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Firepay Does Not Pay

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by babysister, Aug 4, 2002.

  1. babysister

    babysister Experienced Member MM


    I contacted As good as Gold Casino and they stated they paid my winnings to Firepay on June 26. The money was won on June 7 for a total of 651.00. Paypal paid my checking account the following day. However, Firepay did not return the funds to my checking account as I had indicated. Is it the reason that my bank canceled my Firepay account that you will not send me my winnings? It has been over a month and I haven't heard a word from Firepay concerning my winnings. My bank thought someone was raiding my account after 1250.00 was an ach debit to Firepay and therefore they stopped payments on any outgoing funds via ACH. But that is not an excuse for not sending my winnings or even a courtesy email informing me as to what was going on. If you have another kind of problem with my account that is stopping you from paying my winnings, I would appreciate a prompt response.
  2. babysister

    babysister Experienced Member MM

    on Sunday, I received a very sterile reply back from Firepay that really doesn't say anything and doesn't refer to my winnings:Dear Client,

    Thank you for your inquiry regarding the status of your FirePay Personal Account.

    Our records indicate that your account has been permanently disabled due a recent funding attempt from your bank account that did not clear your bank.


    The FirePay Team

    I wrote back to them the following: Firepay;

    I understand that and I explained what happen with the bank. After Firepay debited 1250.00 out of my account in increments of 75, 50, 100 dollars, they became suspicious and refuse to authorize anymore payments. (that is a good policy on my bank side) They will no longer authorize Ach payments. But what does that have to do with the money I won at As Good As Gold. You seem to keep avoiding the situation by not mentioning the money that is owe to me. Do I owe Firepay any money? I would appreciate an answer to my question as to what happen to the funds that As good as Gold paid to you that you were supposed to transfer back to my account. If you cannot transfer the funds to my bank account and they won't accept, please forward me a personal check. Please stop avoiding the issue and just explain what is the problem with your refusal to refund my winnings.
  3. imcasual

    imcasual Dormant account

    Babysister et al,
    I posted about Firepay several weeks ago due to a similar situation. It was actually a bank error for a big $30 that they had first approved and then, after the money was already gambled away, rescinded. Not only did Firepay treat me the same way, not returning emails, not even giving me "read only" access to my own account which I think is the ultimate in "BS" behavior, but I mysteriously became locked out of several casinos, a few at a time. THEY responded to my emails saying it was based on info received from Firepay and that they were the only ones who could tell those casinos that I was an okay person again, and unlock the accounts. No response despite repeated attempts to contact Firepay. Cowards! I have been locked out of some of my favorite casinos: The Fortune Group, OnLuck, ironically those where I tended to win. I have had nothing but losses since regardless of how conservatively I play. I'm at the point where I'll have to stop this form of entertainment altogether. Firepay is in for a tough road. I hear PayPal is filing bankruptcy. Many banks, including mine (Bank of America) are denying Central Coin deposit requests. There goes my option at RTG sites. Our ability to use our hard-earned money as we see fit is, to me, one of the building blocks of personal freedom. It's getting close to being taken away when an automated institution can approve or deny my purchasing decisions. My advice to fellow gamers? Watch your funding options carefully and DAILY. Yank anything residual if you're the least suspicious.
    -- and may each of us hit the jackpot (and get paid!) :wtf:
  4. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Here we go again....

    I honestly think that Big Brother runs these Ecash companies. It's a frightening thing for players of online casinos to rely on these providers since they have a lot of power to throw around and at times abuse.

    Most people use Paypal, etc. to buy flowers for their moms on mother's day, so normally normal people don't have too many problems. But with players of casinos, winnings are expected to be transferred sans problems. Yeah, right.

    Babysis...I would just be patient...let them fiddle around for a few more days and maybe they can get their ducks in line. Don't barrage them with emails since they are probably deleting most of them. Wait a few more days and see if you hear anything. I'll make an attempt to contact them as well.

  5. imcasual

    imcasual Dormant account

    "Here we go again", is right, Bryan. You may not recall but I had mentioned a similar situation with Firepay not too long ago. I truly hope that they loosen up and at least give her the courtesy of a response, for gosh sakes! I think most of us can be adults, here, but especially where winnings are involved it does so much more damage. I'm still a bit tiffed over being locked out of my favorite sites, particularly since 1) the rigidity of both funding conduits AND the casinos (which WE support, thank you) doesn't lend itself to good business in any venue. But when a player is, we expect, cheated out of winnings earned fair & square...well there's a big difference between being a mealy-mouthed, chicken **** organization and an Enron wannabe.
    (okay. I feel better now... 8) )
    ALLZ(apparently not)FAIR[color=aa00aa] :rolleyes: [/color]
  6. babysister

    babysister Experienced Member MM


    The only time I can make contact with them is when they email me stating "Please contact Firepay" and that is the only way to correspond with them. I will be patient but I have a feeling that I am not going to get anything back. Anyway, thanks for the assistant and others too for listening to my complaintSo player be careful and watch out for your bank account because Firepay just may not be putting your winnings back.
  7. babysister

    babysister Experienced Member MM

    Bryan; Here is the update to Firepay communication or lack there of:Subj: RE: Contact us from SureFire Web Site
    Date: 8/5/02 11:55:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    From: This email is not visible to you. (This email is not visible to you.)
    To: This email is not visible to you. ('This email is not visible to you.')

    Dear Arvis,
    You do not owe us any money. Any funds that you have won you must collect from the merchant directly. They are the ones that will send you the funds since your account is closed permanently.

    Keith L
    Risk Management, SureFire Commerce
    E-mail: This email is not visible to you.

    Now doesn't that sound like Firepay is shifting the blame on the casino. As Good As Gold Casino has done nothing wrong. I requested all funds be deposited back into my checking account. The casino sent Palpay their share and all was well until Firepay decided not to pay me. :mad: :confused:


    Right now, I have the accounting department investigating the situation at As Good As Gold because they sent my winnings to Firepay. So who is responsible to see to it that I receive my money? :confused:
  8. doktersuz

    doktersuz Dormant account

    I've been following this thread, and have felt very bad for you, and also felt a bit guilty - the problems with Firepay have existed since Firepay first started, and those of us who figured out they didn't pay any money BACK to users probably didn't do enough to make a big stink about the problem. There are too many complicated issues surrounding online gambling for any problem to ever be simple, and the problem of Firepay has been compounded by the problem that it has been used and viciously defended by the majority of online gamblers who have to be considered gambling addicts (please understand I'm not accusing all Firepay users of being gambling addicts, and am only saying that unfortunately, it became a favorite of a number of gambling addicts, and that group of people abusively attacked anyone who complained about not ever being paid back the money they had in Firepay, until we got tired of trying to warn others - keep in mind that the problem here is that most addicts don't ever make withdrawals, especially from an account like Firepay or PayPal, and so they abusively attacked people who complained, calling them liars, troublemakers, & far worse (lol), even though most of them admitted, upon pressure, that they had never even attempted to withdraw their money - many of them did and continue to consider any online gambler who actually expects to cash out money to have no place gambling at all, and the abusive statements got ugly - most of us quickly backed off so that the message boards weren't used in such a verbally abusive and completely useless manner). Unfortunately, by backing off the issue, it's likely that Casinomeister and some of the other advocacy groups have never been fully aware of how serious the problem with Firepay has been all along. Most of us were careful w/Firepay in the beginning, and therefore found out they didn't pay back anything before we had large amounts of money involved, and there was a period of time, about 6-10 months ago, when casinos were dropping Firepay like crazy, because of the very problems you've complained about. Other casinos that kept Firepay as an option seldom actually paid winnings back to Firepay unless we requested it, and a number of us, myself included, managed to get most of our money out of Firepay by depositing to those casinos, and then having them pay our winnings to our PayPal accounts or by check. I'm sorry that we failed newcomers to the industry by not making sure they knew of the problems, but the issue became so charged that most of the message boards would have been destroyed if we hadn't stopped writing about the realities of Firepay (I have continued to occasionally post statements, primarily aimed at Americans, explaining that Firepay is a business located in Spain and run under Spanish laws, which don't provide the protections Americans are used to having in consumer and financial matters, and trying to make sure Americans understood that they had few or no legal rights if something went wrong with Firepay because of that, but even those statements tended to bring very abusive responses from the people who hadn't ever tried to withdraw from the Firepay accounts, but insisted Firepay paid everyone who asked because they feared the downfall of Firepay would mean they'd have no way to feed their addictions). I don't know what has happened since Firepay began requiring users to link their bank accounts (except I'm aware that Firepay has been frequently accused of initiating withdrawals that users didn't authorize, with the money going to Firepay and not the person's Firepay account - and since it's a Spanish company, unless an individual's bank was willing to reimburse the money, the person had no ability to get the money back), but before Firepay initiated that system, I never heard of a single person who was ever paid anything when they requested a withdrawal from their Firepay account - there might be a few people who did get paid, but large numbers of us discussed it quite a bit for a while, & no one out of those hundreds of people had ever received a dime in response to requests for withdrawals, even though most of us had tried. Firepay completely ignored our requests, as though we never made them. That's when some casinos started dropping them and others began to help us get our money by accepting Firepay deposits, but paying us winnings thru other means (that's how I got my money out). That approach might still work for people with money stuck in Firepay who haven't had their accounts locked, but I'm uncomfortable listing the casinos' names in an open forum, because of some peculiarities in how Firepay operates that could cause problems for those casinos (many are on Casinomeister's recommended list, tho).
    Most of us considered Firepay very dangerous long ago, and quit using them nearly a year ago except to get our money out safely thru casino deposits. I hope that people reading about your problems will realize that U.S. laws are NOT the norm when it comes to consumer protection, and always be cautious about Firepay and any other non-U.S.-based financial option (find out about the laws and regulations that govern them - and read the info at the sites like Firepay - Firepay's regs used to say pretty clearly that they could refuse to pay for their own reasons, which was a huge warning sign to those of us who read the info).
    Please don't feel I'm blaming you for what happened, because it's NOT your fault when a fraudulent business takes your money - and most of us have been taken advantage of more than once in this industry for significant amts of money. What I want to do is warn everyone that the dangers of Firepay ARE serious, that most of us probably weren't tied into Casinomeister and similar sites enough to report our own problems when we had them so Casinomeister never realized the full extent or seriousness of the problems, and remind everyone to be aware that the laws of their own country aren't the same as other countries, and when they deal with a business in a different country, the laws that count are the ones where the business is.
    I hope Casinomeister can help those people who have lost money recently and have no way of getting it back any other way. But I have to warn you that Casinomeister cannot always help, because some businesses simply don't care if their reputations are finally given the appropriate negative statements they deserve, because they figure plenty of gamblers will continue to use them anyway. And in this industry, until players are willing to refuse to use casinos and financial agents that are KNOWN to be dishonest (and blacklisted casinos continue to have plenty of users, which is ridiculous), we will all continue to suffer and the industry won't improve. Firepay's behavior is another indicator that unless players finally start to band together for a greater good and demand honesty, the industry will continue to be filled with dishonest and fraudulent businesses. You shouldn't lose your money, and Good As Gold IS a good casino - but start to prepare yourself for the unfortunate likelihood that you won't get your money back from Firepay. I'm truly sorry, and I promise to be far more proactive about reporting such problems, and hope others will do the same - that's how we will improve this industry. (sorry this is so long, lol)
  9. babysister

    babysister Experienced Member MM

    Gosh, If I had known all that information a couple of months ago, I never would have used Firepay. Several casinos were really promoting Firepay and with the takeover of Paypal, I just naturally assume Firepay would be the way to go. Well,they took care of the problem and permanently banned me. That's ok. I will continue to use Paypal until we can not use them anymore. Paypal has a excellent record. I always receive my funds back to my account the next day. What is your take on Netteller. I think it will be the next money taker after Paypal dies. I have notice lately that a lot of casinos are really promoting Netteller. Do you know where it is originate from, country, whose running it? Like you said before, keep us newcomers educated about these fraudulent businesses. Thanks for responding and please let me know about Netteller. :blush:
  10. nasty

    nasty Guest

    My wife and I (separate accounts)did receive about a dozen withdrawls from Firepay. From June 2001 with the last on June 1 2002. They were small, all $150 or less. Quit using them when they required revealing bank account number. Glad I did from what I am reading. Whole online scene
    has changed alot in past year, even alot of the the good ones have turned bad.

    Goodluck Babysister
  11. babysister

    babysister Experienced Member MM


    Subj: RE: (no subject)
    Date: 8/6/02 10:57:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    From: This email is not visible to you.
    To: This email is not visible to you. ('This email is not visible to you.')

    Dear XXXX,

    The funds that were sent back to your FirePay Account by your merchants were to cover the amounts of the 5 non sufficient funds cheques that you had written in the end of July. Your FirePay Account currently has a $0 balance.

    Please reply to this email if you have any further questions.

    Best Regards,
    FirePay Personal Accounts
    Customer Service
    This email is not visible to you.
    **** Please include this email in your reply ***

    -----Original Message-----
    From: This email is not visible to you. [mailto:This email is not visible to you.]
    Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 6:29 PM
    To: This email is not visible to you.
    Cc: This email is not visible to you.
    Subject: (no subject)


    The merchant, As Good As Gold Casino stated that they sent all winning back to Firepay on june 26 but you did not pass those funds into my bank account. This is what the whole issue is about. What happen to the funds I won that the casino sent to Firepay?


  12. babysister

    babysister Experienced Member MM

  13. babysister

    babysister Experienced Member MM


    I was blessed today by receiving a letter from the almighty Firepay. Here goes:

    Subj: ARVIS, your recent funding has failed to clear your bank
    Date: 8/16/02 8:10:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    From: This email is not visible to you. (FirePay)
    Reply-to: This email is not visible to you.
    To: This email is not visible to you. (ARVIS)

    Dear ARVIS,

    Our records indicate that one or more attempts to fund your FirePay Personal Account
    from your bank account have failed to clear.

    We would like to offer you, a valued FirePay member, the opportunity to honor
    your returned check(s) and have your FirePay Personal Account reactivated.

    To do so, please reply to this email indicating this intention, and we will re-present the check(s)
    electronically on the 1st or 16th of the month, whichever is earlier.

    We thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.


    The FirePay Team

    Boy, the mess is knee deep in here....My last letter from fire pay, you can read it above, stated I did not owe them any money and that I was permanently block from Firepay. Back then, they said since my check did not clear they were going to keep my winnings to cover the check the bank refused to process any further checks from Firepay. Now all of a sudden they have come up with a check and I quess they want me to authorize my bank to process the check. Hell naw, not after the way they did me. Now I can come back and play if I be a good little girl and give them what they want. Well, a month ago, they wouldn't give me my casino winnings and lock me out of everything. I have it in black and white. Firepay said I do not owe them anything and that they were going to keep my winnings to cover the checks my bank won't approve and that I was permanently banned from Firepay. Now I have reached the status of one of their honored customers that they don't want to lose. That is , if I would honor the check. Well if they returned my winnings, I might just think about it to clear my good name. But do you really believe they are going to restore me to my privileges and high standings if I honor the check. I went to great lengths explaining how the bank thought someone was raiding my account when they started taking 1250.00 out of my account , so the bank froze my account. But firepay got real nasty over the whole incident and kept my money. So if they want their money, then let them give me my money I won back and we will be even. So I took my winnings I received from paypal, the hell with firepay and went on my merry way. end of saga.
  14. tricon11

    tricon11 Dormant account

    I started using FirePay when they came online, so I must be one of the few that has never had a problem with them. Course I never bounced a check with them either LMAO!

    (Message edited by tricon11 on December 12, 2003)
  15. jigga

    jigga Dormant account

    Actually, i think i can remember a period of time (in 2002 - i think) i had NOTHING but problems with Firepay. Maybe it was bad management or too early in its program life. I think that is what drove me to use Neteller - they are straight and quick and for some reason, i think the casinos seem to prefer them.
  16. tricon11

    tricon11 Dormant account

    I tried Neteller. They are thieves. Charge for deposit charge for withdrawal. I guess that's why the casinos love them, they make more money off them. Hence all the posts bad mouthing FirePay.
    Each to his own ;o))
  17. lanidar

    lanidar Dormant account

    When you go to an ATM machine in your local convenience store don't you get charged a fee?
    They have never charged me for a deposit or withdrawal. It takes maybe 2 or 3 days for your funds to be transferred but so what?
    Any person who plays online regularly should be prepared and have enough money in his/her account for wagering at all times.
    This is just a friendly suggestion. :D
  18. rainman

    rainman Dormant account

    that's ecash direct that charges you for a withdrawal not neteller. I use a bank card for deposits to avoid 3.9 processing fee by neteller hten withdrawal to neteller.Ah no atm does not charge me to use it as long as its the card for that atm.Ex. pnc bank card at a pnc bank atm is free to use.
  19. jigga

    jigga Dormant account

    True rainman, but as lanidar said, if you ever get stuck at a local convenience store, the chances are you will be paying quite the fee even for a small amount of cash.

    Doesn't happen that often, but it happens.
  20. babysister

    babysister Experienced Member MM

    :lame: }{WOW!!!

    I thought someone was impersonating me when I read that post from "Babysister". Whose raiding the the archives????????

    [color=ff0000]That post is Over a YEAR Old!!!!

    Merry Christmas To All, the real BS.

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