Geisha Lounge

[Dauan]

Hello.

I deposited 100$ into Geisha Lounge, received the bonus and went on to playing Black Jack with em..

It went alright, after almost 4000 played, i was up to almost a grand in chips.
when i passed the 4000 mark, i checked in my withdrawal menu, and it said that my money was withdrawable. I proceeded not to withdraw but to play "excluded games". And in the end i had won to about 4500$. I went on to cashout. I withdrew the money.

Two days later i log on to my account to see that all my money has been refunded. I get on to the support at the same time as i start playing with the money. As i spoke to support i played and won another 400 odd dollars.
The support said i had not played enough and my winnings on excluded games were void. On the bonus page it says that playthru is 20x, it says nothing about 40x for blackjack, and does not refer to any other T&C.

I can appreciate that i was not playing it to 40x, and thats not whats botherring me. What is bothering me is:

• They cancelled my withdrawal without even emailing me
• They reset my account to original buy in + bonus amount, should not my amount be reset to the value where i started playing excluded games
• All of this has happened without any correspondence with me, i was just ignored

Is this all correct. Please advise

 

[winbig]

Says right on the page for promotions that it's 40x for bj. :

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

...Not sure how you could have missed it. You can even click on the "terms and conditions" link right there and it tells you blackjack only counts for 1/2.

It also says right on the page that you can't play restricted games until you've met the WR.


Even so, there should have been some form of communication there. A simple email from them would have sufficed.

Have you talked to the GL rep here?




Welcome Bonus
Use Promotion Code: EXUAQ

Get a 100% Match Bonus on your first deposit up to $100 . Visit the cashier in the casino and enter promotion code EXUAQ before purchasing.

Wager your ( deposit + bonus) 20x on any games excluding Baccarat, Craps,War and Roulette before requesting a cash-out.

Wagers on all Blackjack Games and Tricard Poker will count at 1/2 So you will need to Wager 40x the purchase and bonus before cashing out.

 

[Bruce Hamilton]

They reset my account to original buy in + bonus amount, should not my amount be reset to the value where i started playing excluded games

When you cash out before completing the WR associated with your bonus, both your bonus and any winnings are null and void. All they have to do is return your initial deposit, and some won't even do that. You at least got to retain the bonus.

 

[KasinoKing]

...
when i passed the 4000 mark, i checked in my withdrawal menu, and it said that my money was withdrawable.

Anyone: Why would the banking screen say the full balance is withdrawable if the player had not yet met the WR???

 

[thelawnet]

Anyone: Why would the banking screen say the full balance is withdrawable if the player had not yet met the WR???

I guess that's the way the software works. They count dollars wagered, but isn't capable of half-counting the blackjack.

Nice of them to take all the winnings away ;-)

 

[elscrabinda]

Disallowing games completely instead of just not counting them towards the wagering requirement is just another example of how clueless most casino operators are about how their whole operation works.

The player did not gain any advantage from playing these games. However well he was playing them, whether it be roulette, blackjack or even pontoon, the casino was making money on his play (on average). He was choosing to gamble just for the sake of it, knowing that it wouldn't count towards any WR. To then seize all his winnings like this is nonsense.

 

[bpb]

Disallowing games completely instead of just not counting them towards the wagering requirement is just another example of how clueless most casino operators are about how their whole operation works.

The player did not gain any advantage from playing these games. However well he was playing them, whether it be roulette, blackjack or even pontoon, the casino was making money on his play (on average). He was choosing to gamble just for the sake of it, knowing that it wouldn't count towards any WR. To then seize all his winnings like this is nonsense.

My personal favorite is that roulette is disallowed from fulfilling the WR.

If I was in the casino business, I think I'd want people playing on the game with the highest house advantage.

Regardless, this player broke a rule in the T&C. From the casinos point of view, that's all the reason they need not to pay him.

The fact that the rule exists not to protect the casinos business, but rather only to provide the player with an opportunity to have his winnings voided, is irrelevant.

 

[Ivy29]

Roulette

The reason they don't allow Roulette and Craps games usually is because you could bet on red & black, and except for the occasional green hit, you'd be even on every spin. Same deal with craps. I'm sure bonus abusers caused that exclusion.

 

[bpb]

The reason they don't allow Roulette and Craps games usually is because you could bet on red & black, and except for the occasional green hit, you'd be even on every spin. Same deal with craps. I'm sure bonus abusers caused that exclusion.

If you bet on red and black every spin, you have an expected loss of 5.28%, the same as every other roulette bet (exception being the even worse 0/00/1/2/3 bet). More than 10 times worse than your average blackjack game.

If you bet on pass/don't pass in craps, you have an expected loss just north of 1%. Better, but still worse than blackjack.


Disallowing craps might be reasonable, since you could potentially create a +EV situation by just betting the pass/don't pass. There isn't one bonus out there that is +EV with even betting red/black at roulette.

Thus I'll maintain that disallowing roulette is a demonstration of the casino operator's gross lack of understanding of the mathematics of gamblilng.

 

[ScurvyDog]

If you bet on red and black every spin, you have an expected loss of 5.28%, the same as every other roulette bet (exception being the even worse 0/00/1/2/3 bet). More than 10 times worse than your average blackjack game.

If you bet on pass/don't pass in craps, you have an expected loss just north of 1%. Better, but still worse than blackjack.


Disallowing craps might be reasonable, since you could potentially create a +EV situation by just betting the pass/don't pass. There isn't one bonus out there that is +EV with even betting red/black at roulette.

Thus I'll maintain that disallowing roulette is a demonstration of the casino operator's gross lack of understanding of the mathematics of gamblilng.

This post demonstrates your gross lack of understanding of the mathematics of profitable bonus play.

 

[bpb]

This post demonstrates your gross lack of understanding of the mathematics of profitable bonus play.

Please explain.

Because I sure can't name one bonus that is +EV when wagering on a game with a 5.28% house advantage. The only thing you gain making even wagers is the ability to set your standard deviation at exactly 0. Regardless, anyone with a long term view would take the game with a substantially lower house advantage in exchange for a higher standard deviation (within reason).

But I must be wrong about something ... Please tell me where I'm wrong.

 

[jpsartre]

This post demonstrates your gross lack of understanding of the mathematics of profitable bonus play.

If you have to post arrogant replies like the one above, at least get your facts straight. Bpb got it exactly right - in most cases there is absolutely no reason to exclude roulette. Say you recieve a $100 bonus on a $100 deposit and have to play 20 times your deposit and bonus. Playing single-zero roulette and betting both black and red would leave you, on average, with $92. Not exactly good deal, is it? True, if the wager-requirements are low enough the strategy would almost certainly provide a profit every time but it would still be a profit a lot lower than if BJ was played....

 

[GrandMaster]

Actually the situation is more complicated. You might be able to improve your expectation by first betting your whole bankroll on a single number in roulette and then playing the WR on allowed games if you win. This is especially true for sticky, phantom bonuses or slots only bonuses with high WR. This is, of course, a highly risky strategy.

 

[bpb]

Actually the situation is more complicated. You might be able to improve your expectation by first betting your whole bankroll on a single number in roulette and then playing the WR on allowed games if you win. This is especially true for sticky, phantom bonuses or slots only bonuses with high WR. This is, of course, a highly risky strategy.

True, but there are better games to go for the double up. I rarely see Pai Gow disallowed, and you can try to double up there for around 2.5% HA. Or Casino War for that matter.

I see what you mean about betting a single number to try to jump out to a huge lead before grinding out the wagering requirement on an alllowed game. But wouldn't your expectation be higher by betting half your roll on BJ (leaving you with enough for one double/split) repeatedly until you hit a target or bust? I always assumed that was the best way to go, given the 10x difference in house advantage between the two games.

 

[GrandMaster]

BJ is not good for doubling up because if you bet your whole bankroll you won't have money left for doubles and splits.

 

[Wagerjunction]

Game Play

Hello Guys

My apologies for the late response ,i am moving house which is a major trial here in the British Isles and ttrying to take some leave -lol

I will take an in depth look at this when i get back to the office but from what i have been told the excluded games were played and my terms nd conditions leave no doubt as to what happens if you do play these games.

I have not got the full story but the Wagering is quite clear as well .

The software does have this issue in it that we are working on with RTG to ensure that issues like this become a thing of the past

Give me until Monday please and i am sure i can resolve this situation to everyones satisfaction .

Regards
Greg

 

[KasinoKing]

I will take an in depth look at this when i get back to the office but from what i have been told the excluded games were played and my terms nd conditions leave no doubt as to what happens if you do play these games.
...
The software does have this issue in it that we are working on with RTG to ensure that issues like this become a thing of the past

Give me until Monday please and i am sure i can resolve this situation to everyones satisfaction .
Greg

Without checking your T&C's I assume these games are OK after the player has completed the WR?
You have admitted there is a problem with the software which made the player THINK he had completed the WR!
Therefore I hope your satisfactory resolution takes these two factors into account and the player gets to keep all his dosh!

The Roulette thing (one of my favourite subjects!): It is not beyond the capabilities of the software writers to prevent the player placing so-called 'even-money' bets. I have seen some online casinos that already have this built in.
But anyway - why not just bet on Red every spin? The overall average result will be exactly the same as betting on both colours together!
If I ran an online casino: Roulette definitely allowed in WR <rubs hands & smiles!>

 

[Wagerjunction]

Problem With the Software

Kasino King i think you are getting a little bit ahead of yourself here .Where did i admit to a problem with the software .You are always harping on about issues with software and i am going to reiterate ,every single piece of software on the planet has limitations.

The limitations on the RTG software is essentially if we impose different wagering on the same coupon code it fails to take into account the increased wagering.All that i will do from now in is have a Blackjack promotion in place with a different coupon code.SO it will be either or .Once you have met the WR then you will be able to play on any game at all.

I am investigating and as per my post if he has honoured everything then we will do right by the player -that is what my partners do.They have been around for a long time and will be in business for a long time to come.

Duane - I am getting your logs ,we are looking at this and we will have a resolution for you very shortly.

What does annoy me is that the client is stating that emails of his have not been answered .We have just put in a new piece of software and obviously there are teething issues.

Duane do you have any reference or tracking number for me so that i can get this looked into as well.

Best Regards
Greg

 

[elscrabinda]

Any news on this?

 

[KasinoKing]

Kasino King i think you are getting a little bit ahead of yourself here .Where did i admit to a problem with the software .

In your previous post!!

The software does have this issue in it that we are working on with RTG to ensure that issues like this become a thing of the past

And then you re-confirmed there is a 'problem' again in your last post!

The limitations on the RTG software is essentially if we impose different wagering on the same coupon code it fails to take into account the increased wagering.All that i will do from now in is have a Blackjack promotion in place with a different coupon code.SO it will be either or .Once you have met the WR then you will be able to play on any game at all.

I'm not 'having a go', but software that tells the player he has met the WR, when in fact he hasn't, is not right, is it??

 

[Expertx]

you are lucky,they send your deposit back to your casino account.some casinos void it if you cashouted before meeting wagering requirements.

about wagering bonuses in roulette;goldenriviera allows it.

 

[jpsartre]

I'm not 'having a go', but software that tells the player he has met the WR, when in fact he hasn't, is not right, is it??

You might as well look at it this way: The software tells the player that he has met the WR provided he played games without special restrictions. It states clearly in the terms and conditions that BJ only counts 1/2. I agree that it would be better if the software could take that into account but just because it cannot does not mean that the software is malfunctioning or 'not right'.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Just spotted this one and once again it looks like the casino is trying to steal a players winnings when they have no right to do so.

One again GrandAcesGeisha WHERE in your terms does it allow you to steal a players winnings when they don't wager correctly?

I cannot see this anywhere, and must say it's very unethical anyway. What should be done is the winnings returned to the casino account and the correct wagering should be completed before withdrawal.

BTW the problem with the system not being able to take into account the issue with the double wagering for BJ can easily be rectified. Just have two different coupons, one for normal games and one for BJ. I've seen many other RTG's operate this way and then you don't end up with situations like this.

 

[Dauan]

Hi everybody!

To this date i have not receveived a single email about the situation.
However, when i logged in today there was a 100$ extra in my account.
I dont know if this is a consolation prize or something?

Maybe you know mr GrandAcesGeisha?

 

[elscrabinda]

Thats funny- GrandAcesGeisha told us on the other thread that this had been resolved. Putting $100 in someones account who you have stolen much much more from is not resolving it.