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Double or not playing VP???

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by SlotMonster, Aug 10, 2007.

    Aug 10, 2007
  1. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster SoftSwiss Representative webmeister

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Somewhere in eternity
    I played VP (All Aces) few times. And I used "Double" game,
    There is 5 cards showed to player. One card is open and if player pick up card better than was open - he will double. If not - he will lost his winnings.
    But why on earth sometimes first card - the greatest card from these 5 cards??? If it happends - player cannot win in any case! It's unfair practice not giving player even insignificant chance to win (or at leat save his winnings picking up the same card as was open - King vs. King, for example)!

    Opinions?
     
  2. Aug 10, 2007
  3. tencardcharlie

    tencardcharlie Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bureaucrat
    Location:
    The playboy mansion.
    What casino had this crazy rules? King vs. King should be a tie! (and ace beats king)
     
  4. Aug 10, 2007
  5. thetic

    thetic Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    Scotland
    1. Agree with point on tie losing being unheard of (but this is not what you were saying though if I read it correctly!)

    2. Don't agree with your comment on it being unfair when 1st card is highest. If truly random this will sometimes be the case. By the same token you will have times when the 1st card is the lowest and you can not lose whatever you pick...
     
  6. Aug 10, 2007
  7. ergopro

    ergopro Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Gamblers Anonymous
    Unless you're ready to double only the big hits, there's no use doing it IMHO...it's not profitable in the long run...
    I thought it was told in one thread that at least in micro casinos, it doesn't matter which card you pick- it's being predetermined at the moment you hit the double button either you win, tie or lose.
     
  8. Aug 10, 2007
  9. SlotsWizard

    SlotsWizard Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    I currently work for the Wizard of Odds
    Location:
    North of Antarctica
    With MG it is predetermined, which is somewhat unfortunate but it probably doesn't affect as much as we'd like to think.

    Mathematically everything works out 50/50, even though the dealer's card might be a King and the player choices are 2, 3, 4, 5. But I 100% agree that they could do a much better job of presenting it - since it's predetermined anyway, why not at least pretend that the player had a chance by sticking an Ace under one of the 3 cards that were not selected?

    The good news is that there was nothing you could have done. The bad news is that you will never have control over it. It's a virtual coin toss and the outcome is decided before you even see the up-card on your screen.

    Personally, I disable the double feature in every game that I can, but sometimes, especially if my balance is low, I will turn it back on and try to double even-money wins on single-hand VP, or wins less than my original bet in multi-hand VP.
     
  10. Aug 10, 2007
  11. liquuid_fusion

    liquuid_fusion Meister Member PABnorogue PABnononaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    UK
    Remember that a VP double has true 50/50 odds, it has no house edge. It's probably the best bet in the casino.
     
  12. Aug 10, 2007
  13. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster SoftSwiss Representative webmeister

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Somewhere in eternity
    I mean when tie - players saves his winnings! Sorry for misunderstanding :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2007
  14. Aug 10, 2007
  15. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster SoftSwiss Representative webmeister

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Somewhere in eternity
    All bets we place in casino have true 50/50 odds - win or loose :rolleyes:
     
  16. Aug 10, 2007
  17. Christoff

    Christoff Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Media Auditor
    Location:
    Spain
    I love the double feature on VP - sometimes double it up 3 or 4 times.

    You have to be prepared to lose though!
     
  18. Aug 10, 2007
  19. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    Is it definitely pre-determined? How do we know this? I'm not saying I'm surprised or that it's wrong - but how do we know?
     
  20. Aug 10, 2007
  21. 1819

    1819 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired athlete
    Location:
    ny,nj,fla
    i remember with mg you could move your curser over your balance and it would change before you picked your card. so you knew if you won or lost.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Aug 10, 2007
  23. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    Ha ha... Cheers! And oops!
     
  24. Aug 10, 2007
  25. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    I can also add that the bonus picking game for Enchanted Unicorn on WagerWorks software also is predetermined. It is deceptive and waste of time to have players pick carefully and then blame themself.

    So it goes much further than just MG VP doubling it seems.

    You can test this by cutting network connection during a game or closing browser right after losing. You can go through the steps again and no matter what you pick, you will get the same symbols over and over. It is predetermined that you are picking the ghost at line 4 etc.

    A simple explanation is that is complicated to store the state of a bonus game in the database in case of player losing connection. It is much easier just to generate the results and save them, and then you also do not have to remember if the player already have picked at level 2 etc. (Ie. lazy programmers)

    Zoozie
     
  26. Aug 12, 2007
  27. refre

    refre Senior lurker PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Professional slot player
    Location:
    .
    I once read (don't remember where) that "professional" VP players recommend the use of the double up feature (when its 50-50). It will raise the estimated return for those playing 0.99x % payback games.

    The professionals, at land based casinos at least, often get over 100 % return playing VP, when adding the comps/cashback. Double up doesnt count toward comps, so doubling will actually lower payback for some players.

    Don't know of any online casino which offers comps high enough to get even money (or more) for your play though.
     
  28. Aug 12, 2007
  29. EasyRhino

    EasyRhino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Analyst
    Location:
    San Diego
    If you're lucky enough to be playing one of the few VP games with greater than 100% payout, then the doubleup game would be a waste of time.

    If you're playing for comps, and you get comped on the double up feature (probably worth checking), then go for it.

    But if you don't get comped on it, then you're really just spinning your wheels on a 50/50 game. It's a low-edge way to get your gamble on if you're in it for the action, but if you're playing for comps or soemthing, and not getting comped on it, then it's just increasing variance in your bankroll for no particular reason.
     
  30. Aug 12, 2007
  31. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I don't play much VP (just can't get into it), but...
    I do not like that idea!
    If there was an ace shown every every time it would look like it was rigged - which it would be!
    I would much rather believe it's truly 100% random - even if it isn't! :p

    That is a very worrying comment!
    You're saying all casino games have a 100% return...? :eek:

    BTW on the rare occasions I do play VP, I always try to double up if my win is less than about 75% of my stake (multi-hand, obviously), and I am quite happy that I am getting a genuine 50/50 chance (at Crypto & MG at least).
    :thumbsup:
     
  32. Aug 13, 2007
  33. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster SoftSwiss Representative webmeister

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
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    No, I'm just trying to say that we have only two expected results when placing bets: we win (50% probability) or we lose (another 50%) :p
     
  34. Aug 14, 2007
  35. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    I offer you a deal. You spin the roulette wheel. If the ball lands on 0, I pay you $100, otherwise you pay me $100. Since it's 50/50, it is a fair deal.
     
  36. Aug 14, 2007
  37. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster SoftSwiss Representative webmeister

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Somewhere in eternity
    First of all, it's not a fair deal. You should to pay me 3600$ (not 100$) if the ball lands on 0 cause it's probability = 1/37, and otherwise I pay you 100$, it's probability = 36/37. And only in this case I will play with you! :cool:
    Study the math to investigate chances :)
     

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