Glitch in Summertime?

LRDell

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Location
East Coast, USA
Anyone notice a huge number of times that two plums have been coming up on the first two reels of Summertime? I have been playing at Villento lately and it seemed like almost 1 in 3 spins, there would be two plums on the first two reels. Rarely three to pay, though. Don't know if it is specific to this casino or an overall glitch. After I noticed it I really started paying attention and didn't notice this pattern with any other fruit or other character, just plums.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
Anyone notice a huge number of times that two plums have been coming up on the first two reels of Summertime? I have been playing at Villento lately and it seemed like almost 1 in 3 spins, there would be two plums on the first two reels. Rarely three to pay, though. Don't know if it is specific to this casino or an overall glitch. After I noticed it I really started paying attention and didn't notice this pattern with any other fruit or other character, just plums.



Interesting, thanks I will have to watch for that.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Plum Pudding

Either there are enough plums of the first two reels to make a pudding, OR, the "slots" are not what they seem - reels halting at random, but a background Keno game with a slot display as per UK Section 16 (gambling act) "slot" games.

What is needed is a series of, say, at least 1000 spins counting the appearance of plums, along with a reel band for reels one and two. This can be used to determine the number times plums should appear, and then it can be checked against the number of times they do.

The reels could be programmed into Zoozie's simulator, as Summertime is a Thunderstruck clone more or less, and the program adapted to count plums. This could allow a simulation of millions of spins.

One of these days, some bright spark here will find a way of using interactive screen capture to analyse hundreds of slot spins rather than the laborious process of spinning, and in this case, manually noting plum positions on each spin.
 

Zoozie

Ueber Meister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Location
Denmark
Yes. As vinylweatherman says we allready know the reel from Thunderstruck clones. (same order of symbols on each reel, just different graphics)

Just download the simulation and load Thunderstruck and then you can see how many times the symbol appear on each reel. Use the paytable for the 'plum' to see what the matching thunderstruck symbol is.

For MG slot every reel position are equally likely (for the 5-reel slots! not the 3-reel slots of course).

Zoozie
 

cheekymonkey

On a Break
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Location
..
If the plums are the same as the TS 9 symbol, it all makes perfect sense to me!

How many times do you hit a pair of 9's ???

Loadzzzzz....:D
 

turkey_creek

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Location
Florida
This thread very interesting to me as I am both a Villento & Summertime player.Haven't noticed the plum bit before, but will sure be watching now.

I am going to put casino on practice mode, and run a lot of spins on Summertime.

Suggest others do the same, and may a concensus will show up.
 

Slotster!

I predict a riot.
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Location
Location, Location!
Oh yeah, probably Slotster.

The 10 symbol then.

Can't believe you ain't spinning though - good going. :thumbsup:

It's not been an enforced absence or anything, just literally not had time - and when I have been playing on and off it's been Wagerworks. Had a brief spell at 32RED last night, but nowhere near back to the 'good ol' days' just yet...
 

trips to win

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Location
upstate NY
My results Summertime

playing in free mode @ Golden Tiger. Bet size was $4.50 playing all lines.
Started with $1,000.00.

1st 100 spins- Plums on first 2 lines 33X - no feature - highest single win
was $27 - lost $231.

2nd 100 spins- Plums on first 2 lines 29X - Hit feature twice - Payouts were
$111.00 (with plums 7X on first 2 lines) and $229.50 (plums 2X on first 2 lines) - Highest single hit was $100.00 - $310.00 ahead.

3rd 100 spins- Plums on first 2 lines X 40 - Hit feature once for $157.50 -
(plums on first 2 lines 8 TIMES out of 15 free spins! WOW) - highest single hit $100.00 - $53.00 ahead.

4th 100 spins- Plums on first 2 lines 28X- Feature 1X for $223.50 - (plums
on first 2 lines 6X) - single highest hit $20 measley dollars!!! - $1.50
ahead.

5th 100 spins- Plums on first 2 lines 34X- No feature- Highest hit $20 a few times- - down $238.00.

Well, I lost $238.00 after 500 spins. I thought the payouts were measley and infrequent. Most wins were less than original bet of $4.50. I,too, think that 2 plums coming on first 2 lines to be excessive (isn't that about 1/3 of all spins?). Especially aggravating were the 2 plums during the free spins. I thought the game was pretty tight but maybe it would be a good one for grinding down WR?

It was interesting and I hope this helps. :)
 

turkey_creek

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Location
Florida
WOW!!

Great report, Trips.

I only had time to do a very short check, and the 2 plums showed in the first 2 columns 25x/50 spins. 50%.

casino Villento.

Fun game, some good hits, but, be sure to change games when you are ahead. :cheers:
 

LRDell

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Location
East Coast, USA
Same phenomenon at other casinos

I have been paying attention to my play at other casinos on Summertime and have been noticing the same pattern. So if it is a glitch it is on the Microgaming side, and not the specific casino. It sure does knock out the possibility of other characters (potentially higher paying), which already come up less frequently, to hit.

50% is absolutely rediculous. That may be isolated, but it seems that most of us are running in the 33% range. If only the same thing was happening with cherries, since they pay off on two reels!
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Plum

I have been paying attention to my play at other casinos on Summertime and have been noticing the same pattern. So if it is a glitch it is on the Microgaming side, and not the specific casino. It sure does knock out the possibility of other characters (potentially higher paying), which already come up less frequently, to hit.

50% is absolutely rediculous. That may be isolated, but it seems that most of us are running in the 33% range. If only the same thing was happening with cherries, since they pay off on two reels!

Time for a plum count then, if MG are not "cheating", then there should be significantly more plums than other symbols on the two reels, such that the probability of two plums turning up matches the experience.
 

tim5ny

Non-Gambler
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Sometimes the reels are "weighted" so to speak... so that the lesser symbols are more likely to appear more often, and the higher paying symbols are more obscure. I don't believe this is cheating, but rather a way of setting the payback odds on a reel machine.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Cheat

Sometimes the reels are "weighted" so to speak... so that the lesser symbols are more likely to appear more often, and the higher paying symbols are more obscure. I don't believe this is cheating, but rather a way of setting the payback odds on a reel machine.

Weighting is applied to the 3 reel slots, however it should not be happening on a video slot as these operate by having very large reel bands. Indeed, when Zoozie came up with an analysis program for Thunderstruck, it turned out that reels 4 and 5 were longer than the first three reels, hence any weighting is done by clever symbol allignment, and padding reels with low paying symbols. Zoozie simulated the Thunderstruck reels for a large numner of unweighted spins, and came out with a return of 95%, which is in line with expectations.
It would be "cheating" if MG fundamentally changed the way the slots worked such that the return could be "tweaked" by weighting, something MG go to considerable lengths to deny, and something that is accepted as possible for RTG slots that can have their returns altered by the operators (while they don't like to admit it, this is stated as fact on the Wizard of Odds site, and he did act as a consultant to RTG in the past, and should know)
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
Do MicroGaming have equal dispersal of symbols on reels 1 thru 5? I haven't charted but my gut, and reel memory, tell me different. Elementals, for example, seems to be in the 2/1 range [no, i don't pay more attention when the sounds happen :)
Of course it makes sense that if there are more symbols or virtual stops on a 3rd 4th or 5th reel the symbol will appear less often.
I do believe MG when they assert that reel 1 does not influence reel 3/4/5
The number of 'virtual stops' on a reel, in my understanding, is the ONLY relationship between the program and the RNG in a fair slot game.
I could have this all wrong, but I've been able to sleep nights since I came to this conclusion. I don't mind the sugar plums dancing in my head all night:eek2: it's better than counting sheep. please clarify if I am all wet here. thx
 

Zoozie

Ueber Meister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Location
Denmark
Sometimes the reels are "weighted" so to speak... so

Weighting is applied to the 3 reel slots, however it should not be happening on a video slot as these operate by having very large reel bands.

As Vinylweatherman says there is no weighting for MG 5-reel slots.
And it is not hard to prove statistically. The reels normally have from 30 to 40 symbols each. And you can simply just write down each spin and see if each position shows the expected number of times.

For instance if there is 1 scatter on a reel with 30 symbols, then the scatter
on that reel will visible on that reel excactly 1/10 of the times(3 symbols visible). And I have checked this statistically and it is indeed true. And I believe there is no doubt about amoung regular MG players that scatters indeed show up according to this. The reason I took the scatter symbol as
an example is because most reel only have 1 scatter symbol. You can do the same with any symbol, but have to take into account how many times it is on that reel.

But interestingly (for me at least) I am not sure this is true for RTG slots, since then I can not explain how they can change payout% (unless they also change the reels). But for most other software providers this is the way
5-reel slots work and they were created precisely to address this. Working this way by design you could say.

Zoozie
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Do MicroGaming have equal dispersal of symbols on reels 1 thru 5? I haven't charted but my gut, and reel memory, tell me different. Elementals, for example, seems to be in the 2/1 range [no, i don't pay more attention when the sounds happen :)
Of course it makes sense that if there are more symbols or virtual stops on a 3rd 4th or 5th reel the symbol will appear less often.
I do believe MG when they assert that reel 1 does not influence reel 3/4/5
The number of 'virtual stops' on a reel, in my understanding, is the ONLY relationship between the program and the RNG in a fair slot game.
I could have this all wrong, but I've been able to sleep nights since I came to this conclusion. I don't mind the sugar plums dancing in my head all night:eek2: it's better than counting sheep. please clarify if I am all wet here. thx
You might find this post (and the rest of the thread) interesting...

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/probabilities.10822/?highlight=probabilities
 

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