GoldenLounge VS Shmu800t

[GOCC]

So i take it if he is on this "List" as claimed, he has been notified of such and told he cant have any bonuses.

Yes, they say they share info et al, but if the player doesnt know, and he is awarded a bonus, surely he is to expect he is good to go?

 

[kavaman]

Cmon. The guy has only one account at goldenlounge, right, if multiple accounts there were found, then that would be a different case.
He played basically without a bonus (10% that he did not want), and the casino kept increasing the wagering, by adding 100$ bonuses to his account after a cashout, and claiming he had to wager more to cash-in.
If the guy was a fraudster i would think there would be better ways then to play slots without a bonus, don't you agree?
Im taking the players side on this unless he has multiple accounts on goldenlounge, and i hope this gets resolved. I know max and meister are doing a great job, and unless player fraud can be proven better lets hope the player gets paid.

kava

 

[maxd]

No offense K-man but unless you've got insider information on this you're basically pulling your conclusions out of thin air.

As I've said, this has gone back to the casino peeps, they've given me their file on it and it's in the queue for me to deal with. I suggest we let the process run it's course instead of drawing uninformed, arbitrary conclusions.

 

[maxd]

Ok, I've gone through the info given me and there are several deciding factors here. The bottom line is that there is a body of evidence against the player AND the player has tried to blackmail the casino into making weekly payments to him.

The casino's decision was to negate the winnings and boot the player. As far as I can tell this had nothing to do with bonus/no-bonus issues and everything to do with pre-existing conditions regarding the player's identity and activities. I support the casino's decision.

We're done with this issue. The player is welcome to take his case elsewhere.

Further posts by this player attempting to pressure or coerce the casino will not be tolerated.

 

[Pinababy69]

Hey Max, is there any chance you could clarify if the player in question had multiple accounts at Golden Lounge directly? Or had a history of multiple accounts at other casinos across the MG network? If not...that's cool. Just curious. Hope my question is coming through okay...I'm wondering if it's like an industry type blacklist (ie. fraud or whatever), or a GL specific issue? Thanks either way.

 

[maxd]

I don't think it's any surprise that the MG network has a shared database of player data. I don't believe I ever asked or was told whether he had multiple accounts at GL itself.

I did mention early on the 198 accounts business and that seems to have been based on a misunderstanding. When the first case came up the case handler at GL told me that. Since then the people involved have changed and that specific piece of information has morphed a bit. Suffice it to say that that player did not personally have 198 accounts on the MG network.

Multiple accounts at GL or not, it doesn't really matter. There were plenty of other account abuse factors in play and those were what I based my decision on. Plus the blackmail thing, of course.

Due to the nature of the casino's security issues I can't be more specific than that.

 

[kavaman]

No max, i don't have any insider info. I was just pointing out my opinion, which i obviously shouln't have because i dont have all the facts.
It just seemed to ME that the casino was doing dirty tricks by adding further 100$ and therefore making the player wager more and more.
The blackmail thing, well thats another thing and naturally NOT tolerated.

kava

 

[Shmu800t]

[Max says: this player has attempted to blackmail the casino into forced weekly payments. Such activity is abuse of the forums and won't be tolerated.]

Spoiler

response to Max.



First you mentioned it is not about the bonus, then why they sent the email about the large bets in slots as an excuse of the no pay ?

I believe there was not blackmailing, it is part of their trick and lies, they were always like that and probably never change, just like the 198 accounts

Regarding the blackmailing, I will attach here all the emails I have ever sent Goldenlounge in this regard, I have to say I was really really really mad at some periods of this dispute.

The reason I was mad is the lies that were published by the casino starting from the bonus issue thru the 198 accounts which is not true and not even close to the truth.

I thought a 14,000 GBP might be a large sum, and thought if I will be flexible being put into a payment would make it easier for them to change their mind, nothing to do with blackmailing.

My stupidity from the beginning, made me play, gamble, agree to everythig they ask and unfortunately caused everybody to accuse me with bad things I never did, I learned my lesson , no more gambling online hopefully no more at all

Everybody can look at the emails and judge, all I know there are many lies and one truth, the truth is only one and unfortunately the lie won.

Here are the emails

Hi


The facts at the emails are not true, if they were true the story was different.


1. I received a 10% bonus, wagered and cashed in , the further bonuses were credited AFTER I already cleared the bonus and cash in, this info can't be denied , it is in the play check and Microgaming can confirm it, what you mentioned is incorrect.


2. I am not a well known bonuses abuser, this is another false accusation, all of my microgaming accounts are open and in a good status, I also came to play WITHOUT a bonus at your casino and was credited an unwanted 10% , what bonus abuser would play with a 10% bonus?


check your records again, I played with a 10% bonus and reached 7000 GBP and cashed in, after you added all kind of bonuses to make me play more




You were a new casino back then and made mistakes, I accept that but please enough with it


Regards
M




Dear Sirs


I can't take those lies anymore, how much can I take ? Why I have to be so mad about this case such long time passed, you were a new casino and you made mistakes, please correct them, stop telling lies, first you told Max at casinomeister i have 198 while I dont have even 10% of that amount, what is it here that you are doing, this is demonization.


I played with a 10% unwanted bonus and cashin my first cashout of 7000 GBP, this can not be denied, it is in the playtech , you know it ,microgaming know it, I know it, only 10% auto bonus that I never claimed, I trusted your casino, I didnt come to get bonuses but to play and get paid.


Further bonuses were credited AFTER I cashout, after the bonus was already cleared if I can call a 10% bonus.


After that you based on a good trust it was stupid of me but I wagered more for all the bonuses you put in order to reverse my cashouts, I managed to win more and boom no pay, what a surprise.


I AM NOT A BONUS ABUSER stop telling Casinoemister and whole worlds those untrue facts


Regards
M




Dear Sirs

I wish to settle this issue with the casino, I already intervene Casinomeister forum and I want to clarify I am not here to give you the bad publicity, I am still holding my horses and being patient although it has been a long time, if you leave me no choice I am really sorry but this issue will be publish in many online forums.

The details you mentioned are not correct, if they were correct I would agree with the casino

1. I got only 10% , all subsequent bonuses were credited only AFTER I managed to win and cashout

2. I don't have 198 in the microgaming network, I could find 14 welcme emails I might have few more accounts that I cant recall but 198 is not correct

3. I am not a famous bonus abuser, I came to play without a bonus, I am a loyal player in many casino, the 10% that was credited was a bonus I never claimed, It was credited automatically


Check your records again, and you agree with me and please pay my winnings.

Regards
M



Mr. M

Our security and fraud departments have checked your gaming history and
we are sorry to inform you that we have been forced to confiscate your cash-in request.

As per casino’s Bonus Account Terms and Conditions at www.goldenlounge.com/terms.asp#Bonus

Item 12: Observations of playing patterns such as the playing for deliberate minimum risk, equal, zero margin or hedge betting may not be considered as playing in the appropriate spirit for the purposes of meeting bonus wagering requirements. Should the Casino deem that these practices have been utilized for the specific purpose of meeting wagering requirements, the casino reserves the right to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings.

And item 13: Other practices of playing behaviour which may lead to the casino withholding cashins and/or confiscating all winnings include, but are not limited to, placing single bets whereby the wager consists of the majority of the total available balance and the bonus balance contributing to a significant portion of that balance. Should the casino deem that practices such as this have been utilized, the casino reserves the right to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings.

The amount of 400 pounds you deposited on your Golden Lounge account, was refunded to your NETeller account. You will no longer receive any bonuses or free games from Golden Lounge.

From this point all communication with the casino must be done in writing (via email).

Sincerely,


- Show quoted text -


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Golden Host <support@goldenlounge.com>
Date: Nov 14, 2008 6:10 PM
Subject: Golden Lounge Withdrawal Request
To: M246@googlemail.com

Mr. M

Our security and fraud departments have checked your gaming history and
we are sorry to inform you that we have been forced to confiscate your cash-in request.

As per casino’s Bonus Account Terms and Conditions at www.goldenlounge.com/terms.asp#Bonus

Item 12: Observations of playing patterns such as the playing for deliberate minimum risk, equal, zero margin or hedge betting may not be considered as playing in the appropriate spirit for the purposes of meeting bonus wagering requirements. Should the Casino deem that these practices have been utilized for the specific purpose of meeting wagering requirements, the casino reserves the right to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings.

And item 13: Other practices of playing behaviour which may lead to the casino withholding cashins and/or confiscating all winnings include, but are not limited to, placing single bets whereby the wager consists of the majority of the total available balance and the bonus balance contributing to a significant portion of that balance. Should the casino deem that practices such as this have been utilized, the casino reserves the right to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings.

The amount of 400 pounds you deposited on your Golden Lounge account, was refunded to your NETeller account. You will no longer receive any bonuses or free games from Golden Lounge.

From this point all communication with the casino must be done in writing (via email).

Sincerely,

J
Security Manager
Golden Lounge
security@goldenlounge.com
Reply Forward


show details 11/23/08 Reply



Dear Mr.
My name is M . , account name:

I am writing to you regarding the cancellation of my winnings; and following our conversation on the telephone when you didn't accept my argument.

I played at your casino because I like to gamble from time to time, and I thought that your casino looked like it was a good place to play.

After my first deposit I received an honest bonus and I appreciated it. With my second deposit I didn't ask to receive any bonus, I just deposited funds so that I could have fun and try my luck, but you added 20 pounds to my 200. I had good fortune that day and I won a nice amount of money. I then tried to make a withdrawal of my winnings as normal. After a couple of days, you sent me mail that said that you had some problem and you asked me to clear 100 pounds in my bonus account, that had magically appeared, and I did so.

Then, unfairly, you asked me to make another wager of 3000, for another unwanted bonus that you sent me, when you returned my money to the casino.

I did as you asked, without argument and tried to make a withdrawal again.

Now after all this you are trying to say things happened differently, which is causing you not to pay out my winnings.

I consider that this has been a misunderstanding, and that after you check again, I believe you will find that I am not a bonus only player and not a player who doesn't take risks. Therefore I really believe that if you are an honest casino, you will pay the winnings that are owed to me.

I want to be clear with you that I am not prepared to give up on pursuing the winnings that I won honestly. Even if I have to call every person involved in gambling abroad within the online casino business, I will do it.


Best Regards

 

[Jufo]

Having read through this thread I didn't find any reason why the player shouldn't be paid. He didn't have multiple accounts at the casino, didn't abuse bonuses (even if someone argues that "bonus abuse" is a valid excuse to void winnings), he didn't have 198 accounts, adding unwanted bonuses was an obvious shady move by the casino, and the blackmail thing seems to be just casino's exaggeration. After all the casino is trying to get away from paying 12k so why wouldn't they exaggerate a little, like they did with the 198 accounts thing. Unless more information is presented here (up to you Maxd) I think the player should be paid.

 

[maxd]

Having read through this thread I didn't find any reason why the player shouldn't be paid. .... Unless more information is presented here (up to you Maxd) I think the player should be paid.

No offense, but that's not for you to decide. As I've clearly stated I've been given information from casino that convinces me that their decision was reasonable. This is the second time in the past few months that I've been through this issue, the most recent at the special request of the OP who promised to abide by my decision this second time around.

I remind you that the PAB process is not open for public scrutiny for many reasons, casino security being one of them. I can't and won't disclose that internal information.

If you or the OP or whomever wish to continue debating this you're welcome to find somewhere else to do so. As I've said, we're done here. End of story. Just to make that perfectly clear I'm now closing this thread.

 

[Casinomeister]

I'm in the process of reviewing this and Max is right - it's a bogus PAB.

Hey Max, is there any chance you could clarify if the player in question had multiple accounts at Golden Lounge directly? Or had a history of multiple accounts at other casinos across the MG network? If not...that's cool. Just curious. Hope my question is coming through okay...I'm wondering if it's like an industry type blacklist (ie. fraud or whatever), or a GL specific issue? Thanks either way.

The player is connected to a fraud ring of several players who are associated to 198 accounts across the board. It's not GL specific.

Having read through this thread I didn't find any reason why the player shouldn't be paid. He didn't have multiple accounts at the casino, didn't abuse bonuses (even if someone argues that "bonus abuse" is a valid excuse to void winnings), he didn't have 198 accounts, adding unwanted bonuses was an obvious shady move by the casino, and the blackmail thing seems to be just casino's exaggeration. After all the casino is trying to get away from paying 12k so why wouldn't they exaggerate a little, like they did with the 198 accounts thing. Unless more information is presented here (up to you Maxd) I think the player should be paid.

This is the problem when you as a member are not given 100% of the information that we receive. You will tend to side with the disgruntled player because he is able to provide you with anything that he wishes to provide. Our hands are tied - we can only tell you so much.

It's up to you to decide who do you trust more. Trust this player who has no history at Casinomeister except for this complaint and has nothing to lose whatsoever. Or trust Max and me who do our damnedest to come to a fair conclusion? That's your choice.

The PAB service is severily abused by fraudulent claims. Several years ago it was pretty simple. Most of the complaints were about slow pays or no pays from half-assed casinos. Player fraud was rare. But player fraud has virtually exploded big time, and the PAB service is a magnet to these people. They have nothing to lose but the time it takes to bang off some emails.

I could snap my fingers and shut down the PAB service today - but I won't because there are some good players out there who need a place to voice their issues. The fraudulant PABs are just something we have to deal with. That's just the way it is.