Bonus Complaint Grand Duke casino stole money from me!!!

JoeyBB74

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
Location
London
Attention: Manager of Casinomeister

Grand Duke said that they are taking my winnings because "I hit a big win based on one specific slot machine, in order to significantly increase a bankroll". I played Gold Rally because it was the only one that I could bet 16 per hand, where as every other slot game was a very small amount. I was on live chat about 4 times during my play and note once did they tell me that I had to change games.

They also said "We have good grounds to suspect that you have sought only to exploit a bonus offered by Us in good faith to enhance your entertainment" How crazy is this? Of course playing slot machines is fun and entertaining...isn't that why we all play them?

They also said "on acceptance of a bonus, the minimum wagering requirement is met and funds are subsequently withdrawn".
I played that slot machine for days so I know that I did the wagering and then so much more than required of me. I even asked the guy on live chat if I had done the wagering required of me and he said yes and that I was fine to go ahead and withdrawal some of my winnings.

They have taken the 3000 that I won and the deposit that I put in. This is a disgrace. They should not have a license and be shut down if they are going to steal money from people.

I will be taking this matter further.

Sincerely, Joanne *snip*
 
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KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Unfortunately you are just the latest person to find CasinoMeister AFTER you have been snared by a dodgy casino. :(
Here are just SOME of the recent threads complaining about the same place:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/grand-duke-vs-hit.45823/
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/grand-duke-casino.45684/
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...paying-£7200-bj-winnings-due-to-system.44664/
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/grand-duke-no-pay-and-questionable-practices.44787/

Anyway, first please send the casino representative (if they have one here) a Private Message about your problem.
Reps are listed here: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/?key=staff_members
(I've checked - they DON'T have a rep here - so try e-mailing the casino manager via their website)

After giving them a reasonable amount of time, if they do not put things right to your satisfaction, you can Pitch-A-Bitch.
This is CasinoMeister's FREE service to help players with problems at non-rogue casinos.

Before you start, make sure the casino in question is NOT in the Rogue Pit or on the No Can Do list.
(I've also checked this, and they are NOT on those lists, so you can PAB)

To submit your PAB, click here: Pitch-A-Bitch
Be sure to read ALL the terms for submitting a PAB, including the Frequently Asked Questions here: PAB FAQs

Welcome to the forum! :thumbsup:
KK
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Attention: Manager of Casinomeister

Grand Duke said that they are taking my winnings because "I hit a big win based on one specific slot machine, in order to significantly increase a bankroll". I played Gold Rally because it was the only one that I could bet 16 per hand, where as every other slot game was a very small amount. I was on live chat about 4 times during my play and note once did they tell me that I had to change games.

They also said "We have good grounds to suspect that you have sought only to exploit a bonus offered by Us in good faith to enhance your entertainment" How crazy is this? Of course playing slot machines is fun and entertaining...isn't that why we all play them?

They also said "on acceptance of a bonus, the minimum wagering requirement is met and funds are subsequently withdrawn".
I played that slot machine for days so I know that I did the wagering and then so much more than required of me. I even asked the guy on live chat if I had done the wagering required of me and he said yes and that I was fine to go ahead and withdrawal some of my winnings.

They have taken the 3000 that I won and the deposit that I put in. This is a disgrace. They should not have a license and be shut down if they are going to steal money from people.

I will be taking this matter further.

Sincerely, Joanne *snip*


Grand Duke were under fire for this almost as soon as they launched. As expected, they kept quiet about your play because you were LOSING, and they didn't want you to know then that they would void your winnings in any case. If they didn't like a 16 bet on this game, why did they put this limit on yet reduced the limits on the others.

16 a spin might seem a great deal, but it is often quite normal for a few players to bet at this level, and bonuses have nothing to do with it.

It now seems they have taken a further step, confiscating DEPOSITS when it is merely the "spirit of the bonus" term they are using to void the winnings.

There is a rep from Grand Duke here who tried to defend an earlier confiscation because the player was using a "Blackjack system" to win on random software that reshuffles every hand, a situation in which NO system could ever work, as they all rely on the abilty to "count cards" as the shoe is penetrated.

The rep then tried to change his story when this "system" excuse got demolished here, and even hinted that they were "sorry", and that it was some kind of "misunderstanding". Few here were fooled, and Grand Duke is considered an "avoid at all costs".

I would love to hear their excuse this time, as hitting a big slot win is VERY rare, and is pure chance, no way could any "system" be used to play "abusively" unless the software was hacked in order to place a bet higher than was set for bonus play, clearly something that has been done with the other slots. With this in mind, it would be reasonable for a player to assume the low bets had been set because they had claimed this bonus, and that they could bet up to this limit if they wanted to. If there is nothing else in the terms that would prohibit bets above a certain level, they don't have a case.

Raise the matter with the ASA and Trading Standards, as Grand Duke have full access to media advertising in the UK because they are on a government "whitelist" of allowed licensing jurisdictions, and would be expected to operate within UK consumer protection law.

The government are already worried that offshore casinos are exploiting this rather lax arrangement to screw over UK players, and are thinking of tightening the rules. They need to be aware of how widespread this has become, as the licensing jurisdictions involved often "rubber stamp" the casino's decision, rather than carry out a proper investigation.

Despite the earlier issue, they were able to persuade Bryan to keep them out of the pit, thus players are not being warned that this is an ongoing issue with them. Betfair more or less pulled the same "spirit of the bonus" stunt, and ended up in the pit.

As well as the ASA and Trading Standards, you should PM the Grand Duke rep, and if no reply, follow this up with a formal PAB. You should NOT post further about this issue until these channels have been exhausted, or the casino is not cooperating.

If you decide to use the PAB service, tell the WHOLE truth from the outset, even if it might seem to damage your case. If you miss something out that is later discovered when Max looks into it, it will look like you were trying to hide something.

A good many Playtech casinos behave like this, and some are even WORSE. Even if not in the rogue pit, ALL Playtech casinos not listed here as accredited should be played with caution, and prior research done to see if they are generating complaints of this nature.
 
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SlotMonster

Twitch Streamer - Affiliate
webmeister
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Belarus
Casino Rep won't be able to help IMO. But 3k worth trying. :rolleyes:
 

kavaman

Senior Member
PABnononaccred3
PABnononaccred3
MM
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Location
finland
Filing a complaint with playtech could be an ok:ish idea.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
, you might have tough luck on collecting the win though, they seem to be strugling financially.
 

deucebag

Full Member
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Location
cyberspace
One of Grand Duke's bonus terms is:

In order to be eligible for withdrawal, you must have winnings from multiple games, in which winnings from any single game cannot exceed 50% of the total amount of the withdrawal request.

I think we have a new contender for the worst rogue award.
 

taysh075

Non-Gambler
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Location
New Zealand
One of Grand Duke's bonus terms is:



I think we have a new contender for the worst rogue award.

Oh you are kidding me. What a crap term. These terms are getting more and more ridiculous:mad: I often go to a casino and play my whole deposit on my favourite of the moment. It's hard enough to win without them hedging their bets with these sorts of obscure stupid terms to ensure we lose.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I see, and how is a player expected to CONTROL the amount WON from any individual bet on a SLOT in order to comply with this term. Even if they played multiple games, they would have to WIN from them in order to comply with this term.

If a progressive was hit, this term would guarantee that the casino could confiscate it, as no way could a player engineer their way to bring it's value down to 50% of their total win.

The term they SHOULD have is one controlling PLAY, not the OUTCOME of said play. One such term that is accepted as a fair means to control this is limiting the maximum individual stake to a percentage of any bonus credited. This is something that a player has FULL control over.

Another way to deal with this is to have a term limiting the percentage of total WR that play on any one game can contribute towards. This would mean that once this contribution had been reached, further play on that game would no longer be counting towards WR, and the player would have to play some other games.

If, for example, it was limited to 25%, a player would have to play a minimum of 4 different games in order to meet WR, and play would have to be fairly evenly distributed over these games.

Many of my sessions include a big hit from a single game, and even though I play other games, if they don't also give a big hit I would not be able to comply with such a term if it existed where I play. The terms where I play control the maximum allowed stake in terms of the amount of bonus credited. Even 32Red has this kind of bet limiting term, and it is "casino of the decade", a clear indication that such a term is acceptable even for an accredited casino.

Grand Duke may not like this type of term as it leaves the player in full control of whether or not they breach it, as all they have to do is note the max bet allowed, and make sure they don't go over it. Even if they are lucky enough to hit big, they get to keep it because they won from a bet lower than the maximum allowed.

With most of the limiting terms I have seen a bet of 16 would be well under the maximum limit, which is usually between 20% and 50% of bonus credited.

This term should be classed as rogue as it requires the player to do the impossible, which is to limit the OUTCOME of an individual bet, and this term could just as easily be broken on the MINIMUM bet allowable by the software if a high paying combo hit in a free spin round subject to a multiplier, and even in base play should the jackpot be hit.
 

De Beuker

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Location
Netherlands
Grand duke need to be rogued right now. Disgraceful.

Second that.
Thats the most insane term I've ever seen.:eek:

It gives them the right to confiscate almost every withdrawl, as winnings almost always come from one huge hit, especially on Playtechs high variance slots.

Stay as far away as possible from this outfit, jeez..:rolleyes:
 

same_old

Dormant account
webmeister
PABaccred
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Location
Australia
Well I got my calculator ready to go and add up that I'm not going over the 50% threshold on each game.

You would want to be OK at Maths for this shit I can tell ya!!

Casino's like this one don't stick around to long anyway- who in there right mind would even bother depositing there with terms like that.
 

Przecinek

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Location
Respect-land
As all other posters have said, this terms is crazy and has got nothing to do with bonuses.

The more you win, the more likely it is you'll break 50% max win rule, and get you're winnings confiscated.
Amazing this casino is licenced with such t&c in place.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
@JoeyBB74: Hi, I'm Max. I manage the Pitch-A-Bitch service mentioned earlier. The info KK gave you on this pretty much sums it up. As it happens I have a few other Grand Duke issues I'm dealing with at the moment so your PAB would be welcome and timely. Please do read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ if you're thinking of going this route, and I look forward to seeing your PAB.

One of Grand Duke's bonus terms is:

In order to be eligible for withdrawal, you must have winnings from multiple games, in which winnings from any single game cannot exceed 50% of the total amount of the withdrawal request.

Good catch! :thumbsup:

I took a quick look through their bonus terms, didn't see where this was posted. Do you have a link to this?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Good catch! :thumbsup:

I took a quick look through their bonus terms, didn't see where this was posted. Do you have a link to this?

You looked, didn't find it, yet they expect mere PLAYERS to both find and understand this term, and not break it. It is clearly well "buried", and regardless of the structure, the term is rogue simply because it is so well hidden that even you can't find it when doing what players should always do, read the terms before they play.

Perhaps they have sneaked it into the general terms, and kept it out of sight of players who read only the bonus terms when they claim a bonus.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Irregular Gaming
Your use of any real money bonuses is subject to Our review for irregular playing patterns. To ensure fair gaming and the proper use of bonuses, We consider low margin betting, equal betting, zero risk bets or hedge betting to be irregular gaming when deployed to exploit bonuses. Further examples of irregular playing patterns also include, but are not limited to: (i) placing single or multiple bets of a value of fifty percent or more of the bonus on any single game, individual hand, or round, building a balance and significantly changing play patterns (bet size, game types, bet structures etc) in order to meet the bonus release requirement; (ii) placing large bets which result in a substantial gain followed by a drop in bet size equal to or more than seventy five percent of the previous average bet size until the bonus release requirements have been met (iii) Wagering based on one specific slot machine, in order to significantly increase a bankroll, in relevance to the initial betting amount, and then switching to another game or request a withdrawal. (iv) if We have good grounds to suspect that you have sought only to exploit a bonus offered by Us in good faith to enhance your entertainment (for example, on acceptance of a bonus, the minimum wagering requirement is met and funds are subsequently withdrawn).
The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play" for Bonus Play through Requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any withdrawals where irregular play has occurred to meet Bonus Play through Requirements. In order to be eligible for withdrawal, you must have winnings from multiple games, in which winnings from any single game cannot exceed 50% of the total amount of the withdrawal request.


It's in here, under "Irregular Gaming".

Yes, EXACTLY like this, a "word soup" with no paragraphs, bullet points, etc, and part of a long list of expanadable terms that would require a hell of a lot of patience to get through without getting a headache from the layout.

To make it clearer:-

Your use of any real money bonuses is subject to Our review for irregular playing patterns. To ensure fair gaming and the proper use of bonuses, We consider low margin betting, equal betting, zero risk bets or hedge betting to be irregular gaming when deployed to exploit bonuses.

Further examples of irregular playing patterns also include, but are not limited to:

(i) placing single or multiple bets of a value of fifty percent or more of the bonus on any single game, individual hand, or round, building a balance and significantly changing play patterns (bet size, game types, bet structures etc) in order to meet the bonus release requirement.

(ii) placing large bets which result in a substantial gain followed by a drop in bet size equal to or more than seventy five percent of the previous average bet size until the bonus release requirements have been met.

(iii) Wagering based on one specific slot machine, in order to significantly increase a bankroll, in relevance to the initial betting amount, and then switching to another game or request a withdrawal.

(iv) if We have good grounds to suspect that you have sought only to exploit a bonus offered by Us in good faith to enhance your entertainment (for example, on acceptance of a bonus, the minimum wagering requirement is met and funds are subsequently withdrawn).

The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play" for Bonus Play through Requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any withdrawals where irregular play has occurred to meet Bonus Play through Requirements. In order to be eligible for withdrawal, you must have winnings from multiple games, in which winnings from any single game cannot exceed 50% of the total amount of the withdrawal request.

Sorry Max, your winnings are confiscated, you should have read the terms, they are quite clearly displayed on the website:rolleyes:

DO I = 1, 100000

Print *, "This long enough for you Nifty"

END DO
 
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