Email from CAP

[PokerNations]

A lot of programs were considering dropping out of certification in the coming months as CAP had lost a lot of integrity. I think what happened is that Warren panicked and took all of the money for himself.

Is he even going to pay employees with that money? Is he even in the country anymore? Notice after banning the prof he completely disappeared.

All speculation of course but the writing is on the wall. Let's not forget who is around and who is not.

Good point, but in regards to the last part of your post:

If you don't have access to the funds necessary to flee the country and set yourself up comfortably on foreign soil where they won't deport you back to the states for trial............

 

[dominique]

Jas and Lottso, the reason we keep going round and round is because we are not talking about the same thing, when you hear CAP you think Lou and Warren and affiliate media, when I hear CAP I think of dozens of good friends I am used to seeing at the messageboard everyday for years and years.

When you hear CAP you think of card spike and when I hear cap I think of years of outing rogue affiliate programs.

I keep feeling misunderstood, but I understand why that happens.

It's all a big tangled mess, when I feel I am defending my peers, you hear me defending affiliate media while Lou apparently hears me attacking him.

This is all too convoluted.

 

[casinoranking]

Dude Calvin Ayre is worth 1.5 billion and travelled back and forth between Costa Rica and Canada and he didn't have to worry about anything and he was public as can be.

I doubt they are going to chase someone for stealing a million.

Seriously you get in more trouble stealing a candy car from Walmart then you do stealing money from investors or from a company.

 

[jas2587]

Jas and Lottso, the reason we keep going round and round is because we are not talking about the same thing, when you hear CAP you think Lou and Warren and affiliate media, when I hear CAP I think of dozens of good friends I am used to seeing at the messageboard everyday for years and years.

When you hear CAP you think of card spike and when I hear cap I think of years of outing rogue affiliate programs.

I keep feeling misunderstood, but I understand why that happens.

It's all a big tangled mess, when I feel I am defending my peers, you hear me defending affiliate media while Lou apparently hears me attacking him.

This is all too convoluted.

I dont think it is Just I an Lotso there are some thta just choose not to speak out

when I see Cap or Lou an Warren what comes to mind is:

Their denial of ummm owning Cardspike
Their denial of paying affiliates
The way the members of Cap was treated for saying 1 tiny word about wanting payment their avitars was changed they had post done in their names that they didn't do they was bellitted
Lou talked to them like they was dogs
I think of Steven being strung up by them 4 security gaurds after a beat down an forced to leave a motel that he had a room at
I see lou saying to J Todd come on lets take it outside an settle this
The affiliates all being charged different prices for almost the same teir on the totem pole which this 2 was discovered in London when they all sat down an discussed this
Lou having to retire because of health issues
then he goes to London an calls J Todd out
then he comes back an says my mother is ill who put you in charge Dom well no 1 talked to me about it an right back to his bully antics

yes I am no affiliate but by gosh I know enough of them that I respect what they do an know they work damn hard for ther money to be pissed on like this

Cindy

 

[jas2587]

Dude Calvin Ayre is worth 1.5 billion and travelled back and forth between Costa Rica and Canada and he didn't have to worry about anything and he was public as can be.

I doubt they are going to chase someone for stealing a million.

Seriously you get in more trouble stealing a candy car from Walmart then you do stealing money from investors or from a company.

last I heard Calvin Ayre was in hiding

Cindy

 

[dominique]

I dont think it is Just I an Lotso there are some thta just choose not to speak out

when I see Cap or Lou an Warren what comes to mind is:

Their denial of ummm owning Cardspike
Their denial of paying affiliates
The way the members of Cap was treated for saying 1 tiny word about wanting payment their avitars was changed they had post done in their names that they didn't do they was bellitted
Lou talked to them like they was dogs
I think of Steven being strung up by them 4 security gaurds after a beat down an forced to leave a motel that he had a room at
I see lou saying to J Todd come on lets take it outside an settle this
The affiliates all being charged different prices for almost the same teir on the totem pole which this 2 was discovered in London when they all sat down an discussed this
Lou having to retire because of health issues
then he goes to London an calls J Todd out
then he comes back an says my mother is ill who put you in charge Dom well no 1 talked to me about it an right back to his bully antics

yes I am no affiliate but by gosh I know enough of them that I respect what they do an know they work damn hard for ther money to be pissed on like this

Cindy

I get that. You betcha I do. And what's the victim in all of that is the community of folks I call CAP. The affiliates. And the affiliate programs. All the people who make up the community.

 

[lots0]

Jas and Lottso, the reason we keep going round and round is because we are not talking about the same thing, when you hear CAP you think Lou and Warren and affiliate media, when I hear CAP I think of dozens of good friends I am used to seeing at the messageboard everyday for years and years.

When you hear CAP you think of card spike and when I hear cap I think of years of outing rogue affiliate programs.

Dom I understand the community you love, but how can you expect to be able to separate between the unethical and possibly illegal activity of the owners of the website and the website it's self?

It's like trying to separate the people that are making millions from the website that makes their money...

I don't really see how that is possible.

Lou has made it plain he is not about to give up CAP...
and obviously Warren wants CAP real bad as he has supposedly seized control of the millions, the business and the website that generated all the money.

Both of these guys are willing to destroy a million dollar business in order to control it (not even getting into the other crap they have pulled)... and you really think either one of these two are going to give up their big money maker for the good of the community... Good God Dom... What are you thinking?

 

[RobWin]

the way I see it what is left of the affiliates there are dropping like flies daily
if Warren is gonna do this to a partner he will think twice about doin worse to the remaining affiliates
so now Bob is the miracle worker is he gonna be able to erase what has happened I dont think so
there are affiliates still saying they are owed money how bout Warren throw some of that 2 Mil the affiliates way

Professer you are doing something here that you was real good at doin at Cap an that is ignoring ?s that are put directly to you

Lou did you go report the theft?

and as Robwin asked did you do this:

Lou, What did the Bank say when you asked them how Warren was able to electronically (online) manage to transfer over $1,000,000.00 to an offshore account with the "Patriot Act" in place without you or him either one having to show up at the bank in person to fill out all the necessary paperwork that is required in order to transfer that amount of money out of the country since the "Patriot Act" was implemented??

You did...ask them this, right??


Cindy

It doesn't look like Lou want's to tackle my question does it Cindy, I see he has now avoided it all day now...LOL

You da man Lou....

 

[RobWin]

Jas and Lottso, the reason we keep going round and round is because we are not talking about the same thing, when you hear CAP you think Lou and Warren and affiliate media, when I hear CAP I think of dozens of good friends I am used to seeing at the messageboard everyday for years and years.

When you hear CAP you think of card spike and when I hear cap I think of years of outing rogue affiliate programs.

I keep feeling misunderstood, but I understand why that happens.

It's all a big tangled mess, when I feel I am defending my peers, you hear me defending affiliate media while Lou apparently hears me attacking him.

This is all too convoluted.

Dom, why would your peers need defending, I can't see that your peers have done anything wrong in all of this mess, but only Lou and Warren.

And if you are so concerned about the community all you have to do is head over to an honest one like the GPWA, most of your peers are already over there anyway, why are you still trying so hard to save this pirate ship that has been sinking now for months Dom? I just don't get it...

 

[RobWin]

FYI I just got back from WAMU and Warren has stolen over $2Million dollars from our bank accounts since January. On Friday before I could post he stole almost all the money we had in that account and this was prior to my posting or emailing anything.

So how does Raj feel about Warren stealing this money?

Is he just sitting by in idle mode while this, being his money too, is being taken out of the account?

Raj had no knowledge of this happening either?

 

[RobWin]

Subject: Warren Jolly Actions at CAP Unauthorized
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:29:24 -0600
From: professor@casinoaffiliateprograms.com[/B] <professor@casinoaffiliateprograms.com>
To: <removed>


Dear Certified Partners and CAP Members


7. Last year Warren told me he wanted to open a poker room. I was opposed to the idea but he went ahead and signed a contract with a provider under a false name and informed me after the fact we were now in the poker business. He asked if I would manage the project and also handle a legitmate client that wanted to re-enter the casino business. I was hesitant, but was backed into a corner as we couldnt do these sort of things under the Affiliate Media banner as it would be a conflict of interest with what CAP did. That is why we formed Effective Media Group.

Nope lotso Warren is full owner of Cardspike. He always was. EMG was retained as a consultant for Cardspike and again due to the situation I had little choice but to do what was necessary to try to protect CAP and AMI

Lou, You may also have a lot more bigger problems than just the $2million that is missing, since EMG is a US corporation and acted as consultant to Warrens "CardSpike Poker Room" it may be as serious as you and EMG being an accessory to the fact that you knowingly took bets from US citizens and acted in a similar role as the books do in the eyes of the DOJ. This is just my opinion but if I were you I think I would be spending the rest of the week trying to find myself a good attorney after all of this info is now out in the mainstream media.

 

[jas2587]

Dom, why would your peers need defending, I can't see that your peers have done anything wrong in all of this mess, but only Lou and Warren.

And if you are so concerned about the community all you have to do is head over to an honest one like the GPWA, most of your peers are already over there anyway, why are you still trying so hard to save this pirate ship that has been sinking now for months Dom? I just don't get it...

they are all skirting around the Big Questions which again makes ya wonder if this is all a script? IMO


Cindy

 

[daera]

Dom, why would your peers need defending, I can't see that your peers have done anything wrong in all of this mess, but only Lou and Warren.

And if you are so concerned about the community all you have to do is head over to an honest one like the GPWA, most of your peers are already over there anyway, why are you still trying so hard to save this pirate ship that has been sinking now for months Dom? I just don't get it...

Jas and Lottso, the reason we keep going round and round is because we are not talking about the same thing, when you hear CAP you think Lou and Warren and affiliate media, when I hear CAP I think of dozens of good friends I am used to seeing at the messageboard everyday for years and years.

It's all a big tangled mess, when I feel I am defending my peers, you hear me defending affiliate media while Lou apparently hears me attacking him.

I can't speak for Dominique or explain what she meant exactly. But this is how I interpreted her words, specifically the part about "defending my peers".

We all see things differently. And unless we were looking out through someone elses eyes it's hard to realize that they see things completely differently.

Dominiuqe keeps saying that she understands some of us see this situation with CAP differently than she does.

For example, through Professors eyes he apparently sees Dom attacking him. Through some of your eyes, you see Dominique as defending Affiliate Media. And Dom keeps saying that she is concerned about the affiliate community as a whole, and the people that make up that community. She keeps defending the importance of the affiliate community to stay united, and work together to find solutions. I think Dom is just trying to distinguish what she's here defending. It's not Lou or Warren or CAP as a business, but the affiliate community.

That's how I interpreted her posts and what she meant by "defending my peers". Dominique can correct this if I'm wrong.

 

[pokeraddict]

I think Dom is just trying to distinguish what she's here defending. It's not Lou or Warren or CAP as a business, but the affiliate community.

That's how I see it too.

 

[Casinomeister]

Tough to prove anything if my pdfs are removed Simmo. I hope Bryan will be fair and allow me to show whats being done. Even if you dont like me personally, it isnt right.

Hi Lou, I would take Simmos! advice and carefully decide whether or not you really need to post your pdf. If you do decide to do this, please post it elsewhere since it has no real place in this forum. Thank you.

...Finally, Bryan sure knows when to take a holiday

But now I have to read all these threads at once

 

[jas2587]

I just noticed something very odd in 1 of the Professer's post here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/29708/
post#72 he says
"""" Dom you said you believe in freedom of speach and were hopeful Warren and I would work everything out. How is that possible if I have been banned at CAP, blocked on Skype and had my internal email accounts blocked and he refuses to accept any calls from me. Please note all of this was done PRIOR to my sending out the email earlier today and making the post which Warren or AJ removed.""""


How is this so when the email that he sent out to every one that started this thread is his email from professor@casinoaffiliateprograms.com so how could he have been locked out when he says all was done before he sent out this email

Cindy

 

[jod5413]

Ah Jas, you are a real Sherlock Holmes, ya know!!!

That sure does seem funny, but I am sure it was just a slip of the tongue. Or...........?

 

[jas2587]

Ah Jas, you are a real Sherlock Holmes, ya know!!!

That sure does seem funny, but I am sure it was just a slip of the tongue. Or...........?

Sherly Holmes

Please note all of this was done PRIOR to my sending out the email earlier today and making the post which Warren or AJ removed.""""


Cindy

 

[bb1webs]

when I hear cap I think of years of outing rogue affiliate programs.

I keep feeling misunderstood, but I understand why that happens.

It's all a big tangled mess, when I feel I am defending my peers, you hear me defending affiliate media while Lou apparently hears me attacking him.

This is all too convoluted.

Exactly my point to you Dom in my PM (via my forum).

But I'll say it again here publicly. Get them out of there. Don't rebuild on faulty foundation.

You're exactly right it IS the community. Why is felt so strongly that they will wither and die if they pick up and move to a different spot?

And like I offered you because I love the people at cap too. Come in and be a full partner and that way there's no way you are in a position to not have a say, and you can't be banned that way.

But if that's not appealing then take the flock and move it to some other spot.

There is still a great possiblity that the legal issues will envelope many of the community who have nothing to do with anything the owners of CAP did that still may end up spending money on legal fees just to ensure they don't take a wrong step.

Bottom line is the community doesn't need the crap. There is no reason to stay on soured ground.

At best case scenario ... (and I can't even guess what that might be?) but at best case scenario you'll be rebuilding on a property owned by someone that has proven to be lying. (Yes they can say what they want pointing fingers at each other but its obvious they all had a very good idea what was going on)

... I believe some blame was even thrown Dom's way but that to do with the "Coup" which still boggles my mind how anybody could think that of Dom after she's fought so hard for CAP.

But truth is that they (owners) were all quite content with the money flowing in and nothing was said nor would have ever been said if not for the falling out between the three shareholders.

So one is as guilty as the other ... when in respect to choosing where you want to rebuild the CAP community. There is undeniable proof every owner is guilty of having lied to the community and isn't that enough right there?

There's just a more likely scenario that CM is actually Ollie North ... than there is that not all the owners of the website CAP and the company EM ... were not aware of the conflict of interest and the laws stating you cannot run or own an online casino when living in the states.

There's nothing at CAP that can't be done again in a short amount of time and this time around it could be done in a more organized manner (in respect to the archives on SEO etc) because that is the only redeeming quality about having to have the community at that spot.


They'd still be the great bunch of people they are now only without the fear of reprisals for speaking out. They'd not have to worry (so much anyway) about what is going to happen or who it will involve when all this crap is given the attention it will most likely get from the DOJ.

There's just little downside and a lot of upside to my logic.

You're the best Dom. You deserve better.


ps

And the programs that have already chosen to leave .. would be then again available to the community and any that are staying will I'm certain be more than happy to add an extra stopping point on their routine to be able to address the quality of affiliates that are the CAP community .. (no matter where they are located).

 

[GamTrak]

Very good points BB1!

I wanted to just add something though.

I do not see how being a member at CAP can cause individuals a problem legally. Being a webmaster is not illegal yet and I don't think it's right to scare folks. The CAP membership should not be stoned or have their place taken away just because it's the "IN" thing to do right now.

As popular as the idea may be I do not see CAP folding up and dying after this. I think some good will come of it, but not sure what it will be just yet.

My point is that everyone should be allowed to choose where they visit if it's CAP or elsewhere.

I've seen to many folks dictating what should happen and what folks should do and how bad folks have been treated. IMO everyone should do as they please and let the same apply to others that don't share thier view and we will all get along much better.

 

[RobWin]

I do not see how being a member at CAP can cause individuals a problem legally. Being a webmaster is not illegal yet

Being a webwaster has no bearing at all on the issue at hand but the fact of "guilty by association" does, depending on what you knew and when you knew it, if and when an indictment is handed down and named party is called in to give a deposition during discovery.

As popular as the idea may be I do not see CAP folding up and dying after this.

That all really depends on how far this goes out into the mass media outlets and whether or not the DOJ still has an agenda to thwart online gambling by choosing to go after Lou, Warren and Raj and also EMG for their involvement in running/operating an online poker room from the US by means of using a US Corporation for doing this and implementing a way and means to accomplish that.

 

[BingoT]

We don't need to see this on 60 Minutes like that last show they had on poker.
That would be two in one year.
I think if they got a hold of this story it will fly.
Big story of 2009 Online Gaming From The US.

 

[GamTrak]

Being a webwaster has no bearing at all on the issue at hand but the fact of "guilty by association" does, depending on what you knew and when you knew it, if and when an indictment is handed down and named party is called in to give a deposition during discovery.

Huh? Don't get it twisted please. "guilty by association" that only applies to the court and should NOT be used by yourself and others against the members like what is currently being done. IMO it's like blackmail and telling folks what to do just because it's your wish.

That all really depends on how far this goes out into the mass media outlets and whether or not the DOJ still has an agenda to thwart online gambling by choosing to go after Lou, Warren and Raj and also EMG for their involvement in running/operating an online poker room from the US by means of using a US Corporation for doing this and implementing a way and means to accomplish that.

Even if it does get in the media it has no affect on the members of CAP. We have not done anything or knew anything. CAP will continue to exist. Sorry that makes you unhappy.

 

[dominique]

You guys have got to know that it is extremely likely the DOJ follows the major message boards anyway and is familiair with who is who and what is what.

Also, as far as legal matters go, I am not sure how Cardspike would be categorized. I assume it is a white label (skin) and is operated by Cake, with EMG handling the affiliate end as master affiliate.

I don't know this for sure, but a lot of places we consider seperate entities online are skins, with a central place for all operator type activities. Skin owners merely promote the skin like affiliates in general do.

I have never seen the virtues of promoting one's own skin, I suppose you get a higher percentage that way, but then you are responsible for all promotions and if you are no good at it you go broke on it. And if you end up managing affiliates, that's a huge responsibility I wouldn't want.

There is no way I can tell if this is the case or not, but it is certainly a possibility.

 

[RobWin]

Huh? Don't get it twisted please. "guilty by association" that only applies to the court and should NOT be used by yourself and others against the members like what is currently being done. IMO it's like blackmail and telling folks what to do just because it's your wish.

Exactly, it does only apply to the court, and that is exactly what I am talking about here. If this case, issue, situation ever makes it into court then that is one of the scenarios that could possibly go down. There are many more but that is just one of them.

Even if it does get in the media it has no affect on the members of CAP. We have not done anything or knew anything. CAP will continue to exist. Sorry that makes you unhappy.

Making it into the media will have little or no effect on the prominent members of CAP, but making it into court could possibly have an effect depending on whether or not you are called in to do a deposition during discovery or not and what you say or don't say during that deposition may or may not have bearing on the "association" part.

Any more free legal advice and I am going to have to start billing you...