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Fortune group change in t and c's

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by adamruns, Jul 14, 2005.

    Jul 14, 2005
  1. adamruns

    adamruns Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    NA
    Does anyone know the exact date and time the fortune group changed their t and c's from 15x to 20x. They claim it was on July 5th. I made a bunch of deposits on the 6th and checked the t and c's and they had not been changed. Support has been unwilling to resolve the issue.
     
  2. Jul 14, 2005
  3. halix

    halix Dormant account

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Germany
    They sent out an email (explaining the wager requirements upgrade) on July 5th, around 11 AM EST.
     
  4. Jul 14, 2005
  5. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    The CS are totally useless here. However you should get help from the more senieor staff.

    You should email their VP of Ops, who is a member here asking him to check.

    I had a similar situation at Thunderluck, a fl-managed casino, and the CS gave me all manner of BS and lies about t&cs having retrospective effect and so on.

    Anyway, if you ask the vp of operations he should be able to tell you exactly when the updated t&cs were posted on their website, as it's not necessarily the same day that they sent the email.

    My guess is they had changed it and you didn't bother to check, so you are SOL, as you should always check t&cs before you sign up.
     
  6. Jul 14, 2005
  7. fortunelounge

    fortunelounge Accredited Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Operations Manager
    Location:
    South Africa
    Updated T&C - date of release

    Hi Adamruns

    The Vice President of Operations is currently abroad and therefore I will be attending to any urgent matters during his absence.

    I would like to urge you to kindly send the Vice President a private message as I believe that the issue is ongoing and nearing resolution. The Fortunelounge Group did indeed update the Terms and Conditions on the 5th of July 2005. We are in the process of making a decision which will perhaps resolve the entire debacle, as we have always been incredibly commercial in our approach. In the case where Terms and Conditions are updated it is understandable that during the transition phase some ironing out of issues would be needed.

    Online Casino's change Terms and Conditions in order to remain commercial, safe and to ensure that ethical business practices are adhered to. It is also a clause in the Terms and Conditions that state that you are liable for ensuring that you keep updated with any changes that occur. Again, we have always followed the philosophy of offering our valued players the benefit of the doubt, as we will in this case also.

    I must stand behind the staff of the Fortunelounge Group, for without the Agents much of the wonderful Fortunelounge experience would go lost.

    I trust that we will reach a resolution to your problem and I look forward to receiving your message soon.

    Warm regards,
    Jeremy
    Floor Manager
    Fortunelounge

    PM - Mail me at This email is not visible to you.
     
  8. Jul 15, 2005
  9. adamruns

    adamruns Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    NA
    I would like to let everyone know that Jeremy from Fortune Group has allowed me to cash out under the terms that were posted when I deposited and not the terms when I cashed out. I would like to thank him for this and Casinomeister for doing whatever he did to resolve the situation.

    I just hope that Fortune Lounge allows everyone in my situation to do what they have allowed me to do.

    This can only help the online gaming industry as a whole as well as Fortune themselves.
     
  10. Jul 17, 2005
  11. fortunelounge

    fortunelounge Accredited Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Operations Manager
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi all

    The staff at Fortunelounge has always done their absolute best to keep our players as happy as possible, and have over the years built a reputation of fairness and interest in our customers.

    I wish to thank Adamruns at this point for his positive post, which again proves that we are extremely commercial in our approach. I furthermore assure you all that we have and will apply the same treatment to any other player which might have experienced the same situation, regardless whether we are made aware of these frustrations via this or any other forum, or contact received directly from our clients.

    I urge any and all players of the Fortunelounge Group to contact us either by e-mail or telephony should they currently be experiencing problems or if they require our assistance in order to have an outstanding issue resolved.

    The staff of the Fortunelounge Casino Group are all committed to ensuring that our players may experience unrivaled gaming pleasure and world class service delivery.

    Thank you for your time and attention to this post.

    Warm regards
    Jeremy
    Floor Manager

    Fortunelounge
     
  12. Jul 18, 2005
  13. adamruns

    adamruns Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    NA
    Since Jeremey has been so helpful here already. I would like to ask why doubling/splitting in blackjack does not count towards the wager requirement? Live support never could give me an answer on this other than a standard thats just how we calculate it. Is this normal for other casinos?
     
  14. Jul 18, 2005
  15. MeganSpot

    MeganSpot Dormant account

    Location:
    a land down under
    Quote:
    "Regardless of what you see in the T&Cs, if they decide to change their mind, their decision is "final" even if you performed according to the rules."//



    This mob have got form. Lots of it.

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5437&highlight=platinum play

    Despite being nailed by their own rules they simply refused to pay me - full stop end of story (PaB went unanswered). They even had the audacity to post under an assumed name on the mirror thread over at WOL which they blamed on some rouge staff member.

    They treat players with utter contempt and now it's the affiliates turn.

    The online Casino industry is a fair dinkum joke. Which ones should you trust? - and no please don't direct me to the meister's recommended list.
     
  16. Jul 18, 2005
  17. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Just a quick admin note that I've split the thread to keep this one on track. The Fortune Affiliate issues have been moved here:
    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8913

    A few non-webmasters have responded to the thread - which is fine, your points are well taken, but since it's a webmaster issue, I've decided to move it there. Sorry.
     
  18. Jul 18, 2005
  19. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    What the hell are you talking about :what: Your PAB was forwarded and handled back in Sept/October and they didn't find a reason to feel that you were in the right. Here's an excerpt:

    We only received 2 mails from her. We did not stop responding to her mails. She stopped communicating with us and went to eCOGRA. When she was not satisfied with the answer she received from them, she went to Casinomeister.

    She is calculating her wagering requirements of the Neteller purchase as a $5 purchase when she made a $50 purchase. That is why her calculations are incorrect. She was told so. If you look at the mail below you will see...


    Why do you have the need to BS everyone and state that your PAB wasn't answered? I don't know.

    So if FL decides you're wrong, and then eCogra decides you're wrong, and then I decide you're wrong - what the hell? I guess you're right :thumbsup:
     
  20. Jul 18, 2005
  21. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    PAB went unanswered when it actually was. Utter contempt for this forum. How about a yellow card and banning when you reach 2 of these?
     
  22. Jul 18, 2005
  23. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    The issues on Megan's thread never were responded to (trick Neteller bonus, confiscating funds instead of returning them to the account if there was a slight error in wagering etc.), though some of their policies changed many months later. It is a bit ironic that affiliates are now complaining when they're mistreated, despite the fact they were the ones who supported FL and allowed them to get away with ignoring players.
     
  24. Jul 18, 2005
  25. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I really don't think these comments are fair, because she was responded to by player support, VP of Operations, eCOGRA, and me both in private and in public. So I think being responded to is a moot issue. Perhaps there are a number of people who didn't see her way through her issue. Maybe we should wait for Wim to return so we can rehash this whole issue.

    And I don't see it as "suddenly affiliates have a problem and they go up in arms" kind of thing. There is a relationship here that everyone who participates enters into. Players - affiliates - affiliate managers - casino - players. There are some disgruntled affiliates who don't like certain things.
     
  26. Jul 19, 2005
  27. MeganSpot

    MeganSpot Dormant account

    Location:
    a land down under
    CASINOMEISTER QUOTE: "What the hell are you talking about Your PAB was forwarded and handled back in Sept/October and they didn't find a reason to feel that you were in the right. Here's an excerpt:

    We only received 2 mails from her. We did not stop responding to her mails. She stopped communicating with us and went to eCOGRA. When she was not satisfied with the answer she received from them, she went to Casinomeister.

    She is calculating her wagering requirements of the Neteller purchase as a $5 purchase when she made a $50 purchase. That is why her calculations are incorrect. She was told so. If you look at the mail below you will see...

    Why do you have the need to BS everyone and state that your PAB wasn't answered? I don't know.

    So if FL decides you're wrong, and then eCogra decides you're wrong, and then I decide you're wrong - what the hell? I guess you're right" END QUOTE

    Ok Bryan - now take the foot out of your mouth.

    I never went to eCogra, I have never complained, contacted, emailed, spoken, telephoned, wired, telegrammed or communicated by way of smoke signals to eCogra.

    Subsequent to my forum postings I was never again contacted by Fortune Lounge - just ignored.

    I never received any response to my PAB - IF YOU WANT I WILL SHOUT IT OUT LOUD - you never got back to me. You have got your facts wrong and have mistaken me for some one else. If you were even remotely familiar with my particular beef with FL you would know their behaviour was reprehensible, and like the current affiliate dispute, indefensible.

    Over to you.
     
  28. Jul 19, 2005
  29. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Ummmm....

    Oh shit :oops:

    I am doing pushups right now - just for you MeganSpot!!

    Ok finished. <whew> I apologize down to the deepest part of my overworked body. I am really really terribly sorry. You are correct, I had you confused with another female player who PABd about the same time about the same casino. I did a search on your player info and the casino replies about her issue brought yours up as well since they were looked at at the same time.

    I though this was forwarded to you - it should have been. Wim had worked on your case, but he said there wasn't much he could do. He was going to post this in the forum and/or email you, but it looks like he didn't.

    The player's calculations surrounding the wagering requirements are almost correct.

    She purchased $50 via NETeller, and recevied the following bonuses

    $100 - signup bonus
    $10 - bonus for first purchase of over $50
    $5 - 10% bonus for purchasing via NETeller.

    Wagering requirements:
    Signup bonus: Purchase + Bonus * 15
    = ($50 + $100)*15
    = $2250

    First purchase over $50 bonus
    = $10 * 15
    = $150

    10% NETeller bonus: Purchase + Bonus * 10
    = ($50 + $5)*10
    = $550

    Total Wagering
    $2250 + $150 + $550

    = $2950

    This was correctly applied, and she had not wagered enough to cash in, and thus forfeited a portion of her cashin. She has only wagered $2,687.95 and was well short of the required amount.

    The $5 bonus is not a 'trap' as she states, which is used to deliberately penalise players that don't meet the wagering requirements. The requirements are listed in the same place on the website that the wagering requirements for other bonuses are listed, so if she had read the terms concerning all relevant bonuses, she would have seen the requirements on this bonus.

    Listed right underneath the link to the terms for First Time sign-up bonus, is the additional deposit bonus, which shows NETeller.

    She also deliberately states that the wagering requirement on this $5 bonus is 110 times the bonus, to make it seem like a exorbitant requirement. The requirement on this bonus, is purchase plus bonus times 10. This is a standard wagering requirement, and not unusually high (it is in fact lower than the sign up offer, which is purchase plus bonus times 15)


    Again sorry. I thought this was taken care of :D
     
  30. Jul 19, 2005
  31. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    Ah, it brings back the classic FL BS ;) Yes, how "deliberately" misleading to correctly state that the wr of that particular bonus was 110xb.

    Wasn't there some issue about the order in which the bonuses were to be confiscated (i.e. just taking away the $5 bonus that meant the wr wasn't met might seem reasonable?). The policy of confiscating bonuses for any mistake in wagering (compounded by the trick bonuses) still ranks as about the most sleazy policy adopted by any "reputable" casino group - though there's a lot of competition! :D That's why I've got limited sympathy for affiliates up in arms now. I don't think you could send players to FL with a clear conscience at the time, though the extra revenue must have been hard to turn down.
     
  32. Jul 19, 2005
  33. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    I thought the "bonus confiscation" was a thing of the past? Are they still implementing it?

    The bonus structure is confusing for new players. The correct casino response is to reverse the cashin in full and fire off a quick email stating the exact outstanding wagering. Having gone to the trouble of checking the account, that wouldn't be too much more of an administrational headache and would generate none of the bad will the current policy is creating.
     
  34. Jul 19, 2005
  35. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    They did change it in the end, though only quite recently (a month ago, perhaps?). They also altered the Neteller bonus so it was based on x times the bonus and not the deposit - and made it so you had to claim bonuses specifically and didn't get any unwanted suprises.

    All in all, they've made big improvements, but the attitude they showed on here and the refusal to abandon an extremely unpleasant policy for so long didn't say much for them.
     

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