Good&Bad Providers when trying to win at slots.

Great Idea Kroffe, Thanks!

Nice easy thread for the players.

No shortage of casinos in my opinion that pay, have a good enough selection and enough methods and response to play there.

No shortage of casinos that spring a surprise SOW or restrict your play somehow when the goings good.

I dont experience the hardships, it seems some do, finding somewhere that fits the bill in those respects anymore.

The only question between casino A and casino B is the RTP now for me.
 
I was thinking: Why is lower RTP good for casinos? Why they make more money from it?

I understand that they double the house edge, but why does it work?
I mean, if all players are in control of their budget and gamble responsibly, doesn't it mean that they will simply deposit the same and play for as long as it lasts? Even if it means they play much less than before?

So, if low RTP works, it must mean that beacause of it players lose control of their play and budget, deposit a lot more and don't play responsibly. That proves low RTP --> Problem Gambling.
 
Just a thought but say there has been a shift, no matter how small, of customers from Videoslots to other casinos.

I wonder how much foresight these casinos have to see that the customers will go back, if everyone offers the low level RTP.

TBH, I have not seen any shifts from VS, quite the opposite, mostly because the absolute majority of players either doesn't know what RTP is or simply doesn't care. They are still one of the best converters and retainers, although they pay abysmally low commissions to affiliates.

So if 100 are leaving, you'll have 200 joining. Doesn't really bother them that much. You can see very clearly the growth in the battles, the number of players keeps increasing.

These are the numbers for Sweden only, expressed in million SEK revenue! They are the only standalone casino (bet365 has sportsbook) in the TOP10, beating some big groups like Bethard, Hero, 888, GiG and Skill-on-Net who have sometimes over 10 brands operating in Sweden.

1589436405164.png
 
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Unibet group, vera&john group, expekt (i think been a while since checked)
Think the come on group offers highest, also been a while since i checked.
Mr green maybe?

Theres no shortage of options to play the highest rtp-versions on the Swedish market atleast, i dont know how it looks on the uk market.

Edit: That said, i do agree with what you are saying.
Everything gets reduced/worse, and somehow they still need to reduce the rtp to be able to stay in business.
I think the insanse amount of casinos is to blame tho.
Theres close to 100 groups with a license on the swedish market, wich probably means its 300-400 casinos since some of them have like 10+ sites under their name.

Nobody needs that many sites to choose from.
And it cant be that horribly hard to make money on the Swedish market since new sites join the Swedish market pretty often.

A purge would be good for both casinos and players.

Novibet offer higher rtp on most I've seen, correct me if I'm wrong though
 
TBH, I have not seen any shifts from VS, quite the opposite, mostly because the absolute majority of players either doesn't know what RTP is or simply doesn't care. They are still one of the best converters and retainers, although they pay abysmally low commissions to affiliates.

So if 100 are leaving, you'll have 200 joining. Doesn't really bother them that much. You can see very clearly the growth in the battles, the number of players keeps increasing.

These are the numbers for Sweden only, expressed in million SEK revenue! They are the only standalone casino (bet365 has sportsbook) in the TOP10, beating some big groups like Bethard, Hero, 888, GiG and Skill-on-Net who have sometimes over 10 brands operating in Sweden.

View attachment 131345

Oh im sure their position in the market has stayed. After all the industry is growing and attracting more people every day. Surprised by Casumo on their drop. Do you know of any reason for that?

I would expect most casinos to be experiencing a rise in numbers through the front of the last few quarters because of industry growth.

Do you really think players dont care Harry? I get that most players dont know but are there that many that really dont care if their casino lowers their payouts?
 
Oh im sure their position in the market has stayed. After all the industry is growing and attracting more people every day. Surprised by Casumo on their drop. Do you know of any reason for that?

I would expect most casinos to be experiencing a rise in numbers through the front of the last few quarters because of industry growth.

Do you really think players dont care Harry? I get that most players dont know but are there that many that really dont care if their casino lowers their payouts?

Casumo - SOW :D They have to do something like that in Sweden too. @Kroffe can maybe confirm.

As for caring about RTP.

Let's say we have 100 major forums like CM worldwide (I don't think there are that many), each with 1,000 active members. That is 100,000 people who are informed. Put another 10 million readers/visitors on top who might be informed.

Total number of casino players worldwide, I would venture to say is over 100 million.
 
Casumo - SOW :D They have to do something like that in Sweden too. @Kroffe can maybe confirm.

As for caring about RTP.

Let's say we have 100 major forums like CM worldwide (I don't think there are that many), each with 1,000 active members. That is 100,000 people who are informed. Put another 10 million readers/visitors on top who might be informed.

Total number of casino players worldwide, I would venture to say is over 100 million.

Why is it do you think that high rollers, the bulk of income for online casinos i think?, be blase towards RTP?. Is it because they've simply got enough cash and, er, simply don't care? - though, surely if you've massed enough money to be rolling on big stakes, you must have an inclination in your business life to seek the best deal...?

Or do you think it's more along the lines of them simply liking the casino, having a decent reward system in place and thinking 'meh' - i get other things from this casino, so I'm not moving.

Love the chance to prove it but there's a bit of me, being a lazy git, that if i had enough cash and was spending it on my hobby (not just casinos), I might not be arsed to shop around for whatever it is, but simply just buy it because it's convenient and in front of me - wonder if that's the attitude of the above.
 
Why is it do you think that high rollers, the bulk of income for online casinos i think?, be blase towards RTP?. Is it because they've simply got enough cash and, er, simply don't care? - though, surely if you've massed enough money to be rolling on big stakes, you must have an inclination in your business life to seek the best deal...?

Or do you think it's more along the lines of them simply liking the casino, having a decent reward system in place and thinking 'meh' - i get other things from this casino, so I'm not moving.

Love the chance to prove it but there's a bit of me, being a lazy git, that if i had enough cash and was spending it on my hobby (not just casinos), I might not be arsed to shop around for whatever it is, but simply just buy it because it's convenient and in front of me - wonder if that's the attitude of the above.

Surprisingly or unsurprisingly, the majority of real VIPs does not play slots or just occasionally.

But I wouldn't think that they are too much bothered with 1% or 2% RTP differences. When they play on high-stakes slot machines in Vegas or the like at 1K or 5K a pop (IIRC, the highest I have seen in Vegas was for 10K/spin), they do so with an 80-85% RTP.

The real VIP realm is very different when it comes to loyalty or rewards and a hotly contested business. 5FS at 10p won't cut it there. I've met quite a few on my FL cruises and a 30K Rolex was not the most expensive some of those players got from online casinos for their birthdays.
 
Surprisingly or unsurprisingly, the majority of real VIPs does not play slots or just occasionally.

But I wouldn't think that they are too much bothered with 1% or 2% RTP differences. When they play on high-stakes slot machines in Vegas or the like at 1K or 5K a pop (IIRC, the highest I have seen in Vegas was for 10K/spin), they do so with an 80-85% RTP.

The real VIP realm is very different when it comes to loyalty or rewards and a hotly contested business. 5FS at 10p won't cut it there. I've met quite a few on my FL cruises and a 30K Rolex was not the most expensive some of those players got from online casinos for their birthdays.

Have it on good authority this is what Videoslots have as a welcome gift for their VIPs

Screenshot 2020-05-14 at 11.29.59.png
 
Logged into Piggy Riches Megaways at William Hill and had a pop message that the help file had been updated.

It had indeed as the RTP is now down at 92.67%, fucking unbelievable it’s difficult enough at 94%.
I fear it’s just the start of every slot’s RTP being reduced as low as they can get them.
 
Just a thought -

If all companies within an industry jointly effect the price of a product for personal gain then it can sometimes fall under market manipulation which is illegal under fair competition rules in the UK.

Malta also has competition act to ensure fair markets for the consumer.

Any legal heads in the forum who would be so kind as to entertain this thought?

Quite happy for a 'dont be stupid fishcake, you really should eat breakfast before posting'.
 
Just a thought -

If all companies within an industry jointly effect the price of a product for personal gain then it can sometimes fall under market manipulation which is illegal under fair competition rules in the UK.

Malta also has competition act to ensure fair markets for the consumer.

Any legal heads in the forum who would be so kind as to entertain this thought?

Quite happy for a 'dont be stupid fishcake, you really should eat breakfast before posting'.

Not a lawyer (chucked it after Uni and did a pivot) but there’s, AFAIK, no casino with a dominant position, nor are there only 3/4 offering the product etc; plus the fact it’s still above what’s permitted, I would doubt it.....if it was a cartel esque position I think you’d need to show that their actions were prohibiting others from entering the market as well.

In fact, maybe the opposite would apply if you said ‘must be 96%’; some smaller potential operators may argue that such a position actually excludes them from entering the arena.

Pass....
 
Just a thought -

If all companies within an industry jointly effect the price of a product for personal gain then it can sometimes fall under market manipulation which is illegal under fair competition rules in the UK.

Malta also has competition act to ensure fair markets for the consumer.

Any legal heads in the forum who would be so kind as to entertain this thought?

Quite happy for a 'dont be stupid fishcake, you really should eat breakfast before posting'.

Dont be stupid fishcake, you really should eat breakfast before posting . :)
 
Not a lawyer (chucked it after Uni and did a pivot) but there’s, AFAIK, no casino with a dominant position, nor are there only 3/4 offering the product etc; plus the fact it’s still above what’s permitted, I would doubt it.....if it was a cartel esque position I think you’d need to show that their actions were prohibiting others from entering the market as well.

In fact, maybe the opposite would apply if you said ‘must be 96%’; some smaller potential operators may argue that such a position actually excludes them from entering the arena.

Pass....

That all sounds logical.

Thanks, im off for breakfast as per Pauls instructions followed by a bike ride with the kids. My boy has finally lost his training wheels (not a pseudonym for all you jokers out there, hes 4 for Christ's sake!).

So Daddy gets to play on his own bike also now, brrrm, brrrm!
 

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