ATTN: Casino Rep Free chip -RTG

chuchu59

gambling addict
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SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
OK here I was playing with a free chip of $25 won from a live raffle at Grande Vegas. Went to play the three stooges II and won the jackpot of around $3.3k. Well, I know this sucks as the max winnings is capped at $125 but hey its free money. I went to clear wrs at paigow poker at $100 a hand when suddenly the balance was drastically reducedto around $200 I think. Now I have heard this happens when playing a free chip and once wrs are met the excess winnings are deducted leaving only the max withdrawable. As WRs had been met I played some more and won a little bit more while mixing my pending w/d balance with the free chip winnings. Now GV is deducting from my balance another $95 claiming that I should only w/d 125. However, if they had already deducted excess winnings automatically shouldnt the remaining balance be mine especially since I also have my own money used for play.

I know it sounds confusing guys. If you dont understand I will elaborate. Otherwise, views please.
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
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Edmonton Canada
This is the thing that Max was talking about with another RTG casino awhile back. It's really dumb, they remove excess winnings once WR is met, but you're still never allowed to withdraw more than the max so once WR is met there's no point in playing anymore. It would be nice if they'd do one or the other - remove excess winnings and releasing the bonus, or not removing it and still keeping a max cashout. To do both sucks - but it's not just JPC that does it, it seems like a pretty standard thing. Doesn't make it suck less though. :(

EDIT: Although if you had a balance and were playing with your own money then you shouldn't be held to the max cashout of the bonus chip. That's a little awkward, I'd contact Yasmeen and see if she could look at it for you.
 

maphesto

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Location
Sweden
If I remember correct...

When the balance is reduced when WR is met the balance usually goes down to the maximum withdrawal amount. A long time ago, the balance went down to the (maximum withdrawal amount + the amount of the free chip) because they removed the bonus money from the withdrawal later.

I can´t understand why they left around 200 in your account when it was supposed to be either 125 or 150...:confused:

Well, after they have reduced your balance, NEVER continue your play! You can´t win! You can ONLY lose mor money because there was clearly a maximum withdrawal amount!

Withdraw and deposit with fresh money!
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
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Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Thanks for the replies. I dont really mind the extra removal of winnings as they had removed $3k of it in the first instance. The thing is I also had a bit of my own money and actually I think that once the system reduces your balance the money is yours. Otherwise, there is no sense in removing your excess winnings once wrs are met.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
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MM
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Sweden
Thanks for the replies. I dont really mind the extra removal of winnings as they had removed $3k of it in the first instance. The thing is I also had a bit of my own money and actually I think that once the system reduces your balance the money is yours. Otherwise, there is no sense in removing your excess winnings once wrs are met.

I believe that's just to prevent you from continue playing and build up comppoints.
Probably they are also afraid that it would be easier winning a huge amount from the casino if your startingbalance is $125, since you can bet higher, than with the chance of winning starting all over with a small deposit.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
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Bexhill on sea, England
This totally stupid rule has been discussed here many times before. :(
You would think the casinos would WANT you to carry on playing and hopefully lose your winnings back to them.
But instead they punish you for continuing! :eek2:

I'm not sure about all other softwares, but definitely at RTGs - once you finish the WR, cash-out ASAP!

KK
 

rzyavgo

Banned User -Violation of forum rules <a href="htt
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Location
Republic of Belarus
Heh, one guy from russian forum cleared 50$ nodeposit on Manhattan slots and had 2k on balance. He pass security check, and made cashout 2k on neteller. He received 2k(LOL!), but on next day his casino accout was locked ;)
 

maphesto

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Location
Sweden
This totally stupid rule has been discussed here many times before. :(
You would think the casinos would WANT you to carry on playing and hopefully lose your winnings back to them.

Many players do continue, and lose, without knowing that they NEVER had the chance to win more.


I'm not sure about all other softwares, but definitely at RTGs - once you finish the WR, cash-out ASAP!

Agree!

Chu: If you had money in the account from the beginning, and your balance never dropped much, you should fight for your right to that RJ! :D

Probably old news, but many players are told to never mix free chips with real cash. Your own cash haven´t got any max cashout.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Heh, one guy from russian forum cleared 50$ nodeposit on Manhattan slots and had 2k on balance. He pass security check, and made cashout 2k on neteller. He received 2k(LOL!), but on next day his casino accout was locked ;)

Heh. Yeah. Hilarious. Real funny.

I kinda figured you belonged to a russian freebie shark site.

The fact that you think this guy was a hero says something about your attitude. Enjoy it while you can, as you'll eventually be bonus banned or banned everywhere you go.

You need to understand you are dealing with a different crowd here at CM I.e. we are almost all serious players that risk their own money rather than trawling the net milking every free chip they can.
 

rzyavgo

Banned User -Violation of forum rules <a href="htt
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Location
Republic of Belarus
Heh. Yeah. Hilarious. Real funny.

I kinda figured you belonged to a russian freebie shark site.

The fact that you think this guy was a hero says something about your attitude. Enjoy it while you can, as you'll eventually be bonus banned or banned everywhere you go.

You need to understand you are dealing with a different crowd here at CM I.e. we are almost all serious players that risk their own money rather than trawling the net milking every free chip they can.
No, i am very very young in gambling(casinos), but i just like to read forums ;)
Also i did not think that those guy a hero, just tell you one funny story :cool:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I believe that's just to prevent you from continue playing and build up comppoints.
Probably they are also afraid that it would be easier winning a huge amount from the casino if your startingbalance is $125, since you can bet higher, than with the chance of winning starting all over with a small deposit.


It shows how little they know about the product they are offering. It makes NO difference at all to the chances of winning or losing whether play continues on the $125, or it is withdrawn and $125 redeposited as a fresh deposit.

I am convinced the REAL reason is down to them being able to milk extra profits by using a system that tricks unwary players into thinking that once the excess is removed, the restriction is lifted so that they can treat what's left as their own money. If they lose, the casino saves itself $125, but if they win, the casino STILL only pays out $125, whereas if they withdraw and redeposit, the casino would be liable for the whole win.

What they SHOULD do when WR is complete is to FORCE the player to withdraw, and NOT let them carry on even if they tried to. This can be done by having the back end systems that remove the excess also send the player to the cashier, with a big bold "you must withdraw now, do NOT play on" presented to them.

There are so many fixes and fudges in RTG software that favour the casino, but do nothing for the player, that it can't really be viewed as fair and random. As well as max cashouts, we have this unannounced removal of excess during play, and an artificial cap on the bigger slots payouts that means players can get significantly less than the amount randomly generated for their stake. All this is so that RTG casinos can advertise misleadingly good bonuses, and compete unfairly against the smaller bonuses offered in casinos that have no such fixes and fudges to protect them from the odd very lucky player.
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
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Edmonton Canada
Well this issue keeps rearing its ugly head, but the difference in this case is that chuchu had some of his own money in there. So why should he be stuck with a max cashout? If they go look at his play logs they'll be able to see what money was his and what was bonus on practically every spin. Maybe it will work out. Wouldn't it be sweet if they said "Oh we realized you were playing your own money when you hit that random, so we'll let you have it!" ;)
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
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SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Try playing at an RTG that offers "non-sticky" bonuses. Like iNetBet or Jackpot Capital. JMO

Grande Vegas is part of the JC group.

Actually, I made it more confusing when stating I had my own money there. It was in pending status when I hit the RJ but I think I reversed it and played some more afterwards. I have no qualms on not getting the $3k rj as this was generated by play on the free chip but if they automatically reduce my balance to the permitted w/d amount then theoretically the remaining balance is mine. In the end, they only deducted a further $95 from my balance but I am sure I didnt even play enough after meeting wrs to win this extra amount so the system must have been faulty and deducted the wrong amount after I had met wrs on the free chip. I recall playing paigow at $100 a hand and just before I pressed the deal button my balance was whittled down. I lost that hand eventually meaning my balance should actually have $100 extra though it would also mean they would then deduct $195 instead of $95.
 

bpb

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
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Try playing at an RTG that offers "non-sticky" bonuses. Like iNetBet or Jackpot Capital. JMO

This has nothing to do with sticky bonuses. It has to do with max cashouts.

And iNetBet does exactly the same thing. If you make any comp point redemption, you forfeit all future comp points earned until your balance reaches exactly $0. Leave just $1 in your account, and all future comp points are gone. But make a full withdrawal and then immediately redeposit the same amount (causing them to pay unnecessary transaction fees), and everything's just peachy.

Common sense doesn't abound in this industry.
 

LaHutti

Sr. ÜberUnter Ass. Man.
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East and West
Well this issue keeps rearing its ugly head, but the difference in this case is that chuchu had some of his own money in there. So why should he be stuck with a max cashout? If they go look at his play logs they'll be able to see what money was his and what was bonus on practically every spin. Maybe it will work out. Wouldn't it be sweet if they said "Oh we realized you were playing your own money when you hit that random, so we'll let you have it!" ;)

hahahaa...that'll be the day I may deposit in an RTG casino again.
 

bpb

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
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Haverhill
I am convinced the REAL reason is down to them being able to milk extra profits by using a system that tricks unwary players into thinking that once the excess is removed, the restriction is lifted so that they can treat what's left as their own money. If they lose, the casino saves itself $125, but if they win, the casino STILL only pays out $125, whereas if they withdraw and redeposit, the casino would be liable for the whole win.

Sounds exactly like when a scammer charges back their credit card deposit if they lose, but pockets the cash if they win. I see no difference between player chargebacks and what the casino did here. The casino is freerolling the player. I'd like to see CM step up here and declare this to be an automatic loss of accreditation if casinos insist on this rogue action.

I'd like to believe that this is the action of a poorly informed cashier, and that if this issue is escalated that GV will do the right thing. I have a lot of respect for their casino group.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
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SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
I sent Yasmeen a pm and told her to comment as necessary on this thread.

I am ok with the max that can be won from a free chip but they gotta make it less confusing and not debit my account twice. I cannot be expected to know how much I can actually withdraw since I also had a w/d in the pending w/ds section. The amount in question is only $95 but I am pretty sure I did not win anything close to this amount after completing wrs. In fact, I probably lost this amount. If they implement a policy of automatic reduction of balance after wrs are met they should stick to it and not go about messing around with players' w/ds.

Nevertheless, GV has always been an honest outfit and one mistake does not really reflect that badly on them.
 
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