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Geisha Lounge

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by Dauan, Sep 5, 2005.

    Sep 5, 2005
  1. Dauan

    Dauan Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Holiday Rep
    Location:
    Sharm - El - Sheikh, Egypt
    Hello.

    I deposited 100$ into Geisha Lounge, received the bonus and went on to playing Black Jack with em..

    It went alright, after almost 4000 played, i was up to almost a grand in chips.
    when i passed the 4000 mark, i checked in my withdrawal menu, and it said that my money was withdrawable. I proceeded not to withdraw but to play "excluded games". And in the end i had won to about 4500$. I went on to cashout. I withdrew the money.

    Two days later i log on to my account to see that all my money has been refunded. I get on to the support at the same time as i start playing with the money. As i spoke to support i played and won another 400 odd dollars.
    The support said i had not played enough and my winnings on excluded games were void. On the bonus page it says that playthru is 20x, it says nothing about 40x for blackjack, and does not refer to any other T&C.

    I can appreciate that i was not playing it to 40x, and thats not whats botherring me. What is bothering me is:
    • They cancelled my withdrawal without even emailing me
    • They reset my account to original buy in + bonus amount, should not my amount be reset to the value where i started playing excluded games
    • All of this has happened without any correspondence with me, i was just ignored

    Is this all correct. Please advise
     
  2. Sep 5, 2005
  3. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Says right on the page for promotions that it's 40x for bj. :
    You must register/login in order to see the link.


    ...Not sure how you could have missed it. You can even click on the "terms and conditions" link right there and it tells you blackjack only counts for 1/2.

    It also says right on the page that you can't play restricted games until you've met the WR.


    Even so, there should have been some form of communication there. A simple email from them would have sufficed.

    Have you talked to the GL rep here?




    Welcome Bonus
    Use Promotion Code: EXUAQ

    Get a 100% Match Bonus on your first deposit up to $100 . Visit the cashier in the casino and enter promotion code EXUAQ before purchasing.

    Wager your ( deposit + bonus) 20x on any games excluding Baccarat, Craps,War and Roulette before requesting a cash-out.

    Wagers on all Blackjack Games and Tricard Poker will count at 1/2 So you will need to Wager 40x the purchase and bonus before cashing out.
     
  4. Sep 5, 2005
  5. Bruce Hamilton

    Bruce Hamilton Dormant account

    Occupation:
    What's a job?
    Location:
    USA
    When you cash out before completing the WR associated with your bonus, both your bonus and any winnings are null and void. All they have to do is return your initial deposit, and some won't even do that. You at least got to retain the bonus. :oops:
     
  6. Sep 6, 2005
  7. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Anyone: Why would the banking screen say the full balance is withdrawable if the player had not yet met the WR??? :confused:
     
  8. Sep 6, 2005
  9. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    I guess that's the way the software works. They count dollars wagered, but isn't capable of half-counting the blackjack.

    Nice of them to take all the winnings away ;-)
     
  10. Sep 6, 2005
  11. elscrabinda

    elscrabinda Experienced Member PABnorogue PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    jvonsofdmpvs
    Location:
    Oxford
    Disallowing games completely instead of just not counting them towards the wagering requirement is just another example of how clueless most casino operators are about how their whole operation works.

    The player did not gain any advantage from playing these games. However well he was playing them, whether it be roulette, blackjack or even pontoon, the casino was making money on his play (on average). He was choosing to gamble just for the sake of it, knowing that it wouldn't count towards any WR. To then seize all his winnings like this is nonsense.
     
  12. Sep 6, 2005
  13. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    My personal favorite is that roulette is disallowed from fulfilling the WR.

    If I was in the casino business, I think I'd want people playing on the game with the highest house advantage.

    Regardless, this player broke a rule in the T&C. From the casinos point of view, that's all the reason they need not to pay him.

    The fact that the rule exists not to protect the casinos business, but rather only to provide the player with an opportunity to have his winnings voided, is irrelevant.
     
  14. Sep 6, 2005
  15. Ivy29

    Ivy29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Internet Time Waster
    Location:
    Midwest
    Roulette

    The reason they don't allow Roulette and Craps games usually is because you could bet on red & black, and except for the occasional green hit, you'd be even on every spin. Same deal with craps. I'm sure bonus abusers caused that exclusion.
     
  16. Sep 6, 2005
  17. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    If you bet on red and black every spin, you have an expected loss of 5.28%, the same as every other roulette bet (exception being the even worse 0/00/1/2/3 bet). More than 10 times worse than your average blackjack game.

    If you bet on pass/don't pass in craps, you have an expected loss just north of 1%. Better, but still worse than blackjack.


    Disallowing craps might be reasonable, since you could potentially create a +EV situation by just betting the pass/don't pass. There isn't one bonus out there that is +EV with even betting red/black at roulette.

    Thus I'll maintain that disallowing roulette is a demonstration of the casino operator's gross lack of understanding of the mathematics of gamblilng.
     
  18. Sep 6, 2005
  19. ScurvyDog

    ScurvyDog Dormant account

    Location:
    Austin
    This post demonstrates your gross lack of understanding of the mathematics of profitable bonus play.
     
  20. Sep 6, 2005
  21. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    Please explain.

    Because I sure can't name one bonus that is +EV when wagering on a game with a 5.28% house advantage. The only thing you gain making even wagers is the ability to set your standard deviation at exactly 0. Regardless, anyone with a long term view would take the game with a substantially lower house advantage in exchange for a higher standard deviation (within reason).

    But I must be wrong about something ... Please tell me where I'm wrong.
     
  22. Sep 6, 2005
  23. jpsartre

    jpsartre Dormant account

    Location:
    Denmark
    If you have to post arrogant replies like the one above, at least get your facts straight. Bpb got it exactly right - in most cases there is absolutely no reason to exclude roulette. Say you recieve a $100 bonus on a $100 deposit and have to play 20 times your deposit and bonus. Playing single-zero roulette and betting both black and red would leave you, on average, with $92. Not exactly good deal, is it? True, if the wager-requirements are low enough the strategy would almost certainly provide a profit every time but it would still be a profit a lot lower than if BJ was played....
     
  24. Sep 6, 2005
  25. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    Actually the situation is more complicated. You might be able to improve your expectation by first betting your whole bankroll on a single number in roulette and then playing the WR on allowed games if you win. This is especially true for sticky, phantom bonuses or slots only bonuses with high WR. This is, of course, a highly risky strategy.
     
  26. Sep 6, 2005
  27. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    True, but there are better games to go for the double up. I rarely see Pai Gow disallowed, and you can try to double up there for around 2.5% HA. Or Casino War for that matter.

    I see what you mean about betting a single number to try to jump out to a huge lead before grinding out the wagering requirement on an alllowed game. But wouldn't your expectation be higher by betting half your roll on BJ (leaving you with enough for one double/split) repeatedly until you hit a target or bust? I always assumed that was the best way to go, given the 10x difference in house advantage between the two games.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2005
  28. Sep 6, 2005
  29. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    BJ is not good for doubling up because if you bet your whole bankroll you won't have money left for doubles and splits.
     
  30. Sep 7, 2005
  31. Wagerjunction

    Wagerjunction Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Aff Manager
    Location:
    London
    Game Play

    Hello Guys

    My apologies for the late response ,i am moving house which is a major trial here in the British Isles and ttrying to take some leave -lol

    I will take an in depth look at this when i get back to the office but from what i have been told the excluded games were played and my terms nd conditions leave no doubt as to what happens if you do play these games.

    I have not got the full story but the Wagering is quite clear as well .

    The software does have this issue in it that we are working on with RTG to ensure that issues like this become a thing of the past

    Give me until Monday please and i am sure i can resolve this situation to everyones satisfaction .

    Regards
    Greg
     
  32. Sep 7, 2005
  33. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Without checking your T&C's I assume these games are OK after the player has completed the WR?
    You have admitted there is a problem with the software which made the player THINK he had completed the WR!
    Therefore I hope your satisfactory resolution takes these two factors into account and the player gets to keep all his dosh! ;)

    The Roulette thing (one of my favourite subjects!): It is not beyond the capabilities of the software writers to prevent the player placing so-called 'even-money' bets. I have seen some online casinos that already have this built in.
    But anyway - why not just bet on Red every spin? The overall average result will be exactly the same as betting on both colours together!
    If I ran an online casino: Roulette definitely allowed in WR <rubs hands & smiles!> :D
     
  34. Sep 8, 2005
  35. Wagerjunction

    Wagerjunction Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Aff Manager
    Location:
    London
    Problem With the Software

    Kasino King i think you are getting a little bit ahead of yourself here .Where did i admit to a problem with the software .You are always harping on about issues with software and i am going to reiterate ,every single piece of software on the planet has limitations.

    The limitations on the RTG software is essentially if we impose different wagering on the same coupon code it fails to take into account the increased wagering.All that i will do from now in is have a Blackjack promotion in place with a different coupon code.SO it will be either or .Once you have met the WR then you will be able to play on any game at all.

    I am investigating and as per my post if he has honoured everything then we will do right by the player -that is what my partners do.They have been around for a long time and will be in business for a long time to come.

    Duane - I am getting your logs ,we are looking at this and we will have a resolution for you very shortly.

    What does annoy me is that the client is stating that emails of his have not been answered .We have just put in a new piece of software and obviously there are teething issues.

    Duane do you have any reference or tracking number for me so that i can get this looked into as well.

    Best Regards
    Greg
     
  36. Sep 13, 2005
  37. elscrabinda

    elscrabinda Experienced Member PABnorogue PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    jvonsofdmpvs
    Location:
    Oxford
    Any news on this?
     
  38. Sep 13, 2005
  39. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    In your previous post!!

    And then you re-confirmed there is a 'problem' again in your last post!

    I'm not 'having a go', but software that tells the player he has met the WR, when in fact he hasn't, is not right, is it??
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2005

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