eCOGRA MG Audits

[spearmaster]

I think MLS is 13 Years old which is new in the context of football organisations.

LOL... ok

An ecogra equivelant could be an inspector that tests the software in real time from an end users perspective.
(The details of how this would actually work in the real World could/would go on for many pages) I really would need to be paid a consultancy fee for that

Don't know if such exists, but definitely a good suggestion if it doesn't.

Regarding your last paragraph I am not sure you write it with much conviction.
You suggest that ecogra works in much the same manner and then go on to write,
If any "indiscretion or breach" should come to their attention, they should indeed have the capability and will to act appropriately as well.

Yes they should but they don't that is it in a nutshell.
Now if you had writen do instead of should I would find myself making the same arguments as to why disagree all over again.

As I obviously don't know all the situations where an indiscretion or breach has occurred, I can only talk about what may be, rather than what has been!

Now you say that they don't - can you provide an example of where an operator has committed some indiscretion or breach of eCOGRA's regulations, and where eCOGRA has not taken action?

That is really a symptom of the main issue.
I am saying a cure for this would be if ecogra were stronger with wider reaching powers and respected equally in its ability amongst Casinos.
(Just as FIFA is amongst its members and hence potential members want to join ASAP. In fact if they wish to be taken seriously they have to join and that is a measure of FIFA's power and standing.

The real issue is how best to make ecogra into such a powerful and widely respected regulatory body that every Casino wants to join or put another way why is ecogra not a powerful and widely respected regulatory body that all Casinos wish to join.

Ok, that makes sense - but the next question is, since operators already have to pay to become members, how much more would it cost to give eCOGRA the necessary financial muscle to perform all of the additional work that would have to go into this?

Not every casino can join in any case - a software provider must agree to provide access to its systems, and agree to become a member of eCOGRA itself, before its operators may apply to become eCOGRA members. As some software manufacturers do not wish to do this, their operators cannot become eCOGRA members, even though I know a number who would definitely join.

I'm all for making eCOGRA more powerful and useful. But I don't have any great suggestions to give them - if you do, please by all means - they will (not should, mind you) be appreciative of your efforts.

On Fletcher-Yes he was a true Gentleman and obviously Drogba could learn a lot from Him as I dare say Fletcher felt an even greater sense of personal injustice.
If only society had more role models like Him.

Drogba and Ballack both... and even John Terry, though to his credit he then went into the Barca dressing room and congratulated each of them individually.

I think UEFA need to find better police.... er... referees

 

[Rusty]

Now you say that they don't - can you provide an example of where an operator has committed some indiscretion or breach of eCOGRA's regulations, and where eCOGRA has not taken action?

You wrote the above in response to this which in turn was my reply to what you wrote, paraphrased below. (Getting confusing I know)

Regarding your last paragraph I am not sure you write it with much conviction.
You suggest that ecogra works in much the same manner and then go on to write,
"If any indiscretion or breach" should come to their attention, they should indeed have the capability and will to act appropriately as well."

Yes they should but they don't that is it in a nutshell.
Now if you had writen do instead of should I would find myself making the same arguments as to why disagree all over again.

So you can see that in this context I was making a statement about ecogras impotence when compared to another regulatory body such as FIFA and not on their ability to enforce vague recommendations.
For that reason I have no knowledge of any individual cases dealt with by ecogra because it is not relevant to the point I am amaking.

If you are not quite sure what I mean then put yourself in the position of a Casino owner that is a member of ecogra.
Now lets assume you are not the upstanding moral citizen I know you to be and you are only concerned with profit by any means rather than the absurd dirty socialist notion of fairness but you don't want to rub ecogras nose in it to the extent that they have to save face and do something about it.

In fact you can play a game and see just how rogue you can make your Casino without getting too many player complaints and up ecogra's nose.

Ok, that makes sense - but the next question is, since operators already have to pay to become members, how much more would it cost to give eCOGRA the necessary financial muscle to perform all of the additional work that would have to go into this?

Not every casino can join in any case - a software provider must agree to provide access to its systems, and agree to become a member of eCOGRA itself, before its operators may apply to become eCOGRA members. As some software manufacturers do not wish to do this, their operators cannot become eCOGRA members, even though I know a number who would definitely join.

I'm all for making eCOGRA more powerful and useful. But I don't have any great suggestions to give them - if you do, please by all means - they will (not should, mind you) be appreciative of your efforts.

Of course there are obsticles but they are not insurmountable.

In the case of some Casinos wanting to join but not being able to because their software provider does not want to be part of ecogra, I would say this a good example of what I have talked about previously.
If these Casinos really see ecogra as an important move toward legitimacy they should make this clear to their software provider.
If this cuts no ice with them then change software provider at the first opportunity.
This will leave these rebel software companies out in the cold or they can join the fold.
It is all about the gravity of power and it is not my place to tell any organisation how best to increase mass.
Especially One I do not necessarily believe in (I do an awful lot of free consultancy work already thank you Spear) and anyway they have some OBE's over there that can figure it out.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Enjoyed your retro article SM. Very intersting that there was a big debate going on about arbers at the time - I guess that's one issue that has been settled .

FWIW I have never had an account at FL so was never burned there. I only entered this debate after reading about the dreadful case with the poor lady at Joyland. I just would like to see this industry put on a more sound footing as players are often in a weak position. I am however aware of the player abuse that goes on and would love to see all the botters and gnomes cleaned out.

But why do we need this eGOGRA? If we have a grievance why can't we go to a court of law just like we would over a faulty washing machine? If a casino takes money form a player in Germany for instance why shouldn't they be accountable in Germany? I can see how eCOGRA could be a first port of call but if they are the final arbiter it still leaves the player in a weak position. Most casinos are very fair but when that trust breaks down it seems there is little the player can do. We have to bear in mind the vast majority of players aren't even aware of this forum and so have very little protection if they have a problem.

 

[spearmaster]

So you can see that in this context I was making a statement about ecogras impotence when compared to another regulatory body such as FIFA and not on their ability to enforce vague recommendations.
For that reason I have no knowledge of any individual cases dealt with by ecogra because it is not relevant to the point I am amaking.

As I have pointed out before, eCOGRA have in at least one instance imposed sanctions on Jackpot Factory for what can only be construed as extremely poor judgement and misleading marketing. They are certainly not impotent. I'm sure there's plenty of documentation here at CM... but I'm just on my first coffee of the day now so please excuse me for not digging it up!

In the case of some Casinos wanting to join but not being able to because their software provider does not want to be part of ecogra, I would say this a good example of what I have talked about previously.
If these Casinos really see ecogra as an important move toward legitimacy they should make this clear to their software provider.
If this cuts no ice with them then change software provider at the first opportunity.
This will leave these rebel software companies out in the cold or they can join the fold.

Ideally, this would be nice. But it should be obvious that this won't happen - when people continue to play at rogue casinos, for example, the operators have no major rush to become accredited.

Sadly, that is the nature of the Internet - plenty of fish in the sea, so to speak.

Enjoyed your retro article SM. Very intersting that there was a big debate going on about arbers at the time - I guess that's one issue that has been settled .

Thanks... haha. Actually I had to laugh after reading that again for the first time in many years... there were more articles that I had written on bonus hunting as well but I just brought up the first example.

FWIW I have never had an account at FL so was never burned there. I only entered this debate after reading about the dreadful case with the poor lady at Joyland. I just would like to see this industry put on a more sound footing as players are often in a weak position. I am however aware of the player abuse that goes on and would love to see all the botters and gnomes cleaned out.

The Joyland case is a travesty. I'm sure we're all hopeful that this gets settled properly, and I certainly know where you're coming from here.

But again, not all software manufacturers or software operators are members of eCOGRA - this is one instance. But Casinomeister happens to be a very useful avenue for cases like this as well - so not everything is lost if the casino is not accredited by eCOGRA or some other organization.

Bots cannot cheat a casino however. As I have said elsewhere, if I opened a casino I would welcome bots - bring 'em on. There is a very simple way to deal with them - bonuses aren't allowed, and of course no multiple accounts. All this talk of "irregular play" irritates me to no end because even then the house has the same edge. The only thing that I would accept as irregular is offsetting bets - and even then the house has an edge, but I can understand where a casino is coming from in these cases.

But why do we need this eGOGRA? If we have a grievance why can't we go to a court of law just like we would over a faulty washing machine? If a casino takes money form a player in Germany for instance why shouldn't they be accountable in Germany?

Because this is the nature of the Net. Just because you live in a particular country doesn't mean you can only play at casinos located in that country. The Net is essentially borderless, so if you wanted to take action, you'd need to do so where the operator has a physical presence.

I can see how eCOGRA could be a first port of call but if they are the final arbiter it still leaves the player in a weak position. Most casinos are very fair but when that trust breaks down it seems there is little the player can do. We have to bear in mind the vast majority of players aren't even aware of this forum and so have very little protection if they have a problem.

See above. eCOGRA cannot be considered the final authority in many cases simply because the operation in question isn't a member. So many people come to Casinomeister as an alternative.

But you're right - the vast majority of players aren't aware of CM, or other forums or sites. There isn't much we can do about that.

The whole point is that eCOGRA strives to ensure that its members meet a high standard. Some members may try to fly close to the edge (not unlike a bonus hunter, I guess).

But eCOGRA is also dependent on community participation - for example, players filing for dispute resolutions, or reports from other sites or operators. Yes, it has its own resources for auditing and research, which as far as I know are heavily overloaded (but they've added more people now).

It's a two-way street. eCOGRA can continue to learn and grow and provide even better protection over time - but it has to have realistic objectives, just as players need to have a more objective understanding of what eCOGRA does.

If you or anyone else has any suggestions, please post them in this thread - I guarantee you that they will be seen here.

 

[Rusty]

Rusty;
In the case of some Casinos wanting to join but not being able to because their software provider does not want to be part of ecogra, I would say this a good example of what I have talked about previously.
If these Casinos really see ecogra as an important move toward legitimacy they should make this clear to their software provider.
If this cuts no ice with them then change software provider at the first opportunity.
This will leave these rebel software companies out in the cold or they can join the fold.

Spearmaster;
Ideally, this would be nice. But it should be obvious that this won't happen - when people continue to play at rogue casinos, for example, the operators have no major rush to become accredited.

Sadly, that is the nature of the Internet - plenty of fish in the sea, so to speak.

Yes I see your point but as I say if respectable casinos jump ship for a software provider that is a member of ecogra that would leave only rogue Casinos using the software, thats the start.
The more polarized the positions of the parties become the easier a distinction can be made and battle lines drawn.
Obviously affiliates would have to choose a side too if ecogra ruled that ecogra Casinos should not have affiliates that promoted any non ecogra Casinos.

I do see it is a problem that there are, as you say, plenty of fish in the sea for the rogues to net but Once the battle lines are clearly drawn and the difference between a regulated and non regulated casino made more obvious then education should become easier as well.

Education could be pushed vigorously by ecogra affiliates, software providers and Casinos as well as by ecogra themselves so that it is made very clear to anyone that plays at these Casinos they are well protected and if they play at a Casino without the ecogra seal they are not. The cosst would be nominal.
That way it only takes a person to visit 1 ecogra affiliate site, 1 ecogra Casino, 1 ecogra software providers site or just the ecogra site itself to be educated about where it is best to play. Push it!
Lets have a fancy ecogra logo greet us when we load a ecogra Casino
"This Casino is protected by ecogra"
before the Casino welcome kicks in and then push it some more.
Make people see what it is and why it is important.
ecogra just don't seem to understand it should be marketed like a wonder product.
Sell the damn thing, it is good for business.
Every Dollar that doesn't go to a rogue because of it will go to an ecogra casino, it is not rocket science.

 

[spearmaster]

Yes I see your point but as I say if respectable casinos jump ship for a software provider that is a member of ecogra that would leave only rogue Casinos using the software, thats the start.

On the flipside - these respectable casinos became respectable without eCOGRA. Why would they suddenly need eCOGRA now?

Obviously affiliates would have to choose a side too if ecogra ruled that ecogra Casinos should not have affiliates that promoted any non ecogra Casinos.

Can't/won't happen. Now you're asking for compliance from affiliates - which is 100% impossible...

Education could be pushed vigorously by ecogra affiliates, software providers and Casinos as well as by ecogra themselves so that it is made very clear to anyone that plays at these Casinos they are well protected and if they play at a Casino without the ecogra seal they are not. The cosst would be nominal.
That way it only takes a person to visit 1 ecogra affiliate site, 1 ecogra Casino, 1 ecogra software providers site or just the ecogra site itself to be educated about where it is best to play. Push it!
Lets have a fancy ecogra logo greet us when we load a ecogra Casino
"This Casino is protected by ecogra"
before the Casino welcome kicks in and then push it some more.
Make people see what it is and why it is important.
ecogra just don't seem to understand it should be marketed like a wonder product.
Sell the damn thing, it is good for business.
Every Dollar that doesn't go to a rogue because of it will go to an ecogra casino, it is not rocket science.

Easier said than done. This push has been done before and yet some players continue to feel that eCOGRA is nothing but a rubber-stamp organization.

But I do agree - and I already asked eCOGRA to consider doing another educational campaign earlier this year, and reiterated this again in my latest communication with them.

 

[GrandMaster]

As I have pointed out before, eCOGRA have in at least one instance imposed sanctions on Jackpot Factory for what can only be construed as extremely poor judgement and misleading marketing. They are certainly not impotent.

Ecogra dithered, and when the manager of JPF announced that all the offensive content had been removed, they took it at face value, without checking themselves.

While I obviously would support such an idea - marketing isn't just about an operator's website. Marketing should also cover all promotional emails, all affiliate marketing, all traditional broadcast, print and display media...

As you can see, this is absolutely impossible no matter how many resources they dedicate to this effort, so I would have to disagree with you.

eCOGRA cannot reasonably be expected to do the policing as well as setting the policy - this would be somewhat similar to a country's lawmakers playing police as well.

TGTR involves analysing millions of transactions daily. Auditing the marketing activities should be easy in comparison. Ecogra sets the policy and performs the TGTR

I think it should be pointed out that eCOGRA's primary role is to set the standards - and it most certainly expects its members to abide by these standards. It is obviously impractical to require eCOGRA to pre-approve any and all emails or marketing projects, and similarly they cannot monitor everything that is put out by all the casinos.

Ecogra does not approve individual random numbers or gambling transactions, just audits them.

The FU clause you are referring to doesn't give them a license to steal from players. It does give them the opportunity to protect themselves from being defrauded. If, however, they use that clause to refuse to pay winnings that were legitimately earned, then it is clear you should complain to eCOGRA.

I didn't say you have to trust the operation. However, this discussion is about eCOGRA - and not something that happened before they became members.

Got anything which happened afterwards? I'm sure eCOGRA will be glad to address the issue - but how in the world do you expect them to take any responsibility for what happened beforehand?

The typical use of the clause is to protect the casino from ill thought-out promotions. I would really like to hear of a case when a promotions manager was dismissed instead of the players being accused of "bonus abuse", "irregular play" and the like.

I think that casinos should be required to deal with all outstanding issues before they are ecogra certified. Would you have been happy if Joyland had been awarded the ecogra seal while owing millions to the jackpot winner?

 

[lots0]

The way I see this discussion is you have two sides talking at different issues.

Is Ecogra effective as a player advocate?
In my opinion, most of the time, especially when the players problem becomes public... So my answer would be... Yes.

Is Ecogra helpful to affiliates with problems with their member sites or to helping the reputation of the online gambling business in general...
In my Opinion... No way.

So what we have here in this discussion are Player advocates that are staunch supporters and friends of Ecogra.

Then you have the Webmaster Affiliates that are more than fed up with Ecogra and their support of casinos that practice some of the most unethical marketing practices on the web.

I personally don't think the two sides - Player Advocates and Affiliates are ever going to see eye to eye on this issue. Especially when personal friendships are involved with employees and management of Ecogra.

This push has been done before and yet some players continue to feel that eCOGRA is nothing but a rubber-stamp organization.

Of course they feel that way, no matter how many publicity 'pushes' Ecogra make.... and players will continue to feel that way until there is complete transparency within Ecogra, complete Independence from financial 'donations' from the casinos and a Ecogra attitude change that involves players becoming more 'important' than Ecogra's member casinos...

Disclosure: I put Ecogra on my sites blacklist quite some time ago, I listed them as 'Questionable' based on Affiliate issues.

 

[Rusty]

All that I wrote about promoting ecogra was based on the assumption that they had already implemented a tougher regime and higher standards along with perhaps some independent auditing etc, etc.
Basically an organisation that the players, affiliates and Casinos are happy with too.

On the flipside - these respectable casinos became respectable without eCOGRA. Why would they suddenly need eCOGRA now?

That is indeed the flipside in the sense you have reversed our positions on how effective and respected ecogra currently is.
I can not continually suggest policy or strategy for ecogra on these pages but I have alluded to the ways in which ecogra can gain more gravitas and in turn make itself an organisation that impacts positively on its members both in terms of credibility and profitability.
The basic startegy would be to first ensure their house was built of brick and not straw (again I have touched upon how other organisations work and our respected through their policy/regulation and policing of their members)-
Make a good home to raise a family unless you want disfunctional children.

Once the moral high ground has been taken you can not only promote yourself much more effectively but you can undermine the opposition at the same time, every negative for them is a positive for you.

As I say, it is the gravity of power and if you are the pulling force at the centre (you carry more mass(influence) than the bodies around you, they will naturally be drawn toward you and so your mass grows (influence increases).
You make it so that no respectable Casino can afford to be outside ecogra.
The will or vision to do this though does not appear to be there.

Can't/won't happen. Now you're asking for compliance from affiliates - which is 100% impossible...

This seems to be a similar cant/wont attitude adopted by ecogra which is why no progress is being made.

Casinos pay their affiliates right?
All ecogra Casinos are only promoted by affiliates that do not promote Casinos outside of ecogra.
These affiliates themsleves could be members of an ecogra approved affiliate list. (You could make incentives or benefits but essentially you make being an ecogra approved affiliate more beneficial and some of that would come naturally as ecogra gained in influence and standing)

You can adopt either or both of these approaches.
In the First approach;
If an ecogra casino affiliate is seen to promote a non ecogra casino then have it in your T&C's you need not pay them. That will assure 100% compliance trust me.
In the Second approach;
You could strike them off your list and ensure no ecogra Casinos use them, leave them only the rogues/rebels to promote (who you are already undermining or bringing into your fold)

I am just throwing these out there as I would in a brainstroming session but 100% compliance from affiliates is achievable just as 100% compliance from member Casinos is.
Carrot and stick.
Can/would.

 

[spearmaster]

Casinos pay their affiliates right?
All ecogra Casinos are only promoted by affiliates that do not promote Casinos outside of ecogra.
These affiliates themsleves could be members of an ecogra approved affiliate list. (You could make incentives or benefits but essentially you make being an ecogra approved affiliate more beneficial and some of that would come naturally as ecogra gained in influence and standing)

You can adopt either or both of these approaches.
In the First approach;
If an ecogra casino affiliate is seen to promote a non ecogra casino then have it in your T&C's you need not pay them. That will assure 100% compliance trust me.
In the Second approach;
You could strike them off your list and ensure no ecogra Casinos use them, leave them only the rogues/rebels to promote (who you are already undermining or bringing into your fold)

I am just throwing these out there as I would in a brainstroming session but 100% compliance from affiliates is achievable just as 100% compliance from member Casinos is.
Carrot and stick.
Can/would.

Bet365. All Wagerworks casinos. Intercasino. Inetbet, Rushmore and CWC.

Just examples, mind you. But I think an affiliate would feel hard done by if not allowed to promote some arguably stellar operations.

 

[Rusty]

Bet365. All Wagerworks casinos. Intercasino. Inetbet, Rushmore and CWC.

Just examples, mind you. But I think an affiliate would feel hard done by if not allowed to promote some arguably stellar operations.

I think I have already explained in general terms how these specific difficulties can be overcome or avoided completely.

If you are building an Empire you do not just confront every other country as an enemy, you make alliances with those you share common goals.
You expand your sphere of influence.
Does ecogra want to build an Empire or remain an Island concerned only with internal affairs?

If the above Casinos and their software providers were to see ecogra membership as mutually beneficial they would have no reason not to want to join.
There are endless political examples where analogies can be made because that is what it boils down to, politics. (politics/policies/policing)

 

[spearmaster]

Does ecogra want to build an Empire or remain an Island concerned only with internal affairs?

I'm sure you'll appreciate that building an Empire doesn't happen overnight. I can state with 100% certainty that eCOGRA has been actively talking to many of the different software suppliers over the years with a view to creating a unified community.

For whatever reasons - I'm sure there are many - this hasn't happened - not for lack of trying, mind you.

Anyhow, it's the weekend. I'm more concerned with Ronaldo scoring hat tricks in the next two games to keep my very slim chances of winning my fantasy league alive

 

[Rusty]

Bryan has done pretty well in creating his accredited list that is comprised of Casinos that use many different software but He wisely avoids recommending a particular software.

Obviously the largest sticking point regarding software suppliers is what constitutes a fair game and what does not, even ecogra in its current format seem bamboozled by that one.
Perhaps the testing of software just like the RNG's should remain outside ecogra and done by a single independent body sanctioned by ecogra and all the software suppliers.
They could all still have representation at ecogra.
Likewise with the auditing.
ecogra could then concentrate on regulation and enforcement, be more transparent and shake off some of the critisisms of conflict of interest.

It is a vast and complex issue but it really is achievable with the will and vision and of course incentive.

PS
I watched the Liverpool match, I think the Ref just got back from a refresher course in Norway.
Anyway no matter, we will crush City tomorrow...I hope.

 

[spearmaster]

I watched the Liverpool match, I think the Ref just got back from a refresher course in Norway.
Anyway no matter, we will crush City tomorrow...I hope.

LOL. Actually, I dozed off... but as I had Gerrard, things worked out well for me

Tomorrow will be a good game. If City are at their best, it will be a fight, they seem to play so poorly unless they're challenged...

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Must admit I am getting pretty confused by all this

I would have thought that beefing up the jurisdictions would be more effective than a self regulation (eCOGRA) approach.

I think that what happens in the USA will be highly influential in years to come. If they go for regulation and taxation then that may encourage a more regulatory approach.

What worries me as a player is that if a casino declines to pay you for whatever reason how do you get your money back? I have never found the answer to this simple question. The current setup has not served players like Sylvia well. It is all very well relying on trust, reputation and CM but it would be nice to have something more concrete. Maybe it will be eCOGRA?

I was beginning to be won over by Spearmaster's arguments but then I see he is a Red but has Gerrard as the fulcrum of his FF team? I would love to put you infront of Sir Alex and see what he would say! Hairdryer does not even cover it...

 

[spearmaster]

I would have thought that beefing up the jurisdictions would be more effective than a self regulation (eCOGRA) approach.

In an ideal world, this is exactly what I would like to see. However - some jurisdictions actually tried this and the standards were so rigid that they could not get anyone to locate there.

I think that what happens in the USA will be highly influential in years to come. If they go for regulation and taxation then that may encourage a more regulatory approach.

The industry has been trying to get this to happen for ages now. But those in power simply would not listen. Personally, as much as I would like to see this, I don't see it happening any time soon.

What worries me as a player is that if a casino declines to pay you for whatever reason how do you get your money back? I have never found the answer to this simple question. The current setup has not served players like Sylvia well. It is all very well relying on trust, reputation and CM but it would be nice to have something more concrete. Maybe it will be eCOGRA?

Well, for one thing, Joyland is not eCOGRA-accredited - nor is any Playtech-powered operation.

However, all is not lost. We are expecting to hear more on this issue soon and I hope that the news will be positive.

I was beginning to be won over by Spearmaster's arguments but then I see he is a Red but has Gerrard as the fulcrum of his FF team? I would love to put you infront of Sir Alex and see what he would say! Hairdryer does not even cover it...

Haha...

Actually, my fulcrum (captain) is Ronaldo The trouble is that FF only allows you to have a maximum of 3 players from any one team... thus we have to choose from the best of the rest if we can afford them... and Gerrard proved this quite nicely after I traded Lampard for him!

 

[Kenny Lingus]

The seriousness of this discussion is amusing to me.

The bottom line is that the casino industry is out to f**k us out of our money, all in the name of entertainment.

Some do it rather thugishly; those kind of operators end up in the Rogue Pit here.

Others try and act like they are beyond repute - but in the end, they don't care about anything else than taking as much money out of your hands as possible.

Oh sure, there are a few winners, there has to be; but that is just another part of the plan to suck you in and the contents of your wallet dry.

eCOGRA, and for that matter, Casinomeister, are good entities in the sense that they bring a little more fairness to the side of the player versus the casinos. But let's face it, these entities would not be around (at least not in any major sense) if not for the cash that was generated by this industry.

And the thought that there is any objective "fairness" for the player, either through an honest casino or industry watchdog, reminds of what the late and great George Carlin said about airport security:

"Its an illusion - its only there to make white people feel safe".