Gambling under a fake name

[gs22]

I’m a self excluded customer but was allowed to open an account with beltway under a different name but was still allowed to use my card with my name on it I lost over £1000 I had a lot of withdrawals in this time I asked for a refund but was refused then account was closed.

Fast forward 3 months I opened another account with them under a different name and the card under my name, I deposited £300 and won £500 they refused to pay me the winnings and returned the £300 worth of deposits.

Surely the bookmakers cant have one rule for winning with a card under a different name and one rule for losing with a card under a different name.

 

[slot_zombie]

Well, you can't expect to be refunded your losses if you lose, but paid out if you win. That's not gambling that's free rolling the casino.

 

[Avernite]

Well, you can't expect to be refunded your losses if you lose, but paid out if you win. That's not gambling that's free rolling the casino.

It's more the fact they initially paid his withdraws, then changed tactics once he was in profit. Essentially freerolling him. They should simply pay out his withdrawal and close his account, or refund all of his deposits minus the withdrawals. Both casinos and players should not be able to profit from excluded players gambling.

To the OP, I wouldn't recommend trying to use multiple accounts at any casino. Simply approach it with a mindset that you'll never get paid out makes it easier to resist.

 

[Casinomeister]

The only tactic being used here is a player trying to game the system. Try doing this at a land based casino and see what happens. You'd be arrested in Nevada at least. That I know.

Not sure about other jurisdictions. But you'd be breaking the law.

As for being in the UK, there are laws here as well concerning player fraud and having multiple accounts. It's not like it was a few years ago when everyone was flying by the seat of their pants. Commit fraud at a UKGC licensed casino and you're not going to like the results - more than likely.

 

[Casinomeister]

Admin note: Changed the title to fake name - if you are using a different name than your own, then it's fake, right?

 

[jasonuk]

I’m a self excluded customer but was allowed to open an account with beltway under a different name but was still allowed to use my card with my name on it I lost over £1000 I had a lot of withdrawals in this time I asked for a refund but was refused then account was closed.

As for being in the UK, there are laws here as well concerning player fraud and having multiple accounts. It's not like it was a few years ago when everyone was flying by the seat of their pants. Commit fraud at a UKGC licensed casino and you're not going to like the results - more than likely.

While the UKGC doesn't have oversight of NI (it has its

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

), there tends to be overlap on topics such as this and thus I would expect operators to behave similarly.

The UKGC rules on this changed a few years back after fraudsters saw it as an invitation to try and freeroll the casino (basically doing what you described - sign up with "slightly different" personal details to evade any self exclusion checks, then demand their money back when they lost) - at the expense of genuine cases of self exclusion / addiction who

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

As you've repeatedly attempted to get around self-exclusion checks, in the UKGC world the burden now falls on you rather than the operator - so while you believe you should be refunded (the freeroll) under responsible gambling rules, it's much more likely to see winnings voided as a terms of service breach (which is what they've done - refunded your deposits in the second instance).

Now should the operator have picked up that your details didn't match? Possibly, but no system can be 100% perfect and fraudsters will always be looking for ways to exploit that as a result... There may be a conversation to be had - but that would be between the operator and regulator, rather than yourself.

It's more the fact they initially paid his withdraws, then changed tactics once he was in profit. Essentially freerolling him. They should simply pay out his withdrawal and close his account, or refund all of his deposits minus the withdrawals. Both casinos and players should not be able to profit from excluded players gambling.

To the OP, I wouldn't recommend trying to use multiple accounts at any casino. Simply approach it with a mindset that you'll never get paid out makes it easier to resist.

In an ideal world I'd agree - and in the past players would be made whole in a much wider range of circumstances. The problem is that fraudsters attacked this and keep pushing the envelope - such that the operator is forced into making more and more problematic decisions that either disproportionately increase their overhead, or significantly worsen the experience for everyone else (e.g. enhanced KYC at sign-up for all customers).

For example:

• Andrew Bettor (Mr A Bettor) self-excludes, his accounts are closed and money is returned to him.
• A month later, he tries to open a new account - and is rightly told he is self-excluded and unable to register. This is the system working as intended.
• Later on, "Andreew Bettor" becomes a member of the casino - all of these cases have people "accidentially" entering "slightly different details", possibly multiple times until they get one that works - and deposits as "Mr A Bettor".
  • Issue one - short of having a strict validation process for all customers (the enhanced KYC checks we all complain about), there will be a margin of error here - fraudsters are absolutely pushing this to the limit because they assume that casinos aren't going to impose that burden on all customers (although it's telling that some have started to - one site I signed up to last year wanted to do an ID KYC before I was eligible for promotions and full account access).
• Given there are one or more discrepancies between the new account holder and the SE customer, automated systems are not guaranteed to pick up they are the same person (especially if the person keeps trying until they succeed), even though it's "obviously" the same person (an angle frequently argued against the casino, because the human-readable version does look obvious).
  • Issue two - if casinos had to manually review every application, not only could players be waiting 48-72h to join but they would be asked for significantly more information on signup - this causes a significant increase in overheads for the casino and potential frustration for the customer when those documents aren't accepted and/or the request is deemed excessive or not achievable (e.g. people not on the electoral roll) and/or the manual review causes a mistake (as we inevitably will see with the new gamprotect trial).
• At this point, he starts depositing and withdrawing - the casino hasn't realised they are the same person yet so they will happily process withdrawals until a flag or threshold is raised by either party.
  • Issue three - as the fraudster has the power of timing, there is no guarantee that the casino will be able to revert to the starting position and thus is being freerolled. I agree that the casino shouldn't profit from such a situation either and those proceeds should be donated to charity at a later date.
• Finally, the flag is raised - either by the customer highlighting that they're actually the SE customer, or the casino establishing the information themselves - and the account is closed out.
  • Issue three (continued) - power of timing again, going back to the OP they initiated the process when they were £1000 down to recover their losses, but it was an automated flag (e.g. a £500 withdrawal) that snagged them in the second instance. I can think of many more examples but I'm not going to discuss them as I don't want to give ideas to them.

It absolutely sucks for genuine cases... but as we've seen with many similar threads (brand new forum accounts complaining about SE issues, often trying to freeroll the casino) the amount of SE abuse is a real problem.

[edit] oops, I didn't realise the post was getting that long... well done if you got to the end! [/edit]

 

[bebo67]

The only tactic being used here is a player trying to game the system. Try doing this at a land based casino and see what happens. You'd be arrested in Nevada at least. That I know.

Not sure about other jurisdictions. But you'd be breaking the law.

As for being in the UK, there are laws here as well concerning player fraud and having multiple accounts. It's not like it was a few years ago when everyone was flying by the seat of their pants. Commit fraud at a UKGC licensed casino and you're not going to like the results - more than likely.

I agree! His addiction is so strong that he is willing to commit fraud. This should be telling the OP something.

 

[gs22]

The first account they allowed withdrawals to the card holder who was of a different gender to the account holder. I took my hit from the £1000 lose and left it at that.

But I have done this with so many bookmakers that I opened another account at betway under a different name for the second time I basically forgot I had already done this but this time I won and I was £200 up then I tried to withdraw and they just returned the deposits and said the card was under a different name but they have left the account open for some reason.

I was not trying to defraud the bookmakers I obviously have a gambling problem and I tried to get a bet on then won’t stop until there’s nothing left. I have gambled under my mothers name with my card for well over a year now and probably lost at least 30k to multiple bookmakers so obviously the self exclusion doesn’t really help with addiction.

 

[Mark_Lottomart]

I’m a self excluded customer but was allowed to open an account with beltway under a different name but was still allowed to use my card with my name on it I lost over £1000 I had a lot of withdrawals in this time I asked for a refund but was refused then account was closed.

Fast forward 3 months I opened another account with them under a different name and the card under my name, I deposited £300 and won £500 they refused to pay me the winnings and returned the £300 worth of deposits.

Surely the bookmakers cant have one rule for winning with a card under a different name and one rule for losing with a card under a different name.

Please do every operator a favour and quit this habit you have.

 

[Deeplay]

I’m a self excluded customer but was allowed to open an account with beltway under a different name but was still allowed to use my card with my name on it I lost over £1000 I had a lot of withdrawals in this time I asked for a refund but was refused then account was closed.

Fast forward 3 months I opened another account with them under a different name and the card under my name, I deposited £300 and won £500 they refused to pay me the winnings and returned the £300 worth of deposits.

Surely the bookmakers cant have one rule for winning with a card under a different name and one rule for losing with a card under a different name.

Be thankful you got deposits back after you have tried to game the system! No sympathy at all. Such cases as this should have got squat back. Get a grip take responsability for your addiction and stop trying to scam. You knew exactly what you were doing.

 

[gs22]

Be thankful you got deposits back after you have tried to game the system! No sympathy at all. Such cases as this should have got squat back. Get a grip take responsability for your addiction and stop trying to scam. You knew exactly what you were doing.

How exactly did I try and game the system it’s the system that failed me. The gambling companies make up their own rules.

 

[DreamRJ]

How exactly did I try and game the system it’s the system that failed me. The gambling companies make up their own rules.

Because you deliberately kept making new accounts at the same casino and then you still expected them to pay you when you are self excluded. You really need to get some help if you can not stick with the self exclusion and are trying anything u can to still gamble.

I highly recommend that you contact gamblers anonymous or something, because if you do not get a grip of it soon it will end very badly.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

While the UKGC doesn't have oversight of NI (it has its

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

), there tends to be overlap on topics such as this and thus I would expect operators to behave similarly.

The UKGC rules on this changed a few years back after fraudsters saw it as an invitation to try and freeroll the casino (basically doing what you described - sign up with "slightly different" personal details to evade any self exclusion checks, then demand their money back when they lost) - at the expense of genuine cases of self exclusion / addiction who

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

As you've repeatedly attempted to get around self-exclusion checks, in the UKGC world the burden now falls on you rather than the operator - so while you believe you should be refunded (the freeroll) under responsible gambling rules, it's much more likely to see winnings voided as a terms of service breach (which is what they've done - refunded your deposits in the second instance).

Now should the operator have picked up that your details didn't match? Possibly, but no system can be 100% perfect and fraudsters will always be looking for ways to exploit that as a result... There may be a conversation to be had - but that would be between the operator and regulator, rather than yourself.


In an ideal world I'd agree - and in the past players would be made whole in a much wider range of circumstances. The problem is that fraudsters attacked this and keep pushing the envelope - such that the operator is forced into making more and more problematic decisions that either disproportionately increase their overhead, or significantly worsen the experience for everyone else (e.g. enhanced KYC at sign-up for all customers).

For example:

• Andrew Bettor (Mr A Bettor) self-excludes, his accounts are closed and money is returned to him.
• A month later, he tries to open a new account - and is rightly told he is self-excluded and unable to register. This is the system working as intended.
• Later on, "Andreew Bettor" becomes a member of the casino - all of these cases have people "accidentially" entering "slightly different details", possibly multiple times until they get one that works - and deposits as "Mr A Bettor".
  • Issue one - short of having a strict validation process for all customers (the enhanced KYC checks we all complain about), there will be a margin of error here - fraudsters are absolutely pushing this to the limit because they assume that casinos aren't going to impose that burden on all customers (although it's telling that some have started to - one site I signed up to last year wanted to do an ID KYC before I was eligible for promotions and full account access).
• Given there are one or more discrepancies between the new account holder and the SE customer, automated systems are not guaranteed to pick up they are the same person (especially if the person keeps trying until they succeed), even though it's "obviously" the same person (an angle frequently argued against the casino, because the human-readable version does look obvious).
  • Issue two - if casinos had to manually review every application, not only could players be waiting 48-72h to join but they would be asked for significantly more information on signup - this causes a significant increase in overheads for the casino and potential frustration for the customer when those documents aren't accepted and/or the request is deemed excessive or not achievable (e.g. people not on the electoral roll) and/or the manual review causes a mistake (as we inevitably will see with the new gamprotect trial).
• At this point, he starts depositing and withdrawing - the casino hasn't realised they are the same person yet so they will happily process withdrawals until a flag or threshold is raised by either party.
  • Issue three - as the fraudster has the power of timing, there is no guarantee that the casino will be able to revert to the starting position and thus is being freerolled. I agree that the casino shouldn't profit from such a situation either and those proceeds should be donated to charity at a later date.
• Finally, the flag is raised - either by the customer highlighting that they're actually the SE customer, or the casino establishing the information themselves - and the account is closed out.
  • Issue three (continued) - power of timing again, going back to the OP they initiated the process when they were £1000 down to recover their losses, but it was an automated flag (e.g. a £500 withdrawal) that snagged them in the second instance. I can think of many more examples but I'm not going to discuss them as I don't want to give ideas to them.

It absolutely sucks for genuine cases... but as we've seen with many similar threads (brand new forum accounts complaining about SE issues, often trying to freeroll the casino) the amount of SE abuse is a real problem.

[edit] oops, I didn't realise the post was getting that long... well done if you got to the end! [/edit]

I have one question though.

How hard can it be for a system (automated or not) to ensure the name on deposit method matches up to the name registered on the account? Cut the deposit method off and this wouldn't be able to happen. If there's even a one letter discrepancy between the name on the account and that verified on the deposit method, the payment should not go through and instead be declined.

 

[gs22]

Because you deliberately kept making new accounts at the same casino and then you still expected them to pay you when you are self excluded. You really need to get some help if you can not stick with the self exclusion and are trying anything u can to still gamble.

I highly recommend that you contact gamblers anonymous or something, because if you do not get a grip of it soon it will end very badly.

If you could read what I said I didn’t expect anything I’m questioning the system of how the bookmakers can make up there own rules and that the system in place is flawed.

Your judgement and trying to belittle a problematic gambler does that give you some sort of satisfaction?

These companies are making that much money they can’t count it quick enough yet they don’t have strong enough procedures in place to identify the difference between a female account holder and a male card holder.

 

[DreamRJ]

If you could read what I said I didn’t expect anything I’m questioning the system of how the bookmakers can make up there own rules and that the system in place is flawed.

Your judgement and trying to belittle a problematic gambler does that give you some sort of satisfaction?

These companies are making that much money they can’t count it quick enough yet they don’t have strong enough procedures in place to identify the difference between a female account holder and a male card holder.

I am not belittling you what so ever - I am not saying casinos are not always the best in terms of systems they have in place. But you are obviously targeting this casino because you know that you are able to keep creating a new account. You are breaking laws by doing this as others have said.

Usually the majority of online casinos do have systems in place that detect blocked players and as soon as you try and register or deposit using a same card you used on another once of your old accounts that usually gets flagged straight away and block, but obviously you have found a casino that does not have that system in place.

Just step back and actually see what you are saying and doing. Try and understand that you made a post on this forum. You will of course get negative replies and some might be positive. But you cant think that you have a reason to keep going on about this because you are breaking the law by keep repeating making new accounts when you are self excluded.

I will not be replying again. I just saw this thread and I just could not resist but to reply to this.

So again if you can contact gamblers anonymous then good luck. But please stop trying to cheat the systems of casinos, because eventually you will be caught and you might risk prosecution in which ever country you reside in.

 

[gs22]

I have one question though.

How hard can it be for a system (automated or not) to ensure the name on deposit method matches up to the name registered on the account? Cut the deposit method off and this wouldn't be able to happen. If there's even a one letter discrepancy between the name on the account and that verified on the deposit method, the payment should not go through and instead be declined.

I have been able to withdraw tens of thousands of pounds to the card that was not the same name as the gambling account holder surely they would see the name when they go through their withdrawal procedures it’s a system that the bookmakers can’t lose if the customer wins give them there deposits back if the customer loses they don’t have a leg to stand on.

 

[gs22]

I am not belittling you what so ever - I am not saying casinos are not always the best in terms of systems they have in place. But you are obviously targeting this casino because you know that you are able to keep creating a new account. You are breaking laws by doing this as others have said.

Usually the majority of online casinos do have systems in place that detect blocked players and as soon as you try and register or deposit using a same card you used on another once of your old accounts that usually gets flagged straight away and block, but obviously you have found a casino that does not have that system in place.

Just step back and actually see what you are saying and doing. Try and understand that you made a post on this forum. You will of course get negative replies and some might be positive. But you cant think that you have a reason to keep going on about this because you are breaking the law by keep repeating making new accounts when you are self excluded.

I will not be replying again. I just saw this thread and I just could not resist but to reply to this.

So again if you can contact gamblers anonymous then good luck. But please stop trying to cheat the systems of casinos, because eventually you will be caught and you might risk prosecution in which ever country you reside in.

The majority of bookmakres don’t there is not one bookmaker that has stopped payments going through and I could list you 20 off the top of my head. You obviously work for or are part of some sort of casino.

 

[Deeplay]

How exactly did I try and game the system it’s the system that failed me. The gambling companies make up their own rules.

No they have to follow the rules as laid down by the UKGC - and will have there own terms and conditions which you agreed to when you joined up. You run an SE then sign up with a false name and still expect to be paid ? get real. Focus on your addiction rather than trying to get back what is lost. The system has not failed you you have failed yourself. Take responsability for your own actions.

 

[brianmon]

I have one question though.

How hard can it be for a system (automated or not) to ensure the name on deposit method matches up to the name registered on the account? Cut the deposit method off and this wouldn't be able to happen. If there's even a one letter discrepancy between the name on the account and that verified on the deposit method, the payment should not go through and instead be declined.

I believe the problem is that the banks don't use the name on a card during processing. It's all just numbers - card no, cvv and expiry date
You could put any name at the casino end of things. The bank wouldn't pick it up

 

[brianmon]

My question in all these cases is...
Why sign up again at a site you've already self-excluded from?
Why not open an account with a different company? Where there won't be any problems. There are plenty to choose from

 

[toms596]

Are they not able to verify you are the named cardholder? I've applied for things before like phone contracts and they take a card payment to verify your identity or is this a system not available to casinos/bookmakers

 

[jasonuk]

I have one question though.

How hard can it be for a system (automated or not) to ensure the name on deposit method matches up to the name registered on the account? Cut the deposit method off and this wouldn't be able to happen. If there's even a one letter discrepancy between the name on the account and that verified on the deposit method, the payment should not go through and instead be declined.

My first instincts were to agree that it would be one of the best options, but looking into it more I can see a few issues... (edit: if they utilise it - as @brianmon suggests above, they may not anyway)

1) Not all cards state a full name - so "Andreew Bettor" in our previous example still validates for "Mr A Bettor" on his card.
2) Not all cards require your full legal name - for example, Mastercard offer a

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(e.g. for those in the LGBT+ community) where the card will state their preferred name.
3) It could introduce a burden to customers who are in the process of changing their name (marriage, divorce, deed poll etc) but have yet to complete the process financially.

The next suggestion would inevitably be some kind of government identification - but that likely triggers the overbearing KYC discussions.

 

[jasonuk]

The majority of bookmakres don’t there is not one bookmaker that has stopped payments going through and I could list you 20 off the top of my head. You obviously work for or are part of some sort of casino.

Oh really... and how exactly would you know this... 🤯

I have been able to withdraw tens of thousands of pounds to the card that was not the same name as the gambling account holder surely they would see the name when they go through their withdrawal procedures it’s a system that the bookmakers can’t lose if the customer wins give them there deposits back if the customer loses they don’t have a leg to stand on.

Are you seriously asking us why the casino is allowed to confiscate funds when you're committing fraud?

I don't think there's much more to add to this thread...

• If you have a genuine problem, you are starting to cross boundaries that could result in legal repercussions... please seek help before it is too late.
• If you don't and you are trying to promote fraud - the door is over there...

 

[maxd]

... The gambling companies make up their own rules.

As others have pointed out that's simply not true. Within the UKGC licensing jurisdiction the rules are pretty well described in the LCCP (Gooble it) and in my experience any casino that wanders off the proscribed path is in for trouble. Not crippling trouble (in most cases) but they generally don't get to mess about with the rules with impunity. Granted, some amount of latitude is given through clauses like "make the best effort" and "all reasonable diligence" etc but that doesn't change the fact that under UKGC rules statements like "gambling companies make up their own rules" are more your (apparently preferred) narrative than anything to do with the facts.

As to your self-exclusion and the casinos responsibilities in handling that I have to say that you may be barking up the wrong tree. At least AFAIK the bulk of SE enforcement was shifted from the casinos to Gamstop some time ago. It's my understanding that an SE request is only fully valid if you register at Gamstop and Gamstop is then primary enforcer of your SE: the casinos must act when Gamstop reports an attempt to re-register but the casino is not expected to actively hunt for those re-registration attempts themselves. In other words if Gamstop green-lights you then the casino is free to treat you as a regular customer. I must say it's been a while since I deep-dived the LCCP so things may have changed and my information may be dated, but I haven't heard anything to say that's the case so there's that.

... Your judgement and trying to belittle a problematic gambler does that give you some sort of satisfaction? ...

Dude, you are a self-confessed serial fraudster and you're basically come here asking how you can better game the system! Yes, I understand that you may well have monumental gambling issues but that doesn't absolve you of responsibilities for your actions, which are highly suspect BTW. You'll have to forgive the membership if they want to ask a probing question or two about your ways and motives.

- Max

 

[OliverCooper]

Be thankful you got deposits back after you have tried to game the system! No sympathy at all. Such cases as this should have got squat back. Get a grip take responsability for your addiction and stop trying to scam. You knew exactly what you were doing.

I just wanted to write that it's really lucky that they allowed to take the deposit