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Everymatrix should be rogued IMHO

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by The Blue Anchor, Mar 7, 2016.

    Mar 7, 2016
  1. The Blue Anchor

    The Blue Anchor Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    UK
    There have been a few threads on EM and their SE policy, so apologies for starting another one.

    I have been in conversation with them after accidentally opening an a/c with Viks casino when I didn't spot it was part of their network. I am SE'd from Jetbull and one other and I know the score so would not have joined deliberately.

    Anyway, I am not so worried about getting my deposits back - but more so about their whole lack of a joined up approach to self exclusion which appears to be a deliberate ploy to maximise income.

    I joined Viks with exactly the same user and personal details as the two I am excluded from - so why did they still let me join when a simple database script would have prevented it - and this is hardly a new issue.

    Since I pointed it out to them, they have sent me 3 different emails pointing to their T&Cs which specifically allow them to make no effort to weed out SE'd customers and then to keep their deposits and winnings.

    As I said, this is not about the deposits - but what seems to be a deliberate decision to allow SE'd customers to play until either they win or they stop playing - and then to block them and keep the funds.

    I should add the Viks themselves are not interested in discussing this, even though I presume they get to keep the lions share of the money. All they say is 'not our problem talk to EM'.

    Anyway, whether it will do any good, I am going to write to the regulator about this. (not to request my deposits back, but to make them aware of what I believe is deliberate flouting of the UKGC guidance on self exclusion for the purposes of making more money).
     
    12 people like this.
  2. Mar 7, 2016
  3. datshowiwoll

    datshowiwoll Experienced Member mm2

    Occupation:
    Equine PR
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I am not self excluded at any EM casino but have decided not to play at any of them again.
    How hard would it be to have a little note on the registration form asking players to confirm that they were not self excluded from any EM casino (including a list of them of course)
    Also I wonder how many peeps have lost at these joints blissfully unaware that they never stood a chance of cashing out - really bad form from EM

    Hope the regulator takes notice!
     
    3 people like this.
  4. Mar 7, 2016
  5. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    At risk of slipping into a state of torpor over this repetitive yet important issue, I agree. Again, I spoke to the UKGC at ICE and they have already had "an inordinate amount of complaints" over EM and are looking to address it. I will not promote any EM sites until this problem is resolved in a fair and clear manner, nor do I play at any. A solution is looooooong overdue....:rolleyes:
     
  6. Mar 7, 2016
  7. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    SE at EM a big problem - YES!

    Rogue all EM casinos, Unfair!

    What about the 'good guys' who do make an effort to run their operations professionally - Maybe a change like when Guts switched from EM to igamingcloud

    Casinos such as Next and Casino Luck are very well run IMO and don't deserve to be rogued.

    SE is a big issue and hopefully some one will sit up and take notice soon but it is also not the be all and end all of a casinos stature!
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Mar 7, 2016
  9. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Not rogue the casinos, personnel etc. but rogue EM - a big difference. Maybe if casinos were less likely to sign-up to the EM license or foresaw a whole lot of aggravation if they did, then EM would provide an adequate infrastructure to their clients - cross-referencing details on behalf of their clients would be a start....:)
     
    3 people like this.
  10. Mar 7, 2016
  11. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Apologies, mis-read it.

    Was slotting at the time, more proof that us blokes can't multi-task I know!

    Yes totally agree with the EM stance.

    Pity that good operations get cast under the same umbrella tho.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Mar 7, 2016
  13. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    I agree EveryMatrix are absolutely awful and should be brought to task about this.

    I also feel sorry for the good brands on EveryMatrix. Next casino, superlenny etc. These are good responsible operations in my opinion and they are falling under this umbrella. These casinos deserve to be accredited at casinomeister.

    However this Self Exclusion stunt at EM is really bad. Of course it is good for the casinos bottom line as they get to freeroll a load of gamblers.

    The thing that gets me the most is that they do of course have the technology to check a sign up if they want to. Its 2016 and databases are easily checked automatically. I wonder what happens if you try and sign up to an EM casino if you have had your account closed at another one for doing something bad? Lets say someone did a chargeback at one EM establishment and got banned then a few weeks later tried to sign up to another one. I would bet it is not allowed and it is policed on sign up not on withdrawal attempt.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Mar 7, 2016
  15. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Superlenny is under the Betit license like Kaboo and Thrills - it's time the UKGC updated their lists to reflect this.
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Mar 7, 2016
  17. Tirilej

    Tirilej On a Break

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    I think it has something to do with dataprotection. Each operator can not have access to any other casinos players. Some are verifying their players themselves and others are using EM's service. So computer freaks...is it possible for EM to really technically put in checks on each websites sign up pages?

    Maybe they can't so what is the only way to get rid of the problem?
    Each operator must verify everyone that signs up before they allow them to deposit. Players will also get information on why the verification needs to be done. Problem solved and remember that it only effect UK players.
    At least this is the only thing I can think about. On the other hand... Why haven't the operators already started to do it?
     
  18. Mar 7, 2016
  19. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Yes it is. All the casino needs to do is do the registration through the licensee, i.e. EM's database. This would be back end stuff, the player would not see it, and as for data protection, this would be within the individual licensee (EM) so would not breach data regs. as the individual casinos are in effect sub-licensees. Further proof can be seen with the UKGC's plans to have a centralized database of problem gamblers/SE players. This would actually go across ALL UKGC licensees, therefore if that's within DP ipso facto the sub-licensees can share data.

    You will also notice in T&C's there is a provision (see C*ss*va for example) which explains data can/will be shared for the purpose of duplicate accounts or excluded accounts.

    There is no lawful reason why EM can't do it.

    It's either expense, they can't be assed or they're creaming in as much revenue as they can before they are FORCED to do it.

    You'll find also for example RB/WB/Heypoker cross-reference, as do Grosvenor/Mecca under the same license. So it's clear most accredited sites already have adequate checks in the case of SE.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Mar 7, 2016
  21. Tirilej

    Tirilej On a Break

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    Redbet and the others are the same company as far as I know. Just different skins.

    EM would in your case also have to split UK customers from the rest of the world since we have different rules. Maybe it would be too complicated.
    We're just speculating as usual. I'm sure they must have thought of all things they can do. Especially since all casinos that are using their license dislike what is happening...at least most of them.

    I think that what I hate most of this whole mess is the fact that Every Matrix haven't been transparent about it. I've asked 10 times, no reply. I've been writing 300 post about it, and I don't think I know more now than when it started. I am more confused though:D

    So all casinos that don't want this to happen, why is this still happening?
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Mar 7, 2016
  23. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    Yep exactly, and this is the most important point.

    The way they do it just now is good (if unethical) for the casino/everymatrix's bottom line. They get to freeroll all these players.

    One has to question if that is part of the reason EM have not done anything about it despite this being an issue for months (years?).

    If there was a big issue that was costing EveryMatrix money every day how quickly do you think they would fix it?
     
    4 people like this.
  24. Mar 8, 2016
  25. RichyJ75

    RichyJ75 Silly Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dogsbody and personal servant to my kids
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I really can't see why there needs to be so many casinos under one licence/group as surely it creates too many problems? Can't they just concentrate on one flagship branded casino and be happy there? Would make self exclusion a lot easier and be a lot more transparent on the market.

    I dread to think how many brands there are under Cassava/888 .......

    Can't see why the market has to be so saturated with different casino names when they are just clones of each other in the same group with the same games.

    Bit like dating triplet girls - they all do the same, feel the same and look the same, but cost three times as much! And guaranteed if you exclude/upset one, the other two will freeze you out even though you had nothing against them!
     
    3 people like this.
  26. Mar 8, 2016
  27. Tirilej

    Tirilej On a Break

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    I'll just forget EveryMatrix exist from now on!
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2016
  28. Mar 24, 2016
  29. LinosVIKS

    LinosVIKS I-Gaming Industry Representative

    Occupation:
    Customer Support
    Location:
    Malta
    VIKS.com answer.

     
  30. Mar 29, 2016
  31. The Blue Anchor

    The Blue Anchor Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    UK
    As I said in my (unanswered) PM - nothing happened. EM just quoted their T&Cs and Viks refused to discuss it at all.
     
  32. Mar 30, 2016
  33. LinosVIKS

    LinosVIKS I-Gaming Industry Representative

    Occupation:
    Customer Support
    Location:
    Malta
    VIKS.com

    Hello hello,

    I hope you are good.

    I was on a short vacation, sorry for the late reply.

    From our side we are willing to discuss that since we want to find a solution for this. Unfortunately I can't answer on behalf of EM.

    But if you send and email to This email is not visible to you. with your story and also include that this was discussed with Linos on Casinomeister(so my colleagues know understands what is going on)
    we will try and explain what happened so you at least get the most out of contacting us.

    Please rewrite what happened from the beginning so I can present it to my manager and so on.

    Once again I want to apologize for the issues you are experiencing.

    I wish you a very good day and I am looking forward to your mail!

    Sincerely VIKS.com
     
    3 people like this.
  34. Mar 30, 2016
  35. The Blue Anchor

    The Blue Anchor Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    UK
    thanks Linos. Have done as you suggested.
     
  36. Mar 30, 2016
  37. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Actually I was reading about this in the UKGC guidelines. They actually state that the LICENSEE is responsible to enforce SE in their business and prevent ANY play wherever possible from SE players. So the inference there is that the sub-licensees/white labels are the responsibility of the actual licensee as I read it. But of course there are convenient interpretations by the licensee of this....:rolleyes:
     
  38. Mar 31, 2016
  39. The Blue Anchor

    The Blue Anchor Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    UK
    just to square the circle, I sent the email requested to Linos who then sent me a reply quoting EM's T&Cs and saying it was nothing to do with them.

    Which is what Viks support said to me originally, so I have no idea why he bothered. Total waste of time.

    Unless you are 100% sure you have never closed an a/c with an EM Casino, I really wouldn't go anywhere near Viks or anywhere else. EM clearly see responsible gaming as a way to make more money rather than any sort of safeguard.
     

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