Your Input Please End of 'reverse withdrawals' nigh?

dunover

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OK, upon further examination of the article regarding UKGC Intentions from @News Hound I have found an indication that soon they are likely to examine the effect of reversals on responsible gambling. There is this little gem there, lower down:

"...….Consider whether we need to make changes to LCCP in order to ensure that consumers can withdraw funds more easily We are aware that some operators only undertake customer diligence checks at the point of withdrawal, which can delay the time it takes for consumers to access their funds. The improvements to customer identification outlined above are likely to remove the need for this in many cases because operators will have already completed these checks. However, some operators offer the ability to “reverse withdrawal”, a facility that enables consumers to cancel their request to withdraw funds prior to the funds being transferred to their account.
8 The CMA has also raised concerns about some of the practices associated with restricting customers from withdrawing funds. For example, these include unreasonably high minimum withdrawal limits, and terms that prevent consumers from withdrawing money they have deposited unless they wager its value in full once, or several times. The outcomes of the CMA investigation will inform our work on withdrawal of funds and help us to better assess the potential risk of harm associated with reverse withdrawals."

So what they are saying is that the new pre-verification will remove the excuse for holding up withdrawals as far as KYC goes and the logical next step is stop pending periods if demonstrated to be unfavourable to players.

One or two people already mentioned this likelihood in the pre-verification thread so it seems they are actually going to put an end to this abhorrent practice. :D

Mind you, knowing that anything from 15-35% of pending withdrawals are spunked back, this may be the final straw for many UK-facing smaller operators.

As I've said before, we are heading down the road to a small number of big to giant operators in the UK, nice cash cows for the arbitrary huge fines the UKGC likes collecting for every small transgression. Your corner shop will go, then you local mini-market and you've only the supermarket giants left to shop in....metaphorically speaking.
 

steveh35

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Reverse Withdrawal should have been the first thing they looked at about time they finally taking notice of this even if it was due to a payment/document issue they could easily have a lock feature like Trada.
 

goatwack

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I take it casinos are going to implement longer-than-normal withdrawal times to get around it
 

IM_SPORTS

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I personally feel like the reverse withdrawal feature must have the most negative effect on people
It's when you reverse the withdrawal and lose all of it when you feel most down from my experience
I don't really get into that too much anymore I just play at casinos that do instant withdrawals with no waiting
 

dunover

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I take it casinos are going to implement longer-than-normal withdrawal times to get around it
LOL..but it would be pointless as the UKGC has already advised on it and secondly it still couldn't be reversed at all.
 

lotusch

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I would be delighted if they would get rid of the WD reversal option.
I personally have no issues with WD's, once I have hit that button I will never ever reverse it.
But weaker people might fall for it and lose whatever they originally withdrew.

I like the lock option like TRADA casino has, in that case you cannot use the reverse option anymore.

But yes, it would be best if this option will be removed due to new legislations.

I assume this is for UK players anyway.
 

IM_SPORTS

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LOL..but it would be pointless as the UKGC has already advised on it and secondly it still couldn't be reversed at all.
Hmm thought he had a point for a second then you have changed my mind. There would be no point to make withdrawal times longer.
 

dunover

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I would be delighted if they would get rid of the WD reversal option.
I personally have no issues with WD's, once I have hit that button I will never ever reverse it.
But weaker people might fall for it and lose whatever they originally withdrew.

I like the lock option like TRADA casino has, in that case you cannot use the reverse option anymore.

But yes, it would be best if this option will be removed due to new legislations.

I assume this is for UK players anyway.

Yep, UK players.

We in the UK are having so many protections and rights and benefits foisted upon us by the UKGC it's embarrassing. Just a shame there won't be many UK casinos left for us to play at who can afford them all.
 

SpinUk

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Its all gone too far. All for player protection but personally would like more than 3 casinos to play at in the future, the eventual lack of consumer choice far outweighs the “benefits” of all this newly introduced legislation.
 

colinsunderland

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Its all gone too far. All for player protection but personally would like more than 3 casinos to play at in the future, the eventual lack of consumer choice far outweighs the “benefits” of all this newly introduced legislation.

So you think having your withdrawal sitting there for days reversible is a good thing? Because I'll bet, if they aren't allowed to have them reversible casinos will process the withdrawal much quicker than they do now.
 

SpinUk

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So you think having your withdrawal sitting there for days reversible is a good thing? Because I'll bet, if they aren't allowed to have them reversible casinos will process the withdrawal much quicker than they do now.

If it means even more UK casinos shutting down, which it definately will if this is true -

“Mind you, knowing that anything from 15-35% of pending withdrawals are spunked back, this may be the final straw for many UK-facing smaller operators”.

Rather not live in a Nanny state thanks, I'm more than happy to take responsibilty for my own actions to keep my consumer choices.
 

dunover

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If it means even more UK casinos shutting down, which it definately will if this is true -

“Mind you, knowing that anything from 15-35% of pending withdrawals are spunked back, this may be the final straw for many UK-facing smaller operators”.

Rather not live in a Nanny state thanks, I'm more than happy to take responsibilty for my own actions to keep my consumer choices.


Yeah, those figures arose from three off-the-record convos I've had in the past with people who work, or worked for online slots sites. It could be more at some, negligible on others depending on their timescales and type of players. Some sites have very tight margins and I sincerely believe, although we like it as players, it could finally nail some sites who account for reversal percentages.

I firmly believe too that in the UK we are headed inexorably to a shrunken market carved up between relatively few operators. If you think we are losing sites now, wait until summer...
 

Mouche12

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There are similar expectations with respect to a narrower choice of regulated gambling sites once the Dutch Gambling Act takes effect in 2020 - also considering the licence costs and taxation (the same 29%). As long as Guts and V&J remain available to me, I don't mind.
 

steveh35

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If it means even more UK casinos shutting down, which it definately will if this is true -

“Mind you, knowing that anything from 15-35% of pending withdrawals are spunked back, this may be the final straw for many UK-facing smaller operators”.

Rather not live in a Nanny state thanks, I'm more than happy to take responsibilty for my own actions to keep my consumer choices.
I am sorry but reverse withdrawal is not a responsibility it should never have been allowed imagine going to a bingo hall and winning a £1000 and the assistant says we will give you your winnings in 3 days time in the meantime you can buy more tickets with it if you want or a bookie and you win something on the grand national on Saturday and you go to the desk to claim your winnings and they said we can't pay you until Monday afternoon but you can put all your winnings on the next race if you want, people would go crazy if they were not paid straight them.

Casinos have no right to keep your money and say you can still gamble with it but won't let you withdraw it until they decide.
 

SlotGrinder

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Even casinos that offer a lock withdrawal option always hide it somewhere in small text . It's clearly a big part of a casino's income but why should it be ? No brainer imo . No pending allowed and max 1 day to process withdrawals and have them sent out . Including weekends because casinos have never been a 9 to 5 business so there is no excuse for not working weekends
 

TheAverageGuy

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Can't risk it, overall profits would drop, tax kickbacks would shrink,the sky would fall...

Plus.. what would we do with all of that extra money?
 

colinsunderland

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If it means even more UK casinos shutting down, which it definately will if this is true -

“Mind you, knowing that anything from 15-35% of pending withdrawals are spunked back, this may be the final straw for many UK-facing smaller operators”.

Rather not live in a Nanny state thanks, I'm more than happy to take responsibilty for my own actions to keep my consumer choices.

Any casino that relies on people reversing withdrawals can close for me. If their profit margin is that low, then chances are they won't pay you if you get a big win anyway.

Heres a mad idea, when I deposit it takes seconds. How about when I withdraw its done in the same time it takes to take the money.
 

pinnit2014

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As above, there's nothing nanny state about people who win asking for their money to be paid without some arbitrary pending period. Your business model must be pretty dicey if pending periods are the difference in you being classed as a going concern, or not.
 

nikantw

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To add my recent experience:

I don't play much at CR and I can't remember my last cashout from them. But I have one now from Quatro Casino.
Pending period of 2 business days but only released for payment at the following business day at 12:00 AEST (midday).
Until it is released it remains reversible, so the reversible period is anywhere from 49hrs to 145hrs (if there is a weekend and a national holiday).

I made the request at 14:15 AEST so mine will be reversible for at least 70hrs. And I have to hope that they will have enough time from Friday 12:00 AEST to 17:00 AEST to pay in my Neteller.
If they don't make it, it goes for Monday.

Now I don't know if the same applies for UK customers. I suppose it does.

BTW the Quatro Casino Review, trusted & updated info - Casinomeister
doesn't exactly reflect their practice for 48hrs+24hrs+WD+holiday reversible period.
 

Scott1baird

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I was gonna do a withdrawal when It was time,
I was gonna use that money to go and buy some pies,
I was gonna eat those pies before the I got home.
But I got high roller got high I got high.
I clicked that reverse been button cos I was high,
I tried to win a holy diver cos I was high,
I watched dunovers review on it cos I was high,
Did I win did I fuck cos I was high.
Nah nah na na na na nah.



Disclaimer not true events apart from watching dunovers enthusiastic review lol.
 

EkJR

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I take it casinos are going to implement longer-than-normal withdrawal times to get around it

With the pending May changes namely being verified up front before depositing they have no excuse nor justifiable reason to delay withdrawals. Normally the say withdrawals are held for further verification and money laundering checks, because these have already been checked there is zero excuse.
 

ChopleyIOM

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One or two people already mentioned this likelihood in the pre-verification thread so it seems they are actually going to put an end to this abhorrent practice. :D

Mind you, knowing that anything from 15-35% of pending withdrawals are spunked back, this may be the final straw for many UK-facing smaller operators.

As I've said before, we are heading down the road to a small number of big to giant operators in the UK, nice cash cows for the arbitrary huge fines the UKGC likes collecting for every small transgression. Your corner shop will go, then you local mini-market and you've only the supermarket giants left to shop in....metaphorically speaking.

Blimey dunover, I think you're stretching a bit there. After (correctly) identifying allowing reversals as 'abhorrent', you've not really got much to hang 'it'll be bad for players' on.

If a THIRD of withdrawals are getting reversed in some cases, then this is a massive issue, and I think it stands to reason that those most likely to reverse are those with RG issues, so prohibiting reversals is clearly going to help out problem gamblers, which we all agree is a good thing I take it?

Personally I think the reversal system stinks to high heaven, I've never reversed myself but I can totally understand how some people crack and reverse, as hours turns into days, and their rightful winnings are still being held hostage by the casino.

And the thing is, if the withdrawal is being held for verification purposes, extra checks, customer safety and all the other bullshit they come out with, why is the withdrawal available to be reversed? It should be locked until those checks are complete, not reversible.

The casino is effectively saying, 'You can't have your money yet because of things a, b and c which are REALLY IMPORTANT and FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY, as soon as a, b and c are finished, you can have your money. Oh, unless you want to just lose all your money by reversing right now, in which case we don't give a fuck about a, b and c any longer and you can get your cash now by pressing this handy big CANCEL WITHDRAWAL button in your cashier screen.'

If any casinos out there do rely on margins from reversals to keep their heads above water, then I'm afraid it's probably best that they're not around to prey on people in their moments of weakness.
 
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