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Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by kengam, Jun 7, 2006.


Is English Harbour guilty of cheating on double up?

  1. I am satisfied with their defense...only a bug

    5 vote(s)
  2. Cheated in April and most likely cheated before

    40 vote(s)
  3. Only cheated once, but was caught

    4 vote(s)
  4. still unsure

    13 vote(s)
    Jun 7, 2006
  1. kengam

    kengam Dormant account

    since there is no more information to ponder, I think it is time for a new poll.
  2. Jun 7, 2006
  3. elscrabinda

    elscrabinda Experienced Member PABnorogue PABnoaccred

    I voted 'not sure' because thats the only realistic option in my eyes. Whats more important is "would you ever want to play there again?"

    There's parallels with this and my dear leader Tony Blair taking us into a war on a false pretext. Either he's a evil manipulative liar or he's too stupid to have known better. either way he shouldn't be running the country. Ditto with EH. Either they are out and out cheats with a proven track record of cheating and likely to offend again or their software and/or management is not up to the job of operating a casino. Either way any confidence placed in them is misplaced in my opinion
  4. Jun 7, 2006
  5. Aindreas_Daoc

    Aindreas_Daoc Dormant account

    I think I'll echo elscrabinda. I don't know if there was cheating or just an honest mistake. Either way, it was a bad.

    However, there are literally more casinos online than I could possibly ever download, so there is really no reason for me to play at one I am suspicious of.
  6. Jun 7, 2006
  7. TheBloke

    TheBloke Dormant account

    Database programmer
    Yeah, these options are not appropriate and require the participant to make a guess based on partial information.

    The appropriate question is the one asked in the original, surpressed, poll - "Would you play at EH again?"

    My answer to that question is, obviously, no. That answer would not change regardless of whether it was a genuine mistake or a deliberate cheat - either way I would never trust them again.

    I'd suggest you kill this and recreate the original poll.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2006
  8. Jun 7, 2006
  9. kengam

    kengam Dormant account

    Can't we assume that anyone answering b or c would never play at English Harbour? I am trying to establish players' thoughts on if it was accidental and if it had happened before.
  10. Jun 7, 2006
  11. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    I hate to see another poll go down the drain. But if folks don't see the option they want, it is not going to give a good representation of how they feel.

    Everyone's opinion is valid, with or without more information.

    How about people suggest what answers they would like to see for the question: Would you play at EH?

    Here are a few possible answers to include:
    1. Yes. It is a good reputable casino and/or Spearmaster's analysis was convincing.
    2. No, they cheated
    3. No, they have inadequate controls.
    4. No, unless they provided the information needed
    5. I don't know. Maybe with a great bonus.
  12. Jun 7, 2006
  13. TheBloke

    TheBloke Dormant account

    Database programmer
    Yeah I like these options - suitably granular, and it would be interesting to know the reasons rather than a yes or no.

    In order to ensure all bases are covered, I would expand it thus:

    Question: Would you play at EH again?
    1. Yes - they made a genuine mistake and have dealt with it correclty
    2. Yes - they didn't deal with it correctly but I dont think it will be repeated
    3. Yes - I don't care/have no opinion, I'll play anyway
    4. No - they cheated
    5. No - they have inadequate controls/testing
    6. No - unless they provide past logs
    7. Undecided

    Too granular? Maybe, but I dont think it'd stop people voting and we'd see exactly how people feel.
  14. Jun 7, 2006
  15. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Web Dev.
    The mere fact that people would even care to vote would be to reflect their opinions on the "non-random results" case thus it will be an overwhelming "no" vote, so why the need for a poll at all?

    And in this poll, you'll also find about half the posters thinking they "cheated" and the other half saying "not sure" because we don't know, and never will, whether it was intended. So that should save some time :)

    I do think that the case should be kept in the public eye, if only because it was accepted that the software served up non-random results and people need to be aware of that so they can form their own opinions. But the need for even more threads seems pointless as does the need to have verified what we already know with a poll on the subject. It's already pretty much guaranteed a place in folklore here and elsewhere and will no doubt win some awards when the year comes to a close :D
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2006
  16. Jun 7, 2006
  17. kengam

    kengam Dormant account

    put up another poll if you guys want. This one suits my purpose. It doesn't look like anyone trusts this outfit's excuse. Well they do have one vote of trust. Gee I wonder who that was. So far the results are overwhelming.
  18. Jun 7, 2006
  19. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Devil's Advocate
    Your insinuation is not appreciated - furthermore, I am not voting in this poll because it makes no sense. It is clear this is your agenda - you have stated that it serves YOUR purpose.

    It ought to be patently clear now who has agendas and who doesn't.
  20. Jun 7, 2006
  21. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    What about the option "It is quite possibly a mistake, but I am not satisfied with their response"?
  22. Jun 7, 2006
  23. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Devil's Advocate
    LOL. Here's your answer:

    In other words, your option wouldn't suit his purpose.
  24. Jun 8, 2006
  25. kengam

    kengam Dormant account

    That option is fine. In fact the other question suggestions are also fine. I do not know how to edit my poll. "my purpose" is merely to establish whether I am the only one who believes that they have cheated before. One other poster and I seem to be the vocal ones who think they have been cheated in the past.

    I have no agenda except to expose these cheats. I am out a bunch of money. I am sorry you do not have much support in your conclusion Spearmaster, but people have a genuine mistrust in casinos in general. When one is caught cheating by mathematical probabilities then it only fuels further mistrust. If the original poster emailed English Harbour in the beginning and never started a thread which caused such an uproar, do you honestly think the casino would have researched and fixed the problem? Hell no. He would have received the canned bullshit response that they tried to give us publicly when this was brought to their attention.

    I find it disgusting the way they have handled the entire situation. They could have at least published their logs from years past. They have refused to send me my own logs let alone the complete logs of the double up game. What does that tell you? I know what it tells me.

    While I appreciate your time and interest in this important matter, I do not think you have helped the gaming public out at all with this one. You defended them into silence. You spoke for them when you shouldn't have. You have a great track record and have helped many people out in the past, but you clearly screwed us out of finding out the truth in this one.
  26. Jun 8, 2006
  27. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Did they refuse or just ignore your request?
  28. Jun 8, 2006
  29. kengam

    kengam Dormant account

    I guess I should have said ignored my request
  30. Jun 9, 2006
  31. mitch

    mitch Dormant account


    I must admit I have had an issue with your fairly constant questioning of Spears integrity, not acceptable IMO unless you can post evidence rather than speculation.

    I have no probs with your questioning of EH and Oddson integrity as there is evidence out there.

    I am glad you have followed up on my earlier suggestion of asking EH for your logs as I think the level of your past play would settle the issue of a previous cheating game.

    If EH do refuse to release your logs then it is game over as far as I am concerned on the question of deliberate cheating by this group unless they can provide cast iron proof on why they are unable to do so.

    Please keep us posted on your attempts to get your logs.

  32. Jun 9, 2006
  33. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Casino apologist
    64% in support of the "cheated now and quite possibly cheated before" option????

    Damn, who'd o' thunk it?? :lolup::lolup:

    Come on, hands up the 8% (4) of you who believe it was an accidental "bug". Name 'n shame. :)
  34. Jun 9, 2006
  35. henryVIII

    henryVIII Dormant account

    I was thinking just that. How can four people, after all we have read, believe it was an innocent mistake.

    1 person likes this.
  36. Jun 9, 2006
  37. erp1

    erp1 Dormant account

    I agree with those that argue that the present poll is not very well thought out.

    I think a poll with the following options in a more reasonable way would represent the different opinions.

    What is your general impression of English Harbour casino?

    1. Can still be trusted although they made a seriously bad mistake
    2. Not recommended
    3. Rogue, unethical business practice
    4. Rogue, reported cheating software
  38. Jun 9, 2006
  39. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred


    Aww, come on Caruso. This is a poll and those who take part can choose any option they like. Otherwise, who would dare take part in these again if they knew they would be chided over their choice.

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