Guess Who's Cashout Terms Include a 15X WR On All Deposits

[skiny]

Sun Palace bonus terms.

To withdraw your bonus, winnings, and deposit amount you will need to wager 40 times your deposit plus bonus.

IMPORTANT: Wagers in any form of Blackjack or Video Poker will change your bonus cash out requirements from 40 times to 100 times your deposit plus 100 times the bonus. Wagers in Craps, Caribbean Hold'em and any form of Baccarat, Roulette, Tri Card Poker, "21" Games , Pontoon, Vegas Three Card Rummy or Sic Bo cannot be applied to these wagering requirements.

Special note for customers outside of the US and Canada:

Due to a higher incidence of fraud and bonus abuse, management reserves the right to double the wagering requirements for customers located outside of the US and Canada.

So if you live outside of Canada or the US it's 80X even if all you play is slots. 200X if you play video poker.

Now here's the thing about this "bonus abuse" excuse.

It's really not that difficult for a casino to check your deposit, withdrawal and play history upon submitting a withdrawal. If the casino feels you're abusing a bonus whether that means taking them too often, taking them with different accounts or smacking them around a bit before you start wagering, I'm sure the casino could figure out easily enough who the culprits are and void the withdrawal. Forcing regular players to play 30 thousand hands of video poker or 10 thousand spins on slot games to cash out on a 20 dollar deposit will not stop fraudulent players from trying to steal money from the casino. It's just an excuse to make it nearly impossible for players like you and I to cash out if we decide to use a bonus.

Charging me 85 dollars for a cup of coffee is not going to stop people from trying to steal the napkins.

 

[nisosbar]

1x WR on deposits isn't unreasonable in light of the frauds that go on (once again we all suffer because of the idiots), but anything more is taking the p*ss. That's rogue-worthy practice. Plainly unethical, ridiculous and deceitful IMO.

I completely disagree. Once you impose a 1x or even a .25x WR on non-bonused deposits, you have set a precedent, and from there, it just take off.

These terms are like something out of Monty Python. Fitting that it's based in the UK.

 

[Mavin1]

Evidently it was just a matter of time before this started happening. Obviously they have been studying the practices of credit card companies and seeing how much they are making on interest charges for using a credit card. So the best way for them to mimic this and get near the same result, is charge a player interest on the players money. The 5x to 40x playthrough on your own money is interest penalties. So just like credit card companies being nothing more than legal thieves, some casinos are obviously jumping on the band wagon as well to once again, stick it to the consumer .

Let's see how long it takes them to start charging payment processing time as well.

 

[Mouche12]

That would be great in the best and most professional of worlds but unfortunately I don't think providers do too much policing of their licensees and their T&Cs.

That applies particularly to RTG judging by the regular hassles that come to light on these pages.

It usually has to be a pretty bad - or very public - issue for the software providers to get involved, and they would appear content to simply continue hauling in their royalties and fees rather than indulging in time-consuming patrols of their licensees' T&Cs and/or player complaint portals.

They could, of course, at least watch T&C change watchdog portals like KWblue's and the PABs here to keep a regular finger on the pulse.

That said, there are a few providers who will take action if specific issues are brought directly to their attention.

Gambling IMO should be fully regulated on an international level; USA gambling should be allowed and the legislation to this extent should also cover world-wide supervision of all software operators, casinos, poker rooms and sportsbooks. We are very happy to have CM, but in order to stop the rogues and terms & conditions like this, this would be the best solution.

 

[bernynhel]

the two casinos i know of from the saturn operation is orchid and oneclub. Why aren't these casinos rogued? They are listed on this site as "proceed with caution".

I never heard of either of them but did some checking: Orchid and Oneclub are each listed at CasinoCity.com but no owner is displayed whereby Saturn Bingo does show Saturn Gaming Limited as the owner. I asked CasinoCity why Orchid's and OneClub's owners weren't displayed and could any online casino get a listing there anonymously but only 5 minutes ago so haven't heard back. However, the following are included, ver batim, in all three sites T/Cs so I assume they are more than just loosely affiliated:

Banking
All financial transactions are processed by Saturn Gaming Limited, c/o 2020 Chartered Accountants, 1 St. Andrew's Hill, EC4V5BY London, United Kingdom, owner of this website, and the charge will appear on your statement as SATURNBINGO.COM, LONDON, UK.


IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING DEPOSITS & WITHDRAWALS

Please expect withdrawals to take up to 2 weeks to fully process. It is very important to us that we meet or exceed your expectations. For this reason we need you to understand ahead of time that regulatory changes in the market place and new banking regulations have limited the availability of deposit and withdrawal methods and have increased the time required to process withdrawals.

We value your business and will do everything we can to offer as many deposit and withdrawal options as possible and to keep the time it takes to process withdrawals to a minimum. Please expect withdrawals to take approximately 2 weeks to process.


Also take note that any player that deposits and requests a withdrawal without having wagered AT LEAST 15 times the amount deposited will have their withdrawal declined.

That these terms, ridiculous as they are, are stated so clearly in the T/Cs it would make demoting these sites to rogue status simply for dictating these terms awkward, at best.

 

[bernynhel]

Sun Palace bonus terms.

To withdraw your bonus, winnings, and deposit amount you will need to wager 40 times your deposit plus bonus.

IMPORTANT: Wagers in any form of Blackjack or Video Poker will change your bonus cash out requirements from 40 times to 100 times your deposit plus 100 times the bonus. Wagers in Craps, Caribbean Hold'em and any form of Baccarat, Roulette, Tri Card Poker, "21" Games , Pontoon, Vegas Three Card Rummy or Sic Bo cannot be applied to these wagering requirements.

Special note for customers outside of the US and Canada:

Due to a higher incidence of fraud and bonus abuse, management reserves the right to double the wagering requirements for customers located outside of the US and Canada.

So if you live outside of Canada or the US it's 80X even if all you play is slots. 200X if you play video poker.

Now here's the thing about this "bonus abuse" excuse.

It's really not that difficult for a casino to check your deposit, withdrawal and play history upon submitting a withdrawal. If the casino feels you're abusing a bonus whether that means taking them too often, taking them with different accounts or smacking them around a bit before you start wagering, I'm sure the casino could figure out easily enough who the culprits are and void the withdrawal. Forcing regular players to play 30 thousand hands of video poker or 10 thousand spins on slot games to cash out on a 20 dollar deposit will not stop fraudulent players from trying to steal money from the casino. It's just an excuse to make it nearly impossible for players like you and I to cash out if we decide to use a bonus.

Charging me 85 dollars for a cup of coffee is not going to stop people from trying to steal the napkins.

C'mon! Everybody's already angry over lame bonus WR policies sometime or other! We're talkin': I deposit $20, NO bonus AND I gotta 15x WR plus a 2 week wait NOT for my money, my own MFing $20 bill that I just deposited, but just to get my withdrawal PROCESSED?? I was 19 KINDS OF MAD! I abrubtly shut down Live Chat and played back my balance to zero on 1 or two max bets on the first slot I saw.

Skiny, my man, this thread ain' even in the "casino bonus complaint" section!! We need to get on the same page, round up all Saturn's or SBN's or SBS's or whoever the f they are's casino sites, put em in one list, and then every one of us, all together, take that list, then go to our roof tops, open our windows and shout out as one as loud as we possibly can, "I AM MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOIN' TO TAKE IT ANY MORE!!!" Do ya FEEL me Skiny, my brother from another mother?

 

[same_old]

How can I place like this even stay in business, im mean surely people see they 15x before withdrawal etc, well and truly enough to keep you away so im not sure how they can stay a float.

At the end of the day though its the fraudsters who are doing All of this to us, I can understand from a caisno's poiont of view WHY they do this but jesus is it killing us legitimate players.

if any casino managers read this you guys need to all get together at a place like CAP or the Ecorga meetings you guys do and really discuss this as a whole for the industry because it seems the fraudsters are getting the better of you and its causing these shit T&C's and im sure you guys must be losing some serious dollars becuase of it.

Regards,

Same_old

 

[skiny]

IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING DEPOSITS & WITHDRAWALS

Please expect withdrawals to take up to 2 weeks to fully process. It is very important to us that we meet or exceed your expectations. For this reason we need you to understand ahead of time that regulatory changes in the market place and new banking regulations have limited the availability of deposit and withdrawal methods and have increased the time required to process withdrawals.

It is very important to us that we meet or exceed your expectations. For this reason we need you to understand ahead of time that we won't meet or exceed your expectations.

 

[skiny]

Skiny, my man, this thread ain' even in the "casino bonus complaint" section!! We need to get on the same page, round up all Saturn's or SBN's or SBS's or whoever the f they are's casino sites, put em in one list, and then every one of us, all together, take that list, then go to our roof tops, open our windows and shout out as one as loud as we possibly can, "I AM MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOIN' TO TAKE IT ANY MORE!!!" Do ya FEEL me Skiny, my brother from another mother?

If you want to move the thread that's cool but I'm not getting on the roof. I was up there last week to fix a leaky vent and it's f'n steep.

 

[bernynhel]

If you want to move the thread that's cool but I'm not getting on the roof. I was up there last week to fix a leaky vent and it's f'n steep.

In all fairness I DID provide the "open window" option and besides, I'm WAY to lazy to move a thread!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Bullshit!

Sun Palace bonus terms.

To withdraw your bonus, winnings, and deposit amount you will need to wager 40 times your deposit plus bonus.

IMPORTANT: Wagers in any form of Blackjack or Video Poker will change your bonus cash out requirements from 40 times to 100 times your deposit plus 100 times the bonus. Wagers in Craps, Caribbean Hold'em and any form of Baccarat, Roulette, Tri Card Poker, "21" Games , Pontoon, Vegas Three Card Rummy or Sic Bo cannot be applied to these wagering requirements.

Special note for customers outside of the US and Canada:

Due to a higher incidence of fraud and bonus abuse, management reserves the right to double the wagering requirements for customers located outside of the US and Canada.

What a load of BULLSHIT. So EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY is a hotbed of FRAUDSTERS, but there is NO fraud in America or Canada.
It's hard enough to believe that individual DEVELOPED countries are fraud hotspots, but Sun Palace has branded most of the developed WORLD as a fraud hotspot, yet at the same time would have us believe the North American continent has NO fraud problems worth worrying about.

Worse than bullshit. UIGEA in America makes it VERY EASY for players to defraud a casino. Don't like the outcome? just tell the bank the transactions were gambling related, and you were lured by misleading advertising and information on the merchant website, and you are sorry you were so gullible. The bank will then probably charge back EVERYTHING gambling related, even though casinos may already have PAID OUT on the results of the gambling, because they would have been forced to use alternative payment methods.

US players also use less traceable deposit methods, because all the good ones are blocked because of UIGEA - this makes it harder for casinos to be sure that the money being used is "clean".

GENUINE players, of course, would NOT attempt to defraud casinos, since it would likely put an end to their ability to open casino accounts, and keep the ones they have. This applies to ALL countries though, the fraudster will defraud, the legitimate player will not.

 

[skiny]

What a load of BULLSHIT. So EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY is a hotbed of FRAUDSTERS, but there is NO fraud in America or Canada.

I totally agree. I live in Canada and this statement pissed me off. I know people who live outside of North America. I have family that live outside of North America. The first thing I though of when I read this was "Why does this casino assume all my friends and family overseas are probably less trustworthy than every single person who lives in North America?"

Maybe this casino is a strong supporter of North American immigration and as a bonus, once these people land on Canadian or American soil they can drop their wagering requirements down to a measily umm.... 40... times.

 

[skiny]

In all fairness I DID provide the "open window" option and besides, I'm WAY to lazy to move a thread!

Ok. I shouted out the window. Now my neighbour thinks I want him to burn in hell and he wants his lawnmower back.

 

[bernynhel]

Oh and another thing about Saturn Bingo, the Saturn Group, or SBN Gaming, or whoever, et al, don't bother clicking on the ubsubscribe link in their spam email. Even after sending their CEO, "James Robertson" (Who exists about as much as Betty Crocker - According to linkedin.com his real name is Shaun McCamley and despite having stated that SBN Gaming employs 25 people, linkedin.com lists Shaun as the sole employee) links to this thread demanding that my account be closed and emailing "remove me" demands and also getting the "you are now successfully unsubscribed" messages after trying the "unsubscribe" link, my spam box still gets their junk every day.

What a load of BULLSHIT. So EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY is a hotbed of FRAUDSTERS, but there is NO fraud in America or Canada.

You're in the U.K. and I heard that some Brits actually drink their beer at temperatures above "head-freeze"-sub-arctic-cold or just "cold" or even a little below room temperature. Can you really blame a casino operator of being just a little leery of anyone who would live like that? And, to be fair, they only said they "reserve the right" to treat anyone outside the US or Canada as thieving scumbags.

 

[skiny]

It's a good thing we reserve the right to giggle and not deposit.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Oh and another thing about Saturn Bingo, the Saturn Group, or SBN Gaming, or whoever, et al, don't bother clicking on the ubsubscribe link in their spam email. Even after sending their CEO, "James Robertson" (Who exists about as much as Betty Crocker - According to linkedin.com his real name is Shaun McCamley and despite having stated that SBN Gaming employs 25 people, linkedin.com lists Shaun as the sole employee) links to this thread demanding that my account be closed and emailing "remove me" demands and also getting the "you are now successfully unsubscribed" messages after trying the "unsubscribe" link, my spam box still gets their junk every day.



You're in the U.K. and I heard that some Brits actually drink their beer at temperatures above "head-freeze"-sub-arctic-cold or just "cold" or even a little below room temperature. Can you really blame a casino operator of being just a little leery of anyone who would live like that? And, to be fair, they only said they "reserve the right" to treat anyone outside the US or Canada as thieving scumbags.

We all know that "reserve the right" means a rule is applied EVERY TIME, but it is such a draconian one that the casino doesn't want to frighten away customers.

The bonuses that have 40x, and 80x if you ain't a Yank or a Canuk, are ONLY 35% of deposit anyway. so we have to wager a 35% bonus 80x on slots, knowing RTG slots can be set right down to 91% without us having a right to know the actual setting.

Surely a FRAUDSTER isn't worried about the damn WR anyway, they are committing FRAUD, and probably NOT with their own money. They are after the occasional WIN, and to get "dirty" money in via a deposit method, and out via a DIFFERENT method. They may even decline the bonus, since this would make it easier to withdraw "dirty" money after a certain amount of play to make it look like they are genuinely playing for entertainment.

 

[bernynhel]

We all know that "reserve the right" means a rule is applied EVERY TIME, but it is such a draconian one that the casino doesn't want to frighten away customers.

I didn't know that. Perhaps something as informative as that warrants its own thread rather than have it (or other eye-opening tidbits you may wish to divulge about RTG Casinos in the Main Street Vegas Group) buried and diluted here, a thread about Saturn Bingo...

 

[AussieDave]

the fraudster will defraud, the legitimate player will not.

Unfortunately online casinos suffer the same loses as other businesses that are affected by scammers, fraudsters and thieves.

In other instances such as supermarkets and shoplifters prices go up.

As always it's the legit & honest OP's that end up paying the price.


Cheers
Dave

 

[bernynhel]

How can I place like this even stay in business, im mean surely people see they 15x before withdrawal etc, well and truly enough to keep you away so im not sure how they can stay a float.

I wonder the same but look at The Virtual Group and all their sites. I'm just thinking that either players still aeren't reading the terms or operators are playing fast and loose with how they define and apply the terms. I played a freechip at Vegas Strip (virtual casino) met the WR, cashed out $100 but was disqualified because, after cashing out, I played VP with the left over balance from the freechip that the casino was, according to their terms, going to simply zero out.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I didn't know that. Perhaps something as informative as that warrants its own thread rather than have it (or other eye-opening tidbits you may wish to divulge about RTG Casinos in the Main Street Vegas Group) buried and diluted here, a thread about Saturn Bingo...

It's not EVERY casino, but it's like that other term "Play on xxxxxx and xxxxx does not count towards WR", when they actually mean winnings will be CONFISCATED if there is any play on said games.

With "reserve the right", you have to assume that it is normal practive to ACT upon this "reserved right", whereas in other walks of life, a "reserved right" is usually only acted upon in unusual circumstances.

 

[joyceflorida]

orchid and oneclub casino are definitely part of Saturn

 

[skiny]

I don't know anything about Orchid but One Club doesn't hide it. I get emails from One Club that say Saturn in the received column instead of One Club.