Everymatrix should be rogued IMHO

The Blue Anchor

Non-Gambler
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Location
UK
There have been a few threads on EM and their SE policy, so apologies for starting another one.

I have been in conversation with them after accidentally opening an a/c with Viks casino when I didn't spot it was part of their network. I am SE'd from Jetbull and one other and I know the score so would not have joined deliberately.

Anyway, I am not so worried about getting my deposits back - but more so about their whole lack of a joined up approach to self exclusion which appears to be a deliberate ploy to maximise income.

I joined Viks with exactly the same user and personal details as the two I am excluded from - so why did they still let me join when a simple database script would have prevented it - and this is hardly a new issue.

Since I pointed it out to them, they have sent me 3 different emails pointing to their T&Cs which specifically allow them to make no effort to weed out SE'd customers and then to keep their deposits and winnings.

As I said, this is not about the deposits - but what seems to be a deliberate decision to allow SE'd customers to play until either they win or they stop playing - and then to block them and keep the funds.

I should add the Viks themselves are not interested in discussing this, even though I presume they get to keep the lions share of the money. All they say is 'not our problem talk to EM'.

Anyway, whether it will do any good, I am going to write to the regulator about this. (not to request my deposits back, but to make them aware of what I believe is deliberate flouting of the UKGC guidance on self exclusion for the purposes of making more money).
 
I am not self excluded at any EM casino but have decided not to play at any of them again.
How hard would it be to have a little note on the registration form asking players to confirm that they were not self excluded from any EM casino (including a list of them of course)
Also I wonder how many peeps have lost at these joints blissfully unaware that they never stood a chance of cashing out - really bad form from EM

Hope the regulator takes notice!
 
At risk of slipping into a state of torpor over this repetitive yet important issue, I agree. Again, I spoke to the UKGC at ICE and they have already had "an inordinate amount of complaints" over EM and are looking to address it. I will not promote any EM sites until this problem is resolved in a fair and clear manner, nor do I play at any. A solution is looooooong overdue....:rolleyes:
 
SE at EM a big problem - YES!

Rogue all EM casinos, Unfair!

What about the 'good guys' who do make an effort to run their operations professionally - Maybe a change like when Guts switched from EM to igamingcloud

Casinos such as Next and Casino Luck are very well run IMO and don't deserve to be rogued.

SE is a big issue and hopefully some one will sit up and take notice soon but it is also not the be all and end all of a casinos stature!
 
SE at EM a big problem - YES!

Rogue all EM casinos, Unfair!

What about the 'good guys' who do make an effort to run their operations professionally - Maybe a change like when Guts switched from EM to igamingcloud

Casinos such as Next and Casino Luck are very well run IMO and don't deserve to be rogued.

SE is a big issue and hopefully some one will sit up and take notice soon but it is also not the be all and end all of a casinos stature!

Not rogue the casinos, personnel etc. but rogue EM - a big difference. Maybe if casinos were less likely to sign-up to the EM license or foresaw a whole lot of aggravation if they did, then EM would provide an adequate infrastructure to their clients - cross-referencing details on behalf of their clients would be a start....:)
 
Not rogue the casinos, personnel etc. but rogue EM - a big difference. Maybe if casinos were less likely to sign-up to the EM license or foresaw a whole lot of aggravation if they did, then EM would provide an adequate infrastructure to their clients - cross-referencing details on behalf of their clients would be a start....:)

Apologies, mis-read it.

Was slotting at the time, more proof that us blokes can't multi-task I know!

Yes totally agree with the EM stance.

Pity that good operations get cast under the same umbrella tho.
 
I agree EveryMatrix are absolutely awful and should be brought to task about this.

I also feel sorry for the good brands on EveryMatrix. Next casino, superlenny etc. These are good responsible operations in my opinion and they are falling under this umbrella. These casinos deserve to be accredited at casinomeister.

However this Self Exclusion stunt at EM is really bad. Of course it is good for the casinos bottom line as they get to freeroll a load of gamblers.

The thing that gets me the most is that they do of course have the technology to check a sign up if they want to. Its 2016 and databases are easily checked automatically. I wonder what happens if you try and sign up to an EM casino if you have had your account closed at another one for doing something bad? Lets say someone did a chargeback at one EM establishment and got banned then a few weeks later tried to sign up to another one. I would bet it is not allowed and it is policed on sign up not on withdrawal attempt.
 
I agree EveryMatrix are absolutely awful and should be brought to task about this.

I also feel sorry for the good brands on EveryMatrix. Next casino, superlenny etc. These are good responsible operations in my opinion and they are falling under this umbrella. These casinos deserve to be accredited at casinomeister.

However this Self Exclusion stunt at EM is really bad. Of course it is good for the casinos bottom line as they get to freeroll a load of gamblers.

The thing that gets me the most is that they do of course have the technology to check a sign up if they want to. Its 2016 and databases are easily checked automatically. I wonder what happens if you try and sign up to an EM casino if you have had your account closed at another one for doing something bad? Lets say someone did a chargeback at one EM establishment and got banned then a few weeks later tried to sign up to another one. I would bet it is not allowed and it is policed on sign up not on withdrawal attempt.

Superlenny is under the Betit license like Kaboo and Thrills - it's time the UKGC updated their lists to reflect this.
 
I think it has something to do with dataprotection. Each operator can not have access to any other casinos players. Some are verifying their players themselves and others are using EM's service. So computer freaks...is it possible for EM to really technically put in checks on each websites sign up pages?

Maybe they can't so what is the only way to get rid of the problem?
Each operator must verify everyone that signs up before they allow them to deposit. Players will also get information on why the verification needs to be done. Problem solved and remember that it only effect UK players.
At least this is the only thing I can think about. On the other hand... Why haven't the operators already started to do it?
 
I think it has something to do with dataprotection. Each operator can not have access to any other casinos players. Some are verifying their players themselves and others are using EM's service. So computer freaks...is it possible for EM to really technically put in checks on each websites sign up pages?

Maybe they can't so what is the only way to get rid of the problem?
Each operator must verify everyone that signs up before they allow them to deposit. Players will also get information on why the verification needs to be done. Problem solved and remember that it only effect UK players.
At least this is the only thing I can think about. On the other hand... Why haven't the operators already started to do it?

Yes it is. All the casino needs to do is do the registration through the licensee, i.e. EM's database. This would be back end stuff, the player would not see it, and as for data protection, this would be within the individual licensee (EM) so would not breach data regs. as the individual casinos are in effect sub-licensees. Further proof can be seen with the UKGC's plans to have a centralized database of problem gamblers/SE players. This would actually go across ALL UKGC licensees, therefore if that's within DP ipso facto the sub-licensees can share data.

You will also notice in T&C's there is a provision (see C*ss*va for example) which explains data can/will be shared for the purpose of duplicate accounts or excluded accounts.

There is no lawful reason why EM can't do it.

It's either expense, they can't be assed or they're creaming in as much revenue as they can before they are FORCED to do it.

You'll find also for example RB/WB/Heypoker cross-reference, as do Grosvenor/Mecca under the same license. So it's clear most accredited sites already have adequate checks in the case of SE.
 
Yes it is. All the casino needs to do is do the registration through the licensee, i.e. EM's database. This would be back end stuff, the player would not see it, and as for data protection, this would be within the individual licensee (EM) so would not breach data regs. as the individual casinos are in effect sub-licensees. Further proof can be seen with the UKGC's plans to have a centralized database of problem gamblers/SE players. This would actually go across ALL UKGC licensees, therefore if that's within DP ipso facto the sub-licensees can share data.

You will also notice in T&C's there is a provision (see C*ss*va for example) which explains data can/will be shared for the purpose of duplicate accounts or excluded accounts.

There is no lawful reason why EM can't do it.

It's either expense, they can't be assed or they're creaming in as much revenue as they can before they are FORCED to do it.

You'll find also for example RB/WB/Heypoker cross-reference, as do Grosvenor/Mecca under the same license. So it's clear most accredited sites already have adequate checks in the case of SE.
Redbet and the others are the same company as far as I know. Just different skins.

EM would in your case also have to split UK customers from the rest of the world since we have different rules. Maybe it would be too complicated.
We're just speculating as usual. I'm sure they must have thought of all things they can do. Especially since all casinos that are using their license dislike what is happening...at least most of them.

I think that what I hate most of this whole mess is the fact that Every Matrix haven't been transparent about it. I've asked 10 times, no reply. I've been writing 300 post about it, and I don't think I know more now than when it started. I am more confused though:D

So all casinos that don't want this to happen, why is this still happening?
 
So all casinos that don't want this to happen, why is this still happening?

Yep exactly, and this is the most important point.

The way they do it just now is good (if unethical) for the casino/everymatrix's bottom line. They get to freeroll all these players.

One has to question if that is part of the reason EM have not done anything about it despite this being an issue for months (years?).

If there was a big issue that was costing EveryMatrix money every day how quickly do you think they would fix it?
 
I really can't see why there needs to be so many casinos under one licence/group as surely it creates too many problems? Can't they just concentrate on one flagship branded casino and be happy there? Would make self exclusion a lot easier and be a lot more transparent on the market.

I dread to think how many brands there are under Cassava/888 .......

Can't see why the market has to be so saturated with different casino names when they are just clones of each other in the same group with the same games.

Bit like dating triplet girls - they all do the same, feel the same and look the same, but cost three times as much! And guaranteed if you exclude/upset one, the other two will freeze you out even though you had nothing against them!
 
VIKS.com answer.

There have been a few threads on EM and their SE policy, so apologies for starting another one.

I have been in conversation with them after accidentally opening an a/c with Viks casino when I didn't spot it was part of their network. I am SE'd from Jetbull and one other and I know the score so would not have joined deliberately.

Hello,

First of all thank you for registering on our site.

It is a very interesting post and I agree that it should be an easier way to handle these cases. We are thankful that you brought this to our attention since we are investigating in it
and trying to figure out the best method to keep everything in line.

We would like to hear how it all ended and if you got your refund, also the feedback on our support and if you found it helpful.

Do not hesitate to contact us if you need any further assistance.

Sincerely

VIKS.com
 
Hello,

First of all thank you for registering on our site.

It is a very interesting post and I agree that it should be an easier way to handle these cases. We are thankful that you brought this to our attention since we are investigating in it
and trying to figure out the best method to keep everything in line.

We would like to hear how it all ended and if you got your refund, also the feedback on our support and if you found it helpful.

Do not hesitate to contact us if you need any further assistance.

Sincerely

VIKS.com

As I said in my (unanswered) PM - nothing happened. EM just quoted their T&Cs and Viks refused to discuss it at all.
 
VIKS.com

As I said in my (unanswered) PM - nothing happened. EM just quoted their T&Cs and Viks refused to discuss it at all.

Hello hello,

I hope you are good.

I was on a short vacation, sorry for the late reply.

From our side we are willing to discuss that since we want to find a solution for this. Unfortunately I can't answer on behalf of EM.

But if you send and email to support@viks.com with your story and also include that this was discussed with Linos on Casinomeister(so my colleagues know understands what is going on)
we will try and explain what happened so you at least get the most out of contacting us.

Please rewrite what happened from the beginning so I can present it to my manager and so on.

Once again I want to apologize for the issues you are experiencing.

I wish you a very good day and I am looking forward to your mail!

Sincerely VIKS.com
 
Actually I was reading about this in the UKGC guidelines. They actually state that the LICENSEE is responsible to enforce SE in their business and prevent ANY play wherever possible from SE players. So the inference there is that the sub-licensees/white labels are the responsibility of the actual licensee as I read it. But of course there are convenient interpretations by the licensee of this....:rolleyes:
 
just to square the circle, I sent the email requested to Linos who then sent me a reply quoting EM's T&Cs and saying it was nothing to do with them.

Which is what Viks support said to me originally, so I have no idea why he bothered. Total waste of time.

Unless you are 100% sure you have never closed an a/c with an EM Casino, I really wouldn't go anywhere near Viks or anywhere else. EM clearly see responsible gaming as a way to make more money rather than any sort of safeguard.
 
just to square the circle, I sent the email requested to Linos who then sent me a reply quoting EM's T&Cs and saying it was nothing to do with them.

Which is what Viks support said to me originally, so I have no idea why he bothered. Total waste of time.

Unless you are 100% sure you have never closed an a/c with an EM Casino, I really wouldn't go anywhere near Viks or anywhere else. EM clearly see responsible gaming as a way to make more money rather than any sort of safeguard.

Don't let Dunover 'hear' you say that :p

I do agree but as I said before I do feel for the casinos under this licence who are trying to make a legitimate go of things....
 
VIKS

just to square the circle, I sent the email requested to Linos who then sent me a reply quoting EM's T&Cs and saying it was nothing to do with them.

Which is what Viks support said to me originally, so I have no idea why he bothered. Total waste of time.

Unless you are 100% sure you have never closed an a/c with an EM Casino, I really wouldn't go anywhere near Viks or anywhere else. EM clearly see responsible gaming as a way to make more money rather than any sort of safeguard.

Hello again,

Thank you again for your post.

I did bother because it is important to me as well as for the company to at least try and investigate to the maximum. Of course since there are regulations and licences it's not the
easiest thing to just go in and make an exception, as you can imagine. I felt it was worth a try. That's why I puted in some time and made an effort. We are trying to be helpful from our side and that is our goal
towards every customer. I understand if you felt that the answer was the same, or the outcome at least but we operate under EM and we have to follow some guidelines and be cooperative.

We want once again to apologize that you were not satisfied with our reply. I want you to believe that we did everything we could both as humans and as a company to make things work.

We wish you all the best in the future.

Don't hesitate to contact us again.

Sincerely Linos Viks.
 
Hello again,

Thank you again for your post.

I did bother because it is important to me as well as for the company to at least try and investigate to the maximum. Of course since there are regulations and licences it's not the
easiest thing to just go in and make an exception, as you can imagine. I felt it was worth a try. That's why I puted in some time and made an effort. We are trying to be helpful from our side and that is our goal
towards every customer. I understand if you felt that the answer was the same, or the outcome at least but we operate under EM and we have to follow some guidelines and be cooperative.

We want once again to apologize that you were not satisfied with our reply. I want you to believe that we did everything we could both as humans and as a company to make things work.

We wish you all the best in the future.

Don't hesitate to contact us again.

Sincerely Linos Viks.

Maybe you should think of going somewhere else than EveryMatrix. There are other options where the people behind it act responsibly.

It's easy to implement a stop for self excluded people to join other sites. We saw that when Guts and co got into the same trouble. Within days they had a solution in place.
Or you all who are using EM should demand that they do the same. Can others then they can if they want to.
 
I dont like EM for a very different reason. Ilike Netent games but recently every EM casino have their Netent games removed in the lobby after I login. It doesnt happen for me at other non-EM casinos.
 
The thing is, most EM sites are actually good and pay quick. I should promote them but with a reminder in their wording that they are linked to each other. If it wasn't for the licensee EM not cross-referencing player information at sign-up there would be few if any issues with any of their casinos - that's what's so frustrating.
 

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