gambling cards they say 50:50 chance...

syntynyt

kuollut
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Dec 31, 2013
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14 blacks in a row. picked red every time. when i pick black is of course becoming Red. im talking about novomatics ability to screw me. after about 8 blacks in a row i start to wait for a big enough win to just double, thinking it cant go black forever. but the cards algorithm is built to serve exactly that kind of thinking, letting me think that chances are greater than 50% now to pick the red only to screw me indefinetly or until i gamble a small risk or press black to reveal by miracle a red. i lost all the money and finally gambled a small risk on BLACK and of course suddenly it was red.

after playing merkur real machines for 1 full year i can tell that i have never come across over a sequence extended for more than 10 cards of the same color hence increasing my chance saving for a big double up, it worked countless times, never with novomatc. or a black and red on repeat sequence for more than 8-10 cards, never with merkur. it is possibly that is not random but rather established, makes me believe that if i write down all the cards i reveal the pattern. in novomatics columbus and burning target old versions the russian hackers did exactly that after gambling was forbidden in Russia, and because i gamble basically ~70% of the risks merkur may suffer from the same problem but it can be machine independent rather than to all machines variants like in novomatic case, i wish i could test :D. in either case, is not 50:50 how they falsely advertise. while in merkur it doesnt matter what kind of mega risk you gamble, you just need to guess the colour, the biggest i gambled was 250x bonus of legacy of fire and lots of 3 figure wins, in novomatic it may analyse the bet/win factor, not permitting you to go above and displaying the other card until it decides the risk is small enough to let you double. i play for a week online novos on admiral.ro powered by greentube malta, all legit, the bullshit sequences ive seen in cards is anything but 50:50 chance. i thought that the gamble in landbased is rigged, but is the same online. in merkur i close the risks up to my balls permit usually around 200x and is collecting the win by itself. in novomatic is simply impossible both in real machines and online, black and red is just a bloody animation, the picking factor does not exist on big risks, is more like the gamble in Reel King, you can press just gamble and let the slot do it for you. from 50:50 chance i expect randomness, a system inside that picks a single card color and is up to my luck if i choose it right, and then again and again until i lose, collect, or close the risk, no matter how big it is. novomatic used to rig the cards in their old machines that had american poker 2 once the player decided to go frenzy max bet and gambling all the risks, 2 pair, 3oak were won-able, straight and the above if was not lost on the last card was lost on the road, i never heard a full-house 4 cards on max bet singing the song that the risk is won. that rigged was novomatic gambling and continues to be with the illusion of picking factor, like deciding against how the machine was set up having a chance outside the regular press-start-good-luck. the advertisement in paytable of fifty-fifty is like how our conationals go to the west and play black n white game, a game designed to steal the player by believing is having a change of winning, much like novomatic gamble, is letting you choose the right color thinking your lucky, raise the bet and cry
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trancemonkey

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Location
United Kingdom
14 blacks in a row. picked red every time. when i pick black is of course becoming Red. im talking about novomatics ability to screw me. after about 8 blacks in a row i start to wait for a big enough win to just double, thinking it cant go black forever. but the cards algorithm is built to serve exactly that kind of thinking, letting me think that chances are greater than 50% now to pick the red only to screw me indefinetly or until i gamble a small risk or press black to reveal by miracle a red. i lost all the money and finally gambled a small risk on BLACK and of course suddenly it was red.

after playing merkur real machines for 1 full year i can tell that i have never come across over a sequence extended for more than 10 cards of the same color hence increasing my chance saving for a big double up, it worked countless times, never with novomatc. or a black and red on repeat sequence for more than 8-10 cards, never with merkur. it is possibly that is not random but rather established, makes me believe that if i write down all the cards i reveal the pattern. in novomatics columbus and burning target old versions the russian hackers did exactly that after gambling was forbidden in Russia, and because i gamble basically ~70% of the risks merkur may suffer from the same problem but it can be machine independent rather than to all machines variants like in novomatic case, i wish i could test :D. in either case, is not 50:50 how they falsely advertise. while in merkur it doesnt matter what kind of mega risk you gamble, you just need to guess the colour, the biggest i gambled was 250x bonus of legacy of fire and lots of 3 figure wins, in novomatic it may analyse the bet/win factor, not permitting you to go above and displaying the other card until it decides the risk is small enough to let you double. i play for a week online novos on admiral.ro powered by greentube malta, all legit, the bullshit sequences ive seen in cards is anything but 50:50 chance. i thought that the gamble in landbased is rigged, but is the same online. in merkur i close the risks up to my balls permit usually around 200x and is collecting the win by itself. in novomatic is simply impossible both in real machines and online, black and red is just a bloody animation, the picking factor does not exist on big risks, is more like the gamble in Reel King, you can press just gamble and let the slot do it for you. from 50:50 chance i expect randomness, a system inside that picks a single card color and is up to my luck if i choose it right, and then again and again until i lose, collect, or close the risk, no matter how big it is. novomatic used to rig the cards in their old machines that had american poker 2 once the player decided to go frenzy max bet and gambling all the risks, 2 pair, 3oak were won-able, straight and the above if was not lost on the last card was lost on the road, i never heard a full-house 4 cards on max bet singing the song that the risk is won. that rigged was novomatic gambling and continues to be with the illusion of picking factor, like deciding against how the machine was set up having a chance outside the regular press-start-good-luck. the advertisement in paytable of fifty-fifty is like how our conationals go to the west and play black n white game, a game designed to steal the player by believing is having a change of winning, much like novomatic gamble, is letting you choose the right color thinking your lucky, raise the bet and cry
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It is 50/50... 14 in a row is extremely unlikely but certainly not impossible.

You have a 1 in 16393.442623 chance of getting 14 black cards ( or red cards ) in a row. That's not so rare as to be unlikely. It would've been far more rigged if the gamble could never do it...
 

syntynyt

kuollut
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ive seen that rare event dozens of times, both in old machines and deluxe versions. not one day passes by without someone saying in any novomatic hall: how many reds, how many blacks? after several in a row of the same color people tend to stick with the other color, awaiting a big win or significantly raising the bet for a big risk to double up on that color. for example i play 1 euro, ive seen 10 blacks, i up my bets to 20 euros and wait for a small-medium win, that on 1 euro would have been big-mega, and i stick to red, what you think will happen than the machine continuing the rigged behavior of displaying countless blacks, how is this 50:50 really.
the gambling is still unclear. on the screen is displayed the previous 5 colors, those that dont appear what happened to them, do they count in the economy of logic that eventually after lots of blacks a red MUST come? in wazdan machines(magic of the ring, clone of book of ra for reference) is displaying about 20 of the latest colors, in BDBA last 7 colors and is also offering like IGT, Play n Go the possibility of gambling on symbol of the card not just color. i have gambled in all softwares that offered it, i have never come across something like novomatic. are you 100% sure the picking factor counts, or better said it exists on big risks? my opinion is that if the risk is very high, like gambling a successful feature(in landbased, in online all wins of certain spins are independently gambled or collected) the possibility of doubling up is solely based of how much money was inserted/withdrawn from the machine. if you have more infos based solely on 2 color novomatic gambling id like to hear.
 

trancemonkey

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Mar 29, 2013
Location
United Kingdom
ive seen that rare event dozens of times, both in old machines and deluxe versions. not one day passes by without someone saying in any novomatic hall: how many reds, how many blacks? after several in a row of the same color people tend to stick with the other color, awaiting a big win or significantly raising the bet for a big risk to double up on that color. for example i play 1 euro, ive seen 10 blacks, i up my bets to 20 euros and wait for a small-medium win, that on 1 euro would have been big-mega, and i stick to red, what you think will happen than the machine continuing the rigged behavior of displaying countless blacks, how is this 50:50 really.
the gambling is still unclear. on the screen is displayed the previous 5 colors, those that dont appear what happened to them, do they count in the economy of logic that eventually after lots of blacks a red MUST come? in wazdan machines(magic of the ring, clone of book of ra for reference) is displaying about 20 of the latest colors, in BDBA last 7 colors and is also offering like IGT, Play n Go the possibility of gambling on symbol of the card not just color. i have gambled in all softwares that offered it, i have never come across something like novomatic. are you 100% sure the picking factor counts, or better said it exists on big risks? my opinion is that if the risk is very high, like gambling a successful feature(in landbased, in online all wins of certain spins are independently gambled or collected) the possibility of doubling up is solely based of how much money was inserted/withdrawn from the machine. if you have more infos based solely on 2 color novomatic gambling id like to hear.

It's 50/50. It's legally 50/50. There's no reason to fix it. It runs at 100% RTP. Get a coin and toss it... Record the results. You'll see the same type of patterns ...
 

Tengil

Senior Member
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It's 50/50. It's legally 50/50. There's no reason to fix it. It runs at 100% RTP. Get a coin and toss it... Record the results. You'll see the same type of patterns ...

Yet some have seen a reason to fix it.. So the "no reason" argument has no merit (as every single time in discussions related to game fairness).
 

TheAddict

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If you ever paid attention to wesley in passenger 57 you would have unlocked the secret.
 

trancemonkey

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Yet some have seen a reason to fix it.. So the "no reason" argument has no merit (as every single time in discussions related to game fairness).

You're misunderstanding my point... If you're a dodgy company who doesn't care about law or morality then of course you might rig anything. However outside of being dodgy, there is no gameplay or mathematical reason to fix it. I would never ever purposely design in to a game something which is likely to piss players off. If I was likely to compensate or rig a game, and in any way thought I could get away with it, I would be a hell of a lot more subtle than anything you guys have described so far...
 

syntynyt

kuollut
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to put it differently, leaving outside the colors and working with the 50% chance of a double up in all scenarios. you are saying that a rare feature win, lets saying 500x, have 50% chance to be doubled by guessing the next color? is really a guessing game between A and B on gambling big risks? surely the gambling feature is not connected with the RTP of the machine/game, the in/out countmeter is not playing any role? in novomatic landbased old machines and new cabinets you can gamble anything, ive seen 5 dolphins in dolphins pearl in base game, it was not automatically collected, that win technically had 50% chance to be doubled according to you.
 

Tengil

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Actually now remember some B&M machines where the gamble on micro wins (related to stake) had a ridiculously high success rate whereas the higher wins had a somewhat normal win/loss rate. Could have been some older Atronic ones.


You're misunderstanding my point... If you're a dodgy company who doesn't care about law or morality then of course you might rig anything. However outside of being dodgy, there is no gameplay or mathematical reason to fix it. I would never ever purposely design in to a game something which is likely to piss players off. If I was likely to compensate or rig a game, and in any way thought I could get away with it, I would be a hell of a lot more subtle than anything you guys have described so far...

No I'm not. There is a reason to fix it and that is of course financial gain. And rigging games has to date had no consequences to those involved, the SkillOnNet scoundrels for example has licenses in about every jurisdiction. And gambling companies hardly care about morality or law, especially online ones.

And the only softwares that have been busted (by players in every case) have been amateurish in their crime when they have done it so easily detectable. A bit more thought and they would never have been caught.
 

trancemonkey

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to put it differently, leaving outside the colors and working with the 50% chance of a double up in all scenarios. you are saying that a rare feature win, lets saying 500x, have 50% chance to be doubled by guessing the next color? is really a guessing game between A and B on gambling big risks? surely the gambling feature is not connected with the RTP of the machine/game, the in/out countmeter is not playing any role? in novomatic landbased old machines and new cabinets you can gamble anything, ive seen 5 dolphins in dolphins pearl in base game, it was not automatically collected, that win technically had 50% chance to be doubled according to you.

Correct... It's purely a 50% chance. It's boom or bust. Double or nothing. Mathematically costs the game nothing. The only reason to limit it is to do with exposure.
 

trancemonkey

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Actually now remember some B&M machines where the gamble on micro wins (related to stake) had a ridiculously high success rate whereas the higher wins had a somewhat normal win/loss rate. Could have been some older Atronic ones.




No I'm not. There is a reason to fix it and that is of course financial gain. And rigging games has to date had no consequences to those involved, the SkillOnNet scoundrels for example has licenses in about every jurisdiction. And gambling companies hardly care about morality or law, especially online ones.

And the only softwares that have been busted (by players in every case) have been amateurish in their crime when they have done it so easily detectable. A bit more thought and they would never have been caught.

Not strictly true with the new RTP monitoring... But anything is possible of course. I don't know the SkillOnNet issue so I can't comment
 

judgenico

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reminds me of that interesting statistic that if you was playing roulette and allowed to do so starting with say a pound, euro how many double ups say on red or black would it take to reach a million,ask your friends this question and off the top of their heads they would probably over estimate the amount of times but its actually 20 does not seem that improbable when you see like you say those type of runs on the slots
 

interlog

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The question begs why the hell you would use the gamble function. Talk about adding extra variance to what are already high enough variance games when you're talking about Merkur's and Novomatics.
 

syntynyt

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it is because i cant resist the urge :D merkur have a lot of medium variance games in their machines, it is the only provider on which im way up overall. also i like to feel that im contributing to my (dis)advantage rather than letting the game alone play its role. ive made consistent withdrawals just for gambling a few wins, i lost deposits because i gambled all big risks in a tilt mode. is part of the game, and have my reservation about novo fairness on big risks, doesnt feel predetermined nor random, more like analyzing the position, bet vs win, who knows what mechanism it uses.

and accorning to trancemonkey i dont add extra variance, its 50:50 chance of doubling 5 explorers expanded in book of ra bonus to a trillion dollars.
 

trancemonkey

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it is because i cant resist the urge :D merkur have a lot of medium variance games in their machines, it is the only provider on which im way up overall. also i like to feel that im contributing to my (dis)advantage rather than letting the game alone play its role. ive made consistent withdrawals just for gambling a few wins, i lost deposits because i gambled all big risks in a tilt mode. is part of the game, and have my reservation about novo fairness on big risks, doesnt feel predetermined nor random, more like analyzing the position, bet vs win, who knows what mechanism it uses.

and accorning to trancemonkey i dont add extra variance, its 50:50 chance of doubling 5 explorers expanded in book of ra bonus to a trillion dollars.

Noooo

You add a lot of variance.. by gambling you are making the game even more volatile especially if you gamble only high wins. You don't affect RTP in the long run but you absolutely affect volatility.
 

dunover

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The random 50-50 gamble is a casino thing attached to the slot and yes it will state 100% RTP on the gamble but the point here is whether or not it has any algorithm or value for the amount integrated. If it did it would explain why despite producing 100% RTP in the long-term, that lower amounts are weighted more favourably for the player which is what syntynt has observed. I never use the function, it's pointless.
 

syntynyt

kuollut
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thanks for the translation, 100% my point.
"the point here is whether or not it has any algorithm or value for the amount integrated'
 

Mark_32Red (retired acct)

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This thread reminds me of a very short visit to the empire casino in London many years back after a reasonably profitable day at Ascot.

'Oohlook' said naive me when I saw 8/9 blacks in a row.

Put down a medium bet on Red.

Lost.

'This can't be right' said me. Forgetting the 50:50 rule. Another (bigger) bet.

Lost.

Won't bore you with the full details but my racing winnings took a dent for sure and it could have been a similar run.

Mark
 

trancemonkey

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The random 50-50 gamble is a casino thing attached to the slot and yes it will state 100% RTP on the gamble but the point here is whether or not it has any algorithm or value for the amount integrated. If it did it would explain why despite producing 100% RTP in the long-term, that lower amounts are weighted more favourably for the player which is what syntynt has observed. I never use the function, it's pointless.

Not as far as I'm aware - and for good reason. I've never used one other than a straight 50/50 choice and that's because you can't force anyone to gamble - if you had an algorithm to alter the chance for lower amounts versus higher amounts and no one ever gambled a high value you'd never hit the 100% RTP. It's just not worth it. Again, it would be illegal under UKGC and MGA technical standards to do this.
 

slotter999

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The random 50-50 gamble is a casino thing attached to the slot and yes it will state 100% RTP on the gamble but the point here is whether or not it has any algorithm or value for the amount integrated. If it did it would explain why despite producing 100% RTP in the long-term, that lower amounts are weighted more favourably for the player which is what syntynt has observed. I never use the function, it's pointless.

On the land based novomatics haven't there been issues with the gamble feature which ended up being exploited?

One involved losing gambles resulting in almost instant bonus retriggers or something similar?

I'm quoting you as I'm sure I saw an old post of yours in the subject.

As for the gambles I think it might have been that beetle game whereby someone figured out the gamble sequence so could predetermine what the next card would be which doesn't sound very random.
 

syntynyt

kuollut
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On the land based novomatics haven't there been issues with the gamble feature which ended up being exploited?

One involved losing gambles resulting in almost instant bonus retriggers or something similar?

I'm quoting you as I'm sure I saw an old post of yours in the subject.

As for the gambles I think it might have been that beetle game whereby someone figured out the gamble sequence so could predetermine what the next card would be which doesn't sound very random.


the beetle game you refer to as beetlemania is the better looking clone of burning target which had the pattern exploited along with columbus by simply writing down the cards. those 2 games have had explicit patterns, for example 500 cards that kept on repeating in order, a different set for each game. each machine had a different series ID, totallying no more than dozens worldwide, but russian hackers have had access to all variants therefor broke them all. even more broke the encrypted pattern of lucky lady, book of ra and some others. to get the machine ID you wanted to play at the machine needed to be restarted, the only way was by pulling the plug out and back in and the cost was $2000 for each ID. i have assisted at the hack in a small cafe bar not knowing what is happening and only after i have looked for infos and heard more stories of those that took a country tour getting rich.

the thing is, by playing a single merkur machine for a long time i think it suffers from the same problem, repeating a cards pattern. the highlight is that all games are connected to the same set of cards, changing the game does not change the previous cards as it does in novomatic. all i need is a pen and paper to test but considering is a national bookie, doing this may result in triggering security firm or worse.
in those old gaminator 10-game versions anything could have been doubled and achieved solely by luck as proven later by the exploit, the newer ones are fucked when it comes to double a big risk, novomatic took care of the issue...:rolleyes:
an insightful article here www.wired.com
 

miksaxxx

Senior Member
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Location
Finland
Same as live roulette. :(

Screenshot_20170724-002606.jpg

I played couple of weeks ago live roulette with 500-2000€ stake Black 9 Times. Allways red.

It was expensive session.

Never again i dont play in live table.

Luck with cards and roulette can be expensive lesson.

And hd picture was very good. :( atleast i getted to see in screen what comed. :)
 

syntynyt

kuollut
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~
nonono is not the same. in live roulette the only concern may be a vibrating ball that is controlling the landing to limit the exposure of where very high bets were placed. neilw established that is not the case though. ive seen in live roulette 3 of the same number in a row, ive seen in machine roulette the same even when ive had the number with decent sum on it.
the concern here is if novomatic have implemented a mechanism able to look after bet vs. win to not permit going bonkers in doubling major wins for the purpose to limit the exposure resulting in guarantee lose. the cards doesnt feel randomly extracted or will not frequently produce at least 10 of the same color when gambling on big risks, doesnt feel predetermined either like 500 cards developing its order, it feels like acts on situation. while with under 10xbet you can close the risk, to guess just one card in a major risk is border with impossibility for a 50:50 chance...despite trancemonkey believes you can double 500x bet feature, ive tried lower than that for many many times not once guessing, is not bad luck is bullshit.
 

trancemonkey

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United Kingdom
nonono is not the same. in live roulette the only concern may be a vibrating ball that is controlling the landing to limit the exposure of where very high bets were placed. neilw established that is not the case though. ive seen in live roulette 3 of the same number in a row, ive seen in machine roulette the same even when ive had the number with decent sum on it.
the concern here is if novomatic have implemented a mechanism able to look after bet vs. win to not permit going bonkers in doubling major wins for the purpose to limit the exposure resulting in guarantee lose. the cards doesnt feel randomly extracted or will not frequently produce at least 10 of the same color when gambling on big risks, doesnt feel predetermined either like 500 cards developing its order, it feels like acts on situation. while with under 10xbet you can close the risk, to guess just one card in a major risk is border with impossibility for a 50:50 chance...despite trancemonkey believes you can double 500x bet feature, ive tried lower than that for many many times not once guessing, is not bad luck is bullshit.

Try doubling your next 500x win... You'll have a 50/50 chance i promise :)
 

syntynyt

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~
you sound very optimistic, i will take my time and my phone to record and prove you wrong, in other words i will waste some wins to gamble 1. on big wins, 100x+ 2. on max bet 50x+ wins. im afraid to not be filmed by them with the thought i do maneuvers.
this provider Old / Expired Link i played for years. all 5-reel games, hundreds of session, never produced a line of 5oak highest symbol. probably because roulette wins kill the other games. and by never i mean never, is not like in judiciary life means 20 years.
in this provider you can half collect the win as much as you wish and leave an ammount you are comfortable to gamble with. every bloody time without exception when you gamble straight without halfing a big risk(on this machine big is considered 30x plus) you will NEVER guess the card because you are not permitted to. many displays were being broken by players because of this. i walk 30 meters from home to play this crap but never the games just the roulette. enough for legal 50:50 i will record this too i will take my time.
 
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