Error in Dark Knight Rises -slot freespin pays/paytable/help-file.

akrus88

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Location
Finland
Hello all!

As some of you remember, this slot have had some problems straight from the start. When launched you could have bet small to collect freespins and then trigger the freespins with a higher bet.

Well that problem was fixed by introducing average bet size to the slot.
This is a straight quote from the slots help-file: "The weighted average bet is calculated from the bets placed on spins that activated the Fight Mode feature where you were awarded additional free spins and multiplier values."

Well.. The slot does not work like that exactly.

Fight modes triggered:
4.5€+3€+4.5€+1.2€ (+1.2€(feature trigger which should not affect the average bet during feature)).
So my average bet size should be (4.5+3+4.5+1.2)€ / 4 = 3.3€.

But, here you go with my wins from the feature
wins:
5Q: 7,19€
2scatter: 1,73€
4K: 1,15€
3K: 0,46€
3Q: 0,29€
3women: 0.86€
3A: 0.46€

So instead of that 3.3€ my bet size was 1.73€.

I actually tried asking from Guts and 32Red about this issue, but the answer I got was that bet size is calculated
like I did before: (4.5+3+4.5+1.2)€ / 4 = 3.3€.

In case someone have not noticed this, thought to inform fellow players about this.
Also, it would be absolutely smacking to actually get a right help file for the game!
 

zap987

Meister Member
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Haven't played this slot for quite a while since I find it boring but from what I remember, the chance to trigger fight mode is a lot higher at the start, you will pretty much always hit one in the first 10 spins after free spins. Then the more fights you hit the smaller the chance to get more in some way, so I'd imagine there is some weighting to the bets to avoid someone betting huge for the 'easy' fight modes then lowering bet. Still should be in the help file of course but would be surprised if the math doesn't work out to be fair in the end.
 

KasinoKing

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So instead of that 3.3€ my bet size was 1.73€.
If what you say is true, then players are only getting a little over 50% of what they should during the feature - and this would have a MASSIVE effect on the overall RTP.

This needs to be investigated further (any volunteers?) and if verified, taken to the highest level ASAP as players will be collectively many $1,000's out of pocket. :(

KK
 

paul7388

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glasgow scotland
you listed the size of bets you were playing but you never listed how many spins you played at each size of bet before triggering the free spins as if you played more spins at a lower stake then free spins will pay less as the average will be worked out from every spin played not just the fight modes, I know it says its just the bets that trigger the fight modes but probably find it takes average of all bets like tomb raider secret of the sword
 

maphesto

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Jun 5, 2009
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Sweden
you listed the size of bets you were playing but you never listed how many spins you played at each size of bet before triggering the free spins as if you played more spins at a lower stake then free spins will pay less as the average will be worked out from every spin played not just the fight modes, I know it says its just the bets that trigger the fight modes but probably find it takes average of all bets like tomb raider secret of the sword

This is probably the correct theory. It's quite strange that it seems to be harder to trigger fight mode the longer you play...
 

lotusch

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Jun 3, 2013
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Dún Dealgan
I played it only before they "fixed" the slot and I found it an extremely hard to win big slot.
Finally I hit a big win close to 1000x bet and after that I left the slot for what it is and haven't played it anymore.
All this hocus pocus with weighted bets and stuff made me think it would even be harder to get a decent win on this thing. :cool:
And besides,it is kind of a boring slot too. :oops:
 

zreb

Experienced Member
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Sep 21, 2013
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currently in US
When I had played this slot previously I also thought that the average bet that was used for the feature was significantly lower than I expected it to be. Even if we include the 1.2 euro feature in the average for the example you provided, the number would still be very far from how the slot is stated to work.

It's possible that some more complex weighting system is used, or even something like paul said above where it could be weighted based on total spins rather than features.

Based on how the slot works, it seems like there isn't really any truly fair way to compute this average. If it were weighted purely based on something like spins or feature activations, someone could raise their bets in the case they had some good early fight rounds - for example, if they hit a multiplier increase or two. This would raise the player's RTP over the default (though by how much, I don't know), and I don't really see any good way around it. (It might be possible to make some extremely convoluted alterations to the fight frequency to balance it out, but I doubt it.)

I'm worried that, to combat this possibility, Microgaming may have overcompensated for this problem, and instituted a solution that makes sure that makes sure that the average is weighted towards the lower end, or computes the average in a few different ways and takes the lowest of the averages computed. While that may sound a bit tin-foil-hatty, considering how MG screwed up with the slot in the first place, I wouldn't put the possibility out of mind.

Ideally we could get some sort of word from MG or someone who can get an answer out of them about how this "average" is really computed, since in the best case scenario the help file is misleading, and in the worst, players aren't getting a fair game.

In the meanwhile, if anyone's got some money to burn, I'm sure some of these theories could be tested further (whether it confirms to a weighting per spin or any other method.)
 

KasinoKing

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It's very easy to check actually - just play on the same bet level from start to triggering the feature.
Whichever way they calculate it, the average bet size will be constant and so the free-spins should be at the same level used.
If the free-spin are played at anything less than the amount bet - there is DEFINITELY something wrong.
I don't have time to test it right now, but will later if no-one else beats me to it.

KK
 

Wild Reels

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the only error i can see if that the help file is very badly worded, in that it takes the cumulative spins made to calculate the "average" free spin stake, rather than the individual stakes that triggered the fight feature, the fight feature is supposed to be triggered randomly, but in my time playing it it also seems to be appearing more frequently early until each feature reaches around 30 spins, and only then would i expect to see a multiplier pop up in the fight round.

unless someone posts a 15 spins and 5x bonus round :p
 

Greigssy

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Aug 13, 2010
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Scotland
I played this slot early when it was released and once again this year and I've had 3 very similar sessions and outcomes.

This was on minimum bet.The first 100 spins I got lots of fight scenes,lots of free spins a few multipliers my balance held steady.Then the slot went on a long dead spell for 800 spins my rtp dropped below 50% and I got one or two extra fight scenes hundreds of spins apart.

When the bonus triggered it paid over 300xbet but never higher than my actual losses.
 

ChillBill

Banned User - Aussiedave in disguise
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Oct 16, 2012
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Australia
Almost sounds like MG have put some sort of compensation mechanism in there.

I wont deny MGS is my favourite software. Sure I've had some horrid back to back, month in month out sessions. But I've had multiple times when I'm about to bust and within 15 or minutes, I'm staring at a balance of many thousands of dollars. Though there are some issue which have not be fixed, even though I've complained about these with the casinos many times. One is the carry over bonus, when it's been zeroed out in a previous session and then a phantom play through attaches itself to a current bonus.

And then there are the scripts which fail to load or break for some reason and subsequently popup when I 1'st login, asking, if I want to run them or not. How the hell do I know!

With these issues still present, it doesn't surprise me there could be or maybe are other issues a foot, which I've not experienced, yet :D
 

akrus88

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Aug 6, 2012
Location
Finland
the only error i can see if that the help file is very badly worded, in that it takes the cumulative spins made to calculate the "average" free spin stake, rather than the individual stakes that triggered the fight feature, the fight feature is supposed to be triggered randomly, but in my time playing it it also seems to be appearing more frequently early until each feature reaches around 30 spins, and only then would i expect to see a multiplier pop up in the fight round.

unless someone posts a 15 spins and 5x bonus round :p

Actually it does take only the fight mode trigger and feature trigger when counting the average bet.

The big problem is, that in the help file it says that only the fight mode triggers affects the average bet.

Another problem is, that it does not say average bet is calculated by a weighted average bet. In a way that earlier trigger affects less and later triggers more. Actually I think the feature trigger affects the most.

I did a calculation from an earlier run, where I had one fight mode with a 0,3€ and straight after that a feature trigger with a 0,6€ bet.
On that round my average bet size was 0,54€.
So it is about like this: first trigger counts for 3 and feature trigger counts for 10 : ( 0,3x3 + 0,6x10 ) / 13 = 0,53.. (0,3x2 + 0,6x10) / 12 = 0,55.

I think the calculation is fair from RTP point of view, but the problem is that player thinks (because of the help file)
"oh, I had 3 triggers with 6€ bet and then a feature trigger with 0,3€ bet, so bet size is 6€".
But in fact the bet size will be around 1€...

BADLY DESIGNED SLOT!!!!!
 

Dagobert

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What character do you guys chose for extra wild?

I always chose the girl without eye band:)
 
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