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Fed up with delay tactics for paying out!

Discussion in 'Payment Processing Issues' started by PeekABoo, Mar 18, 2012.

    Mar 18, 2012
  1. PeekABoo

    PeekABoo Newbie member

    Occupation:
    That is personal
    Location:
    Canada
    Online Casinos seem to be lowering their customer service standards more and more. Last year I left Royal Vegas Casino (Fortune Lounge Group) when they removed their account flushing possibility and extended the payout schedules. Now VIP Lounge (Jackpot Factory Group) has followed suit and left their customers and their reputation for fast payouts in the dirt. VIP Lounge no longer processes payouts on the weekend so they allow your money to languish.

    Pay attention online casinos, there are still many land casinos out there clamouring for their fair share of our hard earned cash and SURPRISE!!!! The payouts are immediate. When we pay our money to play, you would not accept our playing if the money was processed only after three days and we played immediately. We do not accept that we win and our money is only paid out after 3 or more days.

    To all my fellow players out there, we can make a difference if we boycott each casino for one week. No revenue should make them realize that we have discretion over where we play and the rules that they so arbitrarily change on us.

    There are many groups who no longer enjoy any of my pay check as they do not value their players and have made a mockery of the term fast payouts. It’s time we send a message back that we deserve respect and fast payouts.
     
    2 people like this.
  2. Mar 18, 2012
  3. slotplayer

    slotplayer Webmeister webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    USA
    its not surprising given the state of the global economy.
     
  4. Mar 18, 2012
  5. PeekABoo

    PeekABoo Newbie member

    Occupation:
    That is personal
    Location:
    Canada
    Although I do understand there is a slowdown in the economy wouldn't that make it even more important to hang on to good customers?
     
  6. Mar 18, 2012
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It IS in some ways. To combat recession, businesses normally fight harder to hang on to what customers they have, and try harder to entice new ones to try them out. Online casinos seem only interested in stepping up their efforts to bring in new customers, but make changes that tend to drive away their long standing ones.

    Jackpot Factory have always had a small team over the weekend, and straight forward payments would be actioned. It was only payments that needed manual intervention that were held over till the next working week. They have always offered flushing for VIP players at least, and if not flushed, it was only a 24 hour pending period.

    The worst change was BelleRock going from 48 hours to 10 days. My boycott began after that 10 day pending withdrawal was finally paid, and has lasted far longer than one week (still ongoing in fact).

    BelleRock made matters worse by lying to Simmo about what was going on, and would presumably have lied to Bryan had he asked at the time. I believe they backed off from this change after the publicity on the forum, but they never officially admitted to the change in the first place, and certainly never officially stated that the policy had been reversed. Only Main Street with their 14 day pending period have made a worse change, and this was enough to have them removed from accredited.

    The original idea of stating so many days for payment was so that a realistic idea of how long the process took was given to players. Now, we have casinos deliberately stringing out the process to inflate the delays, rather than them being an inevitable consequence of processing issues beyond the control of the casinos.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Mar 18, 2012
  9. PeekABoo

    PeekABoo Newbie member

    Occupation:
    That is personal
    Location:
    Canada

    Very succinctly put, thank-you. We are also part of that recession therefore consideration since we are the ones risking our little and hard earned cash should be first and foremost in the casino's minds. It takes but one action or inaction to lose a valuable repeat client.
     
  10. Mar 18, 2012
  11. ThePOGG

    ThePOGG Meister Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Casino Affiliate
    Location:
    UK
    Historically this is always the way the casino industry deals with a loss of revenue. Ironicallly rather than taking the gamble on increasing their marketing spend and offering more desireable games in terms or rules and payout settings, they do what they feel isn't a gamble and start reducing their offers, finding any reason to hold on to player's money for as long as they can and offering progressively worsening rules - look at the spread of 6:5 blackjack in the US casinos in the last few year. Where recessions make a quality customer focused business better, it make casinos worse.
     
  12. Mar 18, 2012
  13. fanihi

    fanihi Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Hospitality/Tourism Manager
    Location:
    Guam
    officially on break

    I just uninstalled the last casino on my computer. Time to take a break until
    things get better.
     
  14. Mar 19, 2012
  15. Jackpot Factory

    Jackpot Factory Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Content & PR Manager
    Location:
    Malta
    Response from David B. VP Player Affairs

    Hi everyone,

    I would like to clarify this issue, please. Our processor has never actually processed withdrawals over the weekends. The funds were removed from the casino software and then sat idle until Monday. So this new policy is simply a reflection of the reality on the ground. The processors don’t and won’t process over the weekends since there are many issues such as risk and fraud which can’t be handled by the skeleton weekend staff. I understand that people think this is a underhanded tactic developed by the casinos and they’re obviously entitled to their opinion. However, the reality is simply that the financial world of online gaming is a complex one with extremely complicated risk issues. Yes, at an individual level, things are very simple. And no, I am not at all, in any way, shape or form accusing anybody of fraud. But collectively speaking, we need to be safe. We have our internal regulations as well as eCOGRA regulations to stand by. I hope this explanation will be satisfactory to most of you.

    All the best,

    David Brickman
    VP Player Affairs
    Jackpot Factory Casino Group
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2012
  16. Mar 19, 2012
  17. zeledrith

    zeledrith Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Team Manager
    Location:
    Singapore
    I still think adding back the ability to flush withdrawals will be awesome.

    I didn't know about the Jackpot Factory withdrawal times and inability to flush till I asked recently.

    I had won around $1000+ after fighting a $5000 WR and finally able to withdraw.

    Went to the online chat and asked if I could flush my withdrawal and the response was "Why do we need to do that? If you don't want to lose the money just don't play!"

    Add that to the funds just lingering there the entire weekend eventually I reversed and just played it out and lost everything. (Of course this is my fault)

    However If I was playing at 32RED I wouldn't have faced that problem at all.

    Well, lesson learnt and casino uninstalled promptly, back to playing at places like BetFred who paid me in less than 8 hours recently, or the 32RED group who could flush my withdrawals.

    My 2 cents,
    Kelvin
     
  18. Mar 19, 2012
  19. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    What I don't get is why some processors is working at weekends and others not?
    If they don't use a processor that is willing to pay out on weekends the possibility to flush the cashout would be the only reason I would play there.
    I play at 32Red's casinos and at Inetbet because they do pay me as fast as I want, weekends or not.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Mar 19, 2012
  21. PeekABoo

    PeekABoo Newbie member

    Occupation:
    That is personal
    Location:
    Canada
    Dear David: I have been paid out by VIP on weekends and have the data to prove that it is so. I appreciate your comments, however I do not appreciate being subtlety branded as having told an untruth. Please review and revise according to what is as I will not hesitate to publish the information I have should this not be retracted.
     
  22. Mar 19, 2012
  23. PeekABoo

    PeekABoo Newbie member

    Occupation:
    That is personal
    Location:
    Canada
    Sorry to hear about your bad experience Kelvin, I've been with The VIP Lounge for a few years now and have to say honestly they have treated me extremely well. In the past they have been very responsive and helpful. I do understand that they are following an industry trend and feel it's a shame. However I cannot in good conscience meekly accept the arbitrary rule changing. They have by the way paid out all that was owed me in an excellant manner in the past. I've been more than satisfied. It's a shame but unless they retract their new stance, I will have no option but to go somewhere that I feel valued as a client.
     
  24. Mar 19, 2012
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I have also been paid on a weekend, and in discussions with VIP support on occasions when the "norm" of being paid on a weekend didn't occur, I was told that the skeleton staff only put through what could be automated, and not needing any manual intervention or risk assessment. The hold till Monday was because that withdrawal DID need manual action, and this is not something that the skeleton staff do.

    It is correct that players' expectations are not raised by clarifying that processing is not done at the weekends, so that when it does happen, it is something extra to be appreciated, rather than cause for complaint when it doesn't.

    The issue of flushing is different. Flushing removes the cashout from the software, making it much harder for the player to reverse and lose it. Whilst it doesn't mean much if done over the weekend, it DOES at least protect the player from reversing it easily and losing it, so that when Monday comes along, there is still something to process.

    During the week, flushing DOES make a difference, it saves one day of waiting. A flush on Thursday can make the difference between getting processed on the Friday, or the Monday.

    Whenever I have requested a flush, it has been done without quibble, so this must be a pretty recent change in policy.
     
  26. Mar 19, 2012
  27. PeekABoo

    PeekABoo Newbie member

    Occupation:
    That is personal
    Location:
    Canada
    Honestly because I did not request a flush as I erroneously assumed it was business as usual when I cashed out Thursday night, I cannot comment on the flushing. However I do know, that when I contacted them and enquired as to why my cash out was not being processed on Saturday I was told it was a change in policy.
     
  28. Mar 19, 2012
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    So, what's the truth?

    The rep says they have NEVER processed over the weekend, and this is just a "clarification" of what has always been policy, yet I, among others, have often been paid over the weekend in the past.

    These risks of paying at the weekend were ALREADY catered for by the old policy, because any withdrawal that needed any form of assessment was always held over till Monday; it was existing players who's withdrawals were routine, and already assessed as safe, that were processed by the skeleton team. This change therefore makes no difference to the risks involved, it merely cuts a service that loyal players used to have.

    32Red process at weekends, and surely face the SAME risks, and are also eCogra seal holders, so trying to imply that not processing at weekends is somehow connected to eCogra requirements is bullshit. It has NOTHING to do with external forces, this is purely an INTERNAL policy decision, but one management are ashamed of, so have to shift the blame to outside forces.

    Jackpot Factory also use an in-house processor, so they can't even blame the processor, as again the owners of Jackpot Factory also own the processor, so are in full control of even this "external force".

    It's probably nothing more sinister than getting rid of the skeleton weekend crew altogether, a purely cost saving measure, and sod the players who now have to put up with waiting till the next working week for EVERY withdrawal, not just those needing further checks or manual intervention.

    It seems that the industry is trying to see how much they can cut from service levels whilst not making too much of a dent in revenue. Since the industry as a whole is moving in this direction, there is no immediate danger of players taking their custom elsewhere in large enough numbers to be cause for concern. No amount of boycott over this issue could match the pain of losing the whole US market almost overnight.

    Of course, this is great news for the few operators like 32Red who have decided not to follow the general trend of cutting service levels, as there are at least a few places players can defect to in order to once again get the levels of service they used to have almost everywhere.
     
  30. Mar 19, 2012
  31. PeekABoo

    PeekABoo Newbie member

    Occupation:
    That is personal
    Location:
    Canada
    Thanks this is very succinct and you have captured the comments concerning ECogra etc... Being a brutally honest person, I do not appreciate any type of manipulation or fallacy. This type of misleading statement will not enhance the decision they made nor will it re-establish the sense of trust people had.
     

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