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Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Trollet, Apr 4, 2009.

    Apr 4, 2009
  1. Trollet

    Trollet Meister Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    Hi all!

    I know this has been up before..but this time im making a few questions for the casino reps...so please...answer.

    I played some at diffrent casinos now..and i have to say that a few things makes me go crazy.
    First: I use an e-card...its the best way for me to use a card on the net and be safe. You see...just as you wanna protect your casino..i wanna protect my $$. There has never been any problems with my depos with it...so far i didnt find any casino that didnt take it. So all good with that...i can depo like 15 times at a casino..and since its an e-card..it will make 15 different numbers.. kind of if i used 15 cards. Still no problem...
    BUT...god help me if i make a cashout..even if it's just a $25..then you send me emails..that you want a copy of my identy card ..and all kind of stuff...

    Question 1: Wouldnt it be better to ask for that when i do my first depo..instead of when i make my first withdrawal??
    If you know you are gonna want it when i cashout......

    Next thing that can make anyone go nuts....you have to wait!!!
    Some has like 48 hours..and some has more...
    And im talking..24-48 hours before you even prosess it...before you even do anything with it !! Crazy!
    Its like a casino would say...WTG on your win..now, go home and get a good night sleep...and do some other things..and come back tomorrow....

    Thank god there is casinos that does pay right away..like 3Dice.. when you hit that withdrawal..its almost in your account before you leave banking page.

    Question 2: Why do you need to wait?

    And please dont give me any crap answers... you need to have a good reason if you ask me..others can pay right away..why wouldnt you be able to?
    And for me this is a good question..since with no answer i see no reraon for me to spend my $$ at your place.
    Or would it be ok for you if i said..im gonna make a deposit...and play..but you will get your money in a day or two...

    I really like the casino reps to give some answers...since i know im not the only one that would like to get one...

    (((HUGS))) Trollet
     
    5 people like this.
  2. Apr 4, 2009
  3. love2winalot

    love2winalot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Roulette Player
    Location:
    Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
    Hiya: I am not a Casino Rep., But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Xpress last night.........hehehe, sorry i couldent help it.

    I will get a few of the generic answers out of the way.

    1. The Casino needs to ensure the person requesting the withdraw is the same person who made the deposit.

    2. The casino needs to see how the money was deposited in the first place. To prevent chargebacks. Example, Playwer uses instant deposit from, "insert service provider name here" on monday. Wins some money on Monday/Tuesday, and request withdraw tue/wed. The Instant deposit takes 3-5 days to actually come out of the players bank acct. This is to prevent a player from having $100 in their bank acct. Doing a instant deposit for $1000, making big bets and winning $2000, and withdrawing it the same or next day, WHEN THEY NEVER HAD THE $1000 TO DEPOSIT TO BEGIN WITH.

    3. Bonus. The casino has to check if any part of a withdraw is Bonus releated, and if so, were play thru requirements met.

    4. And Lastly, Most Casino's would kind of like you to keep playing, and lose, and Cancel your withdraw request so you can keep playing. This is not as EVIL as it seems. Go play a table game in any Real casino, Win big right off the bat, and Cash out, and you will often hear, "Already? At least give us a chance to win it back".......hehehe. "NO" :cool:
     
  4. Apr 5, 2009
  5. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    So true, My first time in a B & M casino was at fairly laid back Las Vegas, and we were chatting to a host, and suddenly he "had to dash" in mid sentence - he had seen a pair making for the exit:D

    As for the issue at hand, since MOST casinos take days to pay, it is considered the norm, so they collectively get away with it. The "instant" payers are far and between, and do not therefore present enough risk to the slow payers.
    The way forward will be "divide & conquer". Influence individual casino companies that paying fast makes them MORE money than paying slow. Once there are enough fast payers in the industry, the slow payers will be forced to adapt or wither.

    There is no need to establish the ID of a player only at cash-out. If there is a problem with them gambling, it happens when they make their first bet, not when they cash-out. A fraud who uses stolen or laundered money, but never cashes out, can leave the casino with a huge liabilty once they are caught, and the rightful owner of the funds gambled away wants them back. The casino does at least have the money though, unlike the situation where they paid out, and THEN found out the initial deposits were stolen.

    The process of establishing a player's ID seems unduly cumbersome and inefficient. This is the 21st century, and in many cases electronic ID checks can be employed, and can be continuously employed to ensure no account is taken over by a fraudster. Rather than doing the checks themselves, they ask PLAYERS to do them, and fax or email the results. Often, this leaves the casino unsatisfied, because they find it hard to distinguish the frauds from honest players who might not quite fit the norm - one example might be using these virtual credit cards, and then being asked to send "front & back of the 15 cards used in the casino" for a particularly large cash-out.

    Probably, the move to accepting UKash by some casinos has opened the way to good old fashioned "money laundering", since you can buy UKash vouchers with the same ease as mobile phone top-up vouchers. You exchange cash for a code, and the money is not traceable to a time before it was presented to the shopkeeper in exchange for the voucher. I am not even sure there is a record held of where & when the cash was exchanged for the code, but if there was, it would STILL not link a person to the money, and this would allow a player to gamble with cash from illicit sources. Withdrawals would be by cheque, and would have to go to a readily identifiable person, and this at least would leave a trail.
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Apr 5, 2009
  7. Marie2473

    Marie2473 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Operator
    Location:
    Sweden
    Thos e-card thing has gotten me in alot of trouble with some casinos since many of them require a copy of a scanned creditcard if I am lucky enough to withdraw. This has actually taken me to neteller
    I now use my e-card - deposit into neteller with my e-card and then to the casino from neteller. Saves alot of discussions with the reps if i am lucky to win!

    Inetbet and 3dice is the one casinos where the payout has been really fast for me, also slotocash, however I have not played there for a while.
     
  8. Apr 5, 2009
  9. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    >>>> Hiya: I am not a Casino Rep., But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Xpress last night.........hehehe, sorry i couldent help it.

    I will get a few of the generic answers out of the way.

    1. The Casino needs to ensure the person requesting the withdraw is the same person who made the deposit.

    2. The casino needs to see how the money was deposited in the first place. To prevent chargebacks. Example, Playwer uses instant deposit from, "insert service provider name here" on monday. Wins some money on Monday/Tuesday, and request withdraw tue/wed. The Instant deposit takes 3-5 days to actually come out of the players bank acct. This is to prevent a player from having $100 in their bank acct. Doing a instant deposit for $1000, making big bets and winning $2000, and withdrawing it the same or next day, WHEN THEY NEVER HAD THE $1000 TO DEPOSIT TO BEGIN WITH.

    3. Bonus. The casino has to check if any part of a withdraw is Bonus releated, and if so, were play thru requirements met.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Dont agree. The only reason Casinos have holds is in the hope you play back any pending withdraw amounts. Fraud / risk control are always done at the time of purchase. And to say that the casino needs to ensure its the same person who deposits is making the withdraw is rubbish as well. They are multiple ways to check if it is the same person. I know this becuase we use similar methods in my business which has to continually battle with potential high risk transactions and also to ensure chargebacks are kept below 1% over all.

    I have no issue with random checks on player accounts or in the event of a player triggering a built in security alert then yes the Casino should be within its rights to hold of say 24 hours to verify information. Pending periods are the biggest ruse around. Along with those awful weekly limits that most RTGS/ Rivals impose. I could have wagered 1000s at a number of certain casinos listed on this site but in the end have not becuase of these very reasons. Its there loss and still they wont listen becuase they will always be enough players who take it on the chin and keep feeding the machine so to speak. For me I give my hard earn $$$ to sets up like 3 Dice - superb support mega fast cash outs and zero bulls@it. Multiple times on requesting a cash out with them I go back to my cashier page and its already executed! Thats one of the reasons they get my play. Same for Platinum play. yep they have 24 hour pending but they flush and send 24 hours later to the minute. 2 days later the money is back on my debit card :) Why shop elsewhere and accept less for your bling! And finally I laugh when I read over some of the terms of casinos , 3000 Limit on withdraw weekly and so on. And when you do come to cash out my gosh its a hard road, documents , pending periods, emails, all kinds of trash ,.,, anything just to keep you waiting in the hope you will change your mind and play the winnings back. Rant over but this issue really rattles me somtimes :mad: Time to take a hit of grey goose & ice me thinks :rolleyes:
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Apr 5, 2009
  11. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    I just check the slotocash withdraw page and read this :

    ?New players in the casino will be limited to a maximum of $5000 per month. The balance will remain active in the account until such time as the whole amount is processed.

    utterly mad I was gonna deposit but soon as I read that I walked.
     
    2 people like this.
  12. Apr 5, 2009
  13. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks for the heads up :thumbsup:

    I've just thrown them up on another site I have but now I got to go pull'em...

    My idea is...if you accept a deposit from a player (new or old) then you have to honour their wagers and pay their winnings out in full, in one payment, period.

    The only time this does not apply is if it's a fraudulent player. In which case the deposit is returned to the player in full and the account is locked.

    If your unable or unwilling to do this then you shouldn't be operating a casino. End of story!

    Edit: What amazes me in these instances, most people use a web wallet these days. If they use a CC then like Visa they use Visa Verify. So unless you've kidnapped the owner of the card and have him or her bound, gagged and are pulling their toe nails out, I don't see how any fraudster is going to have access to your banking password...Kinda makes this whole thing another BIG c#ck up for another online casino, hey.


    Cheers
    T
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2009
  14. Apr 5, 2009
  15. slotheadlizard

    slotheadlizard Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Movie mercandiser/Researcher
    Location:
    The Nati USA
    Holiday Inn Express

    So Funny:D
     
  16. Apr 7, 2009
  17. Paul@JetCasino

    Paul@JetCasino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Manager
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    Hey Trollet,

    There are two very simple answers to your questions, so here goes:

    #1 - ID is requested at the point of withdrawal to prove that you are who you claim to be and that you're not underage and profiting from Gambling.

    #2 - 99% of the time a Casino has to verify winnings, meaning you're going to have to wait for the funds to be processed. Most places offer a 'Cancel Withdrawal' feature but through responsible gambling you can ask this be removed.

    Let me know if you have any more questions, I'll be happy to answer them for you.

    Paul
     
  18. Apr 9, 2009
  19. Trollet

    Trollet Meister Member

    Location:
    Sweden

    Hi Paul!

    Thank you for your answers...and now im gonna be a pain in the behind...
    Your answer on my first question...
    Are you saying that its ok to make alot of depos and beeing underage as long as you dont make a withdrawal?
    See..this was my point from the start...why dont you ask for the ID right away when first deposit is made.

    On your second answer..
    If some casinos can do it in 5 mins..why does some need up to 3 days?
    And yes, many casinos does flush your withdrawal but some doesnt.
    I still wonder why.

    (((HUGS))) Trollet
     
  20. Apr 9, 2009
  21. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    This has been answered numerous times in the forum. Guess I should dig those answers up and stick them in the FAQ :p

    The main reason is that when you sign up at a casino YOU AGREE to the terms and conditions and VERIFY that you are of age and are not a fraudster. If there was a ID check at the door, many players would turn away and go someplace else. So in other words it's the honor system. :thumbsup:

    Have you ever been to Vegas? Many online casinos model their procedures after their successful land based brethren. There is no ID check in Vegas. You can plop yourself down in front of just about any slot machine and spin away cashing out small wins and never be asked to show ID. Yet if you make a large win, there is a hand pay procedure where you need to produce ID and fill out tax forms.

    As for online casinos, there are a myriad of them located in different parts of the globe. They all have different regulating entities that require different processes. I remember Lasseters, which was located in Northern Australia, required you to provide them with ID docs within 30 days of opening your account - regardless of winning or losing. Different strokes for different folks.
    Related to the above answer - myriad of companies, many jurisdictions and regulating authorities which require differing processes...
     
    2 people like this.
  22. Apr 9, 2009
  23. dazlazz

    dazlazz Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Prophet
    Location:
    London, UK
    Hi Trollet,

    Was it Ecocard you are using?

    Regards,

    Dazzla
     
  24. Apr 9, 2009
  25. dazlazz

    dazlazz Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Prophet
    Location:
    London, UK
    Hi Trollet,

    You quote 'Are you saying that its ok to make alot of depos and beeing underage as long as you dont make a withdrawal?
    See..this was my point from the start...why dont you ask for the ID right away when first deposit is made.'


    Most reputable casinos have intermediate fraud checking systems like trustmarque etc before card deposits are made to stop underage deposits. They should also have a decent fraud team to do the normal verification checks at the first deposit - they should be able to do this if they are any good,without even asking the customer, however a lot of casinos now employ people with minimal fraud knowledge - they do not even know the basics - trust me, i've worked with a lot of them, some excellent, some downright shocking. I've worked with a fraud manager who spent all day on msn and we ended up with so many duplicate accounts that it was mindboggling! Even some of the major companies have very outdated fraud / withdrawal policies in place.

    Regards,

    Dazzla
     
  26. Apr 9, 2009
  27. casinojack

    casinojack Dormant account

    Occupation:
    SALES !!
    Location:
    Costa Rica
    Casino Jack here

    Also a casino rep.

    Not to rehash the top, but you have any idea what would happen if your wife/husband login / pwd, calls for a withdrawl, I send them 5k, then you say "Hey that's not me!!"

    This happens. For us, number one reason is to know we give them money to correct person

    We also limit amount per week, UNLESS you request bank wire, then no issue. Why ? Many of these wallet solutions give us a max per month is sending restrictions. If someone is up 100k, 500k whatever, and I send it, then no one else can get paid. In a case like this, of course might take a couple extra days( not week or weeks) to verify the bonus, rollover etc, but 25k and under, is usually 24 - 48 hours. If is a large amount i would think most of us would send the money faster easier via bank wire, as easier to move the cash.

    Hope this makes sense..Good Luck
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Apr 11, 2009
  29. Trollet

    Trollet Meister Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    Hi all!

    Thank you all for your answers..

    And for Casinomeister...no i havent been to Vegas.
    I did go to our casino here in Stockholm..and..you have to show ID and have your picture taken even before you get anywhere from the lobby..so...

    Good Luck all!

    (((HUGS))) Trollet
     
  30. Apr 12, 2009
  31. NicolasJohnson

    NicolasJohnson Dormant account

    Location:
    A Place
    just to re-enforce

    Hi,

    As casinomeister said, there is no single answer to your question. Each casino not only has different licensing issues from the government they are bound by, but also have different ways of processing your funds via different methods, which will ultimately change the answer to your questions.

    Some answers from our perspective are:

    Question 1: Wouldnt it be better to ask for that when i do my first depo..instead of when i make my first withdrawal??
    The main reason is to protect us from money laundering and make sure we send the payment to the right person. Also, as Casinomeister pointed out, even if we wanted to request these documents at sign up, we would be un-competitive.

    We do make promotions to encourage people sending in docs before needed, but then many people feel that we are trying to steal their info when we request this :confused:. As said before, different strokes for different folk.

    Question 2: Why do you need to wait?
    But in general, we try to keep the wait to a minimum. We understand it is your money and you deserve it. We just need to make sure we are sending it to the right person, and he/she has abide by the rules.

    Kind Regards,
    Nicolas Johnson
    You must register/login in order to see the link. Manager
     
  32. Apr 12, 2009
  33. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    Hi,

    As casinomeister said, there is no single answer to your question. Each casino not only has different licensing issues from the government they are bound by, but also have different ways of processing your funds via different methods, which will ultimately change the answer to your questions.


    Hmmm,
    Since it is the Casino that chooses who they are regulated by and the cash processing methods they employ then it is still fair to judge a Casino by these criteria.

    It simply comes down to the individual Casino policies employed.
    I can cash out at some Casinos without the need to provide ID while others request Passport, Utility bills, Credit card copies, Urine samples and God knows what.
    As for the requesting ID for verification only upon cashout and not deposit it should made clear in the T&C's that ID will be requested and what ID will be sufficient for verification.
    Nothing annoys players more than finding they suddenly have to supply docs to a Casino, seemingly on a whim, they have cashed out from before without problems.

    As VWM says if we make most of our deposits at the Casinos that understand the term "customer service" then other Casinos will follow.

    It is just a shame there are so many apathetic or uneducated players that keep bad Casinos in business, hell even the rogues can still make a buck so that tells its own story.
     
    2 people like this.
  34. Apr 12, 2009
  35. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Urine samples? I didnt know casinos had a grudge against diabetics.
     
  36. Apr 12, 2009
  37. dazlazz

    dazlazz Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Prophet
    Location:
    London, UK
    Funny about the 'urine samples' - made me laugh this morning!!!

    Cheers,

    Dazzla
     
  38. Apr 14, 2009
  39. Paul@JetCasino

    Paul@JetCasino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Manager
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It should always clearly state in General T&C's that proof of ID and documents may be requested at any point by the Casino.

    Those operators who do not request ID spend a small fortune (and I mean a serious amount of money) every year to run fraud and security checks, employing various different companies and procedures to satisfy the requirements of the governing bodies - I think you'll find only the massive operators, usually those who have a Sportsbook employ these methods, purely because of the number of transactions being carried out.
     

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