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Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by KasinoKing, Oct 22, 2004.

    Oct 22, 2004
  1. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Open letter to Fortune Lounge (so others can add their 2c worth!)

    I got a letter from FL with the heading: We want you back!
    It then goes on to say $65.8M has been cashed in by players this year. What do you mean by cashed in? Sounds like cash going into the casino! If it means cash going out, then its strange how you dont mention how many $M was deposited IN!
    And do you really mean $68.8M was actually paid out of peoples casino accounts to them in the form of checks or transfers to their bank? Or do you just mean the total value of their wins?
    (Theres a very unsubtle difference here! If a customer plays 100 hands of Blackjack at $10 a go wins half & loses half, some casinos would claim the punter had won 50 x $10 = $500! Obviously nonsense, but some do it).

    The letter goes on to say theres some exciting news that will raise my gambling career to lucrative heights.. <pause while I try to recover from sides split open with laughter> :D
    It then says All fortune Lounge players are offered deposit match bonuses. Even in your own letter you put those words inside quotation marks a common way people indicate something is not really as good at it sounds! I dont know what these bonuses are, but the newsletters I got every week or so for about 2 years (until you finally stopped sending them on my 5th request), were only offering 15% on re-deposits. Not even worth the effort of moving my mouse pointer over the link & clicking it.

    So Mr.Fortune-Lounge, if you really do want me back! youre going to have to try a bit harder!

    I want to make it clear I have nothing against FL whatsoever: Im sure they are great to play at and offer super customer service. But they are exactly the same as all the other Microgaming sites!
    As mentioned in one of my earlier posts: They nearly all offer great, very generous, sign-up bonuses some up to as much as 400%! But once youve joined a MG casino, all that most seem to offer is a 15-20% deposit match.
    Now Im not an out-and-out bonus hunter, but given the choice, for example, of depositing $90 and playing with $108 at Fortune Room, or depositing $90 and playing with $180 at Intercasino every month which one would YOU expect me to choose???

    To quote my own earlier post (MG bonuses I dont get them)
    Whats the difference to the casino, between a new player & a returning player? I.e. Why give 100% bonus to new players, but not to returning existing customers? Surely a player is a player!
    This policy positively encourages bonus hunters theres little or no incentive to return to the same casino when you can sign up to an identical one in minutes and get double your money again!
    I just dont understand why MG casinos dont do more to encourage a regular returning customer base its got to be better for them!

    I hope Mr. FL will take the time to reply, and explain to us all just why MG ongoing bonus offers for existing customers are so poor...
  2. Oct 22, 2004
  3. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    I like it, nicely said KK. I'd like to add to one aspect of this, and its not necessarily to FL, but to all casinos.

    I'm not interested in these 5,10,15% redeposit bonuses either, and never take advantage of them. Not worth the bother. But there are times when I have a prolonged losing streak and I'm sure this is something the casino would be able to tell by a quick query of their records. What you should do in this case, is offer me a 100% redeposit bonus to help get me back on the winning track. Say I lost $1000 and you offered me a 100% bonus up to $100 or $200 on my next deposit. That would certainly gain alot more loyalty than these useless little weekly bonuses.
  4. Oct 22, 2004
  5. paul02085

    paul02085 Senior Member

    Fishing :)
    R u kidding???

    "but the newsletters I got every week or so for about 2 years (until you finally stopped sending them on my 5th request),"

    The most amazing thing in your post is that they quit sending them :eek:
  6. Oct 24, 2004
  7. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    I don't have any problems with 15% bonuses as long as I can play BJ. About a year ago, I was getting 15%-25% bonuses on amounts from $500 to $800 every week from 5 FL casinos. That was $500-$600 bonus/week. I think it was definitely worth my while. :)
  8. Oct 24, 2004
  9. Sodax77

    Sodax77 Dormant account

    Human Being

    I save all e-mails, all chat-logs, all details when i try to unsubscribe one FL Poker Room newsletters/promo-letters/etc. After i follow all rules, and use their web-form 10-15 times, that didn't work (even i fill all details), i still got all these e-mails. Then i use their chat (about 5 times in 2 week period), and they promise everytime, that they will unsubscribe these newsletters/promo-letters/etc. They even sent me few confirmation e-mail, since first 2 unsubscribe didn't work (via chat), even i gave all details and they confirm that they will unsubscribe, and apology everytime (in e-mail and chat), if i still got these newsletters/promo-letters/etc.

    Ok, then i got 2x times more e-mails. I send nice letter, that i will report about this problem to eCogra, Casinomeister forum, WOL Forum, etc, also Hotmail/Yahoo-abuse center (don't remember that Abuse-place name now). They apology, and also confirm, that they will resent all these details to promotion-section, etc, etc, and he (support assistant) will check that they will unsubscribe these e-mails.

    And yes!!!!!!!!!!

    ~15 unsubscribe via web-form
    ~5 Chat-sessions
    ~10 E-mail

    They Unsubscribe their spamming! :notworthy

    IS THAT ALL????

    After they stop these e-mails

    And after few months, they sent me this:

    From: Fortune Lounge <Promotions@fortunemailer.net
    Subject: Please confirm

    Dear X

    Your details may have recently been added to one of our unsubscribe lists. As a result you have unsubscribed from our mailing list and will not be receiving further promotional emails and special offers from us.

    If you would like to continue receiving mails from us, please follow this link to change your subscription options.

    Many thanks,

    John Hughes
    Director, Fortune Lounge Marketing .

    Fortune Lounge carries the eCogra Players Seal of Approval.


    7Sultans | Fortune Room | Platinum Play | Royal Vegas | Vegas Palms | Vegas Villa
    Royal Vegas Poker | 7Sultans Poker

    This mail was sent to you as you have subscribed to receive news about 7Sultans, Fortune Room, Vegas Villa, Vegas Palms, Platinum Play and Royal Vegas promotions. If you'd like to change your subscription options, follow this link. "



    Sorry FL, i didn't use your link :D

    Please note: I know how to use filters, block addresses, etc.
    But i know, that they have to follow "spamming"-rules, so i didn't gave up!

    FL, i'm ready to next challenge! :cool:
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2004
  10. Oct 24, 2004
  11. sw2003

    sw2003 Dormant account

    somewhere :)
    Many people seem to have unsubscribed using their web-interface with no success! The emails keep on coming! If this is not a deliberate act then I don't know what is? The only other explanation is their web people are a bunch of incompetent fool. How many times do they need to be reminded that their web-interface does not work!
  12. Oct 26, 2004
  13. Sodax77

    Sodax77 Dormant account

    Human Being
    Fortune Lounge, do you have any comment to your unsubscribe problem.
    You are only one, who have this problem.

    From Casinomeister page:

    "Royal Vegas Poker

    Royal Vegas Poker is an established, well-respected and trusted online poker room. It is a member of the Fortune Lounge Group, one of the oldest and largest online casino groups, and which was voted Best Casino Group by the influential online casino watchdog, CasinoMeister. You enjoy all the support, security, integrity and service that go with playing at a Fortune Lounge poker room."

    If you give me time, i can send you all chat-logs, etc.
    Not for free :p
  14. Oct 26, 2004
  15. portia

    portia Dormant account

    Just be thankful they are not calling you on the phone.

    It'll take a half dozen requests to get them to stop calling, as well.
  16. Oct 26, 2004
  17. Sodax77

    Sodax77 Dormant account

    Human Being

    FL :sniper:
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2004
  18. Oct 26, 2004
  19. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Still no reply from Mr. FL.....

    Maybe he's too busy gambling... at Intercasino! :cool:
  20. Oct 26, 2004
  21. Petunia

    Petunia Dormant account

    How then?

    -- Well, now that we have established what we DON'T want them to do, what DO you want them to do?

    I for one would like a quiet bonus slipped into my account... Problem is that I would not know the T&C.

  22. Oct 26, 2004
  23. fortunelounge

    fortunelounge I-Gaming Industry Representative

    Operations Manager
    South Africa
    KasinoKing: "Cashed in" means exactly that and it doesn't sound like it was cashed in to the casino. No casino will disclose how much was deposited.

    This amount was paid out to players through their preferred method of payment.

    As explained this refers to amounts actually processed as cash-ins and paid out to players.

    Since you have requested not to receive any more promotional mailers you would not be aware of our offers. As a player you are in a good position to choose the best offer amongst the numerous on-line casinos.

    I would choose ours which has a wagering requirement of purchase + bonus x 10 instead of their 25 x bonus. Even if you receive a 100% purchase match from us on $100 purchase the wagering requirement is $2 000. If you purchase $100 with them you receive $90 and that x 25 is $2 250.

    Sign-up bonuses are designed to attract new players. Existing players receive regular bonuses and offers and are rewarded through our Players Club. Since you do not receive our promotions any more you would not be aware of these.

    VP Operations
    Fortune Lounge
  24. Oct 26, 2004
  25. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    This is skating on thin ice... A 100% FL bonus would usually only be for the sign-up offer, & would have such restrictive conditions (20% on BJ, no JoB) that you'd be much better off with a cryptologic bonus playable on most games.

    If we're dealing with one of the more common 15% offers then the wagering works out at something like 76 x bonus. I'm not criticising the bonus itself, just your attempt to claim that 25 x bonus is a much worse offer than your standard offers!
  26. Oct 26, 2004
  27. fortunelounge

    fortunelounge I-Gaming Industry Representative

    Operations Manager
    South Africa
    Vesuvio: You are absolutely correct. My example is only applicable to the maximum bonus scenario.

    This will teach me not to do quick replies.

    VP Operations
    Fortune Lounge
  28. Oct 26, 2004
  29. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Dear Mr FL,

    Thank you for answering my post, even if in a slightly 'political' way. (i.e. Not directly and clearly answering my main questions!)

    Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to 'have a go' at FL - I have great respect for your group, and have no complaints about your operation, (apart from the obviously widespread problem with unsubscribing from your newsletters!). But you said you 'want me back' - all I am saying is 'give me a good enough reason, and I'll come back'!

    Mind you, now that you've confirmed that you actually paid out $68.8M, it sounds like you're doing very nicely without me anyway! :thumbsup:

    It's true, I don't know what your current offers to existing players are, so perhaps you would be kind enough to reply again with this info?

    If indeed, they still are only 15-20% a month, with a 10x WR, then as Vesuvio said, this does NOT compare favorably with 100% & 25x WR.

    Now I'm not expecting you to start giving away generous bonuses with easy WR - of course not! Your casino's are in business to make money - not give it away and go broke! We all understand that.

    But with the maths on your side, can't you offer something a little better to challenge the players who think they can beat the odds?

    I'm not a maths genius, but maybe something like 50% bonus on $200 with 20x WR would still maintain a good house edge?

    Perhaps this would not attract the 'I'm gonna flat-bet blackjack at warp speed and see if I can get out with 20% of the bonus' players. But do you really want them anyway?

    But it would attract more 'recreational' players like myself who would see this as a reasonable challenge to try to beat the casino, and at the same time give me more playing time to have fun with the different games!

    This is just my own opinion and maybe I am completely wrong! But I think you would get more regular returning customers with more generous bonuses, and most likely end up making even more profits! (Like you need them! :D )
    You said you want me back, and I'm telling you how to do it!

    Further comments from you regarding the above would be nice.
    Best regards,
  30. Oct 27, 2004
  31. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Forget it. The FL is always the slowest among the MG casinos/groups to respond to anything. Only in June this year did you stop sending promotional materials to me and that was after several unsubscribing efforts on my side 9 months earlier. Talk about efficiency. You dont give quick replies anyway,so why bother giving excuses.
  32. Oct 27, 2004
  33. Sodax77

    Sodax77 Dormant account

    Human Being
    FL, i know i have a lot of criticism about your group (these based facts).


    1. But at least i like to hear, Are you ready to fix even your unsubscribe-problem, in E-mail / Phone Call section? You see what people say.

    That doesn't sound big problem, since other "mega-groups" don't have this problem.

    2. And just explore CM Forum, and you will see, how (well respected) VPL are ready to start own topic, and ask what players want or/and how they are ready to hear feedback from players!

    Can you do that?
  34. Oct 27, 2004
  35. snuf419

    snuf419 Dormant account

    That pretty much tells you about this guy's cerebral capacity.
  36. Oct 27, 2004
  37. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    WARNING: Dissing forum members will NOT be tolerated. This is not an us vs them issue - this is a conversation between players and the casino management.

    Any further violations of sensibilities will be dealt with accordingly. Thanks!
  38. Oct 27, 2004
  39. snuf419

    snuf419 Dormant account

    May I also suggest a revision of the bonus terms of your casino group. The bonus of your requirement D + (D+B)x10, as you have to wager your deposit once to get the bonus. And you also have to take into consideration the $1-$2 SURPRISING, GENEROUS, GRACIOUS NETeller bonus that your smart support group secretly adds to your account (and let you play it unknowingly and only notify you after you have requested a withdrawal which will then be turned down and winnings voided)

    Stop harrassing your players with those pityful 10% offers and you really will save yourself a lot of face. If you want more business, hire some streakers.

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