Fruit Party - Pragmatic Play

ultra100

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I know that Pragmatic Play have different RTP set-ups related to the slot games, and was wondering about the Fruit Party slot.
Where I can find the info for the lowest RTP and highest RTP set-up for the game, no-matter which casino/operator I choose?

For example, at the official Pragmatic Play website RTP for the Fruit Party slot is listed as:
Basic Game Info

  • RTP & Volatility: 96.50%
And at the operator website, its listed as: 94.45%

Thanks
 

dunover

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I know that Pragmatic Play have different RTP set-ups related to the slot games, and was wondering about the Fruit Party slot.
Where I can find the info for the lowest RTP and highest RTP set-up for the game, no-matter which casino/operator I choose?

For example, at the official Pragmatic Play website RTP for the Fruit Party slot is listed as:
Basic Game Info

  • RTP & Volatility: 96.50%
And at the operator website, its listed as: 94.45%

Thanks
Yes, the developer website might display any one of the maths models it offers, but usually just the top one. They (Pragmatic/Topgame) offer lower RTP models and clearly this particular operator has requested a nerfed model.
 

ultra100

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Yes, the developer website might display any one of the maths models it offers, but usually just the top one. They (Pragmatic/Topgame) offer lower RTP models and clearly this particular operator has requested a nerfed model.
Yes, thanks for the reply.

Where I can find public info for the lowest / highest RTP operator/casino can choose for the particular Pragmatic Play slot game?
 

CasinoNinja

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You can view the RTP in the help file for each slot, otherwise there is no such "public information" one stop shop, each casino can do it the way they like by choosing the rtp version.
 

ultra100

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You can view the RTP in the help file for each slot, otherwise there is no such "public information" one stop shop, each casino can do it the way they like by choosing the rtp version.
Yep, I understand that. The question was, what is the "lowest" vs "highest" RTP operator can choose for each game for the Pragmatic Play slots?
 

colinsunderland

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Yes, the developer website might display any one of the maths models it offers, but usually just the top one. They (Pragmatic/Topgame) offer lower RTP models and clearly this particular operator has requested a nerfed model.
How does that fit in with UKGC rules? Surely the advertised RTP should be whats on offer to each market.
 

ultra100

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How does that fit in with UKGC rules? Surely the advertised RTP should be whats on offer to each market.
Yeah, and I don't like the idea for operators/casinos to choose RTP for a particular slot game. But that's the way it works for the PP slots.
But my concern was, where it could be seen the "lowest" vs the "highest" RTP for each particular Pragmatic Play slot, operator can choose?
 

ultra100

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As...its a big, big difference between 96+% RTP vs 94 RTP for the same slot game, we could all agree on that one :)
 

ultra100

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Maybe official PP representative could jump in just to clear this out?..... (Pragmatic Play Official)
Is there any info on the lowest vs the highest RTP for each of the Pragmatic Play slot operator/casino can choose?

For example, for the Fruit Party, operator can choose 3 variants (94. 95 or 96 RTP?) and so on?
How does that fit in with UKGC rules? Surely the advertised RTP should be whats on offer to each market.
 

dunover

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How does that fit in with UKGC rules? Surely the advertised RTP should be whats on offer to each market.
I'm not sure what you mean - if the UKGC licensed casino requests a lower RTP model then as long as they are open in the rules/games pay lists then it's ok. A developer site is technically not a gambling advertiser, more a (licensed/audited) wholesaler of casino products, which must be promoted by the end user (casino) correctly.
The RTP range offered by a developer would be available to any market, it's down to the retailer, in this case the casino, to ensure the correct RTP is displayed. A casino can buy different RTP models for different markets, it's their choice as long as the players in those markets are correctly informed.
Another point worth noting is that technically UK visitors shouldn't even play the demos unless a proper age check system in in place. If you log in to the client area of developers, they do actually fully list the RTP ranges for any games, not on the general visitors portal which invariably uses the default 'factory' TRTP model. The casinos/some affiliates will see the client area whereas the general public don't.
 

colinsunderland

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I'm not sure what you mean - if the UKGC licensed casino requests a lower RTP model then as long as they are open in the rules/games pay lists then it's ok. A developer site is technically not a gambling advertiser, more a (licensed/audited) wholesaler of casino products, which must be promoted by the end user (casino) correctly.
The RTP range offered by a developer would be available to any market, it's down to the retailer, in this case the casino, to ensure the correct RTP is displayed. A casino can buy different RTP models for different markets, it's their choice as long as the players in those markets are correctly informed.
Another point worth noting is that technically UK visitors shouldn't even play the demos unless a proper age check system in in place. If you log in to the client area of developers, they do actually fully list the RTP ranges for any games, not on the general visitors portal which invariably uses the default 'factory' TRTP model. The casinos/some affiliates will see the client area whereas the general public don't.
I think thats up for debate. The demo games on the PP site are clearly there for promotional purposes, and for consumers rather than trade. The age verification is a click box saying 'I am over 18' which isn't enough from what I understand, unless the more strict verification is just for advertising?
I would say it's a fine line (at best) as to them only showing one RTP when more than one is available. As they are the producer rather than the casino, then the range of RTP's should be shown in my view, as otherwise it's misleading. You see the manufacturer showing 96.5% as the only RTP then I think it is reasonable for a consumer to think that is the RTP whatever casino you play at.
 

ultra100

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"You see the manufacturer showing 96.5% as the only RTP then I think it is reasonable for a consumer to think that is the RTP whatever casino you play at."

Yup, that's the whole point.
IMHO, the PP should then list all the options on their website. (Ex. RTP for 94, 95, 96%), otherwise its misleading for players - no matter at which online casino they play.
 

dunover

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I think thats up for debate. The demo games on the PP site are clearly there for promotional purposes, and for consumers rather than trade. The age verification is a click box saying 'I am over 18' which isn't enough from what I understand, unless the more strict verification is just for advertising?
I would say it's a fine line (at best) as to them only showing one RTP when more than one is available. As they are the producer rather than the casino, then the range of RTP's should be shown in my view, as otherwise it's misleading. You see the manufacturer showing 96.5% as the only RTP then I think it is reasonable for a consumer to think that is the RTP whatever casino you play at.
I see, but you may need to approach this question from the perspective that you as an individual aren't a direct customer of the developer, but the casino is. Therefore as long as what they offer to the casino in the client area is ok, there's nothing stopping them putting any RTP version in the public area they like, as you aren't using it to gamble on and the responsibility for adhering to regulations in real play is borne by the purveyor i.e. the casino who does offer it for real gambling in accordance with regulations.

I suppose it's like when a car manufacturer makes a TV ad and the model you are shown is completely Gary-ed with spoilers, trims, sat nav, massaging seats etc. and in the small print below it says "*Deluxe 2.3i GT Model illustrated, £27,999 but peasants like you will probably only be able to afford the 1.6 GL version at £16,999" So it's down to the garage to describe the actual product to you at the point of demonstration and sale. It's not up to the manufacturer to provide you with their whole range of models and full details, but the retailer or advertiser to do it on their behalf.
 

ultra100

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And, just to add to this - but its a post for another topic..

Why would a game provider offer different RTPs on the same slot game for a casino/operator to choose?
 

dunover

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"You see the manufacturer showing 96.5% as the only RTP then I think it is reasonable for a consumer to think that is the RTP whatever casino you play at."

Yup, that's the whole point.
IMHO, the PP should then list all the options on their website. (Ex. RTP for 94, 95, 96%), otherwise its misleading for players - no matter at which online casino they play.
Why?
So you would expect them to state "Rogering Reels slot by Septic Studios has RTP's of 92, 94, 95 and 96% offered by us, the developer, to your casino operator. If the casino offer you less than 96% they are ripping you off!"
You are not the customer of the developer. Technically the business arrangement they have with the casinos is none of our business. I get where you're coming from, in a perfect world etc....

They offer different RTP's for customers who maybe cannot operate with any margin, or an adequate margin if all their games are on top RTP maths. Same reason as you won't see 24 or 48-pack of cans of Coke in a newsagents as they need to stock and sell smaller quantities (i.e. single cans) at a far higher margin per can, whereas a bigger or more profitable retailer can sell at volume for less margin per can.
 

ultra100

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Why?
So you would expect them to state "Rogering Reels slot by Septic Studios has RTP's of 92, 94, 95 and 96% offered by us, the developer, to your casino operator. If the casino offer you less than 96% they are ripping you off!"
You are not the customer of the developer. Technically the business arrangement they have with the casinos is none of our business. I get where you're coming from, in a perfect world etc....
No, I would just expect to have the RTP where its build in the wall. Its just that, the way it is. Why in the world, could operators/casinos choose lower levels?
 

ultra100

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And....why would any of the player(s) play at any of the casino(s) which offer lower RTP on the same game? Right? I mean, from the player perspective, I don't see any sense on that.....really..//
 

dunover

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No, I would just expect to have the RTP where its build in the wall. Its just that, the way it is. Why in the world, could operators/casinos choose lower levels?
I explained that in my last post. The developers respond the demands of their customers, the casinos. Plus some of them provide games to both land-based and online where margins are very different, so have always had variable maths models like WMS and IGT and Novomatic.
Those developers exclusively offering online games and with varying maths do so because their customers demand it. Why these customers demand it, whether through necessity or greed, we don't really know at this time.
You'd better get used to it, as soon a slot developer only offering fixed maths will become a rarity and won't survive in the modern online slot era - unless A, the RTP is fixed at a crap level anyway or B, the games are so hugely popular that the casino will take a hit on them and subsidize it from other games with nerfed RTP.
 

colinsunderland

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I see, but you may need to approach this question from the perspective that you as an individual aren't a direct customer of the developer, but the casino is. Therefore as long as what they offer to the casino in the client area is ok, there's nothing stopping them putting any RTP version in the public area they like, as you aren't using it to gamble on and the responsibility for adhering to regulations in real play is borne by the purveyor i.e. the casino who does offer it for real gambling in accordance with regulations.

I suppose it's like when a car manufacturer makes a TV ad and the model you are shown is completely Gary-ed with spoilers, trims, sat nav, massaging seats etc. and in the small print below it says "*Deluxe 2.3i GT Model illustrated, £27,999 but peasants like you will probably only be able to afford the 1.6 GL version at £16,999" So it's down to the garage to describe the actual product to you at the point of demonstration and sale. It's not up to the manufacturer to provide you with their whole range of models and full details, but the retailer or advertiser to do it on their behalf.
yes but my point is they don't have any small print like an advert on TV for a car would. They always have that line of text so as it can't be accused of being misleading.
Pragmatic Play are misleading customers by stating one RTP.

Netent are even worse, state one RTP then have this on their website

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Can RTP be changed by the casino operators?​

Not for NetEnt games. Our games are only certified at the RTP that is stated in the game rules.

Do free-to-play games have the same RTP as the real version?​

Yes, they are the exact same games. For example, on games.netent.com, you can try all NetEnt games for free. This gives players a good chance to get a sense of the gameplay before playing for real money. In many countries, it is required by law that all free games are the same as “for money” games. NetEnt ensures that this is always the case.

Maybe @burgstrom would like to explain why they are lying to customers?
 

ultra100

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. A casino can buy different RTP models for different markets, it's their choice as long as the players in those markets are correctly informed.
This is a good point. Operator in question changed to lower RTP version at some point, without any notification. You wouldn't expect from players to check out help file every time before playing particular game.
 
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ultra100

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And, it's also worth mentioning that if you play practice mode at operator in question, the RTP for the Fruit Party is listed as: 1619583185365.png ; while a real money mode gives you RTP of: 1619583248260.png

In other words, you get different results from practice/demo VS real-money mode. IMHO, this is very misleading to players.
 

burgstrom

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yes but my point is they don't have any small print like an advert on TV for a car would. They always have that line of text so as it can't be accused of being misleading.
Pragmatic Play are misleading customers by stating one RTP.

Netent are even worse, state one RTP then have this on their website

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Can RTP be changed by the casino operators?​

Not for NetEnt games. Our games are only certified at the RTP that is stated in the game rules.

Do free-to-play games have the same RTP as the real version?​

Yes, they are the exact same games. For example, on games.netent.com, you can try all NetEnt games for free. This gives players a good chance to get a sense of the gameplay before playing for real money. In many countries, it is required by law that all free games are the same as “for money” games. NetEnt ensures that this is always the case.

Maybe @burgstrom would like to explain why they are lying to customers?
Hey All,

It would be inappropriate for me to comment on NetEnt as I no longer work there.

One thing I would state as something generic. The Free To Play RTP should be at the same as the real money version on an operator's website. As Providers generally don't offer a real money version - they tend to offer either the most popular or highest RTP versions on their websites. I don't think that Providers can be expected to provide the right RTP according to which casino you like to play on, seems unfeasible.
 
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