrictions without an alterable option unfortunately.

I regret to deliver the disappointing decision but do thank you for your understanding in advance.

Have a continued lovely evening
Kind regards,
--
Nisar


What do you think?

I think its out of order myself?

 

[citizenx]

Been playing at guts.com for quite some time and today had my account restricted? I contacted their support and here is there response.
Basically they don't like customers who withdraw more than they deposit and take advantage of the promotions that they offer!!???!!!

Hello again Michael,
I have gone over your account details again. Looking over your deposit history, in the last 2 months a vast majority of your deposits have come in on days where we offered either free spins or deposit bonuses, with no indication of any regular play on days where we might not be offering a bonus or extras. While we understand that our offers are very popular and shouldn't be missed, regular game play usually also includes deposits when no bonus may be offered.

Please find your statistics for the last 6 months below, outlining further reasoning behind the decision:

total deposits: £1393.00 (€1935.00)
total withdrawals: £3043.74 (€4192.92)
return to player: 115.48 %

total bonus cost: £460.00 (€637.00)

Looking at these statistics, it looks like you have very high bonus percentage on your overall deposits and withdrawals, which unfortunately does limit us in the our capacity in offering further bonuses. Please understand that while we enjoy giving out the many offers and extras we have on offer, these are mainly geared toward the users who are not doing so well and may have lost.
The statistics above however indicate that you have been very lucky on our website, which we are happy to see as we do of course want our customers to also win. On the other hand, it is reason for us to restrict your account with regards to bonuses for the future, as your total bonus cost (which on average is between 5-10% of net deposits) is unusually high.
You have our full understanding that this may come as a disappointment to you, however we do hope that the reasons outlined above explain the decision making within the management group better to you. We are of course very happy to have you continue playing at Guts, and we hope that you continue having such good luck on our casino, however the decision must in this case unfortunately rest.
Thank you for your understanding and have a nice day.
Kind regards,
--
Nisar


Hi Michael,


Thank you for contacting us.

To clarify the situation, the account has been restricted by management on the basis that deposits are made only to claim a promotional offer, without any indication of regular play as you also mention and confirm as correct. As we want to continue to offer good offers for our new and old players that are also having regular game play, we need to restrict these accounts, whereof yours is included unfortunately.

I am very sorry to hear about the disappointment expressed in this decision. We have also had a closer look into the account and based on the factors we review, and while we appreciate you taking the time to contact us - the decision which has been originally communicated will need to stand and the account will remain with its restrictions without an alterable option unfortunately.

I regret to deliver the disappointing decision but do thank you for your understanding in advance.

Have a continued lovely evening
Kind regards,
--
Nisar


What do you think?

I think its out of order myself?

My opinion is this - I wouldn't like it to happen to me and I empathise with you BUT at the same time, I see the point Guts are making.

Have to be truthful in saying that I go where the offers are and i want the best value for my deposits and usually play Guts on a Monday and Thursday because that will result in some FS even if I lose.

At the same time, when there is no promotional offer I will always fall back to a site which offers cashback (Videoslots/Slotty). I don't do this to exploit casinos but to get the best deal for myself. I assume you are the same.

Guts are a good company and look after their players but at the same time, they are a business and have to make a profit.

All I would ask them is to consider a warning before making a permanent change to a players account.

That way, you get a chance to consider your playing a bit better and give them a chance to make a profit once in a while.

Unfortunately, I would say your post serves as a warning for the rest of us. On that note, I'm going to boost up my deposit limit and try and remember to play there when there are no promos. I don't mind them making a profit and to be fair, I've had a fair few decent wins there.

I'm sorry for your situation but I think you can probably understand their reasons even if it seems a bit harsh. I hope they have a look at the thread and consider whether a warning in the first instance is an option for them. If so, it might be nice to consider your initial email a warning and give you a chance to play a bit more on days where there are no offers.

 

[miksaxxx]

Oh...

Looks like Yits have job to do..

But Guts is the best with comps, if you lose much. .

I have noticed from other casinos, that when i have had winning strike . This situation comes.

 

[mickyf]

Yes I agree with what you are saying, perhaps a warning first would of sufficed. Never had any issues with guts that's why I'm so surprised.
Makes you wonder what they would do if you hit a jackpot lol

 

[Chipkin9]

My opinion is this - I wouldn't like it to happen to me and I empathise with you BUT at the same time, I see the point Guts are making.

Have to be truthful in saying that I go where the offers are and i want the best value for my deposits and usually play Guts on a Monday and Thursday because that will result in some FS even if I lose.

At the same time, when there is no promotional offer I will always fall back to a site which offers cashback (Videoslots/Slotty). I don't do this to exploit casinos but to get the best deal for myself. I assume you are the same.

Guts are a good company and look after their players but at the same time, they are a business and have to make a profit.

All I would ask them is to consider a warning before making a permanent change to a players account.

That way, you get a chance to consider your playing a bit better and give them a chance to make a profit once in a while.

Unfortunately, I would say your post serves as a warning for the rest of us. On that note, I'm going to boost up my deposit limit and try and remember to play there when there are no promos. I don't mind them making a profit and to be fair, I've had a fair few decent wins there.

I'm sorry for your situation but I think you can probably understand their reasons even if it seems a bit harsh. I hope they have a look at the thread and consider whether a warning in the first instance is an option for them. If so, it might be nice to consider your initial email a warning and give you a chance to play a bit more on days where there are no offers.

I am the exact same. I will deposit somewhere I am getting a bonus when I haven't enough to play a straight deposit.

Scouring the internet for places I haven't played and looking for a 150% match is something I will do when funds are low on a particular date.

Guts are definitely a great casino. Accredited, great customer support, good loyalty bonuses and extremely fast at processing payments, they know what the player likes and values.

However, if mickyf had have not been in the profit zone, do we honestly think Guts would have locked his account?

I am going to be honest and say, no they wouldn't have. Let's be fair and honest here.

No Casino is going to ban a player they are making profit from, regardless of taking bonuses.

 

[Jono777]

I feel for you, being bonus banned is never nice, especially if you are a low roller.

However this post could have been made about any casino not just Guts.

I learnt my lesson (only needed to happen once!) quickly, the odd' Cash Only' deposit now and again is well worth it to protect yourself from these instances and casinos will look on this in your favour.

 

[mickyf]

I am the exact same. I will deposit somewhere I am getting a bonus when I haven't enough to play a straight deposit.

Scouring the internet for places I haven't played and looking for a 150% match is something I will do when funds are low on a particular date.

Guts are definitely a great casino. Accredited, great customer support, good loyalty bonuses and extremely fast at processing payments, they know what the player likes and values.

However, if mickyf had have not been in the profit zone, do we honestly think Guts would have locked his account?

I am going to be honest and say, no they wouldn't have. Let's be fair and honest here.

No Casino is going to ban a player they are making profit from, regardless of taking bonuses.

Its shocking really, I'm afraid guts in my opinion are now Discriminative and wrong.

Yes they 'were' a good casino, but this surely is not fair? Or are they having a clear out of so called lucky players??

I play at quite a lot of casinos and do take advantage of promotions, I also do the odd cash deposit with no promotion attached.

Only yesterday I deposited £50 at guts with no promotion attached, didn't win by the way lol

 

[Casinomeister]

Yes I agree with what you are saying, perhaps a warning first would of sufficed. Never had any issues with guts that's why I'm so surprised.
Makes you wonder what they would do if you hit a jackpot lol

Are you implying that they would confiscate your winnings if you hit a jackpot during bonus play? If so, that's a crock of shit, and the only person out of line is you.

They are doing you a favor on disallowing you to play with a bonus. Bonuses are designed to lock you into a wagering requirement that in most cases you can't make.

Bonuses are not obligatory. Try playing without them, and you'll probably find that it's quite refreshing.

 

[Tirilej]

Only yesterday I deposited £50 at guts with no promotion attached, didn't win by the way lol

Great! Keep doing that and you will get your bonuses back.

I have no problem if a casino are doing this if they do it in the right way and explain the reason. Guts did. If you dont understand their point then it's sad.
Just accept that they are a business like any other place. No reason to complain.
If you don't want the bonuses back by playing without one then go somewhere else. Im sure it will happen again

@ Bryan
Guts are giving wagerless free spins so it's not so much about bonuses as the free spins I believe.

 

[mickyf]

Great! Keep doing that and you will get your bonuses back.

I have no problem if a casino are doing this if they do it in the right way and explain the reason. Guts did. If you dont understand their point then it's sad.
Just accept that they are a business like any other place. No reason to complain.
If you don't want the bonuses back by playing without one then go somewhere else. Im sure it will happen again

@ Bryan Guts are giving wagerless free spins so it's not so much about bonuses as the free spins I believe.

Don't think you understand, they have stopped me using my account full stop with or without bonus/promotions

And yes the reason they have stated is unfair, would they still do it if I was in profit and not had used any bonuses? I think so, basically they don't like people wining in my humble opinion!

 

[Borgie]

Don't think you understand, they have stopped me using my account full stop with or without bonus/promotions

And yes the reason they have stated is unfair, would they still do it if I was in profit and not had used any bonuses? I think so, basically they don't like people wining in my humble opinion!

That does seem a bit extreme

 

[goatwack]

It is shocking to hear the bluntness of their stance on this but I'm sure they feel the bonus acts like a buffer that is being exploited far too often. Players like bonuses for the added insurance and playtime whilst casinos offer them due to the double whammy of wagering reqs and the games' built-in house edge.

I can imagine bonuses are most casinos' primary income, so to repeatedly see a customer profit from them with a 115% RTP can't be good for business!

From a player's point of view, I like my bonuses as much as anyone else and will take a good one when it is offered, but will also make a point of depositing with straight cash.....often into the same place I have just possibly withdrawn from. Doh! I like handing the casinos their bonus back, I'm nice like that.

I do feel players are starting to be made to feel bad for taking bonuses as a whole, I take them when offered but don't expect them or feel entitled to them. I am fully aware that it is the casino's money I am making stupid bets with..........saying that I feel the whole bonus system is antiquated and will need to be replaced by something better. This should make for an interesting time in the industry & to see how casinos will evolve and move with the times. Time to pull their finger out and stop demonizing ALL players for the sins of a few (bonus abusers)

 

[citizenx]

Don't think you understand, they have stopped me using my account full stop with or without bonus/promotions

And yes the reason they have stated is unfair, would they still do it if I was in profit and not had used any bonuses? I think so, basically they don't like people wining in my humble opinion!

Hmm.

Didn't realise that but it certainly made me think about this. I was under the impression you'd been bonus banned, not banned entirely.

So, you're a new poster here who only posts when they've had issues with reputable providers and all your issues relate to bonus play.

I've yet to hear of Guts banning someone simply for winning and the amounts you've posted aren't exactly bank breakers for a casino.

I'm sorry but I feel there is more to it than meets the eye.

*walks away quietly*

 

[mickyf]

Hmm.

Didn't realise that but it certainly made me think about this. I was under the impression you'd been bonus banned, not banned entirely.

So, you're a new poster here who only posts when they've had issues with reputable providers and all your issues relate to bonus play.

I've yet to hear of Guts banning someone simply for winning and the amounts you've posted aren't exactly bank breakers for a casino.

I'm sorry but I feel there is more to it than meets the eye.

*walks away quietly*

May I kindly ask what are you insinuating ?
And you wonder why I don't post on here regularly?

 

[Jono777]

Oh Dear not again

Thread upgraded to closed lol

 

[citizenx]

May I kindly ask what are you insinuating ?
And you wonder why I don't post on here regularly?

All i'll say is, stick around and you'll see it in other threads in due course. I'm not suggesting there is anything untoward BUT i am saying it fits a pattern many of us have seen before.

 

[mickyf]

All i'll say is, stick around and you'll see it in other threads in due course. I'm not suggesting there is anything untoward BUT i am saying it fits a pattern many of us have seen before.

OK, I will

 

[jackanory2279]

you did well to profit from a bonus.. only ever use a deposit bonus a spend a 10 bob note to play doa.. never expect to win ofcourse

 

[Jd666]

Hmm.

Didn't realise that but it certainly made me think about this. I was under the impression you'd been bonus banned, not banned entirely.

So, you're a new poster here who only posts when they've had issues with reputable providers and all your issues relate to bonus play.

I've yet to hear of Guts banning someone simply for winning and the amounts you've posted aren't exactly bank breakers for a casino.

I'm sorry but I feel there is more to it than meets the eye.

*walks away quietly*

There isnt more than meets the eye, they have also done it to me, saying bonus play. Im a small depositer so take them to extend playtime, and if i win then its a bonus.
If they dont want you to take them then they shouldnt offer them.

Its very rare i even play at Guts and i dont take the free spins they randomly throw in accounts, although i did the DOA champion thingy.

Live chat told me to contact "team leaders" to more or less beg to be let back on.

They didnt even have the decency to email me and let me know, i only found out when in tried to deposit this morning and a deposit restricted notice came up. So whats the point of even being able to log in.
Nevermind, i went on Videoslots (without a bonus) and won a few quid.

Im not really bothered about it to be honest, as i say it should have been worth at least an email sending to me.

 

[Guts - Yits]

Hi

Hello,

I was just alerted of this thread now, sorry for the late involvement - I have a large CM backlog the last 2 days as I'm juggling a lot at once - so bear with me if my responses aren't immediate.

Firstly, I just wish to state that the reason that support deny deposits in some of these cases is because they wish to ensure the player in question does not (re)deposit prior to reading the email and being duly informed. So, for instance:

You are blocked from bonuses and free spins (be it temporarily or permanently)--> you get emailed about this-->it's Thursday, and you want to participate in the triple Thursday promotion, so you make a deposit. You have yet to read the email in question.--> You log in on Friday to get your free spins, and see they aren't there....you will be even more angry than you are now.

This is the scenario they wished to avoid. It is, in my opinion, not exactly the right approach but they just explained their reasoning to me and I know the guys well, they do it purely to minimise the disgruntlement that might be caused based on past experiences.

Having said that, I reiterate that the actions taken here are not necessarily the best approach. I am still relatively new at Guts, and a lot of these decisions are made by the senior payments or CS team members and implemented by them, outside of my involvement. We have strong staff and an empowered CS and payments teams whom we trust and who are equals to operational "9-5" staff (most casinos do not function like that, and CS are rarely empowered) and I have full confidence in their judgement. But we do need to align more with one another, and occasionally refresh and review procedures of this nature. They shall remain empowered in all cases going forward due to their high level of knowledge and capabilities, but for these specific decisions I have called a temporary halt until we do a full review of this procedure, likely in the next fortnight. For now, all these decisions shall be double-checked by myself (purely for second-opinion sanity-checks, I stress I do not feel they have done anything shocking) until we re-align and re-empower them.

For the record, I only wish to see deny deposit implementation for cases such as: players gambling too much, with money they don't have/ players suspected of fraud/ tinkering with games/ depositing with other peoples funds/ pooling cash/ working as a syndicate/ identity theft/ expressing racial or just unacceptable abuse in their communications with the casino and/or on forums...etc..etc.. Basically people that everyone would like to see having deposits denied.

@mickyf - I am reviewing your case, please give me a maximum of 24 hours to come back with a final response. In the meantime, we shall re-allow deposits with immediate effect, and there shall be £25 in cash waiting in your account within 10 minutes as a gesture for having caused distress. Communicate with me via this thread, or PM me, or both - as you see fit.

@rest - there are some very interesting points and opinions raised in this thread, I shall strive to address some of them as soon as I can (I'm trying to get an Xmas promo live, so as I said at the start, I am a bit sluggish in my CM activity )

As always, kindest regards to all.

Yits

 

[dunover]

OP - It can't be 'Christmas every day' and you know it. Would you expect happy-hour in a pub to last 24/7? Some less worthy casinos would have used a vague FU 'spirit of the bonus' term against you and not even paid you - GUTS didn't!

32red also ration bonuses. No player can keep getting a free ride. Obviously their system has blanket bonusing so unlike 32red say they can't just let you play without one by simply not having it present in your a/c when you log-in to deposit. That's all they're saying.

Bonuses are a privilege, not a right and too many people forget that.

 

[gagamel]

OP - It can't be 'Christmas every day' and you know it. Would you expect happy-hour in a pub to last 24/7? Some less worthy casinos would have used a vague FU 'spirit of the bonus' term against you and not even paid you - GUTS didn't!

32red also ration bonuses. No player can keep getting a free ride. Obviously their system has blanket bonusing so unlike 32red say they can't just let you play without one by simply not having it present in your a/c when you log-in to deposit. That's all they're saying.

Bonuses are a privilege, not a right and too many people forget that.

That`s the point.

 

[citizenx]

That`s the point.

I'd say they were an incentive, an inducement - a quid pro quo rather than a gift. Both parties gain something from the deal - individually and collectively.

They are there to be offered (or not) and taken (or not).

Providing both parties understand, or have the necessary information available to do so, what is being granted in return for what then there is no issue.

It is up to individual casinos whom they offer them to and it is up to players to determine whether to accept the deal or not. If a casino withdraws bonus offers from specific players then they're within their rights to decide whether they wish to play at the casino or not.

I don't think that considering them as some sort of one sided gift is appropriate, in most cases. There are some exceptions, such as 1x or less wagering then that may be the case but otherwise, no.

 

[Casino2014man]

Hello,

I was just alerted of this thread now, sorry for the late involvement - I have a large CM backlog the last 2 days as I'm juggling a lot at once - so bear with me if my responses aren't immediate.

Firstly, I just wish to state that the reason that support deny deposits in some of these cases is because they wish to ensure the player in question does not (re)deposit prior to reading the email and being duly informed. So, for instance:

You are blocked from bonuses and free spins (be it temporarily or permanently)--> you get emailed about this-->it's Thursday, and you want to participate in the triple Thursday promotion, so you make a deposit. You have yet to read the email in question.--> You log in on Friday to get your free spins, and see they aren't there....you will be even more angry than you are now.

This is the scenario they wished to avoid. It is, in my opinion, not exactly the right approach but they just explained their reasoning to me and I know the guys well, they do it purely to minimise the disgruntlement that might be caused based on past experiences.

Having said that, I reiterate that the actions taken here are not necessarily the best approach. I am still relatively new at Guts, and a lot of these decisions are made by the senior payments or CS team members and implemented by them, outside of my involvement. We have strong staff and an empowered CS and payments teams whom we trust and who are equals to operational "9-5" staff (most casinos do not function like that, and CS are rarely empowered) and I have full confidence in their judgement. But we do need to align more with one another, and occasionally refresh and review procedures of this nature. They shall remain empowered in all cases going forward due to their high level of knowledge and capabilities, but for these specific decisions I have called a temporary halt until we do a full review of this procedure, likely in the next fortnight. For now, all these decisions shall be double-checked by myself (purely for second-opinion sanity-checks, I stress I do not feel they have done anything shocking) until we re-align and re-empower them.

For the record, I only wish to see deny deposit implementation for cases such as: players gambling too much, with money they don't have/ players suspected of fraud/ tinkering with games/ depositing with other peoples funds/ pooling cash/ working as a syndicate/ identity theft/ expressing racial or just unacceptable abuse in their communications with the casino and/or on forums...etc..etc.. Basically people that everyone would like to see having deposits denied.

@mickyf - I am reviewing your case, please give me a maximum of 24 hours to come back with a final response. In the meantime, we shall re-allow deposits with immediate effect, and there shall be £25 in cash waiting in your account within 10 minutes as a gesture for having caused distress. Communicate with me via this thread, or PM me, or both - as you see fit.

@rest - there are some very interesting points and opinions raised in this thread, I shall strive to address some of them as soon as I can (I'm trying to get an Xmas promo live, so as I said at the start, I am a bit sluggish in my CM activity )

As always, kindest regards to all.

Yits

Nice gesture to the OP in there, Guts awesome as always.

Just wondering how you decide on this? The bit in bold? Or do you just mean self excluders

 

[asadzareef89]

recently guts has become tighter, i got bonus banned few weeks ago, still i deposit on Monday's and Thursday's because thats where i had squeezed them in my weekly gaming

Also if they say we are taking advantage of offers they should change their marketing style from saying deposit and get bonus/freespins to depositing frequently to get offers will lead your account to be bonus banned

I still play there cuz i trust them but i will be playing a lot less when i go through which casinos to play next month on 30th as like i do every month,

They shouldn't offer bonuses if they don't like it when players take them, take for example videoslots(not a huge fan) but they dont offer deposit bonuses rather other incentives so people still play there