Full Tilt Money Management???

4 of a kind

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Mar 11, 2009
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New York
I think many players will realize what these sites were and are actually doing with all the money, as the inside mud slowly gets to the media. Unlike PokerStars, players money reaching home from Full Tilt are not looking good.

The first paragraph about Phil Ivey and his lawsuit against Full Tilt leaves me unsure of his actual intentions. He would want us to believe that after all these years he never knew or asked a single thing of what they were doing. I guess as long as he was getting his cut that 's all that mattered.

As far as him boycotting the WSOP this year, personally I think he's in fear for his life. I bet many other pros won't be showing either. I think many players will connect the pros to the sites they pushed for all these years, and are bitter, since many trusted the sites because of the pros. Read what happened to John Juanda at a table.

Apparently P.S. did things right on their own. But I also would bet if their was regulation being enforced, the players lost monies today would have been forced to be in the right place for the players safety all along. So much for self regulation.

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PlexRep

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Malta
Read what happened to John Juanda at a table.

If you mean the altercation with James Bord, that's more likely to do with an argument they had in Macau than the Full Tilt debacle..
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I'm not sure I agree with you that the pro's would (or should) be fearful of a physical backlash from players. Yeah it looks bad for them to be affiliated with the site right now but I would hope that most players would know where the blame really lies.

When the Playstation network was hacked and taken down recently... I didn't bear any grudges against the many celebs who have endorsed the product. Maybe I'm being too nice, but I really don't think the pro's would have signed on as the pubic face of these sites if they thought this mess would ever happen.

Just my two cents as always.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
It appears from initial WSOP coverage that in fact there's been a good turnout of the international pros so far.
 

4 of a kind

Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll
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If you mean the altercation with James Bord, that's more likely to do with an argument they had in Macau than the Full Tilt debacle..
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Your probably right about that. I was basing my comments on the way it sounded in that article I linked too in my post. (see below)

In addition, I also agree that players should not hold responsible any of the pros for sponsoring any of the alleged past top poker sites. The perks pros received from poker sites is every poker players envy.

Yet, the allegations being made below is becoming typical and expected when bad things happen involving gambling regardless of the circumstances surrounding them. It's these type of comments or facts that drag gambling affiliation through the mud, and always leaving the impression to others that there's always something shady taking place behind the scenes when gambling is involved. (especially online)

More Bad News and Bad Press for Full Tilt Poker.
The Department of Justice announced that it has not allowed the release of any bank accounts despite the rumors to the contrary from Full Tilt Poker.
Brazilian and South American players are reporting that they cannot withdraw from Full Tilt Poker.
John Juanda, FTP Team Pro, was verbally assaulted at WSOP table by James Bord requiring an escort out of the poker room.
Nick "MiTurtle" Rainey appeared on the QuadJacks Radio Show and went into great detail on the inner workings of FTP and and employee named Chris Porter.
Among allegations made during the interview:

* 100% Rakeback accounts, ie "Red Pro" status, were sold by employees for $50,000 or rented for $10k plus $2k a month.
* Patrick Antonius, a "Team Pro", used over 40 different accounts that Nick established as his assistant so PA 'could get action'.
* David Benyamine owes Full Tilt millions. Apparently a low level player manager at FTP kept transferring money to DB even though he was on a massive downswing and completely out of control. Ray Bitar had to personally intervene to terminate the employee and stop the transfers.
* Poker Royalty, Inc. operated as the business agent between FTP and its Team/Red Pros collecting 20% monthly.
* Full Tilt operated on "Handshakes" and verbal agreements. Very little of FTP's business was conducted by written contract and only minimum email correspondence to protect itself from lawsuits.
* Full Tilt payed its bills and contracts into poker accounts rather than direct check or transfer. Many service providers were caught with hundreds of thousands of dollars locked up in the DOJ seizures.
* Full Tilt refused to pay a $300,000 win to a student of Nick Rainey despite a history of 7,000 games and $12,000 in previous cash outs.
* Full Tilt used player funds to finance the "Rush Poker" media blitz and advertising campaign believing they would earn it back.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Lots of dirty laundry being aired which true or false does little for the companies so accused, I fear.

These are disturbing assertions...I wonder whether we will see confirmation by way of futher disclosures or legal actions.
 

CasinoBeacon

Dormant Account
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
United Kingdom
Things are worse than I thought for Full Tilt. Perhaps I've been too out of the loop with the poker side of things but I really thought that it was only US-based players who were unable to withdraw from Full Tilt.

Not so. I'm in the UK and Full Tilt are telling me they are unable to pay out any withdrawals and don't know when they will be able to do so - and yet they're still accepting deposits.
 

pokeraddict

Webmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2002
Location
Las Vegas
There have been many player complaints about cashouts from FTP, especially to Moneybookers. I have two friends that tried to cash out over 10k each right after Black Friday and neither have been paid yet. There are countless other forum posts about the same issue, large cashouts are not getting processed.
 

CasinoBeacon

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Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
United Kingdom
Thanks for the update, pokeraddict.

I would recommend that players report the matter to Moneybookers, as I have done. Full Tilt cannot be allowed to continue accepting deposits when they have no means/intention of paying winnnings.

Moneybookers can be e-mailed directly at [email protected]

MB have told me they're investigating.
 

CasinoBeacon

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Sep 22, 2010
Location
United Kingdom
I meant to add - it's not just large cashouts that are not being processed. My withdrawal was just $50 - and they can't tell me if or when it'll ever be processed.
 

CasinoBeacon

Dormant Account
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
United Kingdom
Okay, another update - just checked my inbox and I've had this useless reply from MB:

"This is to confirm that we have received reports from customers complaining about being unable to withdraw funds from FullTilt Poker. Unfortunately, it appears that at this time Moneybookers is not available as a withdrawal option on the FullTilt website. We cannot provide you with a time-frame in which the issue will be fixed since any delay falls solely with the operator in question(Full Tilt).

Unfortunately we have no visibility on your account details with their site or the impact of their current investigation. For questions related to your balance or any payouts we would therefore advise you to contact their service department directly."

I've contacted MB again, with this question - "Why are you allowing Full Tilt to accept Moneybookers deposits when they are not issuing payouts?"

I'm wondering why MB are throwing their customers to the dogs here. Not great.
 

CasinoBeacon

Dormant Account
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
United Kingdom
This is getting worse. I have received the following amazing response from Moneybookers, regarding Full Tilt:

"Further to our correspondence we would like to inform you that it is entirely the merchant’s decision to choose if they would support Moneybookers as a withdrawal option. Moneybookers is a payment provider and as such, it has been our responsibility to issue an amount of e-money you have deposited via your preferred option and process the payment to the merchant. We would like to kindly advise you to turn to them for further assistance on how you can withdraw your funds."

My reply:

"Your reply is both surprising and disappointing. You are allowing Full Tilt
to rip off their/your customers by taking payments (via Moneybookers) when
you are fully aware that the merchant has no intention of/ability to pay its
customers."

I have informed Moneybookers that I intend to report on their inaction. I'm stunned that they are intentionally and knowingly allowing a merchant to rip off their customers. I am looking into the options of reporting this matter to the FSA. Any comments from experts in this field would be appreciated. You can PM me if you'd prefer.
 

CasinoBeacon

Dormant Account
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
United Kingdom
I've received a further e-mail from Moneybookers today, pretty much telling me that they have no intention of changing their policy of sending their customers' money to a rogue poker room. This is happening when MB are fully aware that their customers cannot withdraw any winnings.

Moneybookers are fast becoming a rogue outfit themselves. I am today escalating this matter to the FSA.
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
Is FullTilt not licensed somewhere? You'd think their license would be 'pulled' or whatever you do about such things. FullTilt continues to take players deposits, let them play, but can't pay them?

I suspect they are allowed to continue in operation so they can accumulate some funds. **sigh** I realize that most/much/a lot of their funds have been gobbled up by the feds, but come onnnnnnn.

This is all such a freaking mess. I'm sorry the DOJ has brought this on. And I'm sorry there are no regulators or licensors with any balls.
 

CasinoBeacon

Dormant Account
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
United Kingdom
To be 'fair' to Full Tilt, they're being pretty blatant in their ripping off of their players. They're just doing what a dodgy site does - rip people off.

If these dodgy payment processors (that's you, Moneybookers) didn't validate these rogue poker rooms by sending players' money to them, Full Tilt wouldn't be able to take money that they can't/won't return.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Interesting article from Subject:poker.com which claims that from around September 2010 to February 2011 Full Tilt Poker was accepting deposits from players and crediting the amounts to their Full Tilt accounts, but not drawing the funds from the players' bank accounts.

In other words, as the report succinctly summarises, Full Tilt gave its players funds to use on its site for nothing.

Although the phenomenon was widely discussed and speculated upon in player circles, the extent of the practice was not appreciated until one of the Black Friday indictees, Bradley Franzen, pleaded guilty, and the enforcement authorities issued a press release that appears to confirm the alleged tactics used by the online poker provider.

Specifically one paragraph in the release which claims:

"....Franzen admitted that in early 2011 he had been asked to help Full Tilt Poker deal with a $60 million shortfall created by the company’s inability to find a payment processor to process transactions involving U.S. player accounts. The company was facing the shortfall because it continued to credit funds to player accounts despite being unable to actually debit (or”pull”) funds from customers."

As Subject:poker.com notes: "In other words, this was not simply an accident, as many had suspected. Full Tilt Poker was actually accepting deposits and crediting player accounts without payment processors in place to collect the money....effectively [it had] given players loans without telling them, under the assumption that [it] could collect the debt later.”

Read the full article here:
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rossenmb

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Location
Sofia/London
Moneybookers has stopped accepting deposits made to Full Tilt Poker

Hi everyone,

My name is Rossen, and I am the Affiliate Manager at Moneybookers. As this thread also concerns our business with Full Tilt Poker, please see our official update on the situation below:

Our customers are the most important part of our business. That is why we have, from today, stopped accepting deposits made to Full Tilt Poker. Over the last couple of weeks, we’ve become aware of a situation where Full Tilt has not honoured customer pay-outs and we’ve been working to try and resolve this issue on our customers’ behalf. Unfortunately this hasn’t been possible and today’s suspension of their license by the Alderney Gambling Commission has validated our decision. We apologise for any inconvenience caused to our customers and hope you understand that extraordinary circumstances, beyond our control, have brought about this action.

Best regards,
Rossen Yordanov
 

herlisfood

Full Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2003
Location
Philippines
copied this article from www.32redpokerblog.com


Full Tilt forced to shut down
June 29, 2011 by AngusD
Filed under World News

Full Tilt forced to shut down

Online poker’s Black Friday was very bad news indeed for US-facing poker rooms, but 29th June 2011 could well be remembered as Woeful Wednesday for Full Tilt after its license was suspended by the Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC).

After ordering Full Tilt to suspend all operations with immediate effect (so immediate, according to reports, that shutdown occurred during play), the AGCC said in a statement:

The decision to suspend these licenses follows a special investigation prompted by the
indictments unsealed by US Attorney General’s Office in the Southern District of New York on 15th April 2011, during which grounds were found to indicate that these licensees and their business associates were operating contrary to Alderney legislation. The nature of the findings necessitated the taking of immediate action in the public interest.

Thus those remaining players who had taken the potentially risky decision to continue their involvement with the troubled site found the online room being suddenly closed down, with prospects looking bleak if the AGCC’s subsequent statement is anything to go by – not least due to the fact that the site will be out of action until late July.

The following AGCC statement sheds further light on the plight of Black Friday’s most high profile casualties:

In the matters of:-

VANTAGE LIMITED
OXALIC LIMITED
FILCO LIMITED
And
ORINIC LIMITED

Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC) has today issued Hearing Notices under Regulation 46 of the Alderney eGambling Regulations, 2009 to the above named companies who collectively trade as FULL TILT POKER.

In addition, AGCC has issued Suspension Notices under Regulation 47 of the Alderney eGambling Regulations, 2009 to the above named companies requiring them to immediately suspend operations.

The above named companies must, until the Suspension Notices are cancelled or the Commissioners of AGCC have reached a determination at the conclusion of the hearing convened in accordance with Regulation 46 of the Alderney eGambling Regulations, 2009 cease to exercise their eGambling licenses, which means that these licensees must from today cease to:-


 Register new customers;
 Accept deposits from existing customers;
 Allow existing customers to withdraw funds that are held in their accounts; and
 Permit customers to participate in any form of poker game play or gambling transaction.


The Alderney Gambling Control Commission will hear the matters contained in the Hearing Notices at a Regulatory Hearing which will commence at 10.00am on Tuesday 26th July, 2011 at the Victoria Park Plaza Hotel, 239 Vauxhall Bridge Road, London SW1V 1EQ. In the event that there is a change to these details this notice will be amended.

André Wilsenach (Executive Director)
Alderney Gambling Control Commission
Alderney, Channel Islands
29th June, 2011


If a week is a long time in politics, then a month is an eternity in online poker, and this could be a stormy, disastrous summer for Full Tilt as yet more players decide it is time to switch to safe, legal, properly regulated non-US facing poker rooms.

Angus Dunnington
32 Red Poker Ambassador
 

4 of a kind

Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Location
New York
Hi everyone,

My name is Rossen, and I am the Affiliate Manager at Moneybookers. As this thread also concerns our business with Full Tilt Poker, please see our official update on the situation below:

Our customers are the most important part of our business. That is why we have, from today, stopped accepting deposits made to Full Tilt Poker. Over the last couple of weeks, we’ve become aware of a situation where Full Tilt has not honoured customer pay-outs and we’ve been working to try and resolve this issue on our customers’ behalf. Unfortunately this hasn’t been possible and today’s suspension of their license by the Alderney Gambling Commission has validated our decision. We apologise for any inconvenience caused to our customers and hope you understand that extraordinary circumstances, beyond our control, have brought about this action.

Best regards,
Rossen Yordanov


This problem with customer pay-outs has been taking place for 6 weeks already. I guess the overabundance of customer complaints over this past month wasn't enough to validate your company to stop depositing to Full Tilt 6 weeks ago, while an investigation by your company should have long been in place.

Now you show your face here and who knows where else trying to play off your concerns after they were shut down, and probably for good.

Why don't you and your commissions take a walk...
 

cdomi66

Dormant Account
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Location
Calgary, AB
curious...

Are you American's not able to get together, via petitions etc and get your laws changed? Have you no options or is it just general apathy that let's them make the decisions and take away your basic freedoms and rights?

*this is not a flame, just a genuine question as I don't know how your government works*
 

4 of a kind

Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Location
New York
Are you American's not able to get together, via petitions etc and get your laws changed? Have you no options or is it just general apathy that let's them make the decisions and take away your basic freedoms and rights?

*this is not a flame, just a genuine question as I don't know how your government works*


Actually this article I linked you to below explains it pretty well. Also apathy is a perfect word that describes most in this country.

Apathy:
1.absence or suppression of passion, emotion, or excitement.
2.lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting.

Apathy is for most until something directly involves someone personally, then the word is activist.

Activist:
1.an especially active, vigorous advocate of a cause, especially a political cause.

It was amazing to actually live all of my 58 years in the USA and be an eye witness to such achievements. It's now actually becoming frightening with the uncertainty and bizarre behavior of most of our leaders over the past decade. I'm still not sure what it will take to at least get everyone to vote and change our direction once and for all. The main problem here is every candidate seems to be just some more of the same, just a different name.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/interesting-article.44721/
 
Last edited:

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi everyone,

My name is Rossen, and I am the Affiliate Manager at Moneybookers. As this thread also concerns our business with Full Tilt Poker, please see our official update on the situation below:

Our customers are the most important part of our business. That is why we have, from today, stopped accepting deposits made to Full Tilt Poker. Over the last couple of weeks, we’ve become aware of a situation where Full Tilt has not honoured customer pay-outs and we’ve been working to try and resolve this issue on our customers’ behalf. Unfortunately this hasn’t been possible and today’s suspension of their license by the Alderney Gambling Commission has validated our decision. We apologise for any inconvenience caused to our customers and hope you understand that extraordinary circumstances, beyond our control, have brought about this action.

Best regards,
Rossen Yordanov

You were being MADE aware long before that, but you had a policy of "fobbing off" your customers, whilst letting other unwitting victims to continue depositing into a "black hole". The fact that they had suddenly started breaking that "golden rule" that to prevent fraud all withdrawals are returned to the method of deposit up to the sum of said deposits should have alarmed you right away that there was more to this than a mere "technical problem".

Further, the fact that UK players couldn't get their money out by any means should have been MOST alarming.

Under UK law, YOU could find yourself liable to players' banks due to your inaction, and complaints are already being made to the FSA, who have granted you an e-money issuers licence. If the FSA feel that your lack of due dilligence has caused players to put money into an insolvent operation, and that you should have known that there were clear signs of such problems, you could find that license revoked, along with an embarrassing press release to cover it.

Most players EXPECT that when you accept someone for a merchant account, they have had to jump through similar hoops as players have experienced, and you are thus seen to be endorsing that merchant by continuing to allow them the merchant facilty to take money through the service, giving a false level of confidence to players that the merchant is able to safeguard their money.

This will now do damage to YOUR reputation, as it makes it clear that you don't have much in the way of ongoing monitoring of a merchant, and that you are going to be the LAST to notice that something has gone wrong.

It was just before the seizure was announced that players were finding that sums as little as $250 were hard to cash out, and when it was announced that non-US players were being limited to being able to cash out a mere $250 per week, it should have SCREAMED "funding crisis", as it clearly did with players.

Given that poker is played with MUCH higher bankrolls than most casino players have at risk, a paltry $250 per week limit should have shone like a beacon as a warning that things were VERY bad indeed. At this point, you should have at least prevented deposits greater than the amounts that could realistically be withdrawn on a $250 per week basis, and when even this paltry amount was too much for them to be able to pay out weekly, the deposit function should have been shut down in order to protect your customers, and should have stayed this way until it was demonstrated that withdrawals were again flowing back to non-US players on a "business as usual" basis.

If it is confirmed that the group is insolvent, and cannot pay back players, Moneybookers could find itself in the firing line as UK players look to their banks for redress under UK law. EU based players may have similar legal rights, and only non EU players will have a serious problem in making Moneybookers responsible.

Neteller and other ewallets could find themselves in the same position too if they continued to allow deposits when it became clear that the group couldn't pay anybody, not just US players.

This brings home the fact that our money is NOT as secure as we might think with these e-wallets, who do NOT have to protect us to the same level as banks do.


Whilst "FSA regulated" is often prominent on the website, the fact that balances are NOT actually covered by the UK compensation scheme, or it's EU equivalents, is only to be found in the "small print".

When UK and EU poker players find out, they may no longer be trusting enough to play with such large bankrolls, and this will be to the detriment of the whole online poker industry.

It could also be the first time that non-US players have had their money wiped out because of "this US issue".

I am sure many players will be angry about this all the while Alderney keeps them "on hold" pending the outcome of the investigation, which could be many months, possibly longer.
 

babysister

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Location
Hou, Tx. USA
IS IT REALLY TRUE THAT FULL TILT HAS BEEN SHUT DOWN?

I just read a post that Alderney suspends Full Tilt's operating licence 29/06/2011.
 

babysister

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Location
Hou, Tx. USA
FULL TILT'S LICENCES SUSPENDED BY AGCC

The Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC) has suspended Full Tilt’s licences, requiring the poker room to suspend all operations from the jurisdiction with immediate effect.

The AGCC said in a statement this morning: “The decision to suspend these licenses follows a special investigation prompted by the indictments unsealed by US Attorney General’s Office in the Southern District of New York on 15th April 2011, during which grounds were found to indicate that these licensees and their business associates were operating contrary to Alderney legislation."
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
The Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC) has suspended Full Tilt’s licences, requiring the poker room to suspend all operations from the jurisdiction with immediate effect.

The AGCC said in a statement this morning: “The decision to suspend these licenses follows a special investigation prompted by the indictments unsealed by US Attorney General’s Office in the Southern District of New York on 15th April 2011, during which grounds were found to indicate that these licensees and their business associates were operating contrary to Alderney legislation."

It's true, and seems to have some serious implications for players with money trapped there.

Alderney have not only shut them down, but PROHIBITED them from giving players back their money. They are completely frozen until this investigation is concluded.
 
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