General increase in complaints?

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
Gaz that should absolutely be the regulation. Casinos should absolutely not accept any deposit if by doing so would necessitate a SOW from the punter. If they accept a deposit, then they need to pay any winnings from that deposit before asking for SOW.

That should be a cast iron rule for every regulated casino.
Agreed.

The only caveat I would add is that an exception could be made if the customer raises suspicious playing behaviour with that deposit (turning deposit over once, low risk casino betting etc).
 

dealer wins

Meister Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Location
London the sh$thole
Agreed.

The only caveat I would add is that an exception could be made if the customer raises suspicious playing behaviour with that deposit (turning deposit over once, low risk casino betting etc).
Agreed, but I still cant understand how that would be of any advantage to a money launderer. Deposit £500, gamble it through once, withdraw. So bank statement would show debit -£500 mlcasino, then +£500 mlcasino. How is that laundering money lol
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
Agreed, but I still cant understand how that would be of any advantage to a money launderer. Deposit £500, gamble it through once, withdraw. So bank statement would show debit -£500 mlcasino, then +£500 mlcasino. How is that laundering money lol
Yeah I've never understood it either. Once the money is in your bank it's in your bank and there is a trail. Which is why I've never understood deposit via debit card requiring SOW.
 

Gaz237

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
May 8, 2014
Location
chelmsford UK
But you were close to not being able to get through an SOW without Jan's help.

There was no guarantee you'd have got that withdrawal if you couldn't pass it. Deposits are slightly more protected I think. In any case, I'd rather lose a £50 deposit than a 1k withdraw.

I would rather of turned £50 into £1000 and wait for the money.

Remember I could not get verified at Casumo, once the stalemate was reached, there was a 6 week gap and the money was in my bank and account closed.

So they can't just keep your money forever.
 

Davey86

They make things hard for us because they can
MM
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Location
Newcastle upon tyne
Half agree.
Some sites, Casumo in particluar seem to make demands that are almost impossible to comply with.
Id+documents from third parties etc.

But from what ive read these last couple days, they seem to have started to release peoples withdrawals even if sow is not finished, or documents are declined.

For me freezing a deposit or a withdrawal would be pretty much the same, because i recycle alot of the money i gamble with. So a sizeable withdrawal being held ransom would mean i wouldnt feel safe to deposit elsewhere before i got that sorted.
Wouldnt want to overshoot my budget because im expecting a withdrawal that then does not show up.

Like some people have mentioned already, a third party taking care of Sow:s would probably be for the best, both for casinos and players.
Then when a casino needs to do a check they just contact Kroffe-sow-enterprise© and ask me to do a check on Gaz. And wouldnt you know it, another site asked for that last week, so i already have a fresh sow-check ready for them.

View attachment 137027
I’ve mentioned something like a Kroffe-SOW- enterprise system before
Their should be a universal (or license region specific) system in place where everybody wins casinos don’t get fined from regulators punters/players not messed about by casinos
Simple test drawn up for 1 specific company to follow from regulator for casinos and players.even just a UKGC & MGA specific requirement would probably sort out 70% of complaints in one swoop other 30% is probably curacao related shit.

ive often wondered why all thebig gambling forums and websites and player arbitration plus all the accredited reps of casinos can’t lobby for something so simple?
 

dealer wins

Meister Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Location
London the sh$thole
Another thing, how does a SOW check prevent money laundering for the vast majority that deposit using their debit card.

By definition, the source of funds has to be the players, as its coming from their bank own account. And the affordability is the fact the card payment went through lol
 

paul7388

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Location
glasgow scotland
Think it is about time people started taking all these companies to court.

Wonder what the actual legal status would be.

Customer deposits £200 and wins £2000. Casino does SOW and says they can't afford to gamble so not getting withdrawal.

Customer explains i never paid my rent and used £200 of that to gamble. Whether they have gambled money that they could not afford that was for bills or not i can not legally see the casino being able to refuse the withdrawal.

Pretty sure the court would say yes the customer should be paying their bills but it is still their own money so anything won from it they are entitled to.

The casino should be telling them they cannot afford to gamble so they will process the withdrawal as it is customers money then close the account.

Can just imagine someone on minimum wage or benefits booking a holiday that they saved for and cost thousands. Getting to airport and getting asked to prove they can afford to go away to Spain for a week. Showing them your wagesslip and getting told sorry you should be spending your money on better things you are not allowed to board the flight and since we feel you can not afford a holiday you will not get a refund.
 
Last edited:

Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
Think it is about time people started taking all these companies to court.

Wonder what the actual legal status would be.

Customer deposits £200 and wins £2000. Casino does SOW and says they can't afford to gamble so not getting withdrawal.

Customer explains i never paid my rent and used £200 of that to gamble. Whether they have gambled money that they could not afford that was for bills or not i can not legally see the casino being able to refuse the withdrawal.

Pretty sure the court would say yes the customer should be paying their bills but it is still their own money so anything won from it they are entitled to.

The casino should be telling them they cannot afford to gamble so they will process the withdrawal as it is customers money then close the account.

Can just imagine someone on minimum wage or benefits booking a holiday that they saved for and cost thousands. Getting to airport and getting asked to prove they can afford to go away to Spain for a week. Showing them your wagesslip and getting told sorry you should be spending your money on better things you are not allowed to board the flight and since we feel you can not afford a holiday you will not get a refund.
Im not 100% sure, but is that not what happens if a casino decides you are playing over your means.
Only way they can withhold a withdrawal forever is if they suspect&prove money laundering or something else illegal, right?
 

paul7388

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Location
glasgow scotland
Im not 100% sure, but is that not what happens if a casino decides you are playing over your means.
Only way they can withhold a withdrawal forever is if they suspect&prove money laundering or something else illegal, right?

No idea.

For amount i deposit i shouldn't need to worry.

I am just going on fact so many people are getting SOW and withdrawals delayed while they have to keep showing they can afford it.

End of day if i get paid say £2000 and deposit whole lot in casino i can't afford it. But i can sure as hell prove it was my money. So casino should do withdrawal right away not piss about for weeks then lock my account since i obviously have a problem .
 

shadow123

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
midlands
Think it is about time people started taking all these companies to court.

Wonder what the actual legal status would be.

Customer deposits £200 and wins £2000. Casino does SOW and says they can't afford to gamble so not getting withdrawal.

Customer explains i never paid my rent and used £200 of that to gamble. Whether they have gambled money that they could not afford that was for bills or not i can not legally see the casino being able to refuse the withdrawal.

Pretty sure the court would say yes the customer should be paying their bills but it is still their own money so anything won from it they are entitled to.

The casino should be telling them they cannot afford to gamble so they will process the withdrawal as it is customers money then close the account.

Can just imagine someone on minimum wage or benefits booking a holiday that they saved for and cost thousands. Getting to airport and getting asked to prove they can afford to go away to Spain for a week. Showing them your wagesslip and getting told sorry you should be spending your money on better things you are not allowed to board the flight and since we feel you can not afford a holiday you will not get a refund.


Really makes you wonder about the legality of the whole thing,pretty sure that SOW demands that involve
disclosure of third party information could be challenged in court esp if refusal to supply this results in
player funds being withheld for an indeterminate period.
It should also be remembered that all funds held by a casino, belong to the player, not the casino, not the UKGC
and is there any legal right for casinos to withhold them for any reason other than fraud.
Would love to see some test cases.
 
Last edited:

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Im not 100% sure, but is that not what happens if a casino decides you are playing over your means.
Only way they can withhold a withdrawal forever is if they suspect&prove money laundering or something else illegal, right?

If they decide you're over stretched, by virtue of the magic 8 ball in their offices, presumably just say 'no more Sir' - that would certainly be a turn up for the books if we heard a casino, upon deciding a player couldn't afford to make the last deposit, withholding money to put them in an even more precarious position :p

Wouldn't surprise me though if someone tries it one day.

You took the bet, you pay the winnings. After that? Do what you want. And the players will do as well - namely go to another place. And if they do it, another place. Until we reach the point when we start betting on snail races for the dopamine hits.
 

lewisnadasurf

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Location
Earth
Maybe I'm wrong, but lately it seems to me that the complaints about the difficulties in making a withdrawal on accredited or not accredited casinos have increased, maybe for different reasons.
Certainly the kyc is much more selective, probably for the new anti-money laundering regulations, however when this happens it always creeps
in the player the doubt that this happens to delay the withdrawal.
For the first time I myself have had several difficulties in obtaining two withdrawals, one on an accredited casino the other on a non-casino
accredited.
I patiently managed to solve it myself in both cases but I was one step away from asking Max for help with a PAB.
I think that for the player it is always a difficult situation to accept simply because when you deposit on the account nothing is required but everything happens when you withdraw.
In my opinion, especially when large amounts are deposited into the account, the casino should, if they are really concerned about complying with anti-money laundering regulations, immediately start the KYC by blocking deposits above a certain threshold because I do not believe that the casino can replace government bodies by confiscating large sums for money laundering.
Max's opinion on what the law provides in case of casino confiscation for money laundering would also be interesting,
in my opinion, however, he could not keep that money.
Greetings.

Or is it a case of, due to COVID more people are playing online, certain governments are making it difficult for Casinos for players not to overplay, due to COVID. So its a natural increase?
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Maybe I'm wrong, but lately it seems to me that the complaints about the difficulties in making a withdrawal on accredited or not accredited casinos have increased, maybe for different reasons.
...

Apologies for being a little late to the party.

From what I see via the PAB service there hasn't really been an increase in payment-related complaints over the last 6-12 months, quite the opposite actually. I'd say our "slow-pay / no-pay" complaints are probably down 20-30%.

That said there has been an overall increase in complaint volumes over that same 6-12 months by at least 25%, likely more. The increase is almost entirely connected to self-exclusion and responsible gaming complaints. Unfortunately a significant portion of those new complaints end up being either groundless or downright bogus.
 

samdog21

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
PABaccred2
PABnoaccred2
MM
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Location
jacksonspoint ontario canada
Well me personally allways ask that I get verified first before I deposit, I did it at twin np, lv bet np, ojo np, if I ever get asked for kyc for my weekly 200$ deposits, spread around, how would I ever say where the 200$ came from. Lmfao. I only ask that because had hell of a time at risk at first fully verified now. Even videoslots way back gave me problem. Easyer to verify first.
 

brizman

On a Break
Joined
Jul 5, 2019
Location
Britain
Well me personally allways ask that I get verified first before I deposit, I did it at twin np, lv bet np, ojo np, if I ever get asked for kyc for my weekly 200$ deposits, spread around, how would I ever say where the 200$ came from. Lmfao. I only ask that because had hell of a time at risk at first fully verified now. Even videoslots way back gave me problem. Easyer to verify first.
Isn't that what gambling commission introduced in 2019 anyway? That all uk casinos should verify customer before deposit is made?
 

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Location
Londonia
KYC doesn't actually mean anything when it comes to SoW, hence casinos taking it upon themselves to hound eg $200 per week players once their phantom/ panic over fines 'triggers' are met, much to the chagrin of supposedly 'already verified', regular players.

The New Normal, remember
 

samdog21

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
PABaccred2
PABnoaccred2
MM
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Location
jacksonspoint ontario canada
Isn't that what gambling commission introduced in 2019 anyway? That all uk casinos should verify customer before deposit is made?
Iam Canadian rules different, the reverse option gone in uk not in Canada, but only uk they ask for full kyc, here just the regular shit, I'd, banking, proof of address.
 

samdog21

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
PABaccred2
PABnoaccred2
MM
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Location
jacksonspoint ontario canada
KYC doesn't actually mean anything when it comes to SoW, hence casinos taking it upon themselves to hound eg $200 per week players once their phantom/ panic over fines 'triggers' are met, much to the chagrin of supposedly 'already verified', regular players.

The New Normal, remember
Hence why only play videoslots, risk. Most ever won at one time 3k. 400$ I usually withdraw . My new normal ✌
 
Top