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Fuc**ng Skrill

Discussion in 'Payment Processing Issues' started by miksaxxx, Aug 5, 2016.

    Aug 5, 2016
  1. miksaxxx

    miksaxxx Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Computer related
    Location:
    Finland
    Always thinked when this time comes to guestions..:D





    Dear Mikko *******,

    As part of our customer verification procedure, we are required to collect specific information from a range of partners and customers.

    We are therefore contacting you to request that you complete the attached Source of Wealth form and provide the selected verifying document in order to meet our verification requirements.

    Please complete, sign and send us the attached form in your reply to this email including your selected document as evidence.

    Please be advised that if we do not receive a response from you within 28 days, your account will be temporarily de-activated until this verification is completed.


    We appreciate your understanding on this requirement.


    Best regards,
    The Skrill Team
     
  2. Aug 5, 2016
  3. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    Out of interest, would you post a blank copy of this Source of Wealth form?

    Although I've read here of casinos asking for proof deposits are from a legit source, this is the first I've heard of Skrill asking for such.

    I know for most us gamblers, our ewallets are basically just the same money, plus some from our own pockets, moving back and forth from the various casinos we play at.
     
  4. Aug 5, 2016
  5. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    I will keep this polite, my initial reaction was not so....

    That has to be the cheekiest request I have ever heard of, actually asking where your cash/funds come from :what::what:

    Its not exactly like their fee's are player friendly either!

    How very rude of Skrill :mad:
     
  6. Aug 5, 2016
  7. goatwack

    goatwack Denny, two is great, but three is a crowd CAG

    Occupation:
    Stuntman
    Location:
    Londonia
    What does the name "Skrill" mean?

    S is for secret, that you can certainly keep.

    K is for kindle, the warmth in others.

    R is for relish, you seek a challenge.

    I is for impressive, your list of qualities.

    L is for luster, your shine.

    L is for life, that you live so well.

    That's not what I found over the years! Stupid internet!
     
  8. Aug 5, 2016
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I have not had the same, but something pretty similar, from Neteller.

    They didn't want forms, but they did want statements.

    A couple of questions were utterly ridiculous, like asking me what I used my Neteller account for and with which merchants. This of course implies they accept any old merchant, and do not do any due diligence on who they accept, hence they need customers to tell them that when a transaction of -£200 goes out to the merchant "32Red" or +£4000 comes in from merchant "32Red" the Monday following the completion of the £20 Tournament, they need me to tell them what line of business "32Red" is in.

    Not only was it utterly ridiculous, but I sent them the answer THREE TIMES, yet each time they emailed back saying they hadn't heard from me. Strange, because they DID receive all the other emails for this exercise, including the one containing my ID document. They also received the email where I told them they should be able to answer two of the questions simply from looking at my account record.

    The final question WAS pretty much a "source of wealth" one, and my answer was that I withdraw to my bank when I am doing so well that my Neteller balance gets higher than I am likely to need, and fund my Neteller in bad times from the money that I earlier withdrew in better times.

    They were happy with this, and never did manage to receive my answers to the middle two questions, and eventually they said they didn't need to pursue the matter, and they considered me properly verified, at least until the next time.

    Both Skrill and Neteller are now the same company, and they are in the line of business of providing a wallet solution for online gamblers, so it should not be necessary for them to ask what payments and receipts are for so long as the player is using the service for gambling, and this is something they can determine from the merchants involved in the transactions.

    It's P2P payments that are wide open to abuse, and where they would need to ask these kinds of questions, but as I don't do P2P, the questions are pointless.

    They are likely to lose customers over this, because the average person does NOT get asked this kind of thing in everyday life by their bank for their everyday transactions. It is something people might have to deal with when making very large transactions, such as paying cash for a house purchase, but normally a solicitor would be involved, and they would deal with it.

    When I had those big wins a few years ago, my bank account suddenly had something of the order of £40K arrive in a relatively short period of time. Now whilst I did receive a letter from the bank asking me to come in, it wasn't to do with any questions about where I had got this money from, it was a sales pitch to grab some of it for themselves by selling me their own investment products. They probably SHOULD have asked me where this money had come from, because all they would have seen was a transfer from Neteller's own bank, which would have told them the money had come from my Neteller account, but nothing about how it got there.

    Despite all this and "F&*^%$* Skrill", casinos still say they don't trust these two wallets because they are a "hotbed of player fraud", yet they seem far more anal than the banks and card providers when it comes to questions like source of wealth and what the transactions made are about. Of course, this may be in response to the casinos freezing wallet users out of all promotions, and even out of the casino completely. Neteller may have woken up to the fact that casinos are pushing their customers to a competing service, bank cards, and think they need to be seen to be doing something robust to counter the "hotbed of fraud" impression held by casinos so that they stop pushing players towards bank cards.
     
    6 people like this.
  10. Aug 5, 2016
  11. hedgehok

    hedgehok Senior Member mm3

    Occupation:
    self-employed
    Location:
    Germany
    I was asked the same @OP. I'm going to figure out what's the purpose and especially the legal basis for the request.

    For all that are interested in the form itself I'm going to post it in a minute.
     
    2 people like this.
  12. Aug 5, 2016
  13. hedgehok

    hedgehok Senior Member mm3

    Occupation:
    self-employed
    Location:
    Germany
    ----------------------- Page 1-----------------------

    SOURCE OF WEALTH DECLARATION



    ‘Source of Wealth describes the way (or ways) in which you accumulated the money being used to fund

    your Skrill account’. Skrill Limited, as an authorised Electronic Money Issuer in the United Kingdom,

    is obligated to collect the following information:



    Please complete the following form



    I,__________________________________________________ ,____________________________

    NAME OCCUPATION



    of_________________________________________________________________________________

    RESIDENTIAL ADDRESS



    Hereby:



    1. Declare the source of wealth for funds used in my Skrill Account(s) is:



    Salary / Self Employed income



    Assets/Investing



    Trading



    Gambling



    Other (Please indicate) _____________________________________________________



    2. Declare and represent that the funds uploaded to my Skrill Account have been acquired

    legitimately



    3. Confirm that the information in the present Declaration is true and accurate



    Please see over page and complete form as per the instructions


    ----------------------- Page 2-----------------------

    4. Please select and attach one of the supporting documents listed below which corresponds with

    your chosen source of wealth (Note: Trading & Gambling require 2 screenshots):



    Salary / Self Employed income



    last 3 months payslip



    letter from employer on complany letterhead

    3 months of bank statements showing salary payments



    contract / agreement for self-employed services

    copies of invoices



    Assets/Investing



    company bank statement



    letter of will



    certified investment certificate contract notes



    certified copy of contract of sale



    certified copy of latest audited company accounts



    Trading



    screenshots as evidence of trading account(s)



    - one showing account registration details



    - one showing recent trades placed / trading history / transaction history



    Gambling



    Screenshots as evidence of gambling account(s)



    - one showing account registration details



    - one showing recent bets placed / betting history / transaction history



    Other



    Please provide documentary evidence of your listed source of wealth, for the funds

    used in your skrill account, we will advise you if we require anything further



    ________________________________________ ________________________________________

    DATE

    E-SIGNATURE



    Please E-Sign and reply directly to the email you received.



    Please be advised if you prefer to print, sign and scan the document this is acceptable.
     
    10 people like this.
  14. Aug 5, 2016
  15. weesie

    weesie Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Old bag lady with a laptop
    That list of information requested is insane!

    Surprised it doesn't ask for transfer of first born son.
     
    3 people like this.
  16. Aug 5, 2016
  17. bowki

    bowki Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Germany
    If they ever ask me to fill this form its gonna be the last day i use them. Where my money comes from is nothing of their concern. Its not like i use cash to fill up my account, it comes from my bank account. And my bank knows me and where my money comes from and that has to be enough.
     
    4 people like this.
  18. Aug 5, 2016
  19. hedgehok

    hedgehok Senior Member mm3

    Occupation:
    self-employed
    Location:
    Germany
    Yes, it's a (bad) joke really. I'm going to take a couple of gambling related screenshots and fill out the form and see if they accept it.

    Big Brother is watching you...
     
    5 people like this.
  20. Aug 5, 2016
  21. cnichas

    cnichas Experienced Member MM PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Self Employed,
    Location:
    Johannesburg
    Agreed 100%

    I couldn't agree with you more if they send me that nonsense my reply will be to simply close the account
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
    2 people like this.
  22. Aug 5, 2016
  23. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    I actually find the term wealth pretty funny.

    Now the request to show a registered account details is not difficult. But it is not very clear what they mean by recent activity etc. Past month? Last week.

    Just that one casino? I don't think anyone would want to trawl through all my individual bets from 32Red or Videoslots. I don't even want to do it.

    Activities at all casinos, by all methods? It would be a nightmare.

    I remember a few years back, I think it was the year I was $1000 up, but it might have been the year I was $600 down, I remarked to a friend how surprised I was I had deposited nearly $14,000 at this one casino, one that was not one of my main casinos. She was floored, that was probably in the neighbourhood of my yearly income. I laughed, explained I withdrew just about $60 move over the year, just slightly over $14K, and went on to quote some much larger amounts, with similar small net wins or losses, and a place or two that I was up quite a bit, and a couple down quite a bit

    If this is going out to multiple players, it may just be a thresh hold of activity, and for the majority of players they won't even really care what it is you send, as long as they have asked to comply with their interpretation of anti-money laundering legislation.

    Neither one of our members here that have posted are even from one of the countries that get extra scrutiny.

    While I do understand why you would feel it intrusive, unless they pry further after one casino being sent.

    And it's often that our wealth is not recent, should w have any. Source of funds might be a better term.
     
    2 people like this.
  24. Aug 5, 2016
  25. miksaxxx

    miksaxxx Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Computer related
    Location:
    Finland
    Holy sh**.

    I havent opened it yet. But , readed document just from your Post..

    Ok, i need to take some screenshots too. :eek:
     
  26. Aug 6, 2016
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    If they do this to UK customers, they will have to face the DPA. This provides for companies only asking for data that is "necessary" for what they need to do, and prohibits "fishing expeditions" or the gathering of excessive amounts of data.

    The declaration should be enough in itself where the funding comes from sources like the bank, as the banks would have carried out the due diligence necessary on those funds. They may also lose customers over this because this requirement means that customers can no longer keep their gambling private from their bank and employer because they will need to ask for some of this documentation, and this might lead to their gambling coming to light with their bank or employer.

    They may only have asked one player here so far to actually fill in this form and supply all these documents, but they seem to have a well prepared form, so it suggests this is something many of their customers will be facing in future.

    Banks don't do this kind of regular and intrusive data trawling. They do their checks upon opening the account, and then they have to verify electronically the transactions, and this is usually enough.

    To avoid the main bank finding out about the gambling, open a second account with a different banking group and use that account for gambling. Choose a bank you never want a loan or mortgage from, as you will find it hard to get one because of the gambling.
     
  28. Aug 6, 2016
  29. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    Two. Milsaxxx, the OP, and Hedgehok as well. Hedgehok has sent some stuff already, and it looks like the OP is prepared to do the same.

    Given that these are both two senior members, I don't think Skrill is on any kind of witch hunt, I'll assume it's more amounts. If they fund their gaming with an anonymous payment source like vouchers, then perhaps it is a request made for this (considerable) group of players.

    For most employees, they can just send a paystub, so it doesn't get their employers involved. At least it looks like any of the list, not all of it for the heading. If they don't receive payslips or have bank deposits to show, then they need a letter from their employer.

    Self-employed, I would not be too thrilled. It's rotten enough to get that stuff together for the taxman, especially the small business owner with no help.

    As a gambler, using it for gambling, I wouldn't find it too hard to comply. Had they not left the Canadian market, I'd be using them still for an ewallet. I was approaching Gold Status, and while I've forgotten the numbers, it's a lot of play. But I'm sure I'd have reached it by now given my recent luck.


    I think it boils down to how badly you want to continue using Skrill. If I could go back to it from ecopayz, I would. If you have Neteller as well, it might not be as important to you. But keep in mind that both are now linked.

    I'm sure both members will keep us posted on how it goes.

    I will say that the one time I did have a problem, I did not find Skrill's support to be all that prompt or helpful. Hope they are swift approving things for you guys.
     
    2 people like this.
  30. Aug 6, 2016
  31. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Calm down everybody.

    This is probably a random AML check where 1/1000 or even just 1/10,000 customers is picked, especially from accounts with high turnover and the form is then sent out.

    Once received back it will go into their archives to be able to satisfy any government agency who might be doing an audit at some point. Other than that these docs will never see daylight again.
     
    3 people like this.
  32. Aug 6, 2016
  33. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    FWIW we've received almost the same questions from one or two of the larger casino groups. Our Account Manager has been the primary target so far but I've received one as well, as a complaints arbitrator? :eek2:

    I thought it was just a big data mining scam and the casino involved wouldn't commit to the PAB process anyway so I just blew it off. The impetus for this must be coming from somewhere though.
     
    2 people like this.
  34. Aug 6, 2016
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This has all the hallmarks of the Anti Money Laundering regulations, but these haven't really changed in years. The difference here is that these questions are highly intrusive. We must remember, online casinos have taken the line that what they provide is "entertainment", not hardcore gambling, an argument they use to demonise players who's primary goal is to win, rather than to be entertained.

    Neteller and Skrill have also been very clear that they are not a bank, and customers don't have any of the rights they would normally have with a bank, in particular the government guarantee of any deposits should they go under.

    Now, casinos are behaving like investment fund providers, and Neteller/Skrill is behaving like an over zealous bank.


    We have had this kind of thing in the past, over zealous organisations using legislation to justify wide scale data mining. We have also seen the regular slapping down of such dubiously justified data mining by the ICO, hence the "necessary" provision in the DPA when it comes to companies asking for intrusive amounts of personal data.

    Such data would be VERY useful for lead generation in the investment industry, as it would give them a profile of a player's income as well as their total personal wealth. Despite all the promises, such data has a habit of leaking from whatever organisations get hold of it for "legitimate purposes", and the cold calls begin.

    Whilst Neteller is unlikely to leak our data, the same cannot be said of numerous casinos, who from past experience leak like a sieve when it comes to holding sensitive player data.


    I invested a portion of those large MGS fruity hits into a SIPP, and whilst I was asked about the source of the money, which I put down as "winnings from gambling", I was not asked for two screenshots of my gaming history and registration details at GNUF or Lucky Nugget. I wasn't even asked a thing when part of the earlier 32Red hit was used to pay off my mortgage early by lump sum.

    If the laws haven't changed much, maybe the legal advice and other guidance companies rely on has. If so, this could be the beginning of this "rare" request becoming "common"; much the same way that the initially rare "send a photo of you holding your ID" became a common moan from players over the space of a few years.

    At least a Mega Moolah winner will have plenty of supporting evidence due to the publicity and direct involvement of MGS in the payment. I wonder how Neteller would react if some player withdrew £10 million from their Mega Moolah hit into there.

    I know how my bank would react, not just another letter inviting me to consider their "private banking service" (yes, I have actually had two already!!), but the CEO contacting me personally to convince me they could offer the best home for £10 million.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Aug 6, 2016
  37. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    I am pretty convinced it is for AML reasons.

    Neteller/Skrill don't have a max. possible account balance, only max. limits per transaction/day/week/month. Hence, they are much more prone to ML.

    Ecopayz has a max. balance limit of EUR81,000, therefor much less an issue with ML as the amount is minuscule for big fraudsters.
     
  38. Aug 6, 2016
  39. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    Neteller DID have a max account balance when I first used them. I think it was around £35,000 for an ordinary verified account, but more for VIP. When I first became VIP, the max balance was some £125,000. They seem to have dropped this now.

    It's possible that max balances put off the big online poker players, hence they were ditched and transaction limits seem insanely large. Same with casinos, where banking tells me I can deposit any amount between £20 and £10000000, or similarly insane amount.
     
    1 person likes this.

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