Gambling Grumbles correction

greasemonkey

Banned User - flaming
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Jul 2, 2010
Location
USA
I wanted to avoid any derail of the inetbet Nightmare thread but I did want to address a topic that was brought up in that thread. The questioning of Gambling Grumbles integrity was way out of line.

There have been a few posters that were up in arms over Gambling Grumbles listing Virtual Group casinos. I don't see them linking to any of these casinos however. I see that they list a few times these casinos but they have skull/crossbones next to them and they don't link to them. They also list inetbet but they do not link to them either.

My point is that questioning the Gambling Grumbles integrity over listing casinos that they don't actually even link to is wrong. Heck, CM lists all of them also and doesn't link to them either.

Of all the casinos silver oak is the only linking casino but when I check them out I am not sure if they are part of the virtual group? It doesn't actually appear so and the affiliate program is not the same either.
Cool cat, VIP Lounge, Club player, virtual and wild vegas all have no working links however that I could find. Regardless, I think the criticism was wrong obviously.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
I wanted to avoid any derail of the inetbet Nightmare thread but I did want to address a topic that was brought up in that thread. The questioning of Gambling Grumbles integrity was way out of line.

There have been a few posters that were up in arms over Gambling Grumbles listing Virtual Group casinos. I don't see them linking to any of these casinos however. I see that they list a few times these casinos but they have skull/crossbones next to them and they don't link to them. They also list inetbet but they do not link to them either.

My point is that questioning the Gambling Grumbles intergrity over listing casinos that they don't actually even link to is wrong. Heck, CM lists all of them also and doesn't link to them either.

Of all the casinos silver oak is the only linking casino but when I check them out I am not sure if they are part of the virtual group? It doesn't actually appear so and the affiliate program is not the same either.
Cool cat, VIP Lounge, Club player, virtual and wild vegas all have no working links however that I could find. Regardless, I think the criticism was wrong obviously.

You are wrong.

There are active affiliate links to all the casinos you mention, just not on the grumbles main page.

Why do you think they offer the grumbles service? It's to attract players to the site, in the hope that they will browse around the rest of the pages.......and when they do, they will find live links to the worst rogue operators that ever existed in the industry.

So, their integrity is still questionable IMO.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
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Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Just a cautionary note here guys: keep this civil. The first indication that this is degenerating into personal attacks, sniping, bashing, attempts to belittle, whatever will get this thread shut down without notice or apology.

You are free to debate this with facts and information; you are not free to turn this into another scuffle buddy session at everyone else's expense.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
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Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
I am surprised some members decided to give Graeme and Steve a hard time here. Both sites (CM andGG) are here to help out players although the methods employed are vastly different. IMO GG appeals to the newbies more since they know little about the industry and commit a lot of fundamental errors whereas at CM players are more sophisticated. These 2 gentlemen would have made great contributions and I do hope we dont scare them away.

They do not provide links to the rogues and rightly so although it seems they view this from a different perspective. It may take some time to persuade them to sever ties , if any, to the rogues as players who trust them will be eaten alive by the likes of Virtual. However, that is no reason to be rude to them and actually to anyone who dont share our beliefs.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
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Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
I am surprised some members decided to give Graeme and Steve a hard time here. Both sites (CM andGG) are here to help out players although the methods employed are vastly different. IMO GG appeals to the newbies more since they know little about the industry and commit a lot of fundamental errors whereas at CM players are more sophisticated. These 2 gentlemen would have made great contributions and I do hope we dont scare them away.

They do not provide links to the rogues and rightly so although it seems they view this from a different perspective. It may take some time to persuade them to sever ties , if any, to the rogues as players who trust them will be eaten alive by the likes of Virtual. However, that is no reason to be rude to them and actually to anyone who dont share our beliefs.

Sorry chu, but you are also wrong.

GG does link to these rogue casinos, just not on the GG main page.....in fact, GG admitted themselves that they do it so don't just take my word for it.

I really don't know where everyone is getting the idea that they do not advertise/make money from advertising virtual etc. It's a fact.

For the record, I may have been abrupt and perhaps even rude to them at one point, because I am passionate about what I believe when it comes to the likes of virtual etc....that is, there is NO excuse for affiliates to be promoting them and to do so is playing a part in the fleecing of innocent players, particularly newbs. Yes, they are providing a helpful service for players, but one must question their ethics given that these are experienced industry people who KNOW what these rogue outfits are all about. To say "oh yes but we don't promote them heavily" or "if they do the wrong thing we promote them less" is, quite frankly, unethical and it personally disgusts me.

If some want to continue to sing their praises and defend them, well that's your right.....but the way I see it, by defending those who promote such rogue operators you are also playing a part in the problem (albeit it a small one).

Graeme and Steve might be really nice guys, which is great, but I'm not talking about them personally, I'm talking about their business ethics and IMO they leave a lot to be desired. Look at it this way....when was the last time Bryan told you about the casino that had done the wrong thing and had been thrown in the rogue pit, and a few days later you see a link on CM saying "play here" for the same casino? Never going to happen, as I doubt Bryan could sleep at night knowing he was sending players that place their trust in him to a casino that quite possibly will take them to the cleaners.
 

gaydave

Banned User - complete PITA
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Location
USA
You are wrong.

There are active affiliate links to all the casinos you mention, just not on the grumbles main page.

Why do you think they offer the grumbles service? It's to attract players to the site, in the hope that they will browse around the rest of the pages.......and when they do, they will find live links to the worst rogue operators that ever existed in the industry.

So, their integrity is still questionable IMO.


Can you post a link or even just PM me a link? Not trying to pick a fight but I have just scoured the site of theirs and I can't find any working links to them. So if you can PM me the link or post that would help. Thnx in advance.
 

Cleveland

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Jun 15, 2011
Location
Texas
Can you post a link or even just PM me a link? Not trying to pick a fight but I have just scoured the site of theirs and I can't find any working links to them. So if you can PM me the link or post that would help. Thnx in advance.

I'm so not in this fight by the way. I just had came across it while I was googling them. I have no clue how affiliate stuff works so I'm not sure if this is the type of link y'all are talking about.

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:eek2:
 
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gaydave

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I'm so not in this fight by the way. I just had came across it while I was googling them.

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:eek2:

Thank you cleveland. Is it just me or does the page come up and the links do not work, then the page quickly changes (without me hitting anything) to another page that doesnt list cool cat? The only way I could get this link to work is to scroll all the way down and skip all of the other stuff and finally click "play here". I had to try multiple times as it kept changing the page on me automatically.
If that happens to anyone and they get any clicks on that particular page then it would be a minor miracle. I would lay a bet that they don't even know it works. Maybe I am wrong. That is picking nits, however. Clearly they are not promoting the casino. It has skull by it. They are making it hard to get there if you are trying. If your a new player and you don't know where to play you wont find that. integrity still in check IMO.
 

Cleveland

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Jun 15, 2011
Location
Texas
Nevermind you're right.

I use firefox so the page loads normally for me as most scripts etc on their site aren't running on mine. But when I temporarily "allowed" their site to run the page started doing as you said. It actually takes me back to the main page. I guess for those who use firefox you will see the Cool Cat profile page with the info and links.
 
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chuchu59

gambling addict
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CAG
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Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Even if GG does have links to the rogues IMO the best option would be to talk them out of it highlighting the need to put the interests of the players first. It is counter-productive to bash them at every possible opportunity as this is likely to meet with resistance.
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
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I'm still trying to figure out how things work at Gambling Grumbles - if there's a skull and crossbones it just means that they were unsuccessful in resolving an issue with that casino, right?

For instance, I noticed that they have Rushmore casino with a skull and crossbones, but on the main page under recommended casinos, they have Rushmore listed at #3.
 

Nifty29

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Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
I'm still trying to figure out how things work at Gambling Grumbles - if there's a skull and crossbones it just means that they were unsuccessful in resolving an issue with that casino, right?

For instance, I noticed that they have Rushmore casino with a skull and crossbones, but on the main page under recommended casinos, they have Rushmore listed at #3.

I rest my case.

Good sleuthing chayton :)
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
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lol, I wasn't sleuthing I was trying to figure it out. There are a couple of casinos who have a skull and crossbones AND a smiley face - actually Rushmore is one of them - they have like 3 laughy faces and a skull and crossbones. Silver Oak has one of each.

So I'm seeing it that the skulls are just showing that it wasn't resolved in favor of the player, am I right?
 

jod5413

Is That Better?
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Mar 6, 2007
Location
somewhere on the planet
I'm not at all sure how the site works, Chayton. But, when I wandered around it appears that they killed the links to Coolcat casino. If in fact they decided to no longer linking to the Virtual casinos, the next step would be for them to make them go away completely. They can still choose to try and help players, of course, but it would really improve their "image" to no longer show them at all.

Just my 2 cents.
 

greasemonkey

Banned User - flaming
Joined
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Location
USA
I'm not at all sure how the site works, Chayton. But, when I wandered around it appears that they killed the links to Coolcat casino. If in fact they decided to no longer linking to the Virtual casinos, the next step would be for them to make them go away completely. They can still choose to try and help players, of course, but it would really improve their "image" to no longer show them at all.

Just my 2 cents.


If they don't link to them that doesn't mean that they don't exist though. Or am I missing your point? I mean, even here Bryan lists the same casinos and doesn't link to them. I don't think that GG has linked to these casinos at all. Here is where you can find them but they have no working links (note that this is their BLACKLISTED CASINOS):
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I agree with Chuchu however. Why not embrace GG as yet another tool to help the online gaming community. Obviously they are trying to do good and they don't even link to the casinos even though Nifty keeps saying they do. If I am wrong Nifty, I apologize but I have not found one working link yet that loads correctly on the page and allows a player to click it.
 

greasemonkey

Banned User - flaming
Joined
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Location
USA
I'm still trying to figure out how things work at Gambling Grumbles - if there's a skull and crossbones it just means that they were unsuccessful in resolving an issue with that casino, right?

For instance, I noticed that they have Rushmore casino with a skull and crossbones, but on the main page under recommended casinos, they have Rushmore listed at #3.

You have it right I think Chayton. I think that skull/crossbones are when they got an unacceptable response from the casino on that particular case. They could also get a smiley face on another case for making things right or giving the proper response.
 

Graeme

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Gibraltar
Thanks for the additional comments.
Greasemonkey is correct. Neither Gambling Grumbles nor any site in The Gambling Portals network links to any casino in the Virtual group. There have been no such links for as long as I can remember. I'm grateful for his taking the time to scrutinise my sites.

Nifty's comments are out of place and completely unsubstantiated.
In my earlier post, I outlined our method of operating and mentioned that we do not link to casinos that are indisputably dishonest. I gave no specific examples. Nifty is perhaps jumping to conclusions without bothering to look at my sites.

In did invite Nifty and others to try to find any links to real rogue sites. In the light of his/her serious accusations involving my integrity I now request him/her please to make his/her facts public and to provide details of links to the Virtual group.

Cleveland, thank you very much for providing that link. There is nowhere on the sites that anyone can link to that page, so it is puzzling how Google managed to list it. As a precaution, we have now removed all links on such unreachable pages for deactivated casinos. We do need to enter sites in our system so they can be reported on Gambling Grumbles but they remain deactivated.

Apart from in the Gambling Grumbles reports, one will find the Virtual casinos listed in a Blacklist and in a Voted Worst Site table. They have no links.
I hope it's in order to list the URLs:
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Max, thanks for trying to calm things down. I do hope I'm not causing more problems by responding, but I do feel that accusations should be substantiated.
 

bb28

Meister Member
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Nov 18, 2006
Location
US
Graeme, did you in the past have links to rogue casino's on your site?


No I'm not trying to trap you, because I thought I had saw some previously but I could be wrong and it would actually be good for you if you could confirm that you didn't previously have links.
 

Steve Russo

Experienced Member
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Cyberspace
I'm still trying to figure out how things work at Gambling Grumbles - if there's a skull and crossbones it just means that they were unsuccessful in resolving an issue with that casino, right?

No, it means more than that. In the great majority of cases it means that the casino didn't even bother responding to our e-mail (or, of course, correcting the problem directly with the player).

In a few cases, it means that we feel that the casino is purposely cheating the player.

If we can not settle a dispute but feel that the casino is wrong but not being dishonest, we put a "Crying Face" on it.

If we can not settle a dispute and do not know who is right -- the player or the casino -- we put either a "?" or a blank circle.

If we feel that the player was in the wrong, or if we feel that the casino took some steps to correct a problem but did not go far enough, we put a "Smiling Face" symbol.

If we feel that the casino solved the problem completely, we put a "Big Smile" (which could also be called a "Laughing Face" symbol.

Each report stands on its own, so it is very possible that a casino will have a "Crying Face" or even a "Skull & Crossbones" on one report and a "Big Smile" on others.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Thanks for the additional comments.
Greasemonkey is correct. Neither Gambling Grumbles nor any site in The Gambling Portals network links to any casino in the Virtual group. There have been no such links for as long as I can remember. I'm grateful for his taking the time to scrutinise my sites.

Nifty's comments are out of place and completely unsubstantiated.
In my earlier post, I outlined our method of operating and mentioned that we do not link to casinos that are indisputably dishonest. I gave no specific examples. Nifty is perhaps jumping to conclusions without bothering to look at my sites.

In did invite Nifty and others to try to find any links to real rogue sites. In the light of his/her serious accusations involving my integrity I now request him/her please to make his/her facts public and to provide details of links to the Virtual group.

Cleveland, thank you very much for providing that link. There is nowhere on the sites that anyone can link to that page, so it is puzzling how Google managed to list it. As a precaution, we have now removed all links on such unreachable pages for deactivated casinos. We do need to enter sites in our system so they can be reported on Gambling Grumbles but they remain deactivated.

Apart from in the Gambling Grumbles reports, one will find the Virtual casinos listed in a Blacklist and in a Voted Worst Site table. They have no links.
I hope it's in order to list the URLs:
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Max, thanks for trying to calm things down. I do hope I'm not causing more problems by responding, but I do feel that accusations should be substantiated.

As with God, Google "moves in mysterious ways". It also caches pages, and these can be out of date, yet if clicked on, can make the user think they have a page currently on the website. Making it impossible to nagivate to a page doesn't make it invisible to a search "within site". There ARE ways to hide parts of a site from Google, and a few sites do this to protect content from being distributed via search engine queries, or from getting nicked this way.

I have often found a Google result that does not exist other than in the Google cache. Google may be holding on to these results for too long after the page they came from is changed. Maybe removing a page completely causes Google problems, causing it to hang on to what is in the cache because the page has disappeared, rather than been updated.

This does at least settle the argument about GG earning "blood money" by still having active links to Virtual casinos. The evidence that they did came from an outdated source, Google cache results, or from parts of a site that were no longer supposed to be reachable, but got snared by Google in any case.

When I checked the GG lists, if you hover over a "rogue", you get a message "we do not link to xxxxx" as your pointer hovers over where the link would be, whereas the "button" for non-blacklisted casinos will highlight, and be clearly "clickable" as your pointer goes over it.

Unless you do this, you cannot necessarily see that some are linked, but others not, and may assume every "button" is a link, whatever casino it is for.
 
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