Eurolinx, BetOnBet, and Linx Casino gone into liquidation!!!

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
It seems that the above assumption was right. Its over 2 months since they went belly up and no sign of any liquidators.

Does anyone know if theres been any progress with LGA (any former BetOnBet player)?

And I didnt keep my own word:oops: "Had" to reopen my 32Red account.

Had to quote myself. One affected player reported on 2+2 that he had contacted LGA multiple times and hasnt got a single reply.

I think I will contact "my" MEP next week and see if he can do anything about LGA (extremely unlikely but worth a try). They are even worse than Kahnawake. What a completely useless organization.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
It looks as if little has changed in Malta and the LGA despite the assurances of the new management earlier this year.

Perhaps they are alarmed at the size of the Eurolinx debacle.

How about triggering some local media action - say the Times of Malta or The Independent in Malta - to put some pressure on the LGA?

Complainants with a specific case should at the very least get the courtesy of an acknowledgement of their complaint - ignoring them is neither professional or acceptable imo.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
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Location
Bierland
Malta.....lip service, that's all you'll get - when they actually respond to you.

Major disappointment these people. They ought to lose their licensing abilities for being so non-player focused.

This is from last year's awards. Biggest Disappointment of 2008:
https://www.casinomeister.com/static/bestworst2008.php

...So what does this indicate? Well hopefully not that the LGA is just another rubber stamp licensing agency primarily set up to shelter the casino operators from massive taxes. In order to have a driver's license, you have to know how to drive. And if you screw up bad enough the license is taken away. The reason why we have licenses is to protect the pedestrians and other drivers from getting smashed into or run over. This should be no different in the gaming industry - the license is to ensure player safety.

I have another issue with them from one of our members. The LGA reps at the EIG told me that they were aware of this player's problem and were dealing with it. The player hasn't heard diddly squat. What a crock of doo doo.

Looks like a repeat award this year :rolleyes:

As for MGS getting massive percentages from operators, I don't think this is true with the poker rooms. I spoke to their CEO at the EIG about this, and he told me the percentage from Poker rooms is miniscule. In fact the operator owes them money - they're looking for him as well. He also said that they had done their due diligence with background checks on this guy Jo Remme.

But no-one is exempt from being fooled, right? Remember last year when this guy (Jo Remme) lied to me? This was a very public player issue - spread all over 2+2 and here. Eurolinx was yanked off the site because of this...yet people kept playing.

Caveat emptor - or a fool and his money are soon parted...

I'll check with MGS on what their position is on this. I'm not sure if they are dealing with this or what.
 

deucebag

Full Member
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In fact the operator owes them money - they're looking for him as well. He also said that they had done their due diligence with background checks on this guy Jo Remme.

Remme had a history of fraud and embezzlement from running La Isla Bonita Casino with a pyramid scheme on the side. If they were OK with that they need to raise their standards.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
AFAIK there have been no further press releases from Microgaming to augment the ones already up on its website, which indicated that like the players MGS was awaiting the appointment of liquidators.
 

JHV

<a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar
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Location
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Chipdumping isnt that easy, if you dont wanna get caught. The player I mentioned did it over a period of two weeks, and he played pretty much his normal limits. Altough if you were caught it was definitely an EV+ situation to at least try.

And MG surely was watching the action at tables more carefully, they must have been aware that players were desperate.

The funds arent actually immediately withdrawable, at least not at Ladbrokes. Edit: Someone who knows better could comment.

Its interesting what you mentioned if in future there would be, lets say GENUINE processing problems. How would players act? Altough I dont see why anyone would still play at MG network.

One site was most likely quite close to bust recently (at least they were bleeding heavily), they recently changed ownership. But what I know they would have had the players money ringfenced.

People with more knowledge than I are covering the other issues pretty effectively so I'll just focus on VWM's point, which is extremely valid and one I genuinely hadn't considered until now - and very interested in understanding how MG or any network really deals with this issue.

Because...I'm a professional poker player and I can tell you that dumping huge amounts is incredibly easy for online pros. I could do it my sleep..in a manner that could have 20 experts watching the action aware I'm doing it and be helpless to do anything. For online pros, it's really just very basic and simple stuff.

And...I know players who dumped huge amounts from their Eurolinx accounts as the situation developed from Abnormal to Concerning to Potential Collapse to Liquidation. And I had no ethical problem with them doing so - but none of us had this issue in mind, which is a bit embarrassing I guess.

But surely there is some sort of reconciliation periodically and if there is a shortfall, MG must be forced to make it up - and I suspect they're doing this for these large abnormalities in reconciliation very quietly. Surely?

If not, you're going to see a domino-effect of collapses across the Prima network. And no way are some of the major skins foolish enough not to have considered this issue - so it has to be all guaranteed by MG somehow?
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
Malta.....lip service, that's all you'll get - when they actually respond to you.

Major disappointment these people. They ought to lose their licensing abilities for being so non-player focused.

This is from last year's awards. Biggest Disappointment of 2008:
https://www.casinomeister.com/static/bestworst2008.php



I have another issue with them from one of our members. The LGA reps at the EIG told me that they were aware of this player's problem and were dealing with it. The player hasn't heard diddly squat. What a crock of doo doo.

Looks like a repeat award this year :rolleyes:

As for MGS getting massive percentages from operators, I don't think this is true with the poker rooms. I spoke to their CEO at the EIG about this, and he told me the percentage from Poker rooms is miniscule. In fact the operator owes them money - they're looking for him as well. He also said that they had done their due diligence with background checks on this guy Jo Remme.

But no-one is exempt from being fooled, right? Remember last year when this guy (Jo Remme) lied to me? This was a very public player issue - spread all over 2+2 and here. Eurolinx was yanked off the site because of this...yet people kept playing.

Caveat emptor - or a fool and his money are soon parted...

I'll check with MGS on what their position is on this. I'm not sure if they are dealing with this or what.

MG takes 17% from the gross rake. So if the operator owns them money its peanuts to what they generated in rake from EL/BOB over the years. They were quite big skins. And their due diligence:oops:

Correct about warning signals last year. Sadly many newer poker players dont know about this site. Also according to Marc"myst"Karam it was a few months after that the problems started. But there were many players on BoB that didnt have a clue about it. Most Finnish players were BoB players as was durrr. And BoB was bought by Eurolinx early this year.

Their problems started a while after the TUSK scandal. And that already should have been enough of a warning signal to withdraw any funds from a non PLC MG room. Sadly there were many players that hadnt even heard of it (TUSK), of course it wasnt in the big RB affiliates interest to give it much space.

Edit: adding about chipdumping. Its can be easy if your roll is about 15-25 buyins. But to dump a +50 buyin roll isnt that easy. Not to talk about donkament players.
 

Casinomeister

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Location
Bierland
...Correct about warning signals last year. Sadly many newer poker players dont know about this site. Also according to Marc"myst"Karam it was a few months after that the problems started. But there were many players on BoB that didnt have a clue about it...
I can buy the fact that not everyone knows about Casinomeister - but most everyone has heard of Google. Search "eurolinx problems" and the thread pops up detailing their removal at #2. This was the same result prior to their fuck-up. :rolleyes:

I find it hard to sympathize with seasoned players who ignore the warnings that are a Google search away, and then are shocked when a company goes tits up. People need to exercise a little more discretion when it comes to choosing poker rooms etc.

But that's a little off topic - don't need to go there.
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
I can buy the fact that not everyone knows about Casinomeister - but most everyone has heard of Google. Search "eurolinx problems" and the thread pops up detailing their removal at #2. This was the same result prior to their fuck-up. :rolleyes:

I find it hard to sympathize with seasoned players who ignore the warnings that are a Google search away, and then are shocked when a company goes tits up. People need to exercise a little more discretion when it comes to choosing poker rooms etc.

But that's a little off topic - don't need to go there.

But that was pretty much the only screw up that reached daylight. And the player in that case did quite much to stirr it up etc. He was banned at 2+2 for example.
Cashouts were processed fast and their support always was good, the best actually. And if everything runs smoothly its unlikely that you would google them for problems. I have never done it.
And in 2008 many highstake players succesfully cashed out their rolls after the big games on MG dried up. Several players with rolls of 500k+ (hearsay about the sizes of rolls).
 

JHV

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Joined
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And in 2008 many highstake players succesfully cashed out their rolls after the big games on MG dried up. Several players with rolls of 500k+ (hearsay about the sizes of rolls).

If you're getting your info from the main poker forums you have to realise there is literally SO much dribble about rolls there it's hard to believe a fraction of what they claim is true. I stopped posting on 2+2 and some of the other larger forums because I got tired of seeing players claim things I could easily disprove - and I didn't want to just be a "Truth Policeman" with all those retarded egos who would either sit out when I sat or who didn't even play the stakes they claimed.

But I will concur with you to Bryan that Eurolinx's reputation (right up until a month or so before disaster) was still viewed by most poker players in a positive light - I'm not sure when exactly it clicked for me that it was "game over" but I'd be lying if I claimed it was 2-3 months before the fact...even though problems starting showing up > 4 months (?) before they capitulated.

The poker community has a lot to answer for in this regard. I seriously don't know what's with players who don't make things like this public, but I had close friends in the final fortnight when it was 100% Titanic panic-Skype me saying they had 5 figure amounts pending for months?!!? And that Eurolinx wasn't reversing their w/d requests so they couldn't dump. After I ridiculed them, I helped a couple with some cheeky tricks which worked (if small remaining balance, dump it on high HA casino sidegames, then ask w/d reversed etc :)). If I had a pending withdrawal > (such a short time for poker - a week max or less for processors), I would have pretty much covered forums with that news. I never understand why people stay quiet about these things.

(As for dumping, yes ofc 50+ buyins is trickier - still easy if you know what you're doing. And if you're a tourney player with a huge roll on there, unless they hit big scores towards the end, all I'd say is...Why? You don't need 50k to play tournaments on *any* site, regardless of volume.)
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
If you're getting your info from the main poker forums you have to realise there is literally SO much dribble about rolls there it's hard to believe a fraction of what they claim is true. I stopped posting on 2+2 and some of the other larger forums because I got tired of seeing players claim things I could easily disprove - and I didn't want to just be a "Truth Policeman" with all those retarded egos who would either sit out when I sat or who didn't even play the stakes they claimed.

But I will concur with you to Bryan that Eurolinx's reputation (right up until a month or so before disaster) was still viewed by most poker players in a positive light - I'm not sure when exactly it clicked for me that it was "game over" but I'd be lying if I claimed it was 2-3 months before the fact...even though problems starting showing up > 4 months (?) before they capitulated.

The poker community has a lot to answer for in this regard. I seriously don't know what's with players who don't make things like this public, but I had close friends in the final fortnight when it was 100% Titanic panic-Skype me saying they had 5 figure amounts pending for months?!!? And that Eurolinx wasn't reversing their w/d requests so they couldn't dump. After I ridiculed them, I helped a couple with some cheeky tricks which worked (if small remaining balance, dump it on high HA casino sidegames, then ask w/d reversed etc :)). If I had a pending withdrawal > (such a short time for poker - a week max or less for processors), I would have pretty much covered forums with that news. I never understand why people stay quiet about these things.

(As for dumping, yes ofc 50+ buyins is trickier - still easy if you know what you're doing. And if you're a tourney player with a huge roll on there, unless they hit big scores towards the end, all I'd say is...Why? You don't need 50k to play tournaments on *any* site, regardless of volume.)

That info is from Marc Karams post. There used to be nosebleed games at MG, up to 200/400. So I dont see any reason why it wouldnt be true.
 

JHV

<a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar
Joined
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That info is from Marc Karams post. There used to be nosebleed games at MG, up to 200/400. So I dont see any reason why it wouldnt be true.

I dunno who that is but I think I misunderstood you anyway, sorry! :oops: We're both in agreeance that Eurolinx's reputation (for whatever incorrect reasons) was exceptionally solid amongst the poker industry right up until very near to collapse. And I agree with you that it'd be rare for a poker player to Google for problems when the room's reputation is solid and their business practices seem very slick (both true for Eurolinx).

My tiny rant there about the nonsense on the major forums was due to the fact that the good posters on those forums are just dwarfed by lying idiots - and that there is a culture of lying for ego-based reasons that stretches right up to some of the 'name' posters and mods - they're mostly just terrible forums across the board and very little information pulled from there has any value unless it can be verified.

Bryan is 100% right though regarding human nature. Look at how many players have flooded back to AP / UB - I got amounts on CEREUS that are ridiculous considering the debauchery and scandal-filled past. And I've reloaded big amounts on Prima skins post-TUSK post-Eurolinx. You could argue (almost fairly) that those of us who get burned in situations involving these two in particular...almost have it coming. However, to counter, if you didn't fund any room which had a shady past or history of unethical behaviour - you'd have to pretty much scratch most of them. For years, I refused to play above 2/4 fixed as I was 100% certain the sites would rig the big games. I was left behind for years until 06, when I realised I'd been wrong and went robusto. But...I played 200,000 hands of SS Fixed at AP in 04/05 - had I gone up in limits, huge chance I find myself a busted victim just as I suspected (although I thought EVERY site would have stuff like that going on - and they all might, and anyone that argues otherwise is very naive).

It's just so hard when you're trying to juggle the realities of an industry that's so shady across such a large portion of the board. You find yourself *wanting* to believe certain comforting things, when the dark reality is that history for most sites are shady and filled with "um?" incidents.
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
This was posted last week by a BOB player at pokerisivut.

Reference is made to your official complaint to the LGA re Alpine Malta Ltd (BetOnBet.com).
This e-mail is to update you on the status of the investigation proceedings into the Alpine Malta Ltd. (BetOnBet.com).
The Authority has concluded the investigation into Alpine Malta Ltd. (BetOnBet.com) casino and poker licenses based in Malta.

The Authorities investigation findings have been transferred to the Malta Police who are now proceeding with an investigation into Alpine Malta Ltd (BetOnBet.com).

At this stage the Authority is awaiting the Malta Police to conclude and advise the outcome of their investigation process which will then be made public and you will be notified accordingly.


Regards
Frances Blenheim


Dont know how much about the Malta Economic Crimes Unit, but according to what I have heard about Malta and "dirty money" you have to wonder if it even exists.

So I guess Jo Remme is laughing all the way to the bank.
 

biggambler567

Dormant account
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Aug 16, 2007
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Possible another casino

Hi folks after this whole fiasco, there is another microgaming operator i have been watching foa a few months now, both players and affiliates are having to wait weeks to receiver withdrawals/commission payouts, the rep is listen on this forum and has apprently stopped responding to players emails, i will name the operator because i dont want anyone to be scammed again, it is nedplay, so if you play at this casino be very careful and expect a delay in weeks for withdrawals to be processed, something at this casino is not right, but i will continue to monitor check the casino rep page on this forum and you will see a number of cases where players are still waiting for withdrawals from in october, something is definetly wrong!!!!1
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi folks after this whole fiasco, there is another microgaming operator i have been watching foa a few months now, both players and affiliates are having to wait weeks to receiver withdrawals/commission payouts, the rep is listen on this forum and has apprently stopped responding to players emails, i will name the operator because i dont want anyone to be scammed again, it is nedplay, so if you play at this casino be very careful and expect a delay in weeks for withdrawals to be processed, something at this casino is not right, but i will continue to monitor check the casino rep page on this forum and you will see a number of cases where players are still waiting for withdrawals from in october, something is definetly wrong!!!!1

I would advise you persuade these players to come here and issue PABs against Nedplay. This will get the ball rolling, and give Max some concrete claims to pursue, rather than forum posts and opinions.

Nedplay should have a timetable for players to receive their withdrawals, and 2 weeks+ seems excessive. Players who have waited more than 3 weeks certainly have a damn good case for unreasonable delay, and they should submit PABs.
If these PABs show something isn't right with Nedplay, Max will issue an appropriate warning, and they will be suspended from the accredited section until they get their act together.

Many Nedplay issues discussed here seem to be down to incompetence and lack of staff for the number of players who have joined. If the rep or their CS are not responding to issues raised, this seems an escalation of the problem, since the rep did post here and asked players to contact him directly by PM, and he would get to the bottom of these issues.

Affiliates can also PAB against their program for non-payment it seems, mentioned in an earlier thread.

Sadly, given the lack of concern MGS have shown in both the TUSK and Eurolinx Microgaming failures, it is no suprise that players and affiliates fear the issues now affecting them at Nedplay are a rerun of the former two. Given that there is NO-ONE to step in to guarantee player and affiliate monies in casino and affiliate accounts in the event of failure, their fear in this respect is very real.
 

biggambler567

Dormant account
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Aug 16, 2007
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Issue

Well I have submitted a PAB and also have sent the rep of the casino a few messages a little over a week now and have not gotten a response, i know the rep at least saw one of my messages because i sent him a pm and i got a notice that the message was opened, so what does that say? I will wait for max to respond to my PAB before i make any further comments on this matter, but it is quite strange that when i call support, i always get the voicemail, i can never get through to live support and well my emails has been gone unanswered for weeks, so we will se where all this goes....
 

vinylweatherman

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United Kingdom
Well I have submitted a PAB and also have sent the rep of the casino a few messages a little over a week now and have not gotten a response, i know the rep at least saw one of my messages because i sent him a pm and i got a notice that the message was opened, so what does that say? I will wait for max to respond to my PAB before i make any further comments on this matter, but it is quite strange that when i call support, i always get the voicemail, i can never get through to live support and well my emails has been gone unanswered for weeks, so we will se where all this goes....

This is the issue that has been discussed. The rep admitted that there were not enough staff to cope, and more were being recruited. The problem means that if something goes wrong, it is compounded by support simply not dealing with the query for weeks at a time, making a simple matter a 4 week delay in receiving a bonus, or getting a withdrawal request through the system.
First withdrawals are a problem because documents have to be requested, and sent for review, and lack of support staff means there are long gaps between each stage of the process.

The rep reading a PM, and deciding not to reply straight away makes it look like he is ignoring the issue. It may be that he reads the message, and intends to reply after investigating the issue. Unfortunately, unless he says this is what he is doing in a brief reply, how is the player suposed to know they are not just being ignored again.
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
This is the issue that has been discussed. The rep admitted that there were not enough staff to cope, and more were being recruited. The problem means that if something goes wrong, it is compounded by support simply not dealing with the query for weeks at a time, making a simple matter a 4 week delay in receiving a bonus, or getting a withdrawal request through the system.
First withdrawals are a problem because documents have to be requested, and sent for review, and lack of support staff means there are long gaps between each stage of the process.

The rep reading a PM, and deciding not to reply straight away makes it look like he is ignoring the issue. It may be that he reads the message, and intends to reply after investigating the issue. Unfortunately, unless he says this is what he is doing in a brief reply, how is the player suposed to know they are not just being ignored again.

Doesnt explain multiple complaints of cashouts taking over a month. Seriously one person can take care of cashouts as they arent instant. Years ago at a place where I worked I paid about 100 invoices/day and it took max one hour, and the software was quite slow. So thats an excuse that I dont buy, maybe for support but not cashouts in general. Okay the cashouts have to be approved but so does invoices.
 

vinylweatherman

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Location
United Kingdom
Doesnt explain multiple complaints of cashouts taking over a month. Seriously one person can take care of cashouts as they arent instant. Years ago at a place where I worked I paid about 100 invoices/day and it took max one hour, and the software was quite slow. So thats an excuse that I dont buy, maybe for support but not cashouts in general. Okay the cashouts have to be approved but so does invoices.

I said it was what the rep ADMITTED, though it certainly seems this is NOT the whole story by far.
 

biggambler567

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
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Trinidad
Neplay

I tottaly agree, i for some reason am starting to think that they are going to be just like linx,eurolink and betonbet casino and rip off players and affiliates sooner or later!!!:mad:
 
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