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English Harbour closed and doesn't pay my $12K account

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by Oleg, Jul 21, 2011.

    Jul 21, 2011
  1. Oleg

    Oleg Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Business
    Location:
    Russia
    I had an account in English Harbour Casino for the two years. It passed with varied success but finally I reached more than $12000 on my balance. But at the end of the last year my account was blocked without any explanations and feedback. For several months customer support told me that my account is under reviewing. At last I managed to get on the phone with manager Mick Sloan. As far as I don't have good english speaking skill I asked to send me a claim by email. Here are our short correspondence (but not fast in time):

    'You and I just spoke on the phone. What we talked about was that you claim that you only did what the software allowed you to do, nothing more. What I was asking you was that if you can be honest about your feelings about what the software may have been allowing you to do, as in, didnt you realize that the software may have been allowing you to do something that was outside of the rules of play?
    In our initial search into your account's play showed that you were able to rebuy in the tournament in situations that should have been impossible. You heavily exploited this feature, which is a clear violation of our rules.'

    'Could you specify your claims to me in detail? Do you mean roulette tournament and two consecutive rebuys that I was able to do? That sometimes I bought 100 chips for $6 instead of 50 chips for $3? It didn't give me any dishonest advantage. May be it just did the game a little faster. Every player was able to click Rebuy button and I'm sure many other players used it. So I do not think that it was any violation of your rules and hope that my account will be activated in the near future.'

    'Please allow me some time to get back to you on your comments. I thank you for your patience.'

    Last Mick's message was sent on June 3d. I sent him another letter but haven't received nothing more. As far as they going to be closed on August 1st I've realized that they stalling time on purpose to not pay me out. Since I can't log in so I can't request a withdrawal.

    Have you any ideas how I can return my money?
     
  2. Jul 21, 2011
  3. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    So, you cheated in tournaments to the tune of $12k.

    You should absolutely be paid, no question.
     
  4. Jul 21, 2011
  5. LHofsdal

    LHofsdal Ueber Meister MM

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    NY
    He only did what the software allowed him to do. That is not his fault. And it should not have taken this long for it to be sorted out. I honestly don't think the OP cheated. He can hit rebuy if is allowed, and obviously it was.

    I admit, there is a part me of me that thinks something is missing, just can't put my finger on it.

    LH
     
  6. Jul 21, 2011
  7. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    I am certain that the complainant, as always, is being 100% honest.

    However, whether the software permits a particular action is irrelevant. Can you play video poker with a slots bonus? Yes. Will your winnings be legit? No. I can quote a dozen other examples. Rules exist for a reason, and if they state only one rebuy is allowed at the time, then if someone rebuys twice they are breaking the rules.

    Regardless, it's a greedy online casino who is out to scam everyone so they should be made to pay. Rules should be ignored when players win.

    I do wonder why one would allow one's balance to reach $12k before cashing in....almost as if the player knew that what they were doing was......ah never mind.
     
  8. Jul 21, 2011
  9. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Pitch-A-Bitch and let Maxd decided if you are entitled to receive the money or not.

    This is CasinoMeister's FREE service to help players with problems at non-rogue casinos.
    To submit your PAB, click here: Pitch-A-Bitch
    Be sure to read ALL the terms for submitting a PAB, including the Frequently Asked Questions here: PAB FAQs

    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jul 21, 2011
  11. Seventh777

    Seventh777 RIP Roy

    Occupation:
    Builder, mainly renovations.
    Location:
    Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
    Have to agree with Nifty on this one, although theoretically you have not swindled the casino by receiving more for less, you have gained an advantage over other tournament players by having a larger starter balance.

    Let`s say for argument sake you are playing in an MGS tournament with 10,000 coins and 10 minutes per rebuy, you can quite comfortably use these coins in say under 5 minutes, however you have noticed that you can buy x2 rebuys for twice the cost, you can now play with 20,000 coins per 10 minutes, this would give you an extreme advantage over other players and therefore breaking the rules, even though you have not swindled the casino out of money you have created a leading edge over the other players, thus the cash you have accumulated has been amassed curtsey of a software glitch = no matter what casino you play at in the world, if your winnings have been made whilst there is any form of software bugging then your winnings will be placed under strict scrutiny and in most cases will be made null and void.

    However, if there is no cap on the rebuys you can make at any certain given time during a tournament ie - you can purchase several in one visit, then you would have a strong case.
     
  12. Jul 21, 2011
  13. Oleg

    Oleg Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Business
    Location:
    Russia
    Thanks a lot for all your comments.

    Nifty29 - did you play at English Harbour? If you did you should know their Tournament Schedule. In a monthly tournament the winner got $50K and 2nd - $20K, etc. So I was able to lose $3K on one day and win $4K on another for example. It was a high-rolling casino.

    Seventh777 - You are mistaken, in English Harbour tournaments 'minutes per rebuy' rule does not apply.

    To my mind this is not a Software Glitch, but a stupid mistake made by software developers and careless software testing. Probably they did this on purpose, maybe it is just some kind of trap for players to click on buttons "which are against the rules" and in case of winning it is a good explanation not to pay money won.
     
  14. Jul 21, 2011
  15. kavaman

    kavaman Senior Member PABnononaccred3 PABnononaccred3 MM

    Occupation:
    It
    Location:
    finland
    I for one have been using this trick to rebuy for many months, and they said i have done something wrong. Im sure dozens of tournament players have clicked the rebuy button many times, and it just gives them two rebuys, but costs twice as much.
    I dont think the advantage is huge it just allows to make half bigger bet in the beginning and costs twice as much.
    The software allows this to be done to every player and its not really hard if you were a huge tournament player. The software allows this to be done, and i am sure many players used this "trick".
     
  16. Jul 22, 2011
  17. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    In other words, like the OP, you cheated.

    It doesn't matter how many others did it, it is still wrong.
     
  18. Jul 22, 2011
  19. footdr

    footdr Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules

    Occupation:
    management
    Location:
    cyberspace
    The amount they owe me isn't alot but......

    They never reimbursed me for the last check they sent that bounced. I was told they would reimburse me the $12.00 fee. I redeposited the check and it seems it has cleared o.k. But they charged me 65.00 to send the check instead of the 35.00 I had been charged previously and the least they could have done was pay me the 12.00 or put it into my account. It bounced on July 8 and the cashier was aware that it bounced and in fact contacted the processor to find out if I should redeposit it. So they knew my $12.00 fee was real when I attached a copy of my bank statment, part showing the fee, to my email.

    Guess when you are closing you don't care about ripping players off. Nothing to lose they must think. Oh Well , nothing can be done now.
     
  20. Jul 22, 2011
  21. kavaman

    kavaman Senior Member PABnononaccred3 PABnononaccred3 MM

    Occupation:
    It
    Location:
    finland
    The software allows you to purchase two buyins by easy mistake by clicking bet max right after buying in. It does not allow more then two if your balance reaches close to zero.
    To be honest i never considered this cheating, and i don´t consider it now because i think there is not even one player who has not seen the rebuy option pop up atleast by mistake, even at that stage you do not see has your rebuy been made or not. Only after clicking yes to the rebuy question you notice did you buy one or two times from the chip count.
    I did not play roulette tournaments, i played slots tournaments. 100 or 200 chips made no difference to me as the winning scores were around 100k. The software supplier should have fixed this , as it was there for more then a few years, they must have known about it they just were too lazy.

    And to nifty. I dont consider cheating something that players or casinos should do, but as this happened by mistake or on purpose, and the software allowed this for many years i also did it cos i like to get chips fast so i can spin again.
     
  22. Aug 12, 2011
  23. zippedup

    zippedup Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Atlanta suburb of alpharetta
    english harbour group 8 casinos out of business

    Dont feel like the lone ranger. Just before they closed they told me they were wiring me $10k which remained at three of their casinos. They even provided the reference numbers of the wire. The money never arrived at my account and when I sent emails to them they did not respond. They are closed now of course and sounds like they ripped off a bunch of people
     
  24. Aug 13, 2011
  25. footdr

    footdr Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules

    Occupation:
    management
    Location:
    cyberspace
    I Agree

    They did rip off many obviously they knew after they closed there was nothing players could do, however, since they owe money and didn't comply with the "rules" and basically the "contract". I would dispute any deposits made through their servers(not ewallet). That is legal and they have left players no other choice. This is not a "chargeback" but more like cancelling a check when you didn't recieve the goods or services you purchased. Atleast you can get your deposits that led to your winnings back. I am not suggesting dispute an amount upto what your won as you weren't charged that amount. This is legal and is not fraud on the part of the player. They will be responsible for reimbursing their processor per their contract with them.

    Fortunately they only owed me a $12.00 bounced check fee due to their last check bouncing.
     
  26. Aug 13, 2011
  27. kangamick

    kangamick Dormant account

    Location:
    Australia
    I'm with you nifty

    I remember reading not long ago about a member of this forum complaining about there neteller account being hacked.

    IMO, most likley made a deposit to a casino and lost the lot being a gambling addict and then tried to blame a hacker so they could fraud their money back.

    So again I'm with you, can't trust any complainants these days. So many fraudsters :rolleyes:
     
    2 people like this.
  28. Aug 13, 2011
  29. footdr

    footdr Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules

    Occupation:
    management
    Location:
    cyberspace
    Kangamick, why assume a member is a "fraudster". This is the problem with many member here, these types of comments aren't helpful and people made the above posts because they want feedback from others who may be experiencing the same issue. I double they wanted to be called basically a "liar".
     
    2 people like this.
  30. Aug 13, 2011
  31. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Based on the information supplied by the OP, they were taking advantage of a software glitch and knowingly breaking the rules. It doesn't matter whether you want to call it scamming or fraud or what - it still is what it is, and that is DISHONEST.

    I would say over 95% of these types of complaints turn out to be fraudulent, so I'll stick with the odds thankyou. If you want to be sucked in by every blow-in with a shocking story of being ripped off, that is your perogative.

    I would also ask you to provide links about all these people being ripped off by EH, besides the $12 they took you for. I would be interested to read them.

    I also don't think its a good idea to suggest that members dispute credit card transactions I.e. chargeback. AFAIK its grounds for termination of membership to chargeback for any reason, regardless of how legitimate one might think it is.
     
  32. Aug 13, 2011
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    If this bug was around for "years", and being used by a number of players over that time, EH should take a fair bit of the blame for failing to protect the "average player" from being disadvantaged over this period. This glitch should have shown up in routine end of tournament audits, and even if the glitch itself was not identifiable, it should have been clear that "something was up".

    We have a similar situation with Microgaming tournaments, with complaints that some players have found a glitch that allows them to "always win". MGS have repeatedly denied that there is anything wrong with these tournements, or what these players are doing to beat the field, yet they HAVE quietly banned at least one participant from MPV, suggesting MGS know that there IS "something up", but won't admit it because this will make them have to fix it, as well as putting many players off participating. One suggestion, based on the unrealistic looking high scores consistently achieved by this group of players, is that a glitch that allows more continues than allowed in the rules has been found.

    If the EH tournaments were based on highest balance, then starting with 200 chips rather than 100 WOULD offer an advantage, and not an insignificant one either. This would lead to those players only having 100 chips not having a fair chance to win the higher prizes, and it would be regarded as cheating. It is the same in sport, where certain types of equipment have been banned because it gives a small minority an advantage over the majority.
     
  34. Aug 13, 2011
  35. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    You might have mentioned that you had filed a PAB during which it was revealed that they casino tried to contact you many times to discuss your (miss)use of the "rebuy" during tournament play. You didn't cooperate and eventually stopped responding to their questions and so they felt they had no choice but to take action against you.

    And this "the software lets me so it must be okay" stuff is rubbish. You can always drive the wrong way down the freeway -- your car engine and tires won't stop you -- but that hardly means it's okay "'cause my car let's me do it". I don't mean to be condescending here but doesn't civilized society depend on people behaving in a civilized manner? If you can't or won't then I reckon you richly deserve the anarchy you cause. Unfortunately you also bring that down on the rest of us which most of us neither asked for nor want.
     
    2 people like this.

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