General Election 2024 Thread

[Webzcas]

So standing back, putting in place my tin foil hat, one would assume we have a battle going on, not just here in the UK, but the US and elsewhere. A battle between the globalists and nationalists.

I really do not know what to make about this whole WEF global conspiracy.

As far as the UK is concerned I just think this Government is run by Corbyn in a suit and cleanly shaved ie Starmer.

They are acting like how my parents and those of their generation always used to speak about the Labour Govt of Wilson and Callaghan, which helped Thatcher come to power.

Between 74 - 79, the UK was in turmoil. We had three day weeks, strikes galore and the economy sinking faster than the Titanic.

It is clear that this Labour Govt with the comfort of that massive seat majority have shed their sheep clothing straightaway.

This budget was the politics of envy at work. Beforehand giving in to the demands of the Unions and approving the inflation busting pay rises that they had wanted. Yet the private sector and millions of small businesses are set to pay.

I was speaking to a friend last night who is the MD of a small to medium size retailer. The Employers NI Threshold cut and rate increase, is alone going to cost them overnight £50k a year. Then there is the minimum wage increase.

All this will do will ensure they are unlikely to create new positions and also possibly force them to let some people go. This will be mirrored up and down the country.

Indeed the so called £25bn that Rachel Thieves hopes this measure will raise, is likely to be half of that amount as a result.

Costs incurred by businesses by just the Employer's NI changes will no doubt be passed on to us, the public.

Honestly and certainly based on how the markets have reacted, this budget is not far off in terms of damage it will cause, to Liz Truss's infamous mini budget.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Sheesh folks, anyone would think Stalin and his tanks had just rolled into Red Square.

This is a big budget, it needed to be a big budget, and when you're spending and borrowing as much as this, there are going to be losers, but at least for a change it's not the same people the Tories have been grinding into the dirt for the last 14 years, and at least Labour are actually investing in the UK, something the Tories signally failed to do and ended up getting kicked out on their arses with such vigour that there's a smouldering crater left where the Conservative Party used to be.

Honestly, if you're not already rich, stop going out to bat for the rich. These are people who would rip off your head and shit down your necks if they thought there was a single penny in it for them. Aspiration and entrepreneurship being crushed my arse, it's all built on the backs of the workers and it's time the scales were tipped back a bit.

The rich like nothing more when people who are absolutely not rich, but are somehow convinced that one day they will be, provide a human shield for their ongoing ruinous larceny. These great patriotic Brits who love the UK so much that they're falling over themselves to tell us all how they'll fuck off with their sacks of cash the second they're asked to contribute their fair share to the land they claim to cherish.

'We'll live in the UK as long as you let us pretend we don't' isn't a great rallying cry for the betterment of Britain, is it?

As for the farmers, by all accounts it's only the wealthiest estates that are going to be hit. Clarkson's frothing about it but he's on record explicitly stating that he was getting into land and farming to dodge tax. You know who doesn't get to pull shit like that? Ordinary working people.

Despite the fact this is a big budget, in the grand scheme of things it's only mildly redistributive, so let's not cry too many rivers for all the millionaires being forced to pay a bit more capital gains tax on what is basically unearned income, and still at a far lower rate than people who actually, y'know, go out to work for a living.

The single biggest indicator of wealth in the UK, and whether or not someone will live a wealthy life, is if they're born into it - end of story. Talk of aspiration and opportunity is all well and good, but the truth is that an awful lot of people never have much of either, because they never even get a chance.

This budget is a first step along the path to putting right some of the wrongs of the last fourteen years, Reeves is also planning ahead, so some of the measures here will start to bear fruit in 3-5 years time, which will mesh in with the election cycle, so hopefully a good number of people will be starting to feel the benefits by the time Britain goes to the polls again.

If one of the biggest moans you've got is, 'My recreational drugs are being made more expensive so fuck Labour I'm going to make my own', then you're probably going to be OK.

 

[goatwack]

Kemi Badenoch emerges triumphant in breaking news, as Robert Jenrick tries to hold back the tears.

'Poisoned chalice', 'thankless task' and 'transitional mess' spring to mind as the Tories throw one last hail mary with the ball game all but over anyway and all their wide receivers hobbling on crutches.

But still, comparisons abound from when Labour were in a similar state of disarray and drew straws to elect a new leader in the post-Corbyn wasteland, now look at them go!

A definite improvement on Priti Patel at least, so let's see where they go from here with Reform frothing at the sidelines

 

[itsme123]

Sheesh folks, anyone would think Stalin and his tanks had just rolled into Red Square.

This is a big budget, it needed to be a big budget, and when you're spending and borrowing as much as this, there are going to be losers, but at least for a change it's not the same people the Tories have been grinding into the dirt for the last 14 years, and at least Labour are actually investing in the UK, something the Tories signally failed to do and ended up getting kicked out on their arses with such vigour that there's a smouldering crater left where the Conservative Party used to be.

Completely wrong, everyone who is working for a small business is a loser as they need to find a way to pay the massive increase in overheads they have just been handed.
And by nature of being a small business, who are they employing? 99% of the time its local people they employ, putting money into the local economy and growing. Growth wont happen for the foreseeable future while they are paying a lot more in taxation.
Last time I checked I think it was around 34% of the total employed workforce in the UK was employed by a business with under 30 employees, so these are the people who will pay for this budget by getting smaller pay rises and will probably find adjustments to their terms so that their employers can find the money for NI and also the minimum wage.
I dont see a single winner in this budget, apart from those consuming ten or more pints a day and I think its going to stifle growth for years to come.
I hope Labour are ready to be a one term government....

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Completely wrong, everyone who is working for a small business is a loser as they need to find a way to pay the massive increase in overheads they have just been handed.
And by nature of being a small business, who are they employing? 99% of the time its local people they employ, putting money into the local economy and growing. Growth wont happen for the foreseeable future while they are paying a lot more in taxation.
Last time I checked I think it was around 34% of the total employed workforce in the UK was employed by a business with under 30 employees, so these are the people who will pay for this budget by getting smaller pay rises and will probably find adjustments to their terms so that their employers can find the money for NI and also the minimum wage.
I dont see a single winner in this budget, apart from those consuming ten or more pints a day and I think its going to stifle growth for years to come.
I hope Labour are ready to be a one term government....

I've just listened to the latest The Rest Is Politics podcast (linked below) and this point comes up, that as it stands the NI proposals are potentially going to hit smaller employers and their staff hardest.

Also mentioned are farmers who are 'land rich but cash poor', who could find themselves in the £1m asset category because land prices are so bananas, but be living on incomes of around £20K.

Rory Stewart also brings up the elephant in the room of Brexit, which is currently reckoned to be on course to reduce UK trade volume in the long term by an incredibly awful fifteen percent - and there was nothing in the budget about this (cough, Customs Union!).

Campbell makes the point that budgets are often finessed, tweaked and changed in the days and weeks after their announcement before implementation, so what should be happening now is Reeves and her colleagues listen to feedback and concerns around the proposals and make amendments where necessary.

Also one thing I didn't mention above (which they do) is the extent to which the Tories cooked the books, with the OBR basically now having come out to say they all but lied about the state of the UK's finances, and also locked Labour into unfunded promises that Labour have felt dutybound to uphold. There's also £11bn for the infected blood scandal and £1bn for the post masters, which the Tories hadn't funded, and Labour and now making good on.

So yes, it's not a perfect budget and hopefully it'll get some tweaks and alterations before it's actually passed into law. This is a decent analysis that acknowledges that it's big and bold, and most definitely announces a break with the Tory years of austerity, but it leaves some stuff out and what is in there could do with some second looks - and hopefully that will happen.

 

[mack341]

Chop you're reminding me of the fast show, the guy who changes his opinions. You've gone from 'this is a very good budget, stick it to the rich' to yeah it could cause average folk some problems, hopefully it will be amended soon.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Chop you're reminding me of the fast show, the guy who changes his opinions. You've gone from 'this is a very good budget, stick it to the rich' to yeah it could cause average folk some problems, hopefully it will be amended soon.

A bit of critical analysis and being prepared to consider alternative points of view when they're backed up with evidence, what an unreasonable bastard I am!

You know Brexit wouldn't have even got out of the starting blocks if a few more people had been prepared to do that.

 

[dealer wins]

The Labour party are like a slot machine with a 60% RTP, that also is faulty and electrocutes you when you press the spin button.

And if you do win, there's a 30% redemption to cash fee.

And the casino its in stinks of piss

 

[Webzcas]

Sheesh folks, anyone would think Stalin and his tanks had just rolled into Red Square.

Yes, very close. This is hands down the most left wing government I have experienced in my life time and I am 50.

This is a big budget, it needed to be a big budget, and when you're spending and borrowing as much as this, there are going to be losers, but at least for a change it's not the same people the Tories have been grinding into the dirt for the last 14 years, and at least Labour are actually investing in the UK, something the Tories signally failed to do and ended up getting kicked out on their arses with such vigour that there's a smouldering crater left where the Conservative Party used to be.

You are not wrong there. This is a massive budget which will have major ramifications throughout the entire private sector. The near 50% reduction to the Employers National Insurance threshold to just £5,000, plus an increase to the rate paid, will see the majority of small and medium sized businesses cut their cloth accordingly.

You know the businesses that are so vital for offering employment up and down the country. Not the behemoths that can easily afford to take such a hit. I am talking about the sole traders, the independent shops, garages, light industry, hospitality, retail sector. The businesses which are so vital for the local economy to keep on ticking over.

Yet raiding these businesses so the Labour Government are able to do the bidding of their pay masters ( the unions ) we will see many of them close or think long and hard about laying employees off and not making new positions available.

Honestly, if you're not already rich, stop going out to bat for the rich. These are people who would rip off your head and shit down your necks if they thought there was a single penny in it for them. Aspiration and entrepreneurship being crushed my arse, it's all built on the backs of the workers and it's time the scales were tipped back a bit.

The 'rich' will be able to stomach it. I am sure though as a result the same 'rich' individuals and companies will think twice about creating more work in the UK, thanks to this budget.

The rich like nothing more when people who are absolutely not rich, but are somehow convinced that one day they will be, provide a human shield for their ongoing ruinous larceny.These great patriotic Brits who love the UK so much that they're falling over themselves to tell us all how they'll fuck off with their sacks of cash the second they're asked to contribute their fair share to the land they claim to cherish.'We'll live in the UK as long as you let us pretend we don't' isn't a great rallying cry for the betterment of Britain, is it?

You are showing a trait that this Labour Govt are showing all too clearly. The politics of envy!

Do you @ChopleyIOM begrudge people doing well? We live in a capitalist society, if you don't like it, move to Russia or better still North Korea.

As for the farmers, by all accounts it's only the wealthiest estates that are going to be hit. Clarkson's frothing about it but he's on record explicitly stating that he was getting into land and farming to dodge tax. You know who doesn't get to pull shit like that? Ordinary working people.

Even small holdings of a few acres will be worth in excess of £1million. Seriously instead of listening to Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart ( two very dubious sources at the best of times ), perform some better research. Edited as I have just read your later posts and see that they for once said something sensible and actually agree with me!

Despite the fact this is a big budget, in the grand scheme of things it's only mildly redistributive, so let's not cry too many rivers for all the millionaires being forced to pay a bit more capital gains tax on what is basically unearned income, and still at a far lower rate than people who actually, y'know, go out to work for a living.

Mildly redistributive? If it allows Labour to pander to their union paymasters and agree to their inflation busting demands that's all good then?! Then there is the madness of Net Zero, costing eye watering sums, but foisting our carbon emissions offshore to other countries.

The single biggest indicator of wealth in the UK, and whether or not someone will live a wealthy life, is if they're born into it - end of story. Talk of aspiration and opportunity is all well and good, but the truth is that an awful lot of people never have much of either, because they never even get a chance.

This comment is bordering offensive to those people up and down who have been able to be successful. As said above, your jealousy and support of politics of envy is showing in this statement.

This budget is a first step along the path to putting right some of the wrongs of the last fourteen years, Reeves is also planning ahead, so some of the measures here will start to bear fruit in 3-5 years time, which will mesh in with the election cycle, so hopefully a good number of people will be starting to feel the benefits by the time Britain goes to the polls again.

Oh the austerity years of Cameron and Osbourne were terrible, yes. But a few issues such as a world wide pandemic and a war raging in Eastern Europe might, just might be the reason we find ourselves in the current state we do.

Clobbering the private sector in punitive tax measures is not the way forward.

If one of the biggest moans you've got is, 'My recreational drugs are being made more expensive so fuck Labour I'm going to make my own', then you're probably going to be OK.

Yes, why should I have to pay THREE times for a product that helped me give up my life time habit of smoking? It is clear why they are doing this, it is because they no longer are getting the revenues from the taxation on tobacco. Because people have made a sensible choice and have managed to kick the habit thanks in a large part to vaping.

 

[megadam]

As much as I don't entirely agree with the extremities that the right wing group in here seem to gang up on with (Your evidence such as using a vile twit like Isabelle Oakes who quite frankly gives journalism an absolute shambolic name for instance) this budget was really quite crap with regards to the NI increase.

As pointed out above, despite the fact that many more businesses will get Employment Allowance which is a good change to bring in, the change in threshold and the flat increase in NI rate is going to have a serious consequence on business's finances and will no doubt ripple down to working people either through wage stagnation, hiring freezes, job losses and even increased prices as that's an easy thing for businesses to do.

And I really really am getting fed up of the like of Darren Jones coming out and saying again and again we've stuck to the Labour election pledges of not raising taxes on working people. Is a business owner by definition not a "working" person? I'm a sole trader so I'm not affected by the NI changes (Sole traders pay Class 4, the raises only affect Class 1) but I'd be pissed if I was contractor being forced to work under an umbrella company as that fucked up situation forces you to pay both employees and employer's NI despite being a contractor without rights. Are they any less of a working person?

 

[geordiecolin]

Terry would have been banged up for a long stretch these days but Arthur saw the signs years ago

 

[mack341]

If our democracy was working correctly Labour should've announced the biggest parts of their plan prior to the general election, then folk would have had a proper say in the matter.

The treasury department is permanent, and have to share information with his majesty's opposition, so they knew the state of the finances prior to the election.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yes, very close. This is hands down the most left wing government I have experienced in my life time and I am 50.

They've come out swinging arguably to the left of Blair/Brown. I'm also 50 so we were both alive during the Callaghan Labour government of the late 70s, albeit the first Labour government either of us will be able to actually remember is Blair - which I guess is what you mean there.

You are not wrong there. This is a massive budget which will have major ramifications throughout the entire private sector. The near 50% reduction to the Employers National Insurance threshold to just £5,000, plus an increase to the rate paid, will see the majority of small and medium sized businesses cut their cloth accordingly.

You know the businesses that are so vital for offering employment up and down the country. Not the behemoths that can easily afford to take such a hit. I am talking about the sole traders, the independent shops, garages, light industry, hospitality, retail sector. The businesses which are so vital for the local economy to keep on ticking over.

Yet raiding these businesses so the Labour Government are able to do the bidding of their pay masters ( the unions ) we will see many of them close or think long and hard about laying employees off and not making new positions available.

I remember when we were told the introduction of the minimum wage was going to cause economic catastrophe and that we must 'let the market decide', and it turned out it was basically all bollocks, so let's wait and see how this one shakes out.

Also as previously noted, there is still time for the proposals to be tweaked before they become law.

My personal preference would have been for Labour to do this thing properly and just introduce a wealth tax, but that's not the route they decided to go down, and doubtless that would have been decried as 'Communist' by people earning the minimum wage, incensed that when they finally became millionaires, their aspiration would have been crushed.

The 'rich' will be able to stomach it. I am sure though as a result the same 'rich' individuals and companies will think twice about creating more work in the UK, thanks to this budget.

You are showing a trait that this Labour Govt are showing all too clearly. The politics of envy!

Yes but they always say that don't they? Their entire existence seems dedicated to making dire threats to destroy this or withdraw that, or cease doing the other, unless their every whim and desire is catered for.

It's not even like Labour's particularly going after them with this budget, it'll make them a bit worse off, they'll still be filthy rich and be just fine. Makes a nice change from the Tories and their bedroom tax and all that other vicious shit they got up to, trampling on the faces of the people who already had the least.

Do you @ChopleyIOM begrudge people doing well? We live in a capitalist society, if you don't like it, move to Russia or better still North Korea.

Capitalism needs checks and balances, it needs to be regulated and controlled. You don't need to rewind the clock that far back to get to a time when holiday and sickness pay weren't a thing, safety at work was a joke, maternity leave didn't exist, and so on.

The history of capitalism teaches us that for the many not to get fucked over by the few, someone needs to make sure it's kept on a leash.

No one's saying that folks can't make a profit or get to be very wealthy, but they shouldn't be allowed to grind others into the dirt in the process.

Even small holdings of a few acres will be worth in excess of £1million. Seriously instead of listening to Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart ( two very dubious sources at the best of times ), perform some better research. Edited as I have just read your later posts and see that they for once said something sensible and actually agree with me!


Mildly redistributive? If it allows Labour to pander to their union paymasters and agree to their inflation busting demands that's all good then?! Then there is the madness of Net Zero, costing eye watering sums, but foisting our carbon emissions offshore to other countries.

Heavy forfend the working classes should organise and protect themselves and their interests eh? Labour have brought to an end strikes that have been going on for years and cost the country a fortune, that the Tories either couldn't or wouldn't get a grip of.

Every single benefit that working people are entitled to today was hard fought for, and won, by the trade union movement. The rich didn't just wake up one day and think, 'Actually, I'd like to be a bit less rich by being nicer to my workers'.

This comment is bordering offensive to those people up and down who have been able to be successful. As said above, your jealousy and support of politics of envy is showing in this statement.

What's offensive about pointing out that inherited wealth is the single biggest indicator of whether or not someone will be wealthy? Sure it might be very nice if little Tarquin is loaded because his great grandfather was, but let's not pretend he personally worked for it.

I'm not saying everyone who's done well for themselves didn't work hard for it, but many haven't. And what about, I dunno, nurses, don't they work hard too? And yet some of them have to use food banks to make ends meet.

Oh the austerity years of Cameron and Osbourne were terrible, yes. But a few issues such as a world wide pandemic and a war raging in Eastern Europe might, just might be the reason we find ourselves in the current state we do.

Clobbering the private sector in punitive tax measures is not the way forward.

Well let's see how it shakes out. We go back to the polls in five years, and at that time Labour will be judged on their results. What is for certain is that Labour have defined a clear direction of travel and an obvious break with how the Tories were running the show, and in 2029 the country will be able to choose again what it wants.

Yes, why should I have to pay THREE times for a product that helped me give up my life time habit of smoking? It is clear why they are doing this, it is because they no longer are getting the revenues from the taxation on tobacco. Because people have made a sensible choice and have managed to kick the habit thanks in a large part to vaping.

Vaping is still just a nicotine delivery activity, as is smoking, so let's call it what it is, recreational use of an addictive drug. So it's a better decision than smoking, but still a decision that's being make to take a drug.

You could always just not do it at all, and save 100% of the money associated with it. Take that Starmer!

I like a gamble and I like a drink when I'm out at the pubs with my mates (don't drink at all in the house anymore and haven't for over 18 months), so I pay tax on those recreational activities that whilst enjoyable, are entirely optional and undeniably not good for me (certainly in the case of alcohol). My personal choices, and I'm not crying a river for myself at the cost of a pint or the fact the slots in the pub only pay out 90% RTP.

 

[geordiecolin]

Well I seriously fucked up because I was reliably informed two weeks before the budget that a window tax was to be introduced on all properties backdated to one week prior to the budget

 

[geordiecolin]

Back in the summer David Tennant told Kemi Badenock that the world would be a better place if she didn't exist and that she should shut up. For a strait white guy telling a black women that we heard crickets from Black Life Matters. Was it because she is a Tory?
Does cancel culture politics have a points system?

BeKindAlways but they can never be.

 

[mack341]

Not a smoker but this is a welcome sign of common sense, old buses and vans are still belching pollution, especially in cities, so what harm is a cigarette going to do in comparison. Can you imagine how they would've enforced these laws, cigarette wardens chasing folk down the road for their ID so they can issue a fine.

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Edit: ^^I see links are no longer underlined?

 

[mulven]

Back in the summer David Tennant told Kemi Badenock that the world would be a better place if she didn't exist and that she should shut up. For a strait white guy telling a black women that we heard crickets from Black Life Matters. Was it because she is a Tory?

Why would that have anything to do with race? I don't hold the same views as David Tennant on gender identity and that sort of stuff but he targeted her in his speech because she was the minister for Women and Equalities and the trans stuff is an equality debate. When it comes to the topic of trans rights those two people are diametrically opposed and that's why he wants her to go away and shut up.

Also this is how I find out the results of the leadership contest? I remember hearing about one of the favourites being knocked out of the race because too many people thought he was safe and changed their votes around after the previous stage. Barely paid attention to british politics recently so never found out the result.

 

[TheAddict]

the trans stuff was and always will be a mental healh issue. Just because commies tried to normalize it, does not make it no longer so.
Keep the mentally ill groomers away from impressionable kids.

 

[mack341]

Why would that have anything to do with race? I don't hold the same views as David Tennant on gender identity and that sort of stuff but he targeted her in his speech because she was the minister for Women and Equalities and the trans stuff is an equality debate. When it comes to the topic of trans rights those two people are diametrically opposed and that's why he wants her to go away and shut up.

Also this is how I find out the results of the leadership contest? I remember hearing about one of the favourites being knocked out of the race because too many people thought he was safe and changed their votes around after the previous stage. Barely paid attention to british politics recently so never found out the result.

Well in the PC liberal world we live in, normally you wouldn't be able to get away with saying to an ethnic minority individual the world would be a better place if they did not exist, regardless of the debate or argument being had. But because she is a tory MP an exception is made by the left/liberal guardians of our society.

Imagine Badenoch saying the same to Tennant, there would be kickback I'm sure by the left, that she's a hateful mad tory etc...yet he can do it with no criticism or harm to his standing.

 

[mulven]

the trans stuff was and always will be a mental healh issue. Just because commies tried to normalize it, does not make it no longer so.
Keep the mentally ill groomers away from impressionable kids.

That stuff being a mental health issue is more in line with my personal opinion on the topic. Make people comfortable in their dysphoria but don't encourage it and tag it on to the pride movement.

I've just realised geordiecolin was satirising the super left wing types. Originally thought it as a genuine comment about race which was confusing.

I'm pretty much "normal" left wing apart from my gender identity stance.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Well in the PC liberal world we live in, normally you wouldn't be able to get away with saying to an ethnic minority individual the world would be a better place if they did not exist, regardless of the debate or argument being had. But because she is a tory MP an exception is made by the left/liberal guardians of our society.

Imagine Badenoch saying the same to Tennant, there would be kickback I'm sure by the left, that she's a hateful mad tory etc...yet he can do it with no criticism or harm to his standing.

 

[mack341]

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[geordiecolin]

If our democracy was working correctly Labour should've announced the biggest parts of their plan prior to the general election, then folk would have had a proper say in the matter.

The treasury department is permanent, and have to share information with his majesty's opposition, so they knew the state of the finances prior to the election.

The Farmers deserved fair warning prior to the election and voters too given as we trust the farmers to be in business to feed us.
It will be an utter shit storm come the protest. Litterally when they get the sprayers out

 

[dunover]

The Farmers deserved fair warning prior to the election and voters too seen as we trust the farmers to be in business to deed us.
It will be an utter shit storm come the protest. Litterally when they get the sprayers out

Yes, it only seems fair that the walls get some shit to match that inside.

 

[dunover]

OH THANK F*CK!!!!!!!!!

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Now I know that not one penny shortly of my television tax (paid under threat of fines and/or imprisonment) will line the pockets of that smug, oily, two-faced, trouble-making, smarmy woketard. Just hope he doesn't take it out on Abdul his imported cabin boy.

@ChopleyIOM you'd better resurrect the disgusting avatar of old....