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Casino Complaint Dragonara Casino removed winnings!

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by gamer, Jan 8, 2014.

Tags:
    Jan 8, 2014
  1. gamer

    gamer Experienced Member PABnononaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    CEO
    Location:
    FInland
    Hi,

    First of all I would like to introduce a little bit myself (with bad english skills..).
    I'm working as an casinoaffiliate here in Finland and I'm searching for new casinos all the time. Last month I recognized Dragonara Casino and yesterday I thought to register and test their site, because their affiliate program will be ready soon.

    I read all their T&C about bonuses and general terms before registeration. After registeration I read more before decide to made deposit. While I played 50 € deposit plus 50 € bonus, I checked maximum bet size because I had very good balance atm. No problem, max 5 € bet is allowed always and only Canada+Greece is forbidden countries..

    1-2 hours later I met all wagering requirements and sent documents and made withdrawal 2 300 €. Few hours on this I sent new message to support, that how long it takes to check my documents and answer was this

    "Dear Mr. --------------,

    Thank you for contacting us.

    We apologize in the delay in responding to you however we had to check a few things with your account first.

    We have noticed that you somehow managed to trigger our welcome bonus offer. Due to internal marketing reasons we had removed Finland from all bonus offers as of 08:00 CET this morning the 7th Jan 2014. For some reason you were still able to trigger this bonus at 10:32 which should not have been possible. This is a clear technical issue and has been forwarded to our technical team to find out why this could have happened.

    Please be advised, that for this reason we have had to remove your welcome bonus and any winnings generated from it. We have left your original € 50 deposit on your Casino account for you. Should you wish to withdraw this, please request a withdrawal of the funds and we will process this as soon as possible.

    Your documents have been uploaded to your account.

    We apologize for the inconvenience caused by this issue.

    Please let us know a should you have any questions related to this or any other matter.

    Kind regards

    Dragonara Online Casino

    [Bonus & Promotions Team]"


    I sent few answers for them as they asked "Please let us know a should you have any questions related to this or any other matter."
    I kept my 50 € in my player account. Today I sent few more messages and now half hour ago they sent my 50 € back to Skrill and closed my player account. No any answers on my emails!

    Spreed the word!
     
  2. Jan 8, 2014
  3. bigjohn

    bigjohn Meister Member MM PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Swimming Pool Serviceman
    Location:
    Northeast Coastal USA
    Well, that sounds like a great way to start up an online casino. Not.

    Once you take a bonus and play it through, according to all the terms you are presented with when you claimed it, I think you should be paid.

    One has to wonder how many other Countries will be excluded when they present a somewhat substantial winner.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jan 8, 2014
  5. gamer

    gamer Experienced Member PABnononaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    CEO
    Location:
    FInland
    And if I may guess, also Finland will be back soon. Just playing me out..

    Well, I sent emails to LGA etc already. Also about +50 affiliate contact has been informed on this:thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jan 8, 2014
  7. onkel

    onkel Experienced Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Larnaca, Cyprus, Cyprus
    Just ridiculous behaviour by the casino. I wonder if they'd credit your deposit back had you lost :confused:

    Edit: No I don't, I know they wouldn't
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jan 8, 2014
  9. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    Yes it sounds very strange that a NetEnt casino should ban players from Finland to claim bonuses.

    Casinos in general tend to *love* players from Norway, Sweden and Finland.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jan 8, 2014
  11. onkel

    onkel Experienced Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Larnaca, Cyprus, Cyprus
    By the way, it sure looks like the exact same layout as Guts - I presume Dragonara is a whitelabel to them or vice versa?
     
  12. Jan 8, 2014
  13. CasinoBen

    CasinoBen Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Managing Director
    Location:
    Marbella
    Nothing to do with Guts

    Hi Everyone,

    Just wanted to clarify that Dragonara Casino has nothing at all to do with Guts, they simply took/borrowed/copied the design, of course without our consent. There is not much we can do about it unfortunately.

    Again, Dragonara is nothing at all to do with Guts Gaming, Guts is the only site we own.

    Sorry to hear about your experience Gamer.

    Cheers,

    Ben
     
    18 people like this.
  14. Jan 8, 2014
  15. onkel

    onkel Experienced Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Larnaca, Cyprus, Cyprus
    Well I guess that pretty much is in line with what they did to this player. Clearly run by unprofessional people.
     
  16. Jan 8, 2014
  17. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    If its a technical error as the casino claims tough luck to the casino. Furthermore, the Ts and Cs does not ban Finnish players from being granted bonuses if what the OP says is true.

    They claim they rescinded the bonus offer to Finnish players 2.5 hours prior to your claiming it. This is so coincidental. If they techies goofed up they pay the price not you.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Jan 8, 2014
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    So first a content thief, then a very convenient technical issue used to void winnings.

    The only "technical issue" I can see is that they had not actually IMPLEMENTED the bonus ban in their back end, so they can't put the blame on this.

    I suspect that an internal meeting reached a decision on the morning of the 7th January, but it took more than 3 hours for the minutes to be published, forwarded to the relevant management, and the technical team instructed to make the necessary alterations to the back end systems and the terms and conditions.

    I am sure they would not have made a fuss were the winnings modest, or the player had lost.

    If GUTS were to lodge a complaint with Bryan, the casino could end up in the pit for "content theft" from an accredited casino no less, even without the need to investigate this player complaint (which may well end up with them refusing to discuss the issue).

    Jackpots Heaven were quickly put in the pit for content theft, even though no player had come forward with a complaint via PAB. They had ripped off a bunch of games from leading software suppliers.

    NetEnt need to start vetting their licensees, there have been a number of complaints regarding rogue behaviour from some NetEnt operators, and this ends up damaging the reputations of the other casinos using the software.

    A simple test in a couple of weeks will determine whether there is any truth in their claim, or whether they have simply made this up in order to wriggle out of paying. I would expect such a critical technical error to have received an IMMEDIATE patch, with the website quickly updated to reflect the change.
     
    6 people like this.
  20. Jan 9, 2014
  21. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Spot on!
    NetEnt only need to take a good look at Playtech, RTG and Rival to see how just a few rotten apples can ruin the whole barrel. :(

    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Jan 9, 2014
  23. Wild Reels

    Wild Reels Meister Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    just tried to read their terms and it loads up a blank page, scarily it highlights their cms admin page You must register/login in order to see the link. :oops:

    any decent casino would have held their hands up if it was a valid "change to the terms" and honoured the winnings.
     
  24. Jan 9, 2014
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The terms have now been updated, with a note saying they were changed at 8:00 CET on the 7th January.

    So, they updated their policies internally, but until this is PUBLISHED, it has no standing. It looks like they only recently updated the website, and issued a false change date to back up their side of the story. They had obviously failed to update the back end so that it didn't trigger the bonus for disallowed countries.

    Unless the OP provided false registration details in order to fool the systems into triggering the bonus, the casino should suffer the consequences of getting their initial marketing wrong. Instead, they are making a veiled accusation that the player did something fraudulent in order to trigger the bonus.

    What, by making a deposit:rolleyes:

    If the terms only excluded Greece and Canada at the time, how would the player be expected to know that there had even been a technical glitch?

    Even worse, this is no clip joint, but the online arm of a "prestigious land casino in Malta".

    However, this is not the FIRST time the online arm of a Maltese land casino has screwed over one of it's customers, there was one earlier that went bust, but the online portal was still taking deposits from players, with the money then being non recoverable because the company had folded.

    Clearly, this was not an isolated case, it seems the online arms of Maltese land casinos in general need to be approached with caution, or maybe avoided altogether. If the land casino companies suffer adverse PR as a result, it's their own fault for getting involved in a field they clearly have little idea about in terms of winning the trust of the online player community.

    The site does look similar to GUTS, but probably not similar enough to be branded as intentional content theft. It looks more likely they have used a common template, adding a few variations of their own. This does look rather amateurish though, almost as bad as using a basic free hosting service.

    A well designed casino portal would seek to differentiate itself from the competition, not use a template that most of them share. It's not pure NetEnt either, it's one of those Oddsmatrix sites hosting games from a number of providers, and Oddsmatrix sites in general have generated complaints, and appear to know little about how to run a decent casino and win the trust of players. A bunch of white label "super affiliates" using a bog standard template, rather than a "proper" casino.

    Perhaps GUTS should seek to distance itself from the look and feel of this standard template, because no doubt other white label Oddsmatrix casinos will end up looking much like GUTS, confusing some players into believing they are connected.
     
    3 people like this.
  26. Jan 9, 2014
  27. Mouche12

    Mouche12 Kitty Lover PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Translator and facilities manager
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Guts gave its consent to Dragonara for using the same, or similar, content (according to Ben's post above), but yeah - Guts definitely does not want to be associated with this outfit - roguish behaviour! :mad:I would also PAB if I were the OP.
     
  28. Jan 9, 2014
  29. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Agreed.

    I always get concerned when a provider starts handing out licences like jelly beans.

    The more licensees, the less resources available to vet applicants, the more possibility that rogue operators slip through the cracks.

    Of course, the most unfortunately scenario would be that it's a deliberate policy change by Netent to get "bums on seats" as it were a la RTG. I would be bitterly disappointed if Netent have lowered their standards just to increase market share.

    Don't get me started on Rival. My favorite slots of all time (bar the recent shite) and I can't play them (my own choice). I reckon if they gave a group of us "old timers" and other interested members the reins of Rival for a year they would be faring a WHOLE lot better.
     
    4 people like this.
  30. Jan 9, 2014
  31. gamer

    gamer Experienced Member PABnononaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    CEO
    Location:
    FInland
    Good morning,

    My very good friend helped me with this and something will be happen on next few days, maybe even today:thumbsup:
    Now I know little bit more, but can't talk about it yet. I'm waiting what will be happen first. They didn't answered my emails, but my friend got very good (and ridiculous...) answers.

    The "strange" way how I triggered bonus was normal bonus selection when making deposit. Just like in Guts, Casinoluck, Next Casino etc.
    I played only NetEnt slots, maximum bet size 4,50 €. There is max bet rule 5,00 € and Scrooge+Devil's Delight doesn't count wagering requirements. My documents was okay and it was my very first account with real details. I know how to behave.

    I've watched a lot of movies where the casino's security guards beat upon unwanted players in the basement. Maybe they thought to come to the internet by the same rules?:oops:
    ;)
     
  32. Jan 9, 2014
  33. CasinoBen

    CasinoBen Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Managing Director
    Location:
    Marbella
    We DID NOT give consent to Dragonara to use our design, we would never to that. I don't think that we need to PAB, there is nothing to gain from that from a Guts perspective. I just want it to be very clear that Dragonara is nothing to do with Guts, we did not give consent for them to use our design or colours.

    @VWM, the Guts design is not a template. We took months and months to design the site, using input from experts on design and development including my vast years of experience. We will not change the design of Guts to differentiate ourselves from some people that were too unoriginal to come up with their own concept.

    Have a great day everyone!!!

    Ben
     
    9 people like this.
  34. Jan 9, 2014
  35. Blathaon

    Blathaon Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Norway
    I think she meant that the OP (gamer) should PAB if he doesn't get his winnings, not Guts.

    Seeing as Dragonara is also using Oddsmatrix/Everymatrix, i find it odd that they would steal from you. Do you not have any leverage through Everymatrix with regards to this issue?
     
    2 people like this.
  36. Jan 9, 2014
  37. CasinoBen

    CasinoBen Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Managing Director
    Location:
    Marbella
    Sometimes I should wait until I have had my 2nd cup of coffee before making my first post of the day.

    Sorry, saw OP and automatically thought "operator".

    We found it odd too and no, it seems that EveryMatrix will not help us on this one....

    The whole thing kind of bewilders me. With the industry being so competitive it seems that you need to offer something that stands out from the rest, but launching a new casino with a design similar to another casino really starts you off on the wrong foot. It is the same as what we have seen in the past with new casinos using the similar name to established casinos, why do it?

    Oh well, life goes on :).

    Cheers,

    Ben
     
    2 people like this.
  38. Jan 9, 2014
  39. maphesto

    maphesto Dormant account

    Location:
    Sweden
    Please Ben,get your own license now. If I'm not mistaken, you are working with the same license as the ones who steals from you? Am I wrong?
     

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