Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000

[casperfix]

I have waited a long, long time and tried many, many channels to get
paid what I rightfully won.

Giant Vegas & Royal Dice are dishonest and deceptive; they deny their
own terms & conditions. Between the two casinos they have confiscated
more than $7000 of my winnings!

When I played, the terms stated that Three Card Poker counted towards
the completion of the wagering requirements. The terms also stated
that roulette could be played but that it would not count toward the
wagering requirements. NOWHERE did the terms say that roulette could not
be played!

The casinos sent me an email AFTER I made my deposits, indicating that
if I wished to play any exluded game I should notify them.

I ask you, the betting public, after you deposit at an online casino
what would you do next? Check your email for additional terms &
conditions or play your money? The answer is obvious. Giant Vegas and Royal
Dice are trying to pull a fast one.

As I said I have tried many avenues for help (the playtech dispute team
[what a joke!], Bryan Bailey at Casinomeister.com, and more) but
nothing has changed. And it seems these two casinos are continuing
business as usual, and their affiliates continue to work as intensively
as ever with these casinos as well...

Here are some emails I got from them, I saved also a screesnhot supporting my claim that it was not mentioned that you may not play roulette at all



Dear xxx



Please note that we have terms and conditions in place, like any casino to prevent unfair gaming. Upon your purchase and receipt of bonus you were sent an email that outlined the terms and conditions of this first deposit bonus. These terms and conditions are also outlined on our website for the first deposit bonus. Furthermore, in the email you received it states that should you wish to play an excluded game you should contact support in order to remove the bonus before you commence play.



We are aware that you met the wagering requirement playing 3 card poker after you played roulette. However, we cannot overlook the fact you made your winnings playing roulette with your deposit + bonus before moving onto an accepted game. This has been deemed suspicious play as it was conducted at both casinos in exactly the same manner.



I understand your frustration; however the casino is bound by these terms and conditions. We have decided to return your initial deposits as it appears you misunderstood the terms of the bonus and terms of use of this casino and it would be unfair of us to penalise you for such a mistake. Please accept this as a gesture of goodwill.



Kind Regards

Cleo

 

[hbears341]

This is a bunch of crap, but at least you got your deposits back.

 

[mitch]

Ah the old 'Deposit, get your sticky bonus then bang it all on one number on roulette' routine.

Anyone doing this is no mug at internet casinos and should know enough to make absolutely sure that the casino in question will allow this play before proceeding.

Such gross and obvious play gets little sympathy from me as it is this sort of thing that has caused casinos to reduce their bonuses and wrap them up in absolutely ridiculous conditions to the detriment of ordinary punters and sensible advantage players alike.

Mitch

 

[silcnlayc]

Such gross and obvious play gets little sympathy from me as it is this sort of thing that has caused casinos to reduce their bonuses and wrap them up in absolutely ridiculous conditions to the detriment of ordinary punters and sensible advantage players alike.

Ditto!

 

[chuchu59]

Casperfix,

Can you show us the screenshot that supports your claim. It should, supposedly, be the Terms and Conditions relating to first-deposit bonuses at the casinos' websites.

 

[casperfix]

Hi

Here we are!

 

[chuchu59]

Casperfix,

What you have to prove is that these Ts and Cs were in force when you started playing because I note that in their website it states explicitly that you cannot play roulette until you have met the WRs. Incidentally, why were the Playtech dispute Team unable to help? What reason did they give you for siding with the casino? Furthermore, did you PM the casino rep at this forum?

 

[winbig]

What dates were these deposits made?

Giant Vegas terms page was changed on July 11.

Royal Dice terms page was changed on August 1.

Gotta love firefox....right click, choose "page info" Too bad it doesn't work on dynamic pages such as .php, etc...


Hopefully you only chopped the screenshots down to post them here. For something like this, you really want to include the full screen that will show the system date & time on your computer.

Either way, it makes you wonder why casinos won't put the date&time on the terms page of when they changed. What would it be hurting unless they're out to tell people they don't want to pay "Oh, we're sorry, we changed the terms"? It would only take a couple seconds to plug the date and time in there.

 

[casperfix]

The dates are right

The winnings are right

The casino is not right ? Why dont you understand a simple thing

GIANTVEGAS AND ROYAL DICE DOES NOT WANT TO PAY WITH NO REASON, JUST BECAUSE THEY LOST TOO MUCH

I WON TOO MUCH, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST AND NOT THE LAST TIME A BAD CASINO IS NOT PAYING

ALL I WANT IS THEM TO BE BLACKLISTED THEN THEY PAY ME.

 

[winbig]

The dates are right

The winnings are right

The casino is not right ? Why dont you understand a simple thing

Like you're going to get any help around here with that attitude. Consider this my last post in this thread, and I'm sure others may feel the same way.

edit:We simply asked if you could prove to the casino when those SS's were taken. If you can't prove that, then you have no case.

GIANTVEGAS AND ROYAL DICE DOES NOT WANT TO PAY WITH NO REASON, JUST BECAUSE THEY LOST TOO MUCH

I WON TOO MUCH, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST AND NOT THE LAST TIME A BAD CASINO IS NOT PAYING

I'm sure $7k is not "too much". The terms are in question here. Nothing more, nothing less.

Do you have a screenshot that shows the DATE AND TIME it was taken? If not, too bad. It's your word against theirs, and considering the fact that most all casinos will NOT allow Roulette play to clear a bonus, you're probably SOL.

ALL I WANT IS THEM TO BE BLACKLISTED THEN THEY PAY ME.

Does the world only revolve around you?

Good luck.

PS: I was trying to give you some advice in case this ever happened again where you needed to take a screenshot of the T&C's. XP by default shows the date and time in the lower right hand corner of your taskbar. Just leave the SS untouched and you would be fine.

PPS: Have you bothered to PM the rep on board here?

 

[silcnlayc]

It was a cut and paste job for the T&C'c. First line was cutoff, 4th line ditto....intersting the whole section wasn't copied without cutting and pasting....as many others have done.

Do you have a screenshot that shows the DATE AND TIME it was taken? If not, too bad.

I think the reason for the cut and paste job is he can't prove his claims I believe.

 

[casperfix]

I am sorry, I forgot that I had to cut the screenshots because of the fact that there is a limit to the attachment I can attach anyway here it is:

As I said the dates are right.

 

[Casinomeister]

...
GIANTVEGAS AND ROYAL DICE DOES NOT WANT TO PAY WITH NO REASON, JUST BECAUSE THEY LOST TOO MUCH.

Don't think that's quite accurate. You should not have played roulette to begin with. It was posted in their terms and conditions, and they notified you by email as well.

These terms and conditions are also outlined on our website for the first deposit bonus. Furthermore, in the email you received it states that should you wish to play an excluded game you should contact support in order to remove the bonus before you commence play.

We are aware that you met the wagering requirement playing 3 card poker after you played roulette. However, we cannot overlook the fact you made your winnings playing roulette with your deposit + bonus before moving onto an accepted game. This has been deemed suspicious play as it was conducted at both casinos in exactly the same manner.

So, what's this? I don't get it. You sign up at a casino, you read where is says roulette doesn't count towards WR, but you play it anyway - at not one but two casinos??

Honestly, if I - or any normal player sees that a certain game is not counted towards WR - these games are to be avoided. Or am I missing something here?

You were to contact the casino ahead of time before playing roulette. Did you do this?

...ALL I WANT IS THEM TO BE BLACKLISTED THEN THEY PAY ME.

Blackmailing casinos by making postings isn't the way to go, especially if you are trying to clear up a misunderstanding or whatever.

 

[casperfix]

Casinomeister, first of all it was not mentioned in their terms and I attached the full terms and condition.

If it was so obvious from the terms why did they have to send the email why did they mention the email, why did they concentrate on that ?

The email was sent right after I deposited , I don't suppose to read emails after I deposit. I suppose to read the terms at the website and then play.

Second, there is a big difference between , does not count towards wagering which means feel free to play it for your own fun than the term that you can not play it at all.

Even the casino agree to that difference and this is why they sent the email, although it is not relevant.

I will give examples to clarify myself:

If you look at Casino del rio terms you will find this term:

Bets placed on all versions of Baccarat, all versions of Roulette, all versions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, all versions of Blackjack, Blackjack Switch, Blackjack Surrender, Casino War, Pontoon and Craps will not be counted toward wagering requirements. We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered on the above mentioned games.


This means you can't play the games at all but from the first statement that the games dont count towards wagering you may understand that you feel free to play them for the fun.

When a casino state that a certain game does not count towards wagering, he does that because you may bet a non risk bet on those games like roulette, craps... but if you play them not for the wagering have a nice day.

There is a big difference between the two

 

[casperfix]

also, you can see that now Giantvegas/Royaldice has the additional words at their terms:

If you do place a bet on a restricted or excluded game before you will have met your wagering requirements, then any winnings from that excluded or restricted game will be immediately null and void

This term was not there when I played.

I am not the only one who play games which was mentioned they are not for the wagering.

What is wrong with that ??

Think about it, if you get an offer that need to be wagered in Slots, but u like to play craps, you play some craps risking your funds and then you got to play some slots and cashout, what is wrong with that ???

Casinomeister, you can ask other members that you know and trust, if there is a difference between those terms and I am sure they tell you that there is a big difference.

 

[casperfix]

The email they sent me right after I deposited you can compare it to the Sunny group situation.

They offer the bonus and the terms at the website and after you deposit they send you an email, this is a joke, and then not to pay.

 

[chuchu59]

Casinomeister, first of all it was not mentioned in their terms and I attached the full terms and condition.

If it was so obvious from the terms why did they have to send the email why did they mention the email, why did they concentrate on that ?

The email was sent right after I deposited , I don't suppose to read emails after I deposit. I suppose to read the terms at the website and then play.

Second, there is a big difference between , does not count towards wagering which means feel free to play it for your own fun than the term that you can not play it at all.

Even the casino agree to that difference and this is why they sent the email, although it is not relevant.

I will give examples to clarify myself:

If you look at Casino del rio terms you will find this term:

Bets placed on all versions of Baccarat, all versions of Roulette, all versions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, all versions of Blackjack, Blackjack Switch, Blackjack Surrender, Casino War, Pontoon and Craps will not be counted toward wagering requirements. We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the players original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered on the above mentioned games.


This means you can't play the games at all but from the first statement that the games dont count towards wagering you may understand that you feel free to play them for the fun.

When a casino state that a certain game does not count towards wagering, he does that because you may bet a non risk bet on those games like roulette, craps... but if you play them not for the wagering have a nice day.

There is a big difference between the two

Most of us here know the difference as we have seen this argued umpteen times before. However, what you need to do now is to Prove that the Terms and Conditions were amended after you initiated a withdrawal or at least after you started playing. The e-mail they sent to you might be for the purpose of reinforcing the Terms and Conditions they already have so arguing on why they did it isnt going to help much.

 

[casperfix]

chuchu59, you say most of us understand while the casinomeister doubt that difference.

Second I cashed in on the 18 Jun 2005 and the screenshot is from the 21 of June, they changed the terms couple of month later.

Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 03:26:33 -0400
From: "Royal Dice Casino" <support@royaldice.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Thank you for your withdrawal!

Dear xxxxxx,

Thank you for choosing to play at RoyalDice!

We have received your withdrawal request for the total amount of
$2,328.00, together with your preferred payment method of money NETeller.

Your transaction request code is: 334271NT.

Please be advised that all withdrawal requests are processed 4 business
days following the request date, as per our Withdrawal Policy, unless
stated otherwise according to your VIP level. Your withdrawal request
will be displayed in the 'Pending Withdrawals' section under the casino's
Cashier section until the day it is processed.

PLEASE NOTE: All withdrawals will be first credited to your FIREPAY
cards (if you use this payment method) up to the total original amount
that was deposited per card. The balance will then be sent to you via your
choice of Neteller. Please also note that we can no longer issue
credits against previous MasterCard and Visa deposits.

If you wish to cancel your withdrawal request or have any questions,
please do not hesitate to contact Royal Dice Casino Support team.
They are available 24*7 at:

Email: support@royaldice.com

Toll Free (U.S. only)
Phone: 1-866-609-0298
Fax: 1-866-609-0293

International
Phone: 1-268-481-2303
Fax: 1-268-481-2329

 

[chuchu59]

chuchu59, you say most of us understand while the casinomeister doubt that difference.

Second I cashed in on the 18 Jun 2005 and the screenshot is from the 21 of June, they changed the terms couple of month later.

Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 03:26:33 -0400
From: "Royal Dice Casino" <support@royaldice.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Thank you for your withdrawal!

Dear xxxxxx,

Thank you for choosing to play at RoyalDice!

We have received your withdrawal request for the total amount of
$2,328.00, together with your preferred payment method of money NETeller.

Your transaction request code is: 334271NT.

Please be advised that all withdrawal requests are processed 4 business
days following the request date, as per our Withdrawal Policy, unless
stated otherwise according to your VIP level. Your withdrawal request
will be displayed in the 'Pending Withdrawals' section under the casino's
Cashier section until the day it is processed.

PLEASE NOTE: All withdrawals will be first credited to your FIREPAY
cards (if you use this payment method) up to the total original amount
that was deposited per card. The balance will then be sent to you via your
choice of Neteller. Please also note that we can no longer issue
credits against previous MasterCard and Visa deposits.

If you wish to cancel your withdrawal request or have any questions,
please do not hesitate to contact Royal Dice Casino Support team.
They are available 24*7 at:

Email: support@royaldice.com

Toll Free (U.S. only)
Phone: 1-866-609-0298
Fax: 1-866-609-0293

International
Phone: 1-268-481-2303
Fax: 1-268-481-2329

Of course Bryan knows the difference. He is just putting it nicely by asking why you still play roulette at both casinos knowing well they dont count towards WRs. There is a suspicion among some of us that you doubled your bankroll through taking the bonus and then betting big for a king-sized win although there are doubts on whether this is allowed. If you can prove that the terms were amended after you started playing you may have a case. From your screenshots, this cannot be proved though.

Have you PMed the rep? Invite him to counter your claim here by asking him when the Ts and Cs were amended. Other than that, there just isnt much that can be done.

 

[thelawnet]

Don't think that's quite accurate. You should not have played roulette to begin with. It was posted in their terms and conditions, and they notified you by email as well.

If you look at the screenshots for the terms when he played, the term that is now 'term 5' was not there.

That term says 'if you play an excluded game, first get the bonus removed from your acount'

According to his screen shots, that term was not there then. It is now. So the terms now are different from then. Given that it now says you have to get the bonus removed before playing excluded ames, and did not then, the obvious inference is that it is not allowed now, but was thn, otherwise why would they add it?

The email sent after the player signed up is too late - this is a signup bonus, advertised on a website, not an email offer. Most players will read the site, signup, and pla y straight away. You aren't going to go away and check your emails.

Clearly he tried to beat their bonuses in an unsubtle manner, but he didn't break their rules as they were then, as shown by the fact that the rules have since changed.

 

[Macgyver]

Also, your screenshot isn't very conclusive of the time and date when you took it.

The calendar feature in Windows is very easy to manipulate. I'm not saying you falsified the screenshot, I'm just playing devil's advocate and showing you how a claim that you did falsify it might be made.

Does the below screenshot mean that I could go to Black Widow (not that I'd even play there) and say that this was their T&C on Christmas Day 2006? You'll also notice I hovered the mouse over the toolbar to show the correct date.

 

[casperfix]

I don't understand. I showed a screenshot from the 21 of June and I played at the 17 of june, so now the question is if this screenshot is faked or not.

Well, please tell me, I have file with me, how am I going to show that this is a real one.

Should I send it to someones email, please PM your email and I will send the file for you to judge.

Again, if I show a screenshot two days after I played then it means I played by those rules and if they change it after it is not relelvant

 

[Macgyver]

I don't understand. I showed a screenshot from the 21 of June and I played at the 17 of june, so now the question is if this screenshot is faked or not.

I'm not questioning your screenshot or if it's faked; I'm merely showing you a possible misconception of it.

Having played exclusively with bonuses for over 3 years now, I agree with Bryan in the spirit of playing disallowed games. Yes, a casino's T&C may not explicitly state that playing a disallowed game will void any winnings.

However, why would you play a game that would give the casino even the smallest opportunity to void your winnings?

By playing roulette, you were splitting hairs; by doing that, you run the risk of the casino falling on the side of that hair that isn't in your favor.

 

[Casinomeister]

If you look at the screenshots for the terms when he played, the term that is now 'term 5' was not there.

That term says 'if you play an excluded game, first get the bonus removed from your acount'.

The heck with the screenshots - or maybe I'm missing something, casperfix states from the beginning he played games that were not to be played - period.

And then Casperfix continues with an example from a similar casino:

Bets placed on all versions of Baccarat, all versions of Roulette, all versions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, all versions of Blackjack, Blackjack Switch, Blackjack Surrender, Casino War, Pontoon and Craps will not be counted toward wagering requirements. We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the players original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered on the above mentioned games.

Casperfix admits these terms were there when he signed up:

When I played, the terms stated that Three Card Poker counted towards
the completion of the wagering requirements. The terms also stated
that roulette could be played but that it would not count toward the
wagering requirements. NOWHERE did the terms say that roulette could not be played!

The casinos sent me an email AFTER I made my deposits, indicating that
if I wished to play any exluded game I should notify them.

Their email:

Dear xxx

Please note that we have terms and conditions in place, like any casino to prevent unfair gaming. Upon your purchase and receipt of bonus you were sent an email that outlined the terms and conditions of this first deposit bonus. These terms and conditions are also outlined on our website for the first deposit bonus. Furthermore, in the email you received it states that should you wish to play an excluded game you should contact support in order to remove the bonus before you commence play.

We are aware that you met the wagering requirement playing 3 card poker after you played roulette. However, we cannot overlook the fact you made your winnings playing roulette with your deposit + bonus before moving onto an accepted game. This has been deemed suspicious play as it was conducted at both casinos in exactly the same manner.

I understand your frustration; however the casino is bound by these terms and conditions. We have decided to return your initial deposits as it appears you misunderstood the terms of the bonus and terms of use of this casino and it would be unfair of us to penalise you for such a mistake. Please accept this as a gesture of goodwill.

Kind Regards

Cleo

So what is the issue? What are you trying to claim should be in their terms and conditions? That they should have explicitly stated that you should have emailed the casino before you played roulette?

How many hairs are you trying to split here?

If you wanted to play roulette for fun, perhaps you should have switched to the "Play for Fun" mode

Common sense prevails. If the terms and conditions state "does not count towards wagering requirements" don't play those games.

 

[casperfix]

No NO, there is a misunderstanding.

The term I gave as an example is a new term and was not there when I played


I gave it as an exmaple as what should be written when you want to say that this game is not allowed to be played at all. This is all the issue all about, that this term was missing.

You can see the full screenshot of all the pages and you can see that this sentence is missing.

There is no catch and I am not trying to mislead or lie.

I played before the screenshot was taken , the screenshot is real and the casino will approve it if you ask them, this is their terms at the time I played.

It is very simple to understand, when you say the game does not count towards the wagering it means ONLY ONE THING THAT IF YOU PLAY THEM IT WONT COUNT TOWARDS THE WAGERING, it does not mean that you can not play them at all.

It is so simple, if you don't believe me or the screenshot then ask the casino, is this screenshot is your real terms at that time.

If the casino will deny their own term I will intervene special measures to find out the lie but first lets ask them, are my screenshots faked ?


The answer is no, I played by the rules please pay.

I wagered the full amount required at Tri card poker, I risked my funds, I played Roulette in addition to the Tri card which means I gave them even extra in wagering.

You can see my game log, I came to risk my funds, I won, please pay