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Game malfunction claim by casino

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by iamkenly, Jan 25, 2005.

    Jan 25, 2005
  1. iamkenly

    iamkenly Dormant account

    Location:
    Houston, Tx
    Hello to all,
    I am a player at World Wide Vegas casino and joined last week. I made 3 $200 deposits. I lost the first two deposits. I was succesful with the third deposit playing craps. Over a 3 day period, I won over $21,000. I was betting very high stakes as my balance grew over the 3 days with some bets as large as $900/roll. After several cashouts, my account was disabled and the casino said they were investigating a game malfunction. That was 4 days ago. They have stayed in touch with me, however, my response to them was that I did not notice any game problems or malfunctions over the 3 day period. In fact, I was winning and losing all along the way. I had swings up and down for thousands of dollars. I even had to reverse several cashouts after losing what was in my balance. They have informed me that their software provider is looking into the matter and will let me know when they have a determination. My account is still disabled and they have disabled their craps game as well on their site. Do I have any recourse in this matter? and how should this be handled? Are all of my bets null and void and am I just at their mercy? Are all 3 days going to be wiped out, b/c I also played other games that I also did well at? How are these issues usually handled? I still claim that there was no game malfunction, certainly not one that was noticeable or abused by me.
    Please help advise me on this matter.
    Thank you
     
  2. Jan 25, 2005
  3. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    Hi Iamkenly:

    Welcome to the Forum. How long has this matter been under review by the software provider? The best thing that I can tell you to do is to memorialize everything by emails and/or (if possible) by screenshots if you can.

    This matter may prove to be the casino just making sure things are straight. But in the interim you should do everything to protect yourself. Have a good one.
     
  4. Jan 26, 2005
  5. iamkenly

    iamkenly Dormant account

    Location:
    Houston, Tx
    Casino malfunction claim

    Thanks for your advise. I was locked out last Thursday , so I would say the software provider has been looking into this for about 3 days. I have saved all my e-mails to and from them as well as taken some screen shots of where they backed all my winnings out before disabling me. I sure hope they do the right thing!!!! any more advise or previous experiences with matters like this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
     
  6. Jan 26, 2005
  7. paul02085

    paul02085 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Fishing :)
    Location:
    USA
  8. Jan 26, 2005
  9. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Cipher is the best person to advise you on this because he assisted another player with a similar problem. Heed his advice and remember that you can insist on being provided with your game logs, too.

    WW Vegas was powered by Parley Entertainment-DCEG last time I looked them over (they were at one time using GSS, who were constantly in trouble with the player community)

    The operator was an outfit called Azul Electrico SA out of Costa Rica (a *jurisdiction* not famous for enforcing standards at online casinos)

    Your winnings are significant, and that always seems to trigger a reaction from lower end casinos.

    Good luck with this incident.
     
  10. Feb 9, 2005
  11. iamkenly

    iamkenly Dormant account

    Location:
    Houston, Tx
    Still no payment

    Hello all,

    I still have not received anything from World Wide Vegas except "We are awaiting a determination from our software provider" It has been nearly a month since they took over $20,000 out of my account after 3 days of gambling with them. I was told over two weeks ago that they hoped to hear something that day. But, nothing. I have submitted a PIB to Bryan, Anyone one else that can help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you,
    Robert Kenly Musch
    iamkenly
     
  12. Feb 9, 2005
  13. wanda5

    wanda5 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    mom
    Location:
    lala land
    Hi Robert

    I am so sorry thats happened, I cant imagine what you are going through HOW FRICKIN DISAPPOINTING!!!
    Its great that you came here...these people are awesome and can really help in tight situations. I felt totally sick to my stomach when I read your post ! PLEASE keep us up on what happens.
    BTW, were neighbors!

    Best of luck,
    Wanda



     
  14. Feb 10, 2005
  15. largeeyes

    largeeyes Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    North America
    This is one of JOhn's casinos over at Gone Gambling. He seems to keep the rift raft off, so hopefully this casino will do the right thing and pay up.
     
  16. Feb 10, 2005
  17. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Thanks for that information, Largeeyes - I'll bring this to GG's attention.

    Just yesterday I sent a FOURTH chaser to Parlay Entertainment as we have yet to receive an explanation from them on this. I have now started in on their (DCEG) parent.
     
  18. Feb 10, 2005
  19. greedygirl

    greedygirl Purveyor of Onions CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Marketing & Advertising
    Location:
    Someplace other than where you're at
    Hi iamkenly--

    Sorry to hear about the troubles you're having. To be honest, I'm a bit surprised, as WWV has been around since the dark ages of online gambling, and with few troubles (that I'm aware of).

    Generally, GoneGambling has a policy of assisting only our own members (Bryan does a wonderful job settling things!), however, as Jetset has brought this to my attention, I'll see what I can do to get things sorted out for you.

    Please drop an email to me with all pertinent correspondance to: This email is not visible to you.
     
  20. Feb 10, 2005
  21. iamkenly

    iamkenly Dormant account

    Location:
    Houston, Tx
    Thanks for all your help

    Thank you all for your help with this. I will followup as soon as I hear something new from WWV. It is still being reviewed by their software provider, but I expect that will be over soon. Their stance is that I somehow manipulated the game or took advantage of some malfunction. I did no such thing. I hope to have good news from them when the software company gets back with them.
    Thanks again for your help

    iamkenly
     
  22. Feb 10, 2005
  23. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    QUOTE Their stance is that I somehow manipulated the game or took advantage of some malfunction. UNQUOTE

    That is a serious accusation, and one that demands very specific proof. But I still cannot understand why the software provider should be taking such a long time to "make a determination" and provide the evidence backing it.

    You're in good hands with GG from GG and I would recommend that you accept her invitation to contact her with the nitty gritty.

    Please keep the forum informed as I am sure many people will be following this.
     
  24. Feb 10, 2005
  25. Freudian

    Freudian Dormant account

    Location:
    europe
    Don't know if this is the case here, but I suspect many online casinos are seriously underfunded. This sounds like a desperation move on part of the casino.
     
  26. Feb 10, 2005
  27. Freudian

    Freudian Dormant account

    Location:
    europe
    I forgot: Why on earth should the player bear the full risk of the casinos software malfunctioning? Wouldn't simple logic (and I suspect the law in most countries, but the onlinecasino business operate outside normal law) have the operator bear the risk of their software malfuctioning?
     
  28. Feb 10, 2005
  29. 555YY

    555YY Dormant account

    Occupation:
    "":".."|
    Location:
    PA

    absolutely! if a blackjack dealer at a landbased casino accidently exposed his hole card and you vary your strategy accordingly, no casino in the world would use that as an excuse to refuse payment
     
  30. Feb 10, 2005
  31. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Hi Freudian,

    With software, I don't think it works this way. Whenever you agree to use any software - and this goes from Microgaming to Microsoft - there is always a disclaimer somewhere in the user agreements that washes the provider from liabilities if there are malfunctions. That's a bit of a generality, but it's pretty much true.

    The same goes for Vegas. If you win x amount on a slot machine, and it turned out that the slots malfunctioned, you probably won't get paid either.

    Bummer, but that's that way it usually goes.
     
  32. Feb 10, 2005
  33. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Bryan is right, but a lot of the time you find that the law takes a "general" stance on these issues and in an instance such as this, should it turn out to be a malfunction in the software, you'd probably find there are lines of appeal that would be fairer to the player.

    Personally, i think you'll find it is NOT a software malfunction and they'll turn round and offer to pay the player here - my hunch is in installments ;) - as if the software manufacturer admits to dodgy software, that's pretty much going to be the end of their business IMHO.

    Cheers

    Simmo!
     
  34. Feb 10, 2005
  35. Freudian

    Freudian Dormant account

    Location:
    europe
    Exactly. Often clauses that violate basic principles of contract law are deemed as not valid (even if the customer clicked an "I agree" box). I think the casinos would have a hard time winning a case like this in any western country. But since they are strategically situated in banana republics, it's not like it matters.
     
  36. Feb 10, 2005
  37. 555YY

    555YY Dormant account

    Occupation:
    "":".."|
    Location:
    PA
    "software malfunction voids all WINNINGS"

    this imo is total b.s

    why is it that only if you WIN can they invoke that rule?

    why can i invoke this and get my money back the next time i lose big in online blackjack? since i'm certain there was 'software malfuntion' (ie: rigged)?

    so if there was a software "malfuntion" only the player's WINNINGS get forfeited?? What about his losses? What about all the other players' losses at craps in WWVegas? Shouldn't they get their money back also since "malfunction voids ALL play"?

    What's stopping a rogue casino from DELIBERATELY using a BUGGY software that they know to have malfunctions? The game would be still played to collect losses from player until such time as someone WINS BIG. Now they can take away those winnings and claim the software had bugs. They can even show proof!! Hey you know that sh***y software that we used for 5 years to rape players out of millions of dollars? Yea, it turns out that it had some bugs so now I guess i don't have to pay your 5 digit win....

    note: i'm not saying that there definitely was a malfuntion in the software, but EVEN if there was, this escape clause ought not to be utilized unless they agree to REFUND ALL losses incurred at craps by ALL of the players who ever played the game at WW Vegas.
     
  38. Feb 10, 2005
  39. 555YY

    555YY Dormant account

    Occupation:
    "":".."|
    Location:
    PA
    let's use another analogy

    let's say i'm a casino owner and wrote my own blackjack software. But in my code I decided skew the odds a little bit toward the house. it could be as simple as slightly weighting the small cards over face cards/aces. the extra weighting allows the house to gain 1 or 2% more advantage over the regular player. I use this code for the house to win more than the theoretical return under the assumption of a random game. Thousands of players have played my blackjack and lost more than what they expected to.

    now someone comes along and discovers this 'bug' in my software, and he uses this to his advantage. (say by hitting more on the borderline hands when he should've stood using basic strategy) and he beats the house out of thousands of dollars.

    when its time to cash in, i check his gameplay and realizes that he found and exploited my bug. i claim that there was a software malfuntion and thus voids him of his winnings

    now is my claim valid since:
    a.) there was a malfuntion in the sofware (ie: not totally random)
    b.) a player exploited this malfunction to his advantage?
     

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