For my interest, has anyone else had problem with a casino re id/documents?

naththo

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Adelaide, South Australia.
Hi,

Just for my own curiosity and interest, I am not here to make any complaint at all. I recently had my document rejected by one of casino and closed my account unfortunately. It left me red face and rather livid. It took me 30 mins or so to prepare all ids and document to scan, upload and email to them. I was so baffled that they did not accept my document they request. But oh well, thats life, moves on. Thats their payment department decision anyway. But one thing they believed is I am not a fraud or anything at all. It just a little thing they didn't accept at all. Has anyone else had a similar experience to this that left you red face and baffle why they did not accept your document that they request and even they close account straight away without asking you for more information and more question to ask you.

I think it is very frustrating but it is clear that Max is very right. He said it is entirely up to casino to offer or deny services. The only thing would be so unacceptable is if you are request withdrawal and they refuse, then PAB is possible. But my was different story. I made deposit with correct mastercard and it paid through okay no problem. I had no problem with securecode. It is so unusual that they block me after deposit, ask for document and then refuse, close my acc out of nowhere. It might be that casino chose not to offer me service. So thats fine, thats life and Im moving on anyway.
 

naththo

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Adelaide, South Australia.
The reason is I don't want to declare which casino is the one caused problem. So I can't really publish who is it to avoid any more hassle at cost.

At least thats their loss if they don't want me. They are losing customer. Their problem. I have other casino to play with which I never had problem are 32Red, 3Dice, Omni Casino, Nordicbet, Guts, Redbet and Quasar rarely play due to expensive exchange rate, rarely play Slotocash and Buzzluck due to supertight games. Most visit are 32Red, Nordicbet, Omni Casino and 3Dice.
 

naththo

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Adelaide, South Australia.
Although I did a harsh one to one of casino with webcam capture of me who I am with hearing aid on and held a piece of paper I wrote was: XXXXXX, Here I am Nathan, that match my licence and passport. Yet you decide to kick me out too quickly without researching my document properly to verify it. Thats very uncall for. You could have ask me for more information or question me to get more information, before you verify it! I signed it at bottom with my name at bottom and I put in PS I am deaf! That was the last one I sent and thats it. All over rover. I hope they should think twice before discriminating anyone. Also I am waiting for my one of $50 I deposit to be refunded back to me so I am watching very closely. If problem continue I be emailing them again. If no answer, then they are in trouble.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
It's this kind of experience that discredits the whole KYC process, and the arguments for having it. It seems like they are using the KYC process as an excuse to deny an account, rather than down to someone not passing. The big problem is what if you had won?

It could be down to you being deaf, as you could never take a phone call from them. Try that in the EU, and there will be trouble (disability discrimination laws), but outside the EU, they can most likely get away with using such "taboo" criteria for denying service.

Quite a few businesses have fallen foul of this EU directive, often not deliberately, but by a failure to consider the requirements of the disabled when designing how customers are required to interact with the service or company. The norm here is for a text based phone service that the deaf can use, which is very much like the live chat we see at casinos. This is usually enough to satisfy the requirement to make the service fully accessible to the deaf and dumb. A video chat seems better, and is effectively what you have come up with, using the written word, rather than the spoken word, in a live conversation.

Unless you intend to take this further, naming the casino would help other players, for example those who can't use the phone due to disability, know where they may have problems. Depending on where they are licensed, it may or may not be worth taking the matter further.

If you join other casinos, it may be worth telling them up front that you can't take phone calls due to being deaf, and that if this is a problem, you need to know before you commit any deposits to them.

I know that Club World casinos use a phone verification for players, so this would be one group where those not able to use the phone might have problems passing the normal KYC procedures.
 

naththo

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Adelaide, South Australia.
Checklist and points on what I have done so far with Betfred. So it is more clear.

Checklist on what I done so far:

All scanned with Epson Photo Perfection 4990 with 300 dpi off Silverfast software I owns it

1. My current driver licence both front and back. Also sticker on back is my new home address I was provided by SA Transport.
2. My bank card with partial cover on numbers and the cover on security number on end on the back.
3. My current passport.
4. Telstra both post paid and prepaid and I also wrote note to them why it had changed. (1st page only on both printed out)
5. Westpac Bank statement (1st page only print out), opened with photoshop, masked out partially number of my account number on all of it not to reveal.

I also wrote who am I, where I live, etc.

Then I sent to Betfred all of attachment, took me 30 mins to do those.

2 hours later about, they denied it.

I was baffled and shook my head. I sent to Max for more advice and said PAB is possible but I thought best not to yet.

I sent a message to Betfred Manager but is still away since Betfred last login here on 9th September 2013.

I sent few emails to payment department but no response at all after last one says my account closed. Even the last email I sent was photo of me taken on webcam holding a piece of paper I wrote.

I have no choice to declare which casino which vinylweatherman I believed advised me to which is Betfred Casino.

I do remember that Betfred was taken off accredited once or so. I also did a good research on google and found that few website felt that they are qualified to go on black list and not recommended list. Thats their opinion. Casinomeister has their opinion. I understand that. I am not against you Casinomeister at all.

I checked your review of Betfred and learnt that payment process is slow. So they only scored 7.6. So I thought ah ha! That might be the case that maybe Betfred have cut a lot of service so payment processing would take longer and customer service would take longer.

I also post here my frustration and how I felt about that and I am appreciated that i got one response. Thats better than nothing to be honest. I don't expect a lot of response here. They are entitle whether if they response or not. Its their choice. Its only a forum here.

My dad had understood my frustration over it. He said that passport is the only one that has the most sensitive information in it, very valuable and very important item. Even I was told I do not have to change address on passport as I was told by passport service. Only address should be worry to change is on your Utility etc. I still have my birth certification if they ever want me to send thats fine. But they must remember it is very sensitive information. If they won't accept, they must destroy the documents I provide them, keep the account close so I can move on.

Anything else am I missing?

KYC you talked about yes I realised that. I also did tell them that I am deaf though. As webcam image of me shows I have hearing aid. That proves it. I have Australia hearing service here and they can show proof if they want one. But its not really necessary though to be honest. They don't need to make a stupid phone call to check who I am. Documents are plenty enough, if doubt, keep email me for more information or ask me question I am more than happy to. I am not lazy sitting on a chair bum all day/night. I do everything in effort.

Anyway I think thats enough.

Edited: Didn't the person who works in payment processing for Betfred Casino spend enough time to research my document, check with like Westpac Bank, check with passport agency, check with driver licence agency, check with Telstra. So thats plenty of time for them to do that before verify my documents. I dunno if that person bothers to do it or not or is that because they don't even have time, I don't know. Perhaps they cut a lot of customer service from Betfred, possibly, I don't know.
 

rena35

Meister Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Location
cyber space
I hope any casinos that use that process read this post and review their rules to also make allotments for those who are disabled to be able to play.Also If it were me,i wouldn't send anymore Docs and find somewhere else to play.
 

naththo

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Adelaide, South Australia.
Yup definitely! I am moving on though as doing my best to. :) That one I just try make clear for people to read to understand what i mean, my other post was quite bit out of sense not make sense so Im glad I post it much clearer one that helps. :thumbsup:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Checklist on what I done so far:

All scanned with Epson Photo Perfection 4990 with 300 dpi off Silverfast software I owns it

1. My current driver licence both front and back. Also sticker on back is my new home address I was provided by SA Transport.
2. My bank card with partial cover on numbers and the cover on security number on end on the back.
3. My current passport.
4. Telstra both post paid and prepaid and I also wrote note to them why it had changed. (1st page only on both printed out)
5. Westpac Bank statement (1st page only print out), opened with photoshop, masked out partially number of my account number on all of it not to reveal.

I also wrote who am I, where I live, etc.

Then I sent to Betfred all of attachment, took me 30 mins to do those.

2 hours later about, they denied it.

I was baffled and shook my head. I sent to Max for more advice and said PAB is possible but I thought best not to yet.

I sent a message to Betfred Manager but is still away since Betfred last login here on 9th September 2013.

I sent few emails to payment department but no response at all after last one says my account closed. Even the last email I sent was photo of me taken on webcam holding a piece of paper I wrote.

I have no choice to declare which casino which vinylweatherman I believed advised me to which is Betfred Casino.

I do remember that Betfred was taken off accredited once or so. I also did a good research on google and found that few website felt that they are qualified to go on black list and not recommended list. Thats their opinion. Casinomeister has their opinion. I understand that. I am not against you Casinomeister at all.

I checked your review of Betfred and learnt that payment process is slow. So they only scored 7.6. So I thought ah ha! That might be the case that maybe Betfred have cut a lot of service so payment processing would take longer and customer service would take longer.

I also post here my frustration and how I felt about that and I am appreciated that i got one response. Thats better than nothing to be honest. I don't expect a lot of response here. They are entitle whether if they response or not. Its their choice. Its only a forum here.

My dad had understood my frustration over it. He said that passport is the only one that has the most sensitive information in it, very valuable and very important item. Even I was told I do not have to change address on passport as I was told by passport service. Only address should be worry to change is on your Utility etc. I still have my birth certification if they ever want me to send thats fine. But they must remember it is very sensitive information. If they won't accept, they must destroy the documents I provide them, keep the account close so I can move on.

Anything else am I missing?

KYC you talked about yes I realised that. I also did tell them that I am deaf though. As webcam image of me shows I have hearing aid. That proves it. I have Australia hearing service here and they can show proof if they want one. But its not really necessary though to be honest. They don't need to make a stupid phone call to check who I am. Documents are plenty enough, if doubt, keep email me for more information or ask me question I am more than happy to. I am not lazy sitting on a chair bum all day/night. I do everything in effort.

Anyway I think thats enough.

Edited: Didn't the person who works in payment processing for Betfred Casino spend enough time to research my document, check with like Westpac Bank, check with passport agency, check with driver licence agency, check with Telstra. So thats plenty of time for them to do that before verify my documents. I dunno if that person bothers to do it or not or is that because they don't even have time, I don't know. Perhaps they cut a lot of customer service from Betfred, possibly, I don't know.

I can see a couple of points here that could cause issues for casinos that don't properly research how things work in different countries. It's a long standing issue that casinos feel their way of doing things trumps the choices of national governments. They probably never got as far as doing the more detailed checks, it was more likely a summary denial based on the issues, and perhaps a belief that you were just pretending to be deaf in order to deny them access to checks such as a verification phone call.

It all seems to boil down to the way a change of address has been dealt with. The government have just sent you a sticker for the existing document, and for the passport it's a "don't bother mate". I presume the same change shows on the Telstra bills. Here in the UK (where BetFred come from), the procedures differ. You would have to get a whole new driving license document for a change of address, a sticker is no good. My passport does not show an address, but if it did, I am sure it would also mean getting a whole new document, not just a sticker.

What is missing from your documents is evidence of the move from one address to the other, however BetFred gave up at this point and denied your account. They could instead have asked for scans of the documents relating to the move from one place to the other. If they used a check with a credit reference agency, this may also have failed because it takes time for a change of address to show up. This is also a problem UK players face then they move house, but decide to just wait for the annual electoral roll form in October. It means that for up to a year after the move, they are in limbo as far as a credit check (including an ID check) goes.

Given what you have discovered about BetFred, is it really a great loss? That's the beauty of competition, you can go somewhere else.

When you try elsewhere, get verified up front, and tell them that not only are you deaf, but have recently moved house. Hopefully, when they get the documents they will not immediately think you are trying to slip something by, but rather than they are supporting what you told them from the outset.

You don't really want to FORCE BetFred to accept you as a player for PR purposes by making a fuss or PAB, it will mean you are likely to get less favourable treatment, perhaps in the hope that you will go away of your own accord. Casinos DO often treat players they don't really want as "second class" in the hope that they will stop playing, rather than boot them out which might create bad PR. It's usually done by making them ineligible for all the promotions, and is usually effective.
 

naththo

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Adelaide, South Australia.
Yeah thats right. Its not worth it at the end. Thats why I have to move on.

Edited: At least I have got Omni Casino its a lot better place to go to as they have long run of casino of Playtech for years. So its pretty good stats to me. I have had good payout with Omni Casino few times.
 

naththo

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Adelaide, South Australia.
Today is 29th September and the only one i-Gaming Reps of Betfred is away since 9th September on this forum. The other casino I visit, they come here more often it seems. So something is not right. Thats only suspicious I have.
 

naththo

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Adelaide, South Australia.
Guess what, I had no problem with document and id with Buzzluck casino. Blimey! The live chat and cashier were very good and cooperative. No problem. Such a big difference to compare to Betfred.
 

dreamguardian1

Senior Member
PABnonaccred
MM
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Location
San Francisco, CA
Dont feel bad, i recent also a similar experience with 3-dice and its going to be an ongoing issue with many casinos. Deep breath and just keep submitting till they are accepted and hang in there
 
Top