Gaming Analysis Group

[Harry_BKK]

I think that was from Lockinlove when she used to play it.

The numbers are from JFTW's Rainbrew slot. Quite an interesting reel layout and the first from JFTW I will try for real money. Was rather entertaining when i played in demo mode.

 

[dunover]

Well, you decide

View attachment 94080

Sorry but that's complete BS. 1360 max win in 224bn spins? If that were really the case and it was tested after SG platform intro then it would have really been bacofoil all round....


EDIT - Sorry, for some reason I got it into my head this was about Bonanza, ignore the above!

 

[bebo67]

Well, you decide

View attachment 94080

Wowzers!

 

[Harry_BKK]

Sorry but that's complete BS. 1360 max win in 224bn spins? If that were really the case and it was tested after SG platform intro then it would have really been bacofoil all round....


EDIT - Sorry, for some reason I got it into my head this was about Bonanza, ignore the above!

I though it is running on the Quickfire platform.

Here's is the complete part from their game sheet:

 

[bebo67]

I though it is running on the Quickfire platform.

Here's is the complete part from their game sheet:

View attachment 94082

I don't know if I missed it, but where did you get that info,and can you get it on all games?

 

[Harry_BKK]

I don't know if I missed it, but where did you get that info,and can you get it on all games?

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Others are not that forthcoming with details. Mostly, you need to register as an affiliate site to get access.

 

[dunover]

I am playing this right now and it's dreadful. You get a 'top' or 'bottom' wild on reels 2 and 4 respectively which then triggers a horizontal reel above or below which may or may not add wilds and therefore increase ways. I think the programme that fired 224bn results into this was lucky to get one of over 1000x. You get 1125 ways in FS so it must've been in those.

 

[Supababe]

For those not selected (especially those super talented and smart members) I went job hunting for lol.
What a range of positions I found.

How about this one?

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[bebo67]

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Others are not that forthcoming with details. Mostly, you need to register as an affiliate site to get access.

Thanks!

 

[Reelsoffun]

I have played this for real and actually I like it, can think of hundreds that are worse, its probably a low/med to med variance slot. so far I would say its one of their best games, but im probably bias as im running at way over 100% payout.

I Also had a long run of wins giving 50x some only several spins apart, but max was only 60x on a feature.

Im sure i will match your view soon enough lol but for now its a gentle slot for just having some plays on. I think low rollers will like it TBH.

 

[mack341]

I though it is running on the Quickfire platform.

Here's is the complete part from their game sheet:

View attachment 94082

I think this sort of useful information about odds should be made available in the help pages of all games alongside the rtp to encourage responsible gambling and realistic expectations.

 

[Reelsoffun]

I think this sort of useful information about odds should be made available in the help pages of all games alongside the rtp to encourage responsible gambling and realistic expectations.

Totally agree its what i emailled to the UKGC about 5 years ago!

 

[Jono777]

Totally agree its what i emailled to the UKGC about 5 years ago!

Only 5 more to go then before you get your reply, fingers crossed

 

[mack341]

Totally agree its what i emailled to the UKGC about 5 years ago!

yeah its only fair, the slot maker, casino and regulator know the odds but don't think the player who is funding the whole thing should.

And then the powerful UKGC periodically bleats about responsible gambling, issuing fines hither and thither, when even if some odds information was only introduced on a sample of games to begin with, perhaps one from each developer SG netent etc... regulation that benefits the player and assists responsible gambling will have been improved overnight.

 

[Lemon]

For me, playing a new slot is like unwrapping a present; most of the fun is finding out about the game and trying to learn what the profile is like, how often certain things occur and what the percentage contribution is towards parts of the game. No game producer is ever going to willingly hand over info like that because the maths is usually fundamental to whether the game is successful or not. You can easily copy a theme, or style of music, or a particular feature on a successful game but it all counts for nothing if you don't get the maths right. Game producers should never be made to turn over info like that; 1-5 stars for volatility is enough and the player can pay to find out the rest for themselves - that's what gambling is about after all. If Cadbury were ordered to publish their chocolate recipe, every bar of chocolate from every confectioner from then on would taste like fucking Dairy Milk and there would be no variety at all. The industry is bad enough for copying each other as it is. The maths should always be sacred.

 

[mack341]

I bet the slot makers will know the odds approximately of other makers games, they can run simulator software and analyse the results and will be able to determine how the rtp is distributed and the mathematics and stats at the end of the day. Its only the player who is kept in the dark, you could still do as you do and ignore odds info in the help pages if that is the way you like to play.

 

[lotusch]

For me, playing a new slot is like unwrapping a present; most of the fun is finding out about the game and trying to learn what the profile is like, how often certain things occur and what the percentage contribution is towards parts of the game. No game producer is ever going to willingly hand over info like that because the maths is usually fundamental to whether the game is successful or not. You can easily copy a theme, or style of music, or a particular feature on a successful game but it all counts for nothing if you don't get the maths right. Game producers should never be made to turn over info like that; 1-5 stars for volatility is enough and the player can pay to find out the rest for themselves - that's what gambling is about after all. If Cadbury were ordered to publish their chocolate recipe, every bar of chocolate from every confectioner from then on would taste like fucking Dairy Milk and there would be no variety at all. The industry is bad enough for copying each other as it is. The maths should always be sacred.

Very well said.
And I am all for 1-5 stars ranking when it comes to volatility.
Some slots providers already use a system like that.
Correct me if I am wrong but I think it was Pragmatic that has these lightning symbols from 1-5 to show the volatility of the slot.

 

[bebo67]

I think this sort of useful information about odds should be made available in the help pages of all games alongside the rtp to encourage responsible gambling and realistic expectations.

Agreed!

 

[nikantw]

I though it is running on the Quickfire platform.

Here's is the complete part from their game sheet:

View attachment 94082

Can we please have that kind of info for every slot?
Dare I ask it for Bonanza?

 

[Reelsoffun]

For me, playing a new slot is like unwrapping a present; most of the fun is finding out about the game and trying to learn what the profile is like, how often certain things occur and what the percentage contribution is towards parts of the game. No game producer is ever going to willingly hand over info like that because the maths is usually fundamental to whether the game is successful or not. You can easily copy a theme, or style of music, or a particular feature on a successful game but it all counts for nothing if you don't get the maths right. Game producers should never be made to turn over info like that; 1-5 stars for volatility is enough and the player can pay to find out the rest for themselves - that's what gambling is about after all. If Cadbury were ordered to publish their chocolate recipe, every bar of chocolate from every confectioner from then on would taste like fucking Dairy Milk and there would be no variety at all. The industry is bad enough for copying each other as it is. The maths should always be sacred.

While i agree with that in some ways, I dont in others. Yes they shouldnt be forced to hand over all the math etc but key things like max win should be.

No way should slot providers be able to brag about win up to 8000x bet etc if its a 1 in a 20 billion chance thats just BS.

So I think as a bare minimum max win or say 1000x bet wins should have a frequency provided to the player to allow them to make a better choice of the games to play.

Other wise you get 3 slot games with all the same 2000x max win on a bet yet can be wildly different to the frequency how is that responsible gaming, the player would assume the chances are similar to hit on each but could be wildly different?

It would be like betting on a number on roulette where they all pay 35x bet but you dont know how many numbers are on each of the wheels.


Also if RNG's are indeed random and fair, then over time someone could just get to some of the math anyway eg ave feature hit frequency and base win % compared to jackpot / mega win frequency.

I have a speadsheet i did that gives me a full breakdown of what i won via base, feature, free spins etc it not hard, there is many of us here that will have put several hundred thousand or even 1million+ games through some slots and you would have a pretty accurate ave hit rate after that, so what have they got to fear really?

It would of course force providers to make better games that dont just give the illusion of a big win that is only millions to one chance of.

1-5 scale wouldnt be enough either these days due to games like BTG so a 1-10 scale would be more fitting i would expect, we certainly need more than low, med, high, which some providers just use.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I bet the slot makers will know the odds approximately of other makers games, they can run simulator software and analyse the results and will be able to determine how the rtp is distributed and the mathematics and stats at the end of the day. Its only the player who is kept in the dark, you could still do as you do and ignore odds info in the help pages if that is the way you like to play.

Developers move around a lot. e.g. most of the Quickspin top guys are ex-Netent people....etc.

I don't think that, except BTG's Megaways, there are a lot of secrets left. I got a ton more details from most providers but what good is it going to do to us degenerates....i mean look at Rainbrew's chance to hit a 90+ x bet win, yet people still spin the reels in the hope it will happen on the first 5 spins.

 

[mack341]

For me, playing a new slot is like unwrapping a present; most of the fun is finding out about the game and trying to learn what the profile is like, how often certain things occur and what the percentage contribution is towards parts of the game. No game producer is ever going to willingly hand over info like that because the maths is usually fundamental to whether the game is successful or not. You can easily copy a theme, or style of music, or a particular feature on a successful game but it all counts for nothing if you don't get the maths right. Game producers should never be made to turn over info like that; 1-5 stars for volatility is enough and the player can pay to find out the rest for themselves - that's what gambling is about after all. If Cadbury were ordered to publish their chocolate recipe, every bar of chocolate from every confectioner from then on would taste like fucking Dairy Milk and there would be no variety at all. The industry is bad enough for copying each other as it is. The maths should always be sacred.

what if like the game harry showed us the info on 'rainbrew', under the shiny attractive wrapping paper its clear nestles a turd, you just want to spend lots of money to find out for yourself?

 

[Lemon]

what if like the game harry showed us the info on 'rainbrew', under the shiny attractive wrapping paper its clear nestles a turd, you just want to spend lots of money to find out for yourself?

What's a turd to someone might be an enjoyable game to someone else. Imagine spending 6 months working on a game and then having to state exactly what the profile is and alienating a slice of the whole player base before they've even committed any money? For a lot of new games the first week or two when it goes live can be very lucrative because of all the players giving it a try and seeing whether they like it or not. If you deny a new game this then game producers will never bother trying anything new or that has a learning curve, and we'll all end up playing clones of Book of Ra from each provider. Every new game deserves that period where players are required to find out for themselves if they like the game. There has to be a line between player protection and nanny-state in my opinion.

 

[Reelsoffun]

What's a turd to someone might be an enjoyable game to someone else. Imagine spending 6 months working on a game and then having to state exactly what the profile is and alienating a slice of the whole player base before they've even committed any money? For a lot of new games the first week or two when it goes live can be very lucrative because of all the players giving it a try and seeing whether they like it or not. If you deny a new game this then game producers will never bother trying anything new or that has a learning curve, and we'll all end up playing clones of Book of Ra from each provider. Every new game deserves that period where players are required to find out for themselves if they like the game. There has to be a line between player protection and nanny-state in my opinion.

Then you get players trying all these new games, finding out they are all "Dreadful" < (word on loan from dunover) as he puts it and after a dozen games in a row decide to give up all new slots for good, yay! Great plan

 

[Lemon]

No way should slot providers be able to brag about win up to 8000x bet etc if its a 1 in a 20 billion chance thats just BS.

<snip>

1-5 scale wouldnt be enough either these days due to games like BTG so a 1-10 scale would be more fitting i would expect, we certainly need more than low, med, high, which some providers just use.

Some good points there and as far as max win statements go - I would agree with you there 100%. Secrets of the Stones, win up to 3475000 coins or whatever it is? You've more chance of going down the beach and picking the right grain of sand. The player is better off looking at the paytable and the game rules and after a few sessions they should be able to infer what is realistically possible. Statements like the above feel like desperate attempts at selling hopes and dreams that will never materialise.

A 1-5 scale could also be expanded slightly, I would certainly agree with those sentiments, but one game company's rating scale might differ from another. What are the units of measurement? Standard deviation? It's unlikely each producer's idea of a 5-out-of-5 game will be the same, unless there's an industry standard they all use.

Asking for hit rates of certain prize ranges would almost certainly be met by resistance from most game developers. A lot of the fun and excitement is in trying new games for yourself with no preconceptions.