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Giantvegas & Royaldice stiffed me for over $7000

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by casperfix, Aug 18, 2006.

    Aug 18, 2006
  1. casperfix

    casperfix Dormant account

    Occupation:
    receptionist
    Location:
    Arizona
    I have waited a long, long time and tried many, many channels to get
    paid what I rightfully won.

    Giant Vegas & Royal Dice are dishonest and deceptive; they deny their
    own terms & conditions. Between the two casinos they have confiscated
    more than $7000 of my winnings!

    When I played, the terms stated that Three Card Poker counted towards
    the completion of the wagering requirements. The terms also stated
    that roulette could be played but that it would not count toward the
    wagering requirements. NOWHERE did the terms say that roulette could not
    be played!

    The casinos sent me an email AFTER I made my deposits, indicating that
    if I wished to play any exluded game I should notify them.

    I ask you, the betting public, after you deposit at an online casino
    what would you do next? Check your email for additional terms &
    conditions or play your money? The answer is obvious. Giant Vegas and Royal
    Dice are trying to pull a fast one.

    As I said I have tried many avenues for help (the playtech dispute team
    [what a joke!], Bryan Bailey at Casinomeister.com, and more) but
    nothing has changed. And it seems these two casinos are continuing
    business as usual, and their affiliates continue to work as intensively
    as ever with these casinos as well...

    Here are some emails I got from them, I saved also a screesnhot supporting my claim that it was not mentioned that you may not play roulette at all



    Dear xxx



    Please note that we have terms and conditions in place, like any casino to prevent unfair gaming. Upon your purchase and receipt of bonus you were sent an email that outlined the terms and conditions of this first deposit bonus. These terms and conditions are also outlined on our website for the first deposit bonus. Furthermore, in the email you received it states that should you wish to play an excluded game you should contact support in order to remove the bonus before you commence play.



    We are aware that you met the wagering requirement playing 3 card poker after you played roulette. However, we cannot overlook the fact you made your winnings playing roulette with your deposit + bonus before moving onto an accepted game. This has been deemed suspicious play as it was conducted at both casinos in exactly the same manner.



    I understand your frustration; however the casino is bound by these terms and conditions. We have decided to return your initial deposits as it appears you misunderstood the terms of the bonus and terms of use of this casino and it would be unfair of us to penalise you for such a mistake. Please accept this as a gesture of goodwill.



    Kind Regards

    Cleo
     
  2. Aug 18, 2006
  3. hbears341

    hbears341 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    I QUIT
    Location:
    Somewhere
    This is a bunch of crap, but at least you got your deposits back. :oops:
     
  4. Aug 18, 2006
  5. mitch

    mitch Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Secret
    Location:
    UK
    Ah the old 'Deposit, get your sticky bonus then bang it all on one number on roulette' routine.

    Anyone doing this is no mug at internet casinos and should know enough to make absolutely sure that the casino in question will allow this play before proceeding.

    Such gross and obvious play gets little sympathy from me as it is this sort of thing that has caused casinos to reduce their bonuses and wrap them up in absolutely ridiculous conditions to the detriment of ordinary punters and sensible advantage players alike.

    Mitch
     
  6. Aug 18, 2006
  7. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    Ditto!
     
  8. Aug 18, 2006
  9. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Casperfix,

    Can you show us the screenshot that supports your claim. It should, supposedly, be the Terms and Conditions relating to first-deposit bonuses at the casinos' websites.
     
  10. Aug 19, 2006
  11. casperfix

    casperfix Dormant account

    Occupation:
    receptionist
    Location:
    Arizona
    Hi

    Here we are!
     
  12. Aug 19, 2006
  13. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Casperfix,

    What you have to prove is that these Ts and Cs were in force when you started playing because I note that in their website it states explicitly that you cannot play roulette until you have met the WRs. Incidentally, why were the Playtech dispute Team unable to help? What reason did they give you for siding with the casino? Furthermore, did you PM the casino rep at this forum?
     
  14. Aug 19, 2006
  15. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    What dates were these deposits made?

    Giant Vegas terms page was changed on July 11.

    Royal Dice terms page was changed on August 1.

    Gotta love firefox....right click, choose "page info" ;) Too bad it doesn't work on dynamic pages such as .php, etc...


    Hopefully you only chopped the screenshots down to post them here. For something like this, you really want to include the full screen that will show the system date & time on your computer.

    Either way, it makes you wonder why casinos won't put the date&time on the terms page of when they changed. What would it be hurting unless they're out to tell people they don't want to pay "Oh, we're sorry, we changed the terms"? It would only take a couple seconds to plug the date and time in there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2006
  16. Aug 19, 2006
  17. casperfix

    casperfix Dormant account

    Occupation:
    receptionist
    Location:
    Arizona
    The dates are right

    The winnings are right

    The casino is not right ? Why dont you understand a simple thing

    GIANTVEGAS AND ROYAL DICE DOES NOT WANT TO PAY WITH NO REASON, JUST BECAUSE THEY LOST TOO MUCH

    I WON TOO MUCH, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST AND NOT THE LAST TIME A BAD CASINO IS NOT PAYING

    ALL I WANT IS THEM TO BE BLACKLISTED THEN THEY PAY ME.
     
  18. Aug 19, 2006
  19. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Like you're going to get any help around here with that attitude. Consider this my last post in this thread, and I'm sure others may feel the same way.

    edit:We simply asked if you could prove to the casino when those SS's were taken. If you can't prove that, then you have no case.

    I'm sure $7k is not "too much". The terms are in question here. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Do you have a screenshot that shows the DATE AND TIME it was taken? If not, too bad. It's your word against theirs, and considering the fact that most all casinos will NOT allow Roulette play to clear a bonus, you're probably SOL.



    Does the world only revolve around you?

    Good luck.

    PS: I was trying to give you some advice in case this ever happened again where you needed to take a screenshot of the T&C's. XP by default shows the date and time in the lower right hand corner of your taskbar. Just leave the SS untouched and you would be fine.

    PPS: Have you bothered to PM the rep on board here?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2006
  20. Aug 19, 2006
  21. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    It was a cut and paste job for the T&C'c. First line was cutoff, 4th line ditto....intersting the whole section wasn't copied without cutting and pasting....as many others have done.
    I think the reason for the cut and paste job is he can't prove his claims I believe.
     
  22. Aug 19, 2006
  23. casperfix

    casperfix Dormant account

    Occupation:
    receptionist
    Location:
    Arizona
    I am sorry, I forgot that I had to cut the screenshots because of the fact that there is a limit to the attachment I can attach anyway here it is:

    As I said the dates are right.
     
  24. Aug 21, 2006
  25. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Don't think that's quite accurate. You should not have played roulette to begin with. It was posted in their terms and conditions, and they notified you by email as well.

    These terms and conditions are also outlined on our website for the first deposit bonus. Furthermore, in the email you received it states that should you wish to play an excluded game you should contact support in order to remove the bonus before you commence play.

    We are aware that you met the wagering requirement playing 3 card poker after you played roulette. However, we cannot overlook the fact you made your winnings playing roulette with your deposit + bonus before moving onto an accepted game. This has been deemed suspicious play as it was conducted at both casinos in exactly the same manner.


    So, what's this? I don't get it. You sign up at a casino, you read where is says roulette doesn't count towards WR, but you play it anyway - at not one but two casinos??

    Honestly, if I - or any normal player sees that a certain game is not counted towards WR - these games are to be avoided. Or am I missing something here?

    You were to contact the casino ahead of time before playing roulette. Did you do this?

    Blackmailing casinos by making postings isn't the way to go, especially if you are trying to clear up a misunderstanding or whatever.
     
  26. Aug 21, 2006
  27. casperfix

    casperfix Dormant account

    Occupation:
    receptionist
    Location:
    Arizona
    Casinomeister, first of all it was not mentioned in their terms and I attached the full terms and condition.

    If it was so obvious from the terms why did they have to send the email why did they mention the email, why did they concentrate on that ?

    The email was sent right after I deposited , I don't suppose to read emails after I deposit. I suppose to read the terms at the website and then play.

    Second, there is a big difference between , does not count towards wagering which means feel free to play it for your own fun than the term that you can not play it at all.

    Even the casino agree to that difference and this is why they sent the email, although it is not relevant.

    I will give examples to clarify myself:

    If you look at Casino del rio terms you will find this term:

    Bets placed on all versions of Baccarat, all versions of Roulette, all versions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, all versions of Blackjack, Blackjack Switch, Blackjack Surrender, Casino War, Pontoon and Craps will not be counted toward wagering requirements. We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered on the above mentioned games.


    This means you can't play the games at all but from the first statement that the games dont count towards wagering you may understand that you feel free to play them for the fun.

    When a casino state that a certain game does not count towards wagering, he does that because you may bet a non risk bet on those games like roulette, craps... but if you play them not for the wagering have a nice day.

    There is a big difference between the two
     
  28. Aug 21, 2006
  29. casperfix

    casperfix Dormant account

    Occupation:
    receptionist
    Location:
    Arizona
    also, you can see that now Giantvegas/Royaldice has the additional words at their terms:

    If you do place a bet on a restricted or excluded game before you will have met your wagering requirements, then any winnings from that excluded or restricted game will be immediately null and void

    This term was not there when I played.

    I am not the only one who play games which was mentioned they are not for the wagering.

    What is wrong with that ??

    Think about it, if you get an offer that need to be wagered in Slots, but u like to play craps, you play some craps risking your funds and then you got to play some slots and cashout, what is wrong with that ???

    Casinomeister, you can ask other members that you know and trust, if there is a difference between those terms and I am sure they tell you that there is a big difference.
     
  30. Aug 21, 2006
  31. casperfix

    casperfix Dormant account

    Occupation:
    receptionist
    Location:
    Arizona
    The email they sent me right after I deposited you can compare it to the Sunny group situation.

    They offer the bonus and the terms at the website and after you deposit they send you an email, this is a joke, and then not to pay.
     
  32. Aug 21, 2006
  33. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Most of us here know the difference as we have seen this argued umpteen times before. However, what you need to do now is to Prove that the Terms and Conditions were amended after you initiated a withdrawal or at least after you started playing. The e-mail they sent to you might be for the purpose of reinforcing the Terms and Conditions they already have so arguing on why they did it isnt going to help much.
     
  34. Aug 21, 2006
  35. casperfix

    casperfix Dormant account

    Occupation:
    receptionist
    Location:
    Arizona
    chuchu59, you say most of us understand while the casinomeister doubt that difference.

    Second I cashed in on the 18 Jun 2005 and the screenshot is from the 21 of June, they changed the terms couple of month later.

    Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 03:26:33 -0400
    From: "Royal Dice Casino" <support@royaldice.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
    To: xxxxxxxxxx>
    Subject: Thank you for your withdrawal!

    Dear xxxxxx,

    Thank you for choosing to play at RoyalDice!

    We have received your withdrawal request for the total amount of
    $2,328.00, together with your preferred payment method of money NETeller.

    Your transaction request code is: 334271NT.

    Please be advised that all withdrawal requests are processed 4 business
    days following the request date, as per our Withdrawal Policy, unless
    stated otherwise according to your VIP level. Your withdrawal request
    will be displayed in the 'Pending Withdrawals' section under the casino's
    Cashier section until the day it is processed.

    PLEASE NOTE: All withdrawals will be first credited to your FIREPAY
    cards (if you use this payment method) up to the total original amount
    that was deposited per card. The balance will then be sent to you via your
    choice of Neteller. Please also note that we can no longer issue
    credits against previous MasterCard and Visa deposits.

    If you wish to cancel your withdrawal request or have any questions,
    please do not hesitate to contact Royal Dice Casino Support team.
    They are available 24*7 at:

    Email: This email is not visible to you.

    Toll Free (U.S. only)
    Phone: 1-866-609-0298
    Fax: 1-866-609-0293

    International
    Phone: 1-268-481-2303
    Fax: 1-268-481-2329
     
  36. Aug 21, 2006
  37. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Of course Bryan knows the difference. He is just putting it nicely by asking why you still play roulette at both casinos knowing well they dont count towards WRs. There is a suspicion among some of us that you doubled your bankroll through taking the bonus and then betting big for a king-sized win although there are doubts on whether this is allowed. If you can prove that the terms were amended after you started playing you may have a case. From your screenshots, this cannot be proved though.

    Have you PMed the rep? Invite him to counter your claim here by asking him when the Ts and Cs were amended. Other than that, there just isnt much that can be done.
     
  38. Aug 21, 2006
  39. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    If you look at the screenshots for the terms when he played, the term that is now 'term 5' was not there.

    That term says 'if you play an excluded game, first get the bonus removed from your acount'

    According to his screen shots, that term was not there then. It is now. So the terms now are different from then. Given that it now says you have to get the bonus removed before playing excluded ames, and did not then, the obvious inference is that it is not allowed now, but was thn, otherwise why would they add it?

    The email sent after the player signed up is too late - this is a signup bonus, advertised on a website, not an email offer. Most players will read the site, signup, and pla y straight away. You aren't going to go away and check your emails.

    Clearly he tried to beat their bonuses in an unsubtle manner, but he didn't break their rules as they were then, as shown by the fact that the rules have since changed.
     

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