ENGLISH HARBOUR POLL

Is English Harbour guilty of cheating on double up?

  • I am satisfied with their defense...only a bug

    Votes: 5 8.1%
  • Cheated in April and most likely cheated before

    Votes: 40 64.5%
  • Only cheated once, but was caught

    Votes: 4 6.5%
  • still unsure

    Votes: 13 21.0%

  • Total voters
    62

kengam

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
since there is no more information to ponder, I think it is time for a new poll.
 

elscrabinda

Full Member
PABnoaccred
PABnorogue
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Oxford
I voted 'not sure' because thats the only realistic option in my eyes. Whats more important is "would you ever want to play there again?"

There's parallels with this and my dear leader Tony Blair taking us into a war on a false pretext. Either he's a evil manipulative liar or he's too stupid to have known better. either way he shouldn't be running the country. Ditto with EH. Either they are out and out cheats with a proven track record of cheating and likely to offend again or their software and/or management is not up to the job of operating a casino. Either way any confidence placed in them is misplaced in my opinion
 

Aindreas_Daoc

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 16, 2004
Location
USA
I think I'll echo elscrabinda. I don't know if there was cheating or just an honest mistake. Either way, it was a bad.

However, there are literally more casinos online than I could possibly ever download, so there is really no reason for me to play at one I am suspicious of.
 

TheBloke

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Location
London
Yeah, these options are not appropriate and require the participant to make a guess based on partial information.

The appropriate question is the one asked in the original, surpressed, poll - "Would you play at EH again?"

My answer to that question is, obviously, no. That answer would not change regardless of whether it was a genuine mistake or a deliberate cheat - either way I would never trust them again.

I'd suggest you kill this and recreate the original poll.
 
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kengam

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
Can't we assume that anyone answering b or c would never play at English Harbour? I am trying to establish players' thoughts on if it was accidental and if it had happened before.
 

soflat

Experienced Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Location
Florida
I hate to see another poll go down the drain. But if folks don't see the option they want, it is not going to give a good representation of how they feel.

Everyone's opinion is valid, with or without more information.

How about people suggest what answers they would like to see for the question: Would you play at EH?

Here are a few possible answers to include:
1. Yes. It is a good reputable casino and/or Spearmaster's analysis was convincing.
2. No, they cheated
3. No, they have inadequate controls.
4. No, unless they provided the information needed
5. I don't know. Maybe with a great bonus.
 

TheBloke

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Location
London
soflat said:
I hate to see another poll go down the drain. But if folks don't see the option they want, it is not going to give a good representation of how they feel.

Everyone's opinion is valid, with or without more information.

How about people suggest what answers they would like to see for the question: Would you play at EH?

Here are a few possible answers to include:
1. Yes. It is a good reputable casino and/or Spearmaster's analysis was convincing.
2. No, they cheated
3. No, they have inadequate controls.
4. No, unless they provided the information needed
5. I don't know. Maybe with a great bonus.
Yeah I like these options - suitably granular, and it would be interesting to know the reasons rather than a yes or no.

In order to ensure all bases are covered, I would expand it thus:

Question: Would you play at EH again?
1. Yes - they made a genuine mistake and have dealt with it correclty
2. Yes - they didn't deal with it correctly but I dont think it will be repeated
3. Yes - I don't care/have no opinion, I'll play anyway
4. No - they cheated
5. No - they have inadequate controls/testing
6. No - unless they provide past logs
7. Undecided

Too granular? Maybe, but I dont think it'd stop people voting and we'd see exactly how people feel.
 

Simmo!

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
The mere fact that people would even care to vote would be to reflect their opinions on the "non-random results" case thus it will be an overwhelming "no" vote, so why the need for a poll at all?

And in this poll, you'll also find about half the posters thinking they "cheated" and the other half saying "not sure" because we don't know, and never will, whether it was intended. So that should save some time :)

I do think that the case should be kept in the public eye, if only because it was accepted that the software served up non-random results and people need to be aware of that so they can form their own opinions. But the need for even more threads seems pointless as does the need to have verified what we already know with a poll on the subject. It's already pretty much guaranteed a place in folklore here and elsewhere and will no doubt win some awards when the year comes to a close :D
 
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kengam

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
put up another poll if you guys want. This one suits my purpose. It doesn't look like anyone trusts this outfit's excuse. Well they do have one vote of trust. Gee I wonder who that was. So far the results are overwhelming.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
Your insinuation is not appreciated - furthermore, I am not voting in this poll because it makes no sense. It is clear this is your agenda - you have stated that it serves YOUR purpose.

It ought to be patently clear now who has agendas and who doesn't.
 

GrandMaster

Ueber Meister
CAG
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
What about the option "It is quite possibly a mistake, but I am not satisfied with their response"?
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
GrandMaster said:
What about the option "It is quite possibly a mistake, but I am not satisfied with their response"?
LOL. Here's your answer:

kengam said:
put up another poll if you guys want. This one suits my purpose.
In other words, your option wouldn't suit his purpose.
 

kengam

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
That option is fine. In fact the other question suggestions are also fine. I do not know how to edit my poll. "my purpose" is merely to establish whether I am the only one who believes that they have cheated before. One other poster and I seem to be the vocal ones who think they have been cheated in the past.

I have no agenda except to expose these cheats. I am out a bunch of money. I am sorry you do not have much support in your conclusion Spearmaster, but people have a genuine mistrust in casinos in general. When one is caught cheating by mathematical probabilities then it only fuels further mistrust. If the original poster emailed English Harbour in the beginning and never started a thread which caused such an uproar, do you honestly think the casino would have researched and fixed the problem? Hell no. He would have received the canned bullshit response that they tried to give us publicly when this was brought to their attention.

I find it disgusting the way they have handled the entire situation. They could have at least published their logs from years past. They have refused to send me my own logs let alone the complete logs of the double up game. What does that tell you? I know what it tells me.

While I appreciate your time and interest in this important matter, I do not think you have helped the gaming public out at all with this one. You defended them into silence. You spoke for them when you shouldn't have. You have a great track record and have helped many people out in the past, but you clearly screwed us out of finding out the truth in this one.
 

soflat

Experienced Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Location
Florida
They have refused to send me my own logs let alone the complete logs of the double up game. What does that tell you? I know what it tells me.
Did they refuse or just ignore your request?
 

mitch

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Location
UK
kengam said:
I guess I should have said ignored my request
Kengam

I must admit I have had an issue with your fairly constant questioning of Spears integrity, not acceptable IMO unless you can post evidence rather than speculation.

I have no probs with your questioning of EH and Oddson integrity as there is evidence out there.

I am glad you have followed up on my earlier suggestion of asking EH for your logs as I think the level of your past play would settle the issue of a previous cheating game.

If EH do refuse to release your logs then it is game over as far as I am concerned on the question of deliberate cheating by this group unless they can provide cast iron proof on why they are unable to do so.

Please keep us posted on your attempts to get your logs.

Mitch
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Location
England
64% in support of the "cheated now and quite possibly cheated before" option????

Damn, who'd o' thunk it?? :lolup::lolup:

Come on, hands up the 8% (4) of you who believe it was an accidental "bug". Name 'n shame. :)
 

henryVIII

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Location
UK
caruso said:
64% in support of the "cheated now and quite possibly cheated before" option????

Damn, who'd o' thunk it?? :lolup::lolup:

Come on, hands up the 8% (4) of you who believe it was an accidental "bug". Name 'n shame. :)
I was thinking just that. How can four people, after all we have read, believe it was an innocent mistake.

Bizarre.
 

erp1

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
I agree with those that argue that the present poll is not very well thought out.

I think a poll with the following options in a more reasonable way would represent the different opinions.

What is your general impression of English Harbour casino?

1. Can still be trusted although they made a seriously bad mistake
2. Not recommended
3. Rogue, unethical business practice
4. Rogue, reported cheating software
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
caruso said:
64% in support of the "cheated now and quite possibly cheated before" option????

Damn, who'd o' thunk it?? :lolup::lolup:

Come on, hands up the 8% (4) of you who believe it was an accidental "bug". Name 'n shame. :)

Aww, come on Caruso. This is a poll and those who take part can choose any option they like. Otherwise, who would dare take part in these again if they knew they would be chided over their choice.
 

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