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Non-Bonus Complaint Flycasino refuses to pay winnings. Asking physical notarized documents

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by Pokergrape, May 7, 2014.

    May 7, 2014
  1. Pokergrape

    Pokergrape Dormant account PABinit

    Occupation:
    Everything
    Location:
    Finland
    Hello!

    I am a new person in this forum, so if this is at a wrong place could yuo move this message to the right place.

    I have a little problem with accredited Flycasino. Previously I have not had any problems with them and they have paid every withdrawal I have made. However I made a withdrawal last Saturday after wagered the bonus of Saturday. After 2 days of pending they sent me email and asked to me to send a proof of my address and a copy of the notarized ID. I sent them via email and they were quickly accepted. In the same email they said that documents are ok, they however asked me to send that notarized ID physically to Philippines. I asked why they need it but their customer support only said that it has to be sent. Now I ask what to do. Should I send that document? I have never asked to send any documents via snail mail to anywhere, so this sounds a little bit weird. I have read that someone else has received similar emails from other Playtech casinos.

    Hopefully you can give me some good advice.

    Sincerely yours,
    Pokergrape
     
  2. May 7, 2014
  3. Nicola

    Nicola Casino Affiliate MM mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Developer
    Location:
    Green Park, London
  4. May 7, 2014
  5. Pokergrape

    Pokergrape Dormant account PABinit

    Occupation:
    Everything
    Location:
    Finland
    Hello!

    This withdrawal was not my biggest one I have done in Flycasino.
     
  6. May 7, 2014
  7. maphesto

    maphesto Dormant account

    Location:
    Sweden
    Fly are accredited and here is their rep:

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/adam-focalclick.html

    Send him a PM before you continue to post, next step is a PAB and therefore you should not post about the issue more.

    To me, this is totally BS, these stupid tricks about sending notarized docs to the Philippines are nothing else than ********(couldn't write that).

    Also, accredited casinos are not allowed to have outsorced support, which all this Philippines crap indicates that they have. Also, their support number begins with +632...Philippines = outsorced... :mad:

    GL Pokergrape, I can't see any reason for you to send those docs! I hope that their rep can solve this! :)
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
    6 people like this.
  8. May 7, 2014
  9. suzecat

    suzecat Dormant account CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    California
    Pokergrape you should read the link that Nicola posted for you. By the way security for this casino, as well as all Playtechs, is located in the Philippines. If you want this withdrawal to process you should probably do what has been asked. Good luck!
     
  10. May 7, 2014
  11. maphesto

    maphesto Dormant account

    Location:
    Sweden
    Are all PT casinos security there?

    Bet365? Ladbrokes? ClubGold (until recently)?

    I don't think I've heard of any player from those casino that had to send notarized docs to Philippines.
     
  12. May 7, 2014
  13. suzecat

    suzecat Dormant account CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    California
    Yes .... read your post on the link thread Nicola posted. ;)
     
  14. May 7, 2014
  15. homerbert

    homerbert I-Gaming Industry Representative webby

    Occupation:
    nothing :)
    Location:
    middle of Europe!
    When they finally start thinking? Why force to send player something to country which even not in Europe, this is so stupid. If you think player is abuser, i can give you one easy method to check - ask player to give your skype id, make video call, and let him just show his docs. 10 minutes of job, no headache for players and casino.
    If someone start use it, you owe me money for cool hint :D
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. May 7, 2014
  17. ChillBill

    ChillBill Banned User - Aussiedave in disguise

    Occupation:
    semi retired
    Location:
    Australia
    Albeit Philippines isn't Bangkok or some of those more questionable Asia countries but I wouldn't risk sending notorised Docs anywhere, especvially not say a birth certificate; passport or driver license. Too much personal information, which, if in the wrong hands could amount to identity fraud.
     
  18. May 7, 2014
  19. maphesto

    maphesto Dormant account

    Location:
    Sweden
    I have always thought that some independent Playtech casinos run their own security checks, and that the cheaper ones use Playtech's central support/security staff at Philippines.

    It's like their progressives, the independent (good ones) pays them in full and the other ones pay them in 10 000/month. Omni/Fly are somewhere inbetween with their rules.

    Please, can someone shed some light on this? I'll notify Simmo!! :)
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. May 7, 2014
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It's a subsidiary company, Paragon International Customer Care, now 100% owned by Playtech, that is based in the Philippines. It would appear therefore that even the accredited casinos outsource player verification to their software provider, which is actually pretty unusual as it is something one normally sees with white labels. A few casinos are smart, they cover this up by having a drop box in their licencing jurisdiction that forwards mail to the Philippines. Vernons asked a player to do the same, and then agreed that players from Europe should not be asked to send documents to the Philippines, and started giving out a UK address. The problem was that this is mere window dressing, they simply forwarded all such mail to the Philippines themselves, so in terms of ID theft worries, nothing had changed, it had merely been hidden.

    I suspect that many of the Playtech casinos we THINK use their own in house security actually just hide their outsourcing by quoting a drop box address in the EU, which forwards to Paragon International Customer Care.

    What is odder here is that they have suddenly escalated from a player who didn't need to provide documentation, all the way to the very rarest request of all. Even Notarised documents are usually sent via email, and provided they are clear, the status of the notary can still be verified.

    I am curious as to what the UKGC and other UK authorities think of all this, or do they not even know that this is pretty much standard procedure for some of the household name online casino offerings. Somewhere there is an approved list of countries that companies can send UK customers' data to for processing and storage. It would have all the EU countries on it by default, and others around the world considered safe enough with similar levels of protection under local laws. I don't know whether the Philippines have made the list yet, as in the past they were considered a "rogue" when it came to data security due to a lack of local regulation and enforcement, and endemic corruption. This was probably a legacy from the times of ex president Marcos and his shoe fetish wife, which must by now be a distant memory in the country. There are far worse places to be sending one's data.

    Ideally, online casinos should be contracting agents in the players' own countries to act as their eyes, so that wherever they are, the player only gets asked to post something to somewhere in his own country. The agent then looks at the physical documents and sends their findings to HQ.

    Perhaps we need a new accreditation standard, one that states that the casino cannot ask players to send anything by post other than to their own country (a contracted agent or local office), or the country which is their licensing jurisdiction.

    As for this case, the destination is pretty safe, it's in an enclosed business park in Manila that has all the latest "first world" standards of security. The problem is the journey there, it's a single envelope containing what amounts to an ID theft kit if it falls into the wrong hands. The contents are something we here in the UK are strongly advised against simply "sending in the post". Advise is to use a courier or special delivery, where there is higher security and an audit trail so that we can check that it has reached the destination intact.
     
    2 people like this.
  22. May 7, 2014
  23. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    It should be noted that this is not a request made regularly or as a matter of course.

    In all cases I've seen, there has been some doubt in regards to the bona fides of the player involved.

    Given that we don't know pokergrape from a bar of soap, and it's nothing personal, we should be careful about just accepting the OPs version of events.....especially seeing as they are somewhat thin in the details department.

    I'm certain there has been genuine players asked to complete this process I.e. dolphins in the shark net. However, this is the same with any anti fraud process.

    IMO, PT should refund all costs involved including notarization if the player is given the green light. It might go a way toward improving their image surrounding this process and make it more palatable.

    I'm pretty sure that PT terms state that they can ask for this stuff, so anyone affected has actually agreed to do it and doesn't really have the right to whine IMO. If you don't want to jump through such hoops, then don't frequent PT casinos. It's not difficult.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. May 7, 2014
  25. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall

    It's an old Playtech scam and IMO any CM accredited site (and NONE do except Playtech) that asks notarized ID regularly, especially overseas at big expense to the player should be in the pit. It's nothing but an untrustworthy and drawn-out slap in the face to a regular player when he/she wins too much or is up overall. This is as bad as those PT sites that withhold jackpots and pay them over years in instalments.

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...fore-making-payout-costing-perhaps-100-a.html

    Also read this horror story of how Vernons, a big UK name, used this stunt to delay paying a 42k winner who lived a mere 200 miles from their Head Office - Vernons later failed their BBF for a variety of reasons but the rep did say that in future they'd verify at a UK address rather than in some Banana Republic....

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...s/48953-vernons-casino-withholding-money.html

    Lastly, why is that every other casino/software doesn't have the notarized ID requirement and can check beyond reasonable doubt (except VERY rarely) without resorting to notaries? It also doesn't mention sending stuff to the Philippines in any PT T&C's that I've read, despite some of them mentioning the 'N'-word........I wonder why??
     
    4 people like this.
  26. May 7, 2014
  27. maphesto

    maphesto Dormant account

    Location:
    Sweden
    :thumbsup: Thanks for that, I think you have changed to the better about that!

    This might be the case, but at several cases before, they have not told this in T&C's. I think it was at casino.com as an example.
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. May 7, 2014
  29. lockinlove

    lockinlove Staring into the sun PABaccred

    Occupation:
    I work :D
    Location:
    Canada
    Notarised ID is bloody joke. Any casinos that request it should not be accredited.

    Unless OP is being flagged as scum
     
    2 people like this.
  30. May 7, 2014
  31. PNEFOREVER2

    PNEFOREVER2 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Parcel Sorter.
    Location:
    Preston,lancs
    This is why I always make sure I can get verified with ease at a casino before depositing (especially as I have no photographic ID). Too many casinos will say "oh, it's ok we don't need them yet, we only need them once you've won over a certain amount", hoping for you to win a large amount, they then whip out the ID documents request, so then if you don't have the necessary documents they ask for, they have you by the goolies.

    Don't mind having to fax or email things here or there, but soon as I'm told I have to jump through hoops like sending stuff to a far way land etc I will start looking elsewhere to deposit my money. Sod that for a game of soldiers.
     
  32. May 7, 2014
  33. maphesto

    maphesto Dormant account

    Location:
    Sweden
    Even the respected BET365 are probably "run" from Philippines:

    http://www.casinomeister.com/news/march2014/online_casino_news1/BET365-OUT-OF-THE-PHILIPPINES.php

    BET365 OUT OF THE PHILIPPINES

    07 March 2014

    No specific reason given for decision to depart a lucrative market

    One of the largest online gambling companies in the world, the UK-based bet365 group, has inexplicably decided to depart the Philippines market.

    Towards the end of February players in the region were told that the company's websites would be closed to them with effect from February 25 and that all account balances would be honoured. Given the excellent reputation of the operator there is no reason to doubt that assurance and to date no player payment complaints appear to have surfaced.

    The operator gave no specific reason for its exit from the Philippines, merely advising that its decision followed a review of operations.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. May 8, 2014
  35. dizze

    dizze Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    uk
    Thats pretty much the answer to this thread, send your stuff op and the casino should pay for it


    Reason being, your average person/online casino player will have a passport or will need one for identity purposes, you cannot say that for notarized docs and therefore the costs should be burdened by the casino.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. May 8, 2014
  37. mrmark21

    mrmark21 Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Telecommunications Consultant
    Location:
    australia
    Hit the nail on the head :thumbsup:

    Well I think a player has every right to "whine" about negative T&Cs. That doesn't change that they agreed to them and need to abide by them.
     
  38. May 8, 2014
  39. suzecat

    suzecat Dormant account CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    California
    HOW MUCH MONEY ARE THESE FEES?

    Being a Notary Public for bunches of years I know a single signature/document costs just a few bucks paid to the Notary. Then there is the cost your local mail service charges for getting your Notarized document to, in this case, the Philippines. Again a few bucks but won't require a home loan to cover. ;)

    We don't really know why PT has this rule, but they do. If you can't live with it then, as many have said, find another casino. Should you decide to deposit ... play and ... WIN :yahoo: you're gonna have to share those winnings with a Notary and your local postal service. You decide.
     
    2 people like this.

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