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Non-Bonus Complaint Game error, winnings being withheld

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by rpc, Feb 10, 2015.

    Feb 10, 2015
  1. rpc

    rpc Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Designer
    Location:
    UK
    Hi,

    Could do with a bit of advice / help, not sure if I'm alright to post this here so if not please just delete!

    So basically I was playing on a casino which I wont name yet 2 weeks ago and deposited about £900, over the course of 5 days I won just under £19k. I played on numerous different video slots but won a lot on one specific one (probably about £14k). I was playing the highest stakes for pretty much the whole time (£10/£20/£40 per spin, £40 being max) and hit the bonus a few times over the course of the 5 days.

    Was very up and down (went from £12k to under £1k) but eventually withdrew it all. They process one withdrawal per day, max of £2500. They'd processed just under £4k which I'd withdrawn earlier on in the week which I've been paid, but the 7 other withdrawals I'd made were put on hold. The manager (they only have one) then contacted me and said the game I'd won a lot on had been flagged by their software to have a potential fault. She told me the math and mass model didn't add up, but then having spoken to her again yesterday she contradicted herself and said they don't have access to either the math or mass model which was a little strange given that was the reasoning she originally gave me.

    Anyway, they contacted the supplier and it is now being investigating which could take 2-3 weeks (which was 11 days ago). She said she emailed them again yesterday and they've come back and said it'll be at the end of next week before anything is found out.

    Now I find this a little strange, this game is still openly available to play on a number of other casinos, yet they are taking 3 weeks to check whether it has a fault or not? I'm not sure if this is standard procedure but it seems a little odd given that people could be winning elsewhere with this potential 'malfunction'.

    I've been talking to the manager and she reckons that the supplier would be liable for both the money the casino has already paid out to customers, and the pending withdrawals? Has anyone got any idea whether this would be the case or not? I personally didn't think it would be the case.

    I don't retain much hope of being paid out the rest but was hoping some more knowledgable people would be able to help, given its a huge amount of money for me and id just like some peace of mind if nothing else.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Feb 10, 2015
  3. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Can't offer much advice I'm sorry however I am pretty confident that all games are rigorously tested with several 'thousands of spins' before they are released for general play by casino customers.

    With this in mind I find the 'excuse' they are offering very strange indeed, especially the point you mention about the contradiction.

    Its seems to be that they may be more likely delaying so they can 'scrutinise' your play and maybe come up with a more valid reason not to pay, the fact that they've already paid some of your withdrawals then again somewhat contradicts this point so maybe there could be a flaw afterall.

    I know microgaming removed their 3 reel fruit machines a while ago for some reason so this instance could be along those sort of lnes.

    Hope you get it sorted in your favour.
     
  4. Feb 10, 2015
  5. rpc

    rpc Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Designer
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for the response!

    The reason why they've already paid part of it is because the £3750 I've received was made up of three smaller withdrawals, none of which were above £1500, meaning the support staff can approve them withdrawals. The other 7 were either £2000 or £2500, meaning a manager had to approve them.

    Its not a new game and has been around for a good while, it's by NextGen which I believe is a pretty big company? The main bit which I find slightly bizarre is that it'd take 3 weeks to test, whilst being available to play elsewhere.
     
  6. Feb 10, 2015
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That's very strange, but it has happened before because of a lack of communication between supplier and it's clients. It allows players who know there is a glitch to run around looking for casinos that haven't cottoned on yet, and they are OK until the supplier declares there is a fault and pulls the game. The 2015 CM awards detail such a case where a player found out that there was a glitch, and went around a number of casinos to exploit it due to the way the supplier mishandled the issue.

    In this case, had you withdrawn less than 1500 each time, you would probably have been paid before the casino could put a stop on the money. They would then have had to investigate the game and ask for the money back from players if they found fault.

    The supplier obviously has not yet decided a fault exists, else they would have pulled the game.

    There are a fair few games that get released with such "emptiers" in them, just like in the B&M business;)
     
  8. Feb 11, 2015
  9. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    If a game has been around a good while than I do not think there should be really any excuse, Its funny how I have come across a number of complaints in his area & why on earth should it take this long to sort out (weeks)

    Also you do you not come across any person claiming they have received a payment back as games was not working right?

    Just like when they claim that a withdrawal is on hold due to tech problems with banking, Well its funny how there is rarely a problem when depositing and when its time to cash out there seems to be a problem.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Feb 11, 2015
  11. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Wish I had a couple of 'emptiers' right now, especially as I still play B&M based slots now n again, gosh I miss them old days of refusing a couple of JP's on AWP only for it to 'throw the lot' at me :p
     
  12. Feb 11, 2015
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    You are not the only one:(

    Blame leaps in computing technology and a fall in the price of the hardware.

    They can now fit more complex games into the consoles, and they can also be monitored and managed remotely, so no more waiting for a physical chip replacement to kill off an "emptier" on the newer games. Online games can also be monitored, but it seems it's an "on demand" system, so that provided players don't get too greedy, an online "emptier" can last up to a decade:D

    What is rather concerning is when an old game suddenly develops such a fault after years of trouble free operation. Either it's because not even the best AP spotted the exploit for all those years, or the game was changed recently, and the change introduced the fault. Old games should not be getting changed, certainly not at the level of the underlying mechanics, bonus rounds, and RTP. If the faults are caused by casinos trying to get one over on players by changing the RTP or variance of an existing game, then it's only karma biting them in the ass when the change COSTS them money rather than increasing profits.
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Feb 11, 2015
  15. rpc

    rpc Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Designer
    Location:
    UK
    I was thinking about this as well, if there turned out to be a fault I'm pretty sure the casino won't be refunding money to the people who lost on the game!!

    So is there anything worth me actually doing now? I found a thread on here from a long time ago when one of the admins or someone who mediates got involved and it was a very similar situation to this and they ended up being paid fairly soon after.

    Part of me thinks it could be down to the large amount and as someone mentioned previously, it's just a delaying tactic in the hope they find another reason why I can't be paid.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Feb 11, 2015
  17. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    Certainly will not be getting no refunds back if game found they was errors, For any person, More chance hitting a few jackpots in a row,

    What I can say is take a look here


    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/faq.php?faq=cmfaq_pab

    Make sure you read all the terms, Also would be good to no what site you was playing

     
  18. Feb 11, 2015
  19. rpc

    rpc Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Designer
    Location:
    UK
    Have you got a link to the CM award bit about the guy please? Wanted to read it but can't find it!
     
  20. Feb 11, 2015
  21. AintWon1967

    AintWon1967 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Chef
    Location:
    Canada
    1 person likes this.
  22. Feb 11, 2015
  23. syntynyt

    syntynyt kuollut

    Location:
    ~
    which slot you said it was? :D
     
  24. Feb 11, 2015
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The problem is getting so greedy over a short period of time that the casinos start to realise there is something wrong.

    Fruit machine players back in the "golden era" would not empty the entire machine, even though it was possible. Instead, they would take it down to having one more jackpot or two left, and then kill the emptier. This meant the operating company were not constantly being called in because a specific machine kept on running empty and causing another player to put in a claim. This would only alert them to the possibility of a problem related specifically related to that game, and it would be reported back to the supplier for an investigation. A well managed "empty" would last for months, because the operator saw no real clues. In the end, MORE money could be made than a quick full empty over a short space of time of all available units.

    HIGHIQ could have made far more over a longer period of time by NOT harvesting an eye watering $400,000 in a "quick hit".
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Feb 11, 2015
  27. mina888

    mina888 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    IT manager
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
     
  28. Feb 11, 2015
  29. Mozaik

    Mozaik Experienced Member webby

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Holland
    How convenient for casinos to hide behind a malfunction. Either there really something is going on or it's another stalling technique hoping for you to reverse.

    I've not once ever heard of a casino or software supplier refunding customers because of malfunction or reach out to them to let them know something is wrong. Then it just get swept under the carpet or corrected behind closed doors. We as players always seem to have to pay the price eventually.
     
  30. Feb 12, 2015
  31. suzecat

    suzecat Dormant account CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    California
    Don't most casinos have a term that says "a malfunction voids all winnings?" Since the manager did not use that (yet) to take your winnings, this supplier excuse seems like they would like to find a reason to void your winnings.

    Stand your ground and DO NOT REVERSE. Keep them communicating with you until the situation is resolved.

    This is my best advice. Good luck to you.
     
    3 people like this.
  32. Feb 12, 2015
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
     
    3 people like this.
  34. Feb 12, 2015
  35. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    Where is the story I can read about thee 400k scam, cheers
     
  36. Feb 12, 2015
  37. Finn

    Finn Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Finland
    1 person likes this.
  38. Feb 12, 2015
  39. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants

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