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gambling cards they say 50:50 chance...

Discussion in 'Slots Discussion' started by syntynyt, Jul 28, 2017.

    Jul 28, 2017
  1. syntynyt

    syntynyt kuollut

    Location:
    ~
    14 blacks in a row. picked red every time. when i pick black is of course becoming Red. im talking about novomatics ability to screw me. after about 8 blacks in a row i start to wait for a big enough win to just double, thinking it cant go black forever. but the cards algorithm is built to serve exactly that kind of thinking, letting me think that chances are greater than 50% now to pick the red only to screw me indefinetly or until i gamble a small risk or press black to reveal by miracle a red. i lost all the money and finally gambled a small risk on BLACK and of course suddenly it was red.

    after playing merkur real machines for 1 full year i can tell that i have never come across over a sequence extended for more than 10 cards of the same color hence increasing my chance saving for a big double up, it worked countless times, never with novomatc. or a black and red on repeat sequence for more than 8-10 cards, never with merkur. it is possibly that is not random but rather established, makes me believe that if i write down all the cards i reveal the pattern. in novomatics columbus and burning target old versions the russian hackers did exactly that after gambling was forbidden in Russia, and because i gamble basically ~70% of the risks merkur may suffer from the same problem but it can be machine independent rather than to all machines variants like in novomatic case, i wish i could test :D. in either case, is not 50:50 how they falsely advertise. while in merkur it doesnt matter what kind of mega risk you gamble, you just need to guess the colour, the biggest i gambled was 250x bonus of legacy of fire and lots of 3 figure wins, in novomatic it may analyse the bet/win factor, not permitting you to go above and displaying the other card until it decides the risk is small enough to let you double. i play for a week online novos on admiral.ro powered by greentube malta, all legit, the bullshit sequences ive seen in cards is anything but 50:50 chance. i thought that the gamble in landbased is rigged, but is the same online. in merkur i close the risks up to my balls permit usually around 200x and is collecting the win by itself. in novomatic is simply impossible both in real machines and online, black and red is just a bloody animation, the picking factor does not exist on big risks, is more like the gamble in Reel King, you can press just gamble and let the slot do it for you. from 50:50 chance i expect randomness, a system inside that picks a single card color and is up to my luck if i choose it right, and then again and again until i lose, collect, or close the risk, no matter how big it is. novomatic used to rig the cards in their old machines that had american poker 2 once the player decided to go frenzy max bet and gambling all the risks, 2 pair, 3oak were won-able, straight and the above if was not lost on the last card was lost on the road, i never heard a full-house 4 cards on max bet singing the song that the risk is won. that rigged was novomatic gambling and continues to be with the illusion of picking factor, like deciding against how the machine was set up having a chance outside the regular press-start-good-luck. the advertisement in paytable of fifty-fifty is like how our conationals go to the west and play black n white game, a game designed to steal the player by believing is having a change of winning, much like novomatic gamble, is letting you choose the right color thinking your lucky, raise the bet and cry You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  2. Jul 28, 2017
  3. trancemonkey

    trancemonkey Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Games Producer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It is 50/50... 14 in a row is extremely unlikely but certainly not impossible.

    You have a 1 in 16393.442623 chance of getting 14 black cards ( or red cards ) in a row. That's not so rare as to be unlikely. It would've been far more rigged if the gamble could never do it...
     
  4. Jul 28, 2017
  5. syntynyt

    syntynyt kuollut

    Location:
    ~
    ive seen that rare event dozens of times, both in old machines and deluxe versions. not one day passes by without someone saying in any novomatic hall: how many reds, how many blacks? after several in a row of the same color people tend to stick with the other color, awaiting a big win or significantly raising the bet for a big risk to double up on that color. for example i play 1 euro, ive seen 10 blacks, i up my bets to 20 euros and wait for a small-medium win, that on 1 euro would have been big-mega, and i stick to red, what you think will happen than the machine continuing the rigged behavior of displaying countless blacks, how is this 50:50 really.
    the gambling is still unclear. on the screen is displayed the previous 5 colors, those that dont appear what happened to them, do they count in the economy of logic that eventually after lots of blacks a red MUST come? in wazdan machines(magic of the ring, clone of book of ra for reference) is displaying about 20 of the latest colors, in BDBA last 7 colors and is also offering like IGT, Play n Go the possibility of gambling on symbol of the card not just color. i have gambled in all softwares that offered it, i have never come across something like novomatic. are you 100% sure the picking factor counts, or better said it exists on big risks? my opinion is that if the risk is very high, like gambling a successful feature(in landbased, in online all wins of certain spins are independently gambled or collected) the possibility of doubling up is solely based of how much money was inserted/withdrawn from the machine. if you have more infos based solely on 2 color novomatic gambling id like to hear.
     
  6. Jul 28, 2017
  7. trancemonkey

    trancemonkey Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Games Producer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It's 50/50. It's legally 50/50. There's no reason to fix it. It runs at 100% RTP. Get a coin and toss it... Record the results. You'll see the same type of patterns ...
     
  8. Jul 28, 2017
  9. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    Yet some have seen a reason to fix it.. So the "no reason" argument has no merit (as every single time in discussions related to game fairness).
     
  10. Jul 28, 2017
  11. adamtheaddict

    adamtheaddict Senior Member

    Occupation:
    fruits
    Location:
    Kent
    If you ever paid attention to wesley in passenger 57 you would have unlocked the secret.
     
  12. Jul 28, 2017
  13. trancemonkey

    trancemonkey Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Games Producer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    You're misunderstanding my point... If you're a dodgy company who doesn't care about law or morality then of course you might rig anything. However outside of being dodgy, there is no gameplay or mathematical reason to fix it. I would never ever purposely design in to a game something which is likely to piss players off. If I was likely to compensate or rig a game, and in any way thought I could get away with it, I would be a hell of a lot more subtle than anything you guys have described so far...
     
  14. Jul 28, 2017
  15. syntynyt

    syntynyt kuollut

    Location:
    ~
    to put it differently, leaving outside the colors and working with the 50% chance of a double up in all scenarios. you are saying that a rare feature win, lets saying 500x, have 50% chance to be doubled by guessing the next color? is really a guessing game between A and B on gambling big risks? surely the gambling feature is not connected with the RTP of the machine/game, the in/out countmeter is not playing any role? in novomatic landbased old machines and new cabinets you can gamble anything, ive seen 5 dolphins in dolphins pearl in base game, it was not automatically collected, that win technically had 50% chance to be doubled according to you.
     
  16. Jul 28, 2017
  17. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    Actually now remember some B&M machines where the gamble on micro wins (related to stake) had a ridiculously high success rate whereas the higher wins had a somewhat normal win/loss rate. Could have been some older Atronic ones.


    No I'm not. There is a reason to fix it and that is of course financial gain. And rigging games has to date had no consequences to those involved, the SkillOnNet scoundrels for example has licenses in about every jurisdiction. And gambling companies hardly care about morality or law, especially online ones.

    And the only softwares that have been busted (by players in every case) have been amateurish in their crime when they have done it so easily detectable. A bit more thought and they would never have been caught.
     
  18. Jul 28, 2017
  19. trancemonkey

    trancemonkey Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Games Producer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Correct... It's purely a 50% chance. It's boom or bust. Double or nothing. Mathematically costs the game nothing. The only reason to limit it is to do with exposure.
     
  20. Jul 28, 2017
  21. trancemonkey

    trancemonkey Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Games Producer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Not strictly true with the new RTP monitoring... But anything is possible of course. I don't know the SkillOnNet issue so I can't comment
     
  22. Jul 28, 2017
  23. judgenico

    judgenico Experienced Member MM

    Occupation:
    postal worker
    Location:
    norfolk
    reminds me of that interesting statistic that if you was playing roulette and allowed to do so starting with say a pound, euro how many double ups say on red or black would it take to reach a million,ask your friends this question and off the top of their heads they would probably over estimate the amount of times but its actually 20 does not seem that improbable when you see like you say those type of runs on the slots
     
  24. Jul 28, 2017
  25. interlog

    interlog Senior Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    London
    The question begs why the hell you would use the gamble function. Talk about adding extra variance to what are already high enough variance games when you're talking about Merkur's and Novomatics.
     
  26. Jul 28, 2017
  27. syntynyt

    syntynyt kuollut

    Location:
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    it is because i cant resist the urge :D merkur have a lot of medium variance games in their machines, it is the only provider on which im way up overall. also i like to feel that im contributing to my (dis)advantage rather than letting the game alone play its role. ive made consistent withdrawals just for gambling a few wins, i lost deposits because i gambled all big risks in a tilt mode. is part of the game, and have my reservation about novo fairness on big risks, doesnt feel predetermined nor random, more like analyzing the position, bet vs win, who knows what mechanism it uses.

    and accorning to trancemonkey i dont add extra variance, its 50:50 chance of doubling 5 explorers expanded in book of ra bonus to a trillion dollars.
     
  28. Jul 28, 2017
  29. trancemonkey

    trancemonkey Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Games Producer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Noooo

    You add a lot of variance.. by gambling you are making the game even more volatile especially if you gamble only high wins. You don't affect RTP in the long run but you absolutely affect volatility.
     
  30. Jul 28, 2017
  31. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    The random 50-50 gamble is a casino thing attached to the slot and yes it will state 100% RTP on the gamble but the point here is whether or not it has any algorithm or value for the amount integrated. If it did it would explain why despite producing 100% RTP in the long-term, that lower amounts are weighted more favourably for the player which is what syntynt has observed. I never use the function, it's pointless.
     
  32. Jul 28, 2017
  33. syntynyt

    syntynyt kuollut

    Location:
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    thanks for the translation, 100% my point.
    "the point here is whether or not it has any algorithm or value for the amount integrated'
     
  34. Jul 28, 2017
  35. Mark_32Red

    Mark_32Red Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos

    Occupation:
    Head of Marketing
    Location:
    32Red Marketing Dpt
    This thread reminds me of a very short visit to the empire casino in London many years back after a reasonably profitable day at Ascot.

    'Oohlook' said naive me when I saw 8/9 blacks in a row.

    Put down a medium bet on Red.

    Lost.

    'This can't be right' said me. Forgetting the 50:50 rule. Another (bigger) bet.

    Lost.

    Won't bore you with the full details but my racing winnings took a dent for sure and it could have been a similar run.

    Mark
     
  36. Jul 29, 2017
  37. trancemonkey

    trancemonkey Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Games Producer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Not as far as I'm aware - and for good reason. I've never used one other than a straight 50/50 choice and that's because you can't force anyone to gamble - if you had an algorithm to alter the chance for lower amounts versus higher amounts and no one ever gambled a high value you'd never hit the 100% RTP. It's just not worth it. Again, it would be illegal under UKGC and MGA technical standards to do this.
     
  38. Jul 30, 2017
  39. slotter999

    slotter999 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Player
    Location:
    UK
    On the land based novomatics haven't there been issues with the gamble feature which ended up being exploited?

    One involved losing gambles resulting in almost instant bonus retriggers or something similar?

    I'm quoting you as I'm sure I saw an old post of yours in the subject.

    As for the gambles I think it might have been that beetle game whereby someone figured out the gamble sequence so could predetermine what the next card would be which doesn't sound very random.
     

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